The Energon Pub

Chaoslock wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: when you are running for our life, under feqar of execution, then you may not care who gets in your way

But how does that excuse him from picking up cars and throwing them? And thats just the point... He didn't care. If your inocent, your not going to go out of your way to harm others that are innocent as well. If bad guys are chasing me and i know i'm a good hearted person, then i'm not going to run people over, step on peolpe, knock them over a flight of stairs just to get away. cause

1- Thats not what an innocent person does..
2- thats not what a good natured person does.

That is what seperates the good from the bad. even in times of danger, you still put others in front of yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf1bx37lh_M

Whats your point?

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: when you are running for our life, under feqar of execution, then you may not care who gets in your way

But how does that excuse him from picking up cars and throwing them? And thats just the point... He didn't care. If your inocent, your not going to go out of your way to harm others that are innocent as well. If bad guys are chasing me and i know i'm a good hearted person, then i'm not going to run people over, step on peolpe, knock them over a flight of stairs just to get away. cause

1- Thats not what an innocent person does..
2- thats not what a good natured person does.

That is what seperates the good from the bad. even in times of danger, you still put others in front of yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf1bx37lh_M

Whats your point?

i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

anyway i never argued that dev's was innocent or good natured, he was threatened, when threatened the laws of morality are blurred for some, particularly those that arent good natured or innocent.

The bots should have realised this before attacking him in a densely populated area putting thousands of innocent lives at risk

And anyway again, and to repeat myself again, my main issue is the execution once the threat has been neutralised. devastator is down, weak and no danger. So prime either killed him because of revenge for the deaths that prime is partially responsible for, revenge is not a trait associated with heroes usually, or autobot policy is termination of all decepticons

shamone wrote:

Iamwarhorse wrote:

shamone wrote:


taking prisoners is more difficult i agree, but thats what seperates the good from the bad, mercy.

You think taking prisoners is what separates the good from the bad?

I assume you dont

which would suggest you believe the following are moral

- extra judiciary executions
- shooting a wounded and incapicated foe in the face
- ignoring the geneva convention
- entering a sovereign state, surrounding and breaking into someones home and shooting them in the face

Who gives a damn about morals!? When you go to war, you keep your freaking morals in your pocket.

when you become like your enemy what are you fighting for anymore

You're fighting to make sure that none of your enemies live. That's what you fight for. To make sure they never see the light of day again...or the dark of night.

shamone wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: when you are running for our life, under feqar of execution, then you may not care who gets in your way

But how does that excuse him from picking up cars and throwing them? And thats just the point... He didn't care. If your inocent, your not going to go out of your way to harm others that are innocent as well. If bad guys are chasing me and i know i'm a good hearted person, then i'm not going to run people over, step on peolpe, knock them over a flight of stairs just to get away. cause

1- Thats not what an innocent person does..
2- thats not what a good natured person does.

That is what seperates the good from the bad. even in times of danger, you still put others in front of yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf1bx37lh_M

Whats your point?

i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

anyway i never argued that dev's was innocent or good natured, he was threatened, when threatened the laws of morality are blurred for some, particularly those that arent good natured or innocent.

The bots should have realised this before attacking him in a densely populated area putting thousands of innocent lives at risk

And anyway again, and to repeat myself again, my main issue is the execution once the threat has been neutralised. devastator is down, weak and no danger. So prime either killed him because of revenge for the deaths that prime is partially responsible for, revenge is not a trait associated with heroes usually, or autobot policy is termination of all decepticons

Oh, yes! Usually. You're going based off of what society says is a hero, I should have known! That explains everything! Because they're not your usual, steryotypical, "with great power comes great responsibility", life sparing heroes, they're not heroes at all.

The Autobots never claimed to be heroes. They're fighting a war, and part of their side is fighting to save a world that is undeserving of The Fallen's wrath. The Decepticons could be viewed as heroes too. They want to purge the universe of useless, sinful organisms, and to bring peace to Cybertron; that's heroism in some people's eyes, but since they're not steriotypical, I guess that makes them not heroes. Just because they're not PERFECT means they are bad people; because that makes sense.

I for one, applaud both the Decepticon's and the Autobot's motives. They're both reasonable reasons to fight.

SlyTF1 wrote:

shamone wrote:

Iamwarhorse wrote:

shamone wrote:


taking prisoners is more difficult i agree, but thats what seperates the good from the bad, mercy.

You think taking prisoners is what separates the good from the bad?

