The Energon Pub

[sol magnus]

I don't think there's any chance that G1 goes away. Animated, Prime, RiD, and Cyberverse all have G1 characters and aesthetics, though with enough unique visual and design flair that they're not "just" G1. Cyberverse has a model that is consistent with the Generations line-wide approach: G1 core, but multiple characters from other franchises with distinct roles.

It's also possible that post-WfC, the IDW comics may find a way to integrate the franchises like they did pre-reboot. I loved the concept of planetary colonies with distinct franchises, like Eukaris with the Beast Wars characters.

I would also appreciate if at least one thread on these boards wouldn't devolve into factional bickering, but Earthrise is too new to be anything but baseless speculation and territorial conflict.

There's really only one or two people who decry 'G1', which is like spitting in the wind. Hasbro has mined these characters for 40 years. Even when they turn it on it's ear, the 'originals' find a way to creep into the toyline, if not whatever show happens to be on.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

I don't think there's any chance that G1 goes away. Animated, Prime, RiD, and Cyberverse all have G1 characters and aesthetics, though with enough unique visual and design flair that they're not "just" G1. Cyberverse has a model that is consistent with the Generations line-wide approach: G1 core, but multiple characters from other franchises with distinct roles.

This is the point though. G1 is dead. It ended with Zone in 1990. The Classics toyline and Marvel Comics kept it going outside of TV for a little longer than that.

What Animated and co above inherited from G1 is brand recognition and name reuse. No one has ever returned to G1, beat for beat. They have new stories, new settings, new iterations of previous characters. They have never returned to Mt St Hilary in 1984, Golden Lagoons or Planet Eaters made by monkey scientists.

Like X-Men, the 60's original series still exists and is still occasionally referenced, but it is no longer the basis of the entire Franchise. This circular nostalgia is the problem that befell Mattel with He-Man and is deeply concerning for Transformers' future. The conceited arrogance of some believing 1984-86 is all there is, and all everyone wants, for these Giant Alien Robots, is baffling.

I've always been a champion of plot progression. Which Transformers is only second to TMNT among its contemporaries, in its ability to successfully do. Optimus Prime doesn't have to be an outdated lorry:

He can be this


Or this:


Much as Megatron can be this:



or this:



Reinvention, change, evolution. Those things and not catering to nostalgia alone, keep franchises relevant and ongoing. The original fanbase is ever dwindling. HasTak need to have a plan B for when they go.

[no-one]

HasTak need to have a plan B for when they go.

They already have one; the G1 fans will force their nostalgia onto their children who will then just continue to buy G1 flavored bots. Rinse repeat

[Cobotron]

All New, I'm not arguing. I do believe the franchise is due for something fresh. You can hear me semi rant on this on the second to last Twincast.
But, what I'm curious about is, where do you get your facts?

The conceited arrogance of some believing 1984-86 is all there is, and all everyone wants, for these Giant Alien Robots, is baffling.

Where do you encounter these people? Are you referring to the fandom, or the current Hasbro design team? If the fandom, I certainly don't see that attitude reflected here on Seibertron. Or at least I haven't encountered any G1 Nazis for several years now.

The original fanbase is ever dwindling. HasTak need to have a plan B for when they go.

Is it dwindling? I and many others who were the target demographic in the mid 80's are still here. And the current course of the line would suggest that not only are they selling Generations to the old collectors, but scooping up plenty of new ones along the way.

[Sentinel_Primal]

I don't think there's any chance that G1 goes away. Animated, Prime, RiD, and Cyberverse all have G1 characters and aesthetics, though with enough unique visual and design flair that they're not "just" G1. Cyberverse has a model that is consistent with the Generations line-wide approach: G1 core, but multiple characters from other franchises with distinct roles.

It's also possible that post-WfC, the IDW comics may find a way to integrate the franchises like they did pre-reboot. I loved the concept of planetary colonies with distinct franchises, like Eukaris with the Beast Wars characters.

I would also appreciate if at least one thread on these boards wouldn't devolve into factional bickering, but Earthrise is too new to be anything but baseless speculation and territorial conflict.

