The Energon Pub

Good. Hasbro has seen reason. I can totally see why they'd ban 3rd party stuff and KOs, but banning fan artists just hurts fans and Hasbro's rep, regardless of whether or not they're legally okay in doing so.

Of course I think a;; this last minute rule changing might have poisoned their reputation already, but it's nice that they listened to the massive outcry over this.

It was only a matter of time before Hasbro and Takara lashed back at unlicensed products. There was a time when third party was innocent. A limited little add on for a figure her and there, but it has become exceedingly mainstream, and infringing in recent years.

Sure, they took it a step too far banning the sale and commissioning of fan made Transformers art, but they realized that and that is why they backed down.

AutobotCliffjumper wrote:lol....shooting themselves in the foot much?! They've put their foot in the s**t and realizes that they don't like the f****n' smell. Done with Botcon.

Beericade wrote:Day late and a dollar short. I've already made my decision about Botcon. There are too many others out there that are NOT being arsehats.

joevill wrote:Hasbro has become Nazis

Babies. You guys are nothing but babies. If anything this should prove that Hasbro does listen. But i guess its just easier to keep the hate going than to just attend the convention and enjoy yourself. (something tells me thoses that are saying "**** botcon and Hasbro!" will be the first in line to get in.)

5150 Cruiser wrote: Babies. You guys are nothing but babies. If anything this should prove that Hasbro does listen. But i guess its just easier to keep the hate going than to just attend the convention and enjoy yourself. (something tells me thoses that are saying **** botcon and Hasbro!" will be the first in line to get in.)

Nope. Won't see me in line in front or out back. The fans in my household have decided to spend our money at Cons that actually don't ostracize a good portion of the fan base. If Hasbro really listened to the fans as you implied they would have done something regarding the FunPub matter. Instead, they washed their hands and passed the buck. If they had their ears open they would at least attempt to recognize their adult fans and customers and do what the third party guys offer. But, no, they instead throw a temper tantrum because what they had to offer was shown up last year at their own Con. Sorry, but I don't do stockholders meetings disguised as a Con. A fan base shouldn't be relegated to slinking in the back shadows to get the things Hasbro and Takara can't pull off.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

AutobotCliffjumper wrote:lol....shooting themselves in the foot much?! They've put their foot in the s**t and realizes that they don't like the f****n' smell. Done with Botcon.

Beericade wrote:Day late and a dollar short. I've already made my decision about Botcon. There are too many others out there that are NOT being arsehats.

joevill wrote:Hasbro has become Nazis

Babies. You guys are nothing but babies. If anything this should prove that Hasbro does listen. But i guess its just easier to keep the hate going than to just attend the convention and enjoy yourself. (something tells me thoses that are saying **** botcon and Hasbro!" will be the first in line to get in.)

Did it ever occur to you that the 3 guys youre quoting dont care about fan art ??? This minor "change of heart" on fan art is nothing but a PR stunt. The fans want no bans at all, not republican style flip flopping.

Beericade wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote: Babies. You guys are nothing but babies. If anything this should prove that Hasbro does listen. But i guess its just easier to keep the hate going than to just attend the convention and enjoy yourself. (something tells me thoses that are saying **** botcon and Hasbro!" will be the first in line to get in.)

Nope. Won't see me in line in front or out back. The fans in my household have decided to spend our money at Cons that actually don't ostracize a good portion of the fan base. If Hasbro really listened to the fans as you implied they would have done something regarding the FunPub matter. Instead, they washed their hands and passed the buck. If they had their ears open they would at least attempt to recognize their adult fans and customers and do what the third party guys offer. But, no, they instead throw a temper tantrum because what they had to offer was shown up last year at their own Con. Sorry, but I don't do stockholders meetings disguised as a Con. A fan base shouldn't be relegated to slinking in the back shadows to get the things Hasbro and Takara can't pull off.

I some how don't think these bans or not-bans will affect too many under 10 year olds.

Oh wait ... you're one of those who think Transformers is more of an adult thing. My bad.