I assume you dont

which would suggest you believe the following are moral

- extra judiciary executions
- shooting a wounded and incapicated foe in the face
- ignoring the geneva convention
- entering a sovereign state, surrounding and breaking into someones home and shooting them in the face

Who gives a damn about morals!? When you go to war, you keep your freaking morals in your pocket.

when you become like your enemy what are you fighting for anymore

You're fighting to make sure that none of your enemies live. That's what you fight for. To make sure they never see the light of day again...or the dark of night.

I see you read G W Bush's the art of war

unfortunately when you leave your morals in your back pocket, you get the likes of abu gharib.

War does not equal abandonment of moprality and decency, if you fight to preserve your way of life, then how can you then abandon it when it suits.

The geneva convention was created to deal with people who thought like you

SlyTF1 wrote:Oh, yes! Usually. You're going based off of what society says is a hero, I should have known! That explains everything! Because they're not your usual, steryotypical, "with great power comes great responsibility", life sparing heroes, they're not heroes at all.

The Autobots never claimed to be heroes. They're fighting a war, and part of their side is fighting to save a world that is undeserving of The Fallen's wrath. The Decepticons could be viewed as heroes too. They want to purge the universe of useless, sinful organisms, and to bring peace to Cybertron; that's heroism in some people's eyes, but since they're not steriotypical, I guess that makes them not heroes. Just because they're not PERFECT means they are bad people; because that makes sense.

I for one, applaud both the Decepticon's and the Autobot's motives. They're both reasonable reasons to fight.

Transformers is a kids movie with a simple code, heroic autobots, evil decepticaons. The autobots have always been heroes ine very incarnation, there is no real disputing that. There actions in executing the disabled is not the act of heroes.

SlyTF1 wrote:Oh, yes! Usually. You're going based off of what society says is a hero, I should have known! That explains everything! Because they're not your usual, steryotypical, "with great power comes great responsibility", life sparing heroes, they're not heroes at all.

The Autobots never claimed to be heroes. They're fighting a war, and part of their side is fighting to save a world that is undeserving of The Fallen's wrath. The Decepticons could be viewed as heroes too. They want to purge the universe of useless, sinful organisms, and to bring peace to Cybertron; that's heroism in some people's eyes, but since they're not steriotypical, I guess that makes them not heroes. Just because they're not PERFECT means they are bad people; because that makes sense.

I for one, applaud both the Decepticon's and the Autobot's motives. They're both reasonable reasons to fight.

I'm not entirely sure that most of this is applicable. The Autobots don't have to help old ladies cross streets in order to be seen as heros, but executing what amounts to be war prisoners does violate the Geneva Convention. I don't think anyone's claiming that they must be perfect in order to be heroes, but that people disagree over 'heroes' excuting captives or enemys. Its not that they killed Demolisher so much as they killed a disabled combatant.

I've always sided with the Decepticons, even ideologically at times. I don't get my morality lessons from kiddie shows and movies, but it's generally accepted that the Autobots have been the good guys for almost 30 years. Perfect does not equal heroic regardless.

Demolishor was still a danger to the soldiers with the Autobots. He was huge and even if all he could do was move a finger he could kill someone. The only way to neutralize a threat like that is to put it down.

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. Personally i don't see that as being the same. In this situation, scaring a flock of birds to crash into your enemy isn't the same as throwing and running over cars as you run away. In the case of the birds, it was that or be killed.(uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ). IN the case of demolisher, their was no good reason to run over cars, as well as randomly throwing them as you pass by.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. BUt i don't see that as being the same. Birds and human life isn't the same. (uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ).

It's ironic. The PETA became my new grudge today. And the best part is is that I live less than an hour from their headquarters!

I hate those guys.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. Personally i don't see that as being the same. In this situation, scaring a flock of birds to crash into your enemy isn't the same as throwing and running over cars as you run away. In the case of the birds, it was that or be killed.(uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ). IN the case of demolisher, their was no good reason to run over cars, as well as randomly throwing them as you pass by.

I think you miss the point. Indys dad saw the birds as expendable in order to save his life. Demolisher may look at humans the same way as indy's dad (and the way you do as suggested above) as inferior organisms who he is willing to sacrifice for his survival. if they get in his way they are expendable, no big deal, humans are as worthless as a flock of seagulls (obscures eighties reference) are to indys dad

SlyTF1 wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. BUt i don't see that as being the same. Birds and human life isn't the same. (uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ).

It's ironic. The PETA became my new grudge today. And the best part is is that I live less than an hour from their headquarters!

I hate those guys.

yeah damn those guys who think animals deserve a modicum of dignity in life.

Why is it good you live close to them

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. BUt i don't see that as being the same. Birds and human life isn't the same. (uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ).