There's really only one or two people who decry 'G1', which is like spitting in the wind. Hasbro has mined these characters for 40 years. Even when they turn it on it's ear, the 'originals' find a way to creep into the toyline, if not whatever show happens to be on.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Except in this case, people are just asking for things in addition to the originals. As far as I can tell, no one's saying "Drop G1 and start remaking UT or Animated". Personally, I'm not even asking that they stop making the majority of figures G1 or G1 styled, just make some figures from the other eras, even if they have to be "G1-ified". Thrilling 30 was the last time the main Generations line (movie toylines don't count because they've usually been separate from the main line) really had figures designed as the characters from other eras where it wasn't just a simple repaint/remolded head designed to satisfy the fans . They had Beast Wars, RiD 2001, Armada, and even IDW designs. Prime Wars still had a handful of figures for other eras with Primal, Magnus, Chromedome, and G2 Prime, but otherwise it was fairly basic in terms of updating G1, which is fair considering they were updating Combiners and headmasters which fills up slots quickly.

It's not fair to judge WFC yet considering they've only had one line and Wave 1 of the second to establish their design choices which is shorter compared to both, but so far, they've only had Galaxy Prime which was based off the Magnus mold with a new trailer, and Rung. So, while it's not much, it's still the very beginning of the trilogy. However, after seeing the "budget MP" design for Earthrise, particularly evident with Grapple and Prime, I would say it's not unreasonable to be concerned about Hasbro potentially not doing figures for characters outside G1 for Earthrise, at least in the distinct style of the character's originating era. There's a difference between "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and people wanting to have more designs from other series they enjoy.

[sol magnus]

I don't think there's any chance that G1 goes away. Animated, Prime, RiD, and Cyberverse all have G1 characters and aesthetics, though with enough unique visual and design flair that they're not "just" G1. Cyberverse has a model that is consistent with the Generations line-wide approach: G1 core, but multiple characters from other franchises with distinct roles.

It's also possible that post-WfC, the IDW comics may find a way to integrate the franchises like they did pre-reboot. I loved the concept of planetary colonies with distinct franchises, like Eukaris with the Beast Wars characters.

I would also appreciate if at least one thread on these boards wouldn't devolve into factional bickering, but Earthrise is too new to be anything but baseless speculation and territorial conflict.

There's really only one or two people who decry 'G1', which is like spitting in the wind. Hasbro has mined these characters for 40 years. Even when they turn it on it's ear, the 'originals' find a way to creep into the toyline, if not whatever show happens to be on.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Except in this case, people are just asking for things in addition to the originals. As far as I can tell, no one's saying "Drop G1 and start remaking UT or Animated". Personally, I'm not even asking that they stop making the majority of figures G1 or G1 styled, just make some figures from the other eras, even if they have to be "G1-ified". Thrilling 30 was the last time the main Generations line (movie toylines don't count because they've usually been separate from the main line) really had figures designed as the characters from other eras where it wasn't just a simple repaint/remolded head designed to satisfy the fans . They had Beast Wars, RiD 2001, Armada, and even IDW designs. Prime Wars still had a handful of figures for other eras with Primal, Magnus, Chromedome, and G2 Prime, but otherwise it was fairly basic in terms of updating G1, which is fair considering they were updating Combiners and headmasters which fills up slots quickly.

It's not fair to judge WFC yet considering they've only had one line and Wave 1 of the second to establish their design choices which is shorter compared to both, but so far, they've only had Galaxy Prime which was based off the Magnus mold with a new trailer, and Rung. So, while it's not much, it's still the very beginning of the trilogy. However, after seeing the "budget MP" design for Earthrise, particularly evident with Grapple and Prime, I would say it's not unreasonable to be concerned about Hasbro potentially not doing figures for characters outside G1 for Earthrise, at least in the distinct style of the character's originating era. There's a difference between "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and people wanting to have more designs from other series they enjoy.

Agree. I, for one, have been here since 1984. I LOVE new things. But I love "old" things, too. I want it all. New characters attached to 'G1' has never been a problem.

[ZeroWolf]

I don't think there's any chance that G1 goes away. Animated, Prime, RiD, and Cyberverse all have G1 characters and aesthetics, though with enough unique visual and design flair that they're not "just" G1. Cyberverse has a model that is consistent with the Generations line-wide approach: G1 core, but multiple characters from other franchises with distinct roles.

This is the point though. G1 is dead. It ended with Zone in 1990. The Classics toyline and Marvel Comics kept it going outside of TV for a little longer than that.

What Animated and co above inherited from G1 is brand recognition and name reuse. No one has ever returned to G1, beat for beat. They have new stories, new settings, new iterations of previous characters. They have never returned to Mt St Hilary in 1984, Golden Lagoons or Planet Eaters made by monkey scientists.