Beericade wrote: If they had their ears open they would at least attempt to recognize their adult fans and customers and do what the third party guys offer. But, no, they instead throw a temper tantrum because what they had to offer was shown up last year at their own Con. Sorry, but I don't do stockholders meetings disguised as a Con. A fan base shouldn't be relegated to slinking in the back shadows to get the things Hasbro and Takara can't pull off.

So because they don't offer the same things 3rd party compaines offer they don't care about adult fans? That damn Hasbro. Only caring about making toys for the kids!

But one thing i will give you credit. If you truly aren't happy with what hasbro is doing and will not be parcicipating, then good for you. I'm not one to protest, but if you do believe in something then stand by it.

Rated X wrote:
Did it ever occur to you that the 3 guys youre quoting dont care about fan art ??? This minor "change of heart" on fan art is nothing but a PR stunt. The fans want no bans at all, not republican style flip flopping.

Doesn't matter wheather they care about fan art or not. There pissed becasue there was a ban, but part of that ban is being lifted and they still want to cry like babies. NO, 100% of the bans may not have been lifted, (i still think Hasbro was in the right with their orignal decision) but at least they were listening. But to them Hasbro will always just be the big bad corperation that's out to ruin their fun.

At least they recognized that there is a major difference between a company, even a small one, selling what is, essentially, bootleg TF toys and an artist selling pictures. It's essentially a matter of scale: a single artist may make a few bucks here and there on what is essentially free advertising, while the third-party companies are actually competing with Hasbro while still profiting from the Transformers' brand by making toys based on TF characters or concepts. Hasbro and Takara are TOY companies after all.

...and yes, it DOES smack of the giant corporation stomping on the "little guy." However, BotCon IS Hasbro's home turf, there are dozens of other TF conventions where the third-party companies can still show their stuff.

Burn wrote:I some how don't think these bans or not-bans will affect too many under 10 year olds.

Oh wait ... you're one of those who think Transformers is more of an adult thing. My bad.

As expensive as the whole trip is I'd be surprised that any kids and their (most likely bored out of their minds) parents turn up. If their parents are collectors themselves of course your statement is kinda irrelevant. We're talking about BotCon and how Hasbro's collectors offerings just suck in quality and price, at this point we could honestly do without the official club as far as I'm concerned, we get more info from Toy Fair and other non-Transformers conventions anyway.

Seriously I want to know now. How many kids can bee seen at BotCon on average?

Good news. I'm glad they're listening, even if it doesn't necessarily mean the same exception will apply in future years.

Everybody has seemed to ignore my first post requesting for a link to an "OFFICIAL" statement on an "OFFICIAL" Hasbro or Funpub website addressing the ban. Im tired of the rumor mill from "trusted sources" or tweets from TFW2005 members. Show me a god damn link from a Hasbro or Funpub website. Or show us a photo of the actual e-mail coming from Brian Savage's address. Their websites dont even aknowledge the bans existance. Every source of information about this ban originates from a fan site or those directly affiliated with a fan site.

Im beginning to think this whole 3rd party ban is just a fan hoax created by insiders that wish to abuse their credibility to push their agenda. If thats the truth then of course Hasbro and Funpub will not aknowledge it "officially" and just stay quiet and reap the benefits. Maybe Im imagining things, but this "ban" crap has been going on for 2 weeks with no official statement aknowledgeing it's existance.

Im calling out whoever reported this ban on the fan sites...

Screw the tweets, and secret sources. Prove the 3rd party ban is really "official".

Vicalliose wrote:

Burn wrote:I some how don't think these bans or not-bans will affect too many under 10 year olds.

Oh wait ... you're one of those who think Transformers is more of an adult thing. My bad.

As expensive as the whole trip is I'd be surprised that any kids and their (most likely bored out of their minds) parents turn up. If their parents are collectors themselves of course your statement is kinda irrelevant. We're talking about BotCon and how Hasbro's collectors offerings just suck in quality and price, at this point we could honestly do without the official club as far as I'm concerned, we get more info from Toy Fair and other non-Transformers conventions anyway.

Seriously I want to know now. How many kids can bee seen at BotCon on average?

Yes yes, BotCon isn't attended by the main target group of Transformers, it's aimed at the collectors.