It's ironic. The PETA became my new grudge today. And the best part is is that I live less than an hour from their headquarters!

I hate those guys.

yeah damn those guys who think animals deserve a modicum of dignity in life.

Why is it good you live close to them

Exactly! I hate them. Do you know how many plants they kill? Souless bastards! Plus they're against eating meat. And I like meat. Animals where invented for us to eat, and they're dirupting the balance of nature. Plus they find stray pets and kill them. They say it "ends their suffering".

SlyTF1 wrote:

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. BUt i don't see that as being the same. Birds and human life isn't the same. (uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ).

It's ironic. The PETA became my new grudge today. And the best part is is that I live less than an hour from their headquarters!

I hate those guys.

yeah damn those guys who think animals deserve a modicum of dignity in life.

Why is it good you live close to them

Exactly! I hate them. Do you know how many plants they kill? Souless bastards! Plus they're against eating meat. And I like meat. Animals where invented for us to eat, and they're dirupting the balance of nature. Plus they find stray pets and kill them. They say it "ends their suffering".

obvious troll is obvious

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. BUt i don't see that as being the same. Birds and human life isn't the same. (uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ).

It's ironic. The PETA became my new grudge today. And the best part is is that I live less than an hour from their headquarters!

I hate those guys.

yeah damn those guys who think animals deserve a modicum of dignity in life.

Why is it good you live close to them

Exactly! I hate them. Do you know how many plants they kill? Souless bastards! Plus they're against eating meat. And I like meat. Animals where invented for us to eat, and they're dirupting the balance of nature. Plus they find stray pets and kill them. They say it "ends their suffering".

obvious troll is obvious

Yeah, because I'm trolling (sarcasm.) I'm done. I'm just done.

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. BUt i don't see that as being the same. Birds and human life isn't the same. (uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ).

It's ironic. The PETA became my new grudge today. And the best part is is that I live less than an hour from their headquarters!

I hate those guys.

yeah damn those guys who think animals deserve a modicum of dignity in life.

Why is it good you live close to them

Exactly! I hate them. Do you know how many plants they kill? Souless bastards! Plus they're against eating meat. And I like meat. Animals where invented for us to eat, and they're dirupting the balance of nature. Plus they find stray pets and kill them. They say it "ends their suffering".

obvious troll is obvious

I'm a vegetarian and even I think PETA are a bunch of wackos.

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

shamone wrote:

Iamwarhorse wrote:

shamone wrote:


taking prisoners is more difficult i agree, but thats what seperates the good from the bad, mercy.

You think taking prisoners is what separates the good from the bad?

I assume you dont

which would suggest you believe the following are moral

- extra judiciary executions
- shooting a wounded and incapicated foe in the face
- ignoring the geneva convention
- entering a sovereign state, surrounding and breaking into someones home and shooting them in the face

Who gives a damn about morals!? When you go to war, you keep your freaking morals in your pocket.

when you become like your enemy what are you fighting for anymore

You're fighting to make sure that none of your enemies live. That's what you fight for. To make sure they never see the light of day again...or the dark of night.

I see you read G W Bush's the art of war

unfortunately when you leave your morals in your back pocket, you get the likes of abu gharib.

War does not equal abandonment of moprality and decency, if you fight to preserve your way of life, then how can you then abandon it when it suits.

The geneva convention was created to deal with people who thought like you

And thanks for proving my point. Taking prisoners does not make one "good".

After reading some of the comic books and novels based on the movies, the Autobots did have it set up for the Decepticons to come to them for alliance, no harm done. But if they didn't, well, they were going have to pop a cap in yo ass!:D Like I said, they lived in a world of kill or be killed, and so do we as humans.

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. BUt i don't see that as being the same. Birds and human life isn't the same. (uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ).

It's ironic. The PETA became my new grudge today. And the best part is is that I live less than an hour from their headquarters!

I hate those guys.

yeah damn those guys who think animals deserve a modicum of dignity in life.

Why is it good you live close to them

shamone, I'm just gonna rename you Captain PC. Just thought I'd let you know that.

For the record PETA commits more crimes against animals than it solves, or did you forget about the incidents with the industrial freezers.

Capt.Failure wrote:

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. BUt i don't see that as being the same. Birds and human life isn't the same. (uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ).

It's ironic. The PETA became my new grudge today. And the best part is is that I live less than an hour from their headquarters!

I hate those guys.

yeah damn those guys who think animals deserve a modicum of dignity in life.

Why is it good you live close to them

shamone, I'm just gonna rename you Captain PC. Just thought I'd let you know that.