Like X-Men, the 60's original series still exists and is still occasionally referenced, but it is no longer the basis of the entire Franchise. This circular nostalgia is the problem that befell Mattel with He-Man and is deeply concerning for Transformers' future. The conceited arrogance of some believing 1984-86 is all there is, and all everyone wants, for these Giant Alien Robots, is baffling.

I've always been a champion of plot progression. Which Transformers is only second to TMNT among its contemporaries, in its ability to successfully do. Optimus Prime doesn't have to be an outdated lorry:

He can be this


Or this:


Much as Megatron can be this:



or this:



Reinvention, change, evolution. Those things and not catering to nostalgia alone, keep franchises relevant and ongoing. The original fanbase is ever dwindling. HasTak need to have a plan B for when they go.

Those pictures make me sad that Bandai and Takara are major rivals so we'll never see a Transformers x Gundam I'd love to see a Rick Dom Optimus Prime or a Neul Zeal Megatron. C'est La vie

I too though want the franchise to move to the future, they can't mine the past forever.

Also G1 didn't end with Zone in Japan, it ended with Operation Combination a few years later. Which coincided with the release of the Brave series of Anime... Another crossover denied to us

[Skritz]

Iirc the Gundam models were used as a placeholder for a robot mode on these very, very early vehicle mode choices. Especially since we have a proper and finalized Transtech design for Optimus and Megatron, both of which I'd love to see in toy form but we'll never get them. Closest we have to a Transtech design is Animated Blurr who was inspired by Transtech Cheetor and, in turn, got retooled into an Animated Cheetor.

[Sabrblade]

Iirc the Gundam models were used as a placeholder for a robot mode on these very, very early vehicle mode choices. Especially since we have a proper and finalized Transtech design for Optimus and Megatron, both of which I'd love to see in toy form but we'll never get them. Closest we have to a Transtech design is Animated Blurr who was inspired by Transtech Cheetor and, in turn, got retooled into an Animated Cheetor.

Transtech Megatron also loosely inspired both Armada Megatron and Animated Shockwave.

[Skritz]

Iirc the Gundam models were used as a placeholder for a robot mode on these very, very early vehicle mode choices. Especially since we have a proper and finalized Transtech design for Optimus and Megatron, both of which I'd love to see in toy form but we'll never get them. Closest we have to a Transtech design is Animated Blurr who was inspired by Transtech Cheetor and, in turn, got retooled into an Animated Cheetor.

Transtech Megatron also loosely inspired both Armada Megatron and Animated Shockwave.

Correct.

[Wolfman Jake]

Iirc the Gundam models were used as a placeholder for a robot mode on these very, very early vehicle mode choices. Especially since we have a proper and finalized Transtech design for Optimus and Megatron, both of which I'd love to see in toy form but we'll never get them. Closest we have to a Transtech design is Animated Blurr who was inspired by Transtech Cheetor and, in turn, got retooled into an Animated Cheetor.

Transtech Megatron also loosely inspired both Armada Megatron and Animated Shockwave.

Correct.

There are some striking similarities to Revenge of the Fallen Megatron as well.

[ZeroWolf]

Also looks like something that could have easily been included in a Metal Gear Solid game

[sol magnus]

HasTak need to have a plan B for when they go.

They already have one; the G1 fans will force their nostalgia onto their children who will then just continue to buy G1 flavored bots. Rinse repeat

When my kid was first introduced to Transformers, I didn't shove G1 stuff down his throat. I showed him Rescue Bots, which really only has Bumblebee and Prime. While he thought it was cool, he immediately stopped caring about it when he watched a single episode of the original series. He only wants "GEEWUN" inspired figures and obsesses over dad's Masterpiece and Siege figures despite my attempts to steer him towards a version of Transformers that could be "his" (like Prime or Cyberverse, which are themselves iterations of G1). Even with all that, I've held out from getting him anything 'adult' oriented.

His first "G1" inspired toy will be Leader Class Optimus Prime from Earthfall, because whatever Prime he gets "needs a Matwix."

All these guys sitting here with all their "G1 is dead" and that kind of jazz miss just how timeless this franchise and these characters are. For better or worse, I would expect reiterations on a theme from now til doomsday - because it works. That doesn't mean I'm not open to "change" per se, but I'm in my mid 40s and i don't see myself going anywhere in some aspect. Maybe just watching that old "dead" cartoon that my son (and daughters) get such a kick out of that they'll drop their day to watch it with me.