That's not what i'm getting at.

What i'm getting at is this massive belief being perpetuated by those sprouting the anti-Hasbro sentiment that they are the target group of Transformers and that they're owed something by Hasbro and when Hasbro says otherwise, they cry and bemoan ... whilst running out to the nearest store to snap up the latest figures.

I'll be blunt. It's sad, it's pathetic, it's time people accepted that unless you're under the age of 15, Transformers is NOT aimed at you. You're just a minority demographic in the overall fanbase.

Rated X wrote:Everybody has seemed to ignore my first post requesting for a link to an "OFFICIAL" statement on an "OFFICIAL" Hasbro or Funpub website addressing the ban. Im tired of the rumor mill from "trusted sources" or tweets from TFW2005 members. Show me a god damn link from a Hasbro or Funpub website. Or show us a photo of the actual e-mail coming from Brian Savage's address. Their websites dont even aknowledge the bans existance. Every source of information about this ban originates from a fan site or those directly affiliated with a fan site.

Im beginning to think this whole 3rd party ban is just a fan hoax created by insiders that wish to abuse their credibility to push their agenda. If thats the truth then of course Hasbro and Funpub will not aknowledge it "officially" and just stay quiet and reap the benefits. Maybe Im imagining things, but this "ban" crap has been going on for 2 weeks with no official statement aknowledgeing it's existance.

Im calling out whoever reported this ban on the fan sites...

Screw the tweets, and secret sources. Prove the 3rd party ban is really "official".

Then you are gonna have to find someone who paid for a dealer's table for BotCon, because I guarantee you those are the only people who got actual emails and warnings about 3rd party products and the Artists Alley. It's not a cloak and dagger conspiracy theory, they are just sending the news to whom it applies to, ie. the people who paid to get table space to sell items.

I just want to give a huge THANK YOU to everyone who has kicked up a giant sh*it storm over this nonsense, for it seems we do still have the power to have a say in the fandom we have dedicated so much to!

As an artist I have followed this pathetic attempt closely, and it's nice to see it get reversed. I've never gone to botcon or any other con, neither have I sold fan art-but it's still a scary thing to suddenly have loom over the fandom.

28 odd years into a fandom is too late to be bitchin' that something is suddenly so wrong. The pricipal of profiting from fan art has been illegal since, I would imagine, fan art's birth-so you can't come crying foul now if you've flounted the law on the basis it does no harm to your company. If it wasn't that big a problem then, and during all these long years, why now?

Sorry, I've held off posting before now to avoid the rant I know is kempt inside me- But I just had to thank everyone using their voices

get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

griftimus prime wrote:get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

Assuming you mean stores that sell third party products, would that really hurt Hasbro? It might destroy Botcon and everyone's weekend, but would it really do anything to Hasbro?

I don't see how people can side with 3rd party manufactures. They are infringing on an international IP. Hasbro has to crack down now before 3rd parties get to a point where they start finding cost efficient ways of producing their product and start really cutting into Hasbro and Takara's market.

Lord Onixprime wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

Assuming you mean stores that sell third party products, would that really hurt Hasbro? It might destroy Botcon and everyone's weekend, but would it really do anything to Hasbro?

I don't see how people can side with 3rd party manufactures. They are infringing on an international IP. Hasbro has to crack down now before 3rd parties get to a point where they start finding cost efficient ways of producing their product and start really cutting into Hasbro and Takara's market.

Yes, we must stop these wonderful Ultra Magnus, Devestator, Springer, etc. homages and encourage false promises, endless seeker/ other figure repaints, and limited stocks throughout the US.

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Rated X wrote:Everybody has seemed to ignore my first post requesting for a link to an "OFFICIAL" statement on an "OFFICIAL" Hasbro or Funpub website addressing the ban. Im tired of the rumor mill from "trusted sources" or tweets from TFW2005 members. Show me a god damn link from a Hasbro or Funpub website. Or show us a photo of the actual e-mail coming from Brian Savage's address. Their websites dont even aknowledge the bans existance. Every source of information about this ban originates from a fan site or those directly affiliated with a fan site.