For the record PETA commits more crimes against animals than it solves, or did you forget about the incidents with the industrial freezers.

Exactly. Plus, they want to take away my meat. No one does that and lives to do it again. I shall have revenge PETA!

SlyTF1 wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. BUt i don't see that as being the same. Birds and human life isn't the same. (uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ).

It's ironic. The PETA became my new grudge today. And the best part is is that I live less than an hour from their headquarters!

I hate those guys.

yeah damn those guys who think animals deserve a modicum of dignity in life.

Why is it good you live close to them

shamone, I'm just gonna rename you Captain PC. Just thought I'd let you know that.

For the record PETA commits more crimes against animals than it solves, or did you forget about the incidents with the industrial freezers.

Exactly. Plus, they want to take away my meat. No one does that and lives to do it again. I shall have revenge PETA!

By eating them? I admit that would be ironic.

Capt.Failure wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. BUt i don't see that as being the same. Birds and human life isn't the same. (uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ).

It's ironic. The PETA became my new grudge today. And the best part is is that I live less than an hour from their headquarters!

I hate those guys.

yeah damn those guys who think animals deserve a modicum of dignity in life.

Why is it good you live close to them

shamone, I'm just gonna rename you Captain PC. Just thought I'd let you know that.

For the record PETA commits more crimes against animals than it solves, or did you forget about the incidents with the industrial freezers.

Exactly. Plus, they want to take away my meat. No one does that and lives to do it again. I shall have revenge PETA!

By eating them? I admit that would be ironic.

At first, I was just gonna kill a bunch of pigs, then lay their heads in front of their doorstep...but that's an even better plan!

Before the movie even came out, before we even saw designs of the transformers.
I'm not a michael bay fan. I thought The Island was one of the worst movies ever, then I hear, the director of that is directing transformers.

My opinion keeps changing.
Loved the first movie.
Hated the second.
Jury is out on the third.

Iamwarhorse wrote:

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

shamone wrote:

Iamwarhorse wrote:

shamone wrote:


taking prisoners is more difficult i agree, but thats what seperates the good from the bad, mercy.

You think taking prisoners is what separates the good from the bad?

I assume you dont

which would suggest you believe the following are moral

- extra judiciary executions
- shooting a wounded and incapicated foe in the face
- ignoring the geneva convention
- entering a sovereign state, surrounding and breaking into someones home and shooting them in the face

Who gives a damn about morals!? When you go to war, you keep your freaking morals in your pocket.

when you become like your enemy what are you fighting for anymore

You're fighting to make sure that none of your enemies live. That's what you fight for. To make sure they never see the light of day again...or the dark of night.

I see you read G W Bush's the art of war

unfortunately when you leave your morals in your back pocket, you get the likes of abu gharib.

War does not equal abandonment of moprality and decency, if you fight to preserve your way of life, then how can you then abandon it when it suits.

The geneva convention was created to deal with people who thought like you

And thanks for proving my point. Taking prisoners does not make one "good".

After reading some of the comic books and novels based on the movies, the Autobots did have it set up for the Decepticons to come to them for alliance, no harm done. But if they didn't, well, they were going have to pop a cap in yo ass!:D Like I said, they lived in a world of kill or be killed, and so do we as humans.

I am sorry, I may be missing somethign here, but how did i prove your point that taking prisoners doesnt make one good. im lost !


I can only comment on the movie as source material, loiike many i have not read the books or comics so they mean nothing to me.

Capt.Failure wrote:

shamone wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: i assume that connery sacrificed innocent birds for his own survival.

I had a feeling that was going to be his argument. BUt i don't see that as being the same. Birds and human life isn't the same. (uhh-ohh. Here comes PETA after me ).

It's ironic. The PETA became my new grudge today. And the best part is is that I live less than an hour from their headquarters!

I hate those guys.

yeah damn those guys who think animals deserve a modicum of dignity in life.

Why is it good you live close to them

shamone, I'm just gonna rename you Captain PC. Just thought I'd let you know that.

For the record PETA commits more crimes against animals than it solves, or did you forget about the incidents with the industrial freezers.

Concern about animal welfare = political correctness. Need to get your dictionary oput again CF


Dont really care about PETA, but by saying for the record, you are stating that as fact. Do you have hard evidence of that, or is it more hyperbole. or are you suggesting that their actions turn people against the animal rights movement as turn people on to it, which again would need to be verified.


my comment on trolling was more to do with this line

"Animals where invented for us to eat,". Thats either trolling or mental retardation, i went for the less offensive option