Anybody can come up with a fact free rant about how "GEEWUN Bad" or "G1 fans are dropping like flies" or make grand proclamations about how Hasbro just doesn't want to move on, but from what I've seen being a Hasbro toy collector since 1982 is they do what works and they stop when it don't.

[ZeroWolf]

HasTak need to have a plan B for when they go.

They already have one; the G1 fans will force their nostalgia onto their children who will then just continue to buy G1 flavored bots. Rinse repeat

When my kid was first introduced to Transformers, I didn't shove G1 stuff down his throat. I showed him Rescue Bots, which really only has Bumblebee and Prime. While he thought it was cool, he immediately stopped caring about it when he watched a single episode of the original series. He only wants "GEEWUN" inspired figures and obsesses over dad's Masterpiece and Siege figures despite my attempts to steer him towards a version of Transformers that could be "his" (like Prime or Cyberverse, which are themselves iterations of G1). Even with all that, I've held out from getting him anything 'adult' oriented.

His first "G1" inspired toy will be Leader Class Optimus Prime from Earthfall, because whatever Prime he gets "needs a Matwix."

All these guys sitting here with all their "G1 is dead" and that kind of jazz miss just how timeless this franchise and these characters are. For better or worse, I would expect reiterations on a theme from now til doomsday - because it works. That doesn't mean I'm not open to "change" per se, but I'm in my mid 40s and i don't see myself going anywhere in some aspect. Maybe just watching that old "dead" cartoon that my son (and daughters) get such a kick out of that they'll drop their day to watch it with me.

Anybody can come up with a fact free rant about how "GEEWUN Bad" or "G1 fans are dropping like flies" or make grand proclamations about how Hasbro just doesn't want to move on, but from what I've seen being a Hasbro toy collector since 1982 is they do what works and they stop when it don't.

See my kids were the opposite, couldn't get them to sit through a single G1 ep (which I can't now sadly either) put Rescue Bots on (or Lord help me, Bakugan) and that's it for them.

Though in my case, I think it's because I've rationalised it as G1 being the best American cartoon of the 80s, that's all as the nineties overloaded me with much better cartoon offerings with better scripts and much better animation (which is understandable coming after G1) I had to face facts that my tastes had changed.

I'm rambling again, I guess for me, I respect G1 as the foundations but G1, for me, is far from the franchise at its best. I can also see somewhat what Hasbro is attempting with the robot modes in Siege and both modes in Earthrise, giving fans what they couldn't do with 80s engineering, in cartoon accurate modes. My fear is what then? Nostalgia can add to an experience but it should never drive it.

What I want is moderation, a few G1 stuff, a few other nods and a lot of new things, either new takes on old characters or completely new characters that we can learn to love just as we did Hound and the rest. Though on that last part, we do need the other media to pick up the ball and run with it. Alpha Bravo could have been amazing if the comics fleshed him out properly or if the Machima series hadn't just been about Windblade.

Actually I just had a revelation of sorts, something we haven't had in a while, not properly since G1, but the trinity of media, cartoon, toyline, comic. Sure we had the Armada and Energon comics (before they were cancelled) but I learnt about their existence after the fact.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Where do you encounter these people? Are you referring to the fandom, or the current Hasbro design team? If the fandom, I certainly don't see that attitude reflected here on Seibertron. Or at least I haven't encountered any G1 Nazis for several years now.

Other than the occasional devils advocate or ceaseless contrarian, most on here are fine. The issue does lay in the design team. This is supposed to be the 35th anniversary of the Transformers as a franchise. That is what is being touted, not what is being produced.

WFC would/should have been the perfect showcase for it all. SIEGE = G1. Make an entire line based around those pilot episode designs and concepts. Although in reality that was a success on the Decepticons side, a failure on the Autobots in hindsight. Next year is the 20th anniversary of Car Robots, so you know what would/should be the basis of Earthrise? The next generation of shows set on Earth. An assortment of Car Robots, UT, Animated (though less stylised) and Prime designs. The last part of WFC? The "Future" shows. The Takara series, Beast Era, Bayformers and even some G2 for novelty.

The unending War for Cybertron, as depicted in every part of the franchise. In a paragraph, I've summed up a rough outline how to celebrate Transformers anniversary, beginning to present day, catering to everyone.