Im beginning to think this whole 3rd party ban is just a fan hoax created by insiders that wish to abuse their credibility to push their agenda. If thats the truth then of course Hasbro and Funpub will not aknowledge it "officially" and just stay quiet and reap the benefits. Maybe Im imagining things, but this "ban" crap has been going on for 2 weeks with no official statement aknowledgeing it's existance.

Im calling out whoever reported this ban on the fan sites...

Screw the tweets, and secret sources. Prove the 3rd party ban is really "official".

Then you are gonna have to find someone who paid for a dealer's table for BotCon, because I guarantee you those are the only people who got actual emails and warnings about 3rd party products and the Artists Alley. It's not a cloak and dagger conspiracy theory, they are just sending the news to whom it applies to, ie. the people who paid to get table space to sell items.

Well than how about one of these anonymous dealers come forward and show us the e-mail ???

Everything other update for paying Botcon ticket holders is posted on the website so why not this one. Dealers are ticket holders too. When I bought my Primus package, I had access to buy a dealers ticket, so all their updates should be addressed in “official” public forums as well. Only sending e-mails that might get bounced back by full inboxes might ruin the whole legality of this move since Hasbro and Funpub has not made this official. They have a legal obligation to take reasonable steps to notify their customers since a change was made after payment was received. “False advertising” is a legitimate beef in court.

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

Assuming you mean stores that sell third party products, would that really hurt Hasbro? It might destroy Botcon and everyone's weekend, but would it really do anything to Hasbro?

I don't see how people can side with 3rd party manufactures. They are infringing on an international IP. Hasbro has to crack down now before 3rd parties get to a point where they start finding cost efficient ways of producing their product and start really cutting into Hasbro and Takara's market.

Yes, we must stop these wonderful Ultra Magnus, Devestator, Springer, etc. homages and encourage false promises, endless seeker/ other figure repaints, and limited stocks throughout the US.

And while you're at it, lets totally kill off the Transformers franchise and programing so that we have nothing to actually be fans of.

Rated X wrote:

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Rated X wrote:Everybody has seemed to ignore my first post requesting for a link to an "OFFICIAL" statement on an "OFFICIAL" Hasbro or Funpub website addressing the ban. Im tired of the rumor mill from "trusted sources" or tweets from TFW2005 members. Show me a god damn link from a Hasbro or Funpub website. Or show us a photo of the actual e-mail coming from Brian Savage's address. Their websites dont even aknowledge the bans existance. Every source of information about this ban originates from a fan site or those directly affiliated with a fan site.

Im beginning to think this whole 3rd party ban is just a fan hoax created by insiders that wish to abuse their credibility to push their agenda. If thats the truth then of course Hasbro and Funpub will not aknowledge it "officially" and just stay quiet and reap the benefits. Maybe Im imagining things, but this "ban" crap has been going on for 2 weeks with no official statement aknowledgeing it's existance.

Im calling out whoever reported this ban on the fan sites...

Screw the tweets, and secret sources. Prove the 3rd party ban is really "official".

Then you are gonna have to find someone who paid for a dealer's table for BotCon, because I guarantee you those are the only people who got actual emails and warnings about 3rd party products and the Artists Alley. It's not a cloak and dagger conspiracy theory, they are just sending the news to whom it applies to, ie. the people who paid to get table space to sell items.

Well than how about one of these anonymous dealers come forward and show us the e-mail ???

Everything other update for paying Botcon ticket holders is posted on the website so why not this one. Dealers are ticket holders too. When I bought my Primus package, I had access to buy a dealers ticket, so all their updates should be addressed in “official” public forums as well. Only sending e-mails that might get bounced back by full inboxes might ruin the whole legality of this move since Hasbro and Funpub has not made this official. They have a legal obligation to take reasonable steps to notify their customers since a change was made after payment was received. “False advertising” is a legitimate beef in court.

I'm not a dealer, so I've received no 'dealer exclusive warning'. But I did take it upon my myself to email Pete@botcon directly about a private sell/trade involving 2 fans outside of the dealer room, with 3rd party products. This was his reply:

pete@botcon wrote:Hey...
>
>Anything you do outside of the exhibitor hall is your business
>
>We're not gonna have patrols our running through the hotel
>
>Thanks for checking though!!!
>
>Pete
>
>p.s. GREAT you are getting rid of the stuff too! The value of all that
>stuff will plummet in the long run. PERSONAL opinion...

On a more official level, we have been told (like everything else), there will be an official statement using official, policy based wording, that will be sent out regarding the ban of certain, unlicensed products:

Pete@botcon wrote:Just got an email from the brand team and it reiterates what I know some of you have gotten in email responses from us...
*****************
As long as it is official Hasbro OR TakaraTomy product then they are official products. They can also sell officially Licensed TF goods from Hasbro or TT.
If it's either made by Hasbro or TakaraTomy it is officially licensed by Hasbro or TakaraTomy... Anything else is a knock off or an unofficially licenced good.
*****************
So. To be 100% clear... Licensed Transformers either from Hasbro or Takara Tomy are fine. Licensed Sci-Fi related toys from other companies is fine as well. However, again, anything that violates Hasbro IP should not be brought to BotCon.

He also emailed us asking not to run with THAT statement as a news story, because he was awaiting for official wordage from the Brand team.

No official message has ever been sent, and with 20 days 'til the event, I doubt we will get one. If Pete is the front man for Fun Pub, and these are his words, that would make relatively official.

Lord Onixprime wrote:

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

Assuming you mean stores that sell third party products, would that really hurt Hasbro? It might destroy Botcon and everyone's weekend, but would it really do anything to Hasbro?

I don't see how people can side with 3rd party manufactures. They are infringing on an international IP. Hasbro has to crack down now before 3rd parties get to a point where they start finding cost efficient ways of producing their product and start really cutting into Hasbro and Takara's market.

Yes, we must stop these wonderful Ultra Magnus, Devestator, Springer, etc. homages and encourage false promises, endless seeker/ other figure repaints, and limited stocks throughout the US.

And while you're at it, lets totally kill off the Transformers franchise and programing so that we have nothing to actually be fans of.

Well considering the thing that got me into Transformers collecting, i.e. spending ALOT of money on OFFICIAL HASBRO PRODUCTS was the 3rd party city commander, I highly doubt it will...what was it...kill off a franchise that has been around longer than I've been alive...

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

Assuming you mean stores that sell third party products, would that really hurt Hasbro? It might destroy Botcon and everyone's weekend, but would it really do anything to Hasbro?

I don't see how people can side with 3rd party manufactures. They are infringing on an international IP. Hasbro has to crack down now before 3rd parties get to a point where they start finding cost efficient ways of producing their product and start really cutting into Hasbro and Takara's market.

Yes, we must stop these wonderful Ultra Magnus, Devestator, Springer, etc. homages and encourage false promises, endless seeker/ other figure repaints, and limited stocks throughout the US.

And while you're at it, lets totally kill off the Transformers franchise and programing so that we have nothing to actually be fans of.

Well considering the thing that got me into Transformers collecting, i.e. spending ALOT of money on OFFICIAL HASBRO PRODUCTS was the 3rd party city commander, I highly doubt it will...what was it...kill off a franchise that has been around longer than I've been alive...

That was in the toddler stage of this whole third party expansion. But now, you have companies being able to turn out products faster and faster (6 figures in a span of 6 months for Hercules) and at high quality. It only take them finding a way to make low-cost production possible and next thing you know HasTak can't keep up or compete with the rampant 3rd party KO's and the whole franchise falls a part. Knock offs have killed off the products they originally copied from and HasTak/Transformers is not immune to the very same thing happening.

It's business, and knock-offs/unlicensed products are indeed serious threat to business. You might view it as innocent companions with Hasbro product, or as vigilante companies giving fans what they really deserve, but it is all in danger of becoming a serious competitor with the ones who own the franchise they are capitalizing from.

But 7 Bumblebee toys and 10 Optimus Prime Toys...in one toy line mind you....absolutley won't drive collectors away.

And Im through discussing this for fear of bringing the wrath ofthe moderaters for getting off topic.