The original fanbase is ever dwindling. HasTak need to have a plan B for when they go.

Is it dwindling? I and many others who were the target demographic in the mid 80's are still here. And the current course of the line would suggest that not only are they selling Generations to the old collectors, but scooping up plenty of new ones along the way.

The original fanbase is approximately 30's to 40's. Hasbro have reiterated time and again, they predominantly sell to kids. It's simple maths/biology. The older the original fanbase gets, the less likely Hasbro is to know how to cater to them.
I come back to the Mattel example. They held steadfast to their original fanbase and even aimed a 2000's rebooted line directly at them. "Remember Us?" was the tagline of the figures. What happened? Cancellation. Because they weren't aiming the new show/toys at the new and more relevant generation of kids that their original fanbase were. Up until very recently (a new series has been announced), He-Man's once market dominance was relegated to a collectors line that wasn't sold or even marketed anywhere but through direct online vendors.

Back to X-Men, while most fans are aware of the Original Five from the 60's series, no one is asking for their toys, team or their series to be rebooted ad nauseum. Too many new and popular characters were created since. As it should be.

[Skritz]

Allright, since I've drive a lot of the negativity in the thread allow me to throw around some pipe dreams for Earthrise, ranging from nearly-certain-we-will-get to yeah-buddy-keep-dreaming. Those are the things I'm hoping to see.

Almost certain:
-Sunstreaker, to go with Siege Sideswipe
-Inferno, retool from Grapple
-Snapdragon to go with Siege Apeface

Plausible:
-Warpath
-Blaster
-Coneheads from the new Seeker mold, granted I expect one or two to be in SELECTS

Pipe dreams:
-Euro G1/G2 stuff, like Pyro, Clench, Thunderclash or Rotorstorm and the likes given a design that is essentially what they would have looked like in the G1 toon
-Something from RiD 2001, be it the Car brothers as retools or Fire Convoy as the second Optimus of the line
-The 'missing' Headmasters from Titans Return who at best were in the line as stand-alone heads
-Star Saber
-Deathsaurus
-Leader Grimlock
-Snapdragon, Deathsaurus or Grimlock into Beast Wars Megatron....again, at best a SELECTS offering but at least he'd have a few options of guys-to-be-retoole-from

If I get a single one of the Plausible or Pipe Dream guys, I'm happy.

[ZeroWolf]

I'd say starsaber may be more of a contender for the third part.

[Skritz]

I'd say starsaber may be more of a contender for the third part.

Yeah but we've been waiting for him to show up since Titans Return...

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Star Saber could be the Commander Class of WFC 3 though, alongside a [long overdue] Victory Leo?

[ZeroWolf]

Star Saber could be the Commander Class of WFC 3 though, alongside a [long overdue] Victory Leo?

Heck I'll take leader Class Star Saber and voyager Victory Leo!

I know we've been waiting a while but I do think we're closer then before to getting him, especially with the hints of what's to come.

[sol magnus]

Star Saber could be the Commander Class of WFC 3 though, alongside a [long overdue] Victory Leo?

Heck I'll take leader Class Star Saber and voyager Victory Leo!

I know we've been waiting a while but I do think we're closer then before to getting him, especially with the hints of what's to come.

I skipped the Masterpiece, so I will definitely be on board for a WFC version.

[Sentinel_Primal]

Plausible:
-Warpath
-Blaster
-Coneheads from the new Seeker mold, granted I expect one or two to be in SELECTS

I'd be appalled if we didn't get Coneheads out of the new Seeker mold. This new mold is perfect for the Coneheads, even if they release them like they released the Rainmakers in Siege.

And in the realm of pipe dreams, I'll add my list:
-Voyager Doubledealer with both of his powermasters
-Deluxe Tracks (with a SELECTS repaint for Road Rage)
-Leader Cybertron/Galaxy Force Megatron

[D-Maximal_Primal]

I'd be appalled if we didn't get Coneheads out of the new Seeker mold. This new mold is perfect for the Coneheads, even if they release them like they released the Rainmakers in Siege.

Same. they could not have done that mold the way they did without the Coneheads in mind. And they must do all 3, don't waste it!

[Deadput]

I hope that if they do Coneheads that the Cone on the head ends up being optional.

I won't mind if it's on all the time but I'd rather have it be a choice.

[Skritz]

If Siege is any indication we'll get 2-3 weirdoes to satisfy people like me, who like their oddballs.