The Energon Pub

by **SJ21** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:04 am

Why did she have a spider alt mode when she was on Cybertron? That makes no sense.

Otherwise I thought it was a great episode.

I agree with Red 50. I think her alt mode is when she was walking around on her spider legs. When she was interrogating Arcee she is walking on her regular legs. Then when she was on Earth there were no normal legs, just the spider legs.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:12 am

SJ21 wrote:Why did she have a spider alt mode when she was on Cybertron? That makes no sense.

How do we know that the flashbacks took place on Cybertron? They could have been elsewhere on another colony world after the Great Exodus.

SJ21 wrote:I agree with Red 50. I think her alt mode is when she was walking around on her spider legs. When she was interrogating Arcee she is walking on her regular legs. Then when she was on Earth there were no normal legs, just the spider legs.

she assumes her normal Robot Mode at least twice on Earth. Once when we first see her on Earth, and then again when she's realized that Jack went inside her ship and she enters from its "back door" of sorts.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:18 am

SJ21 wrote:Why did she have a spider alt mode when she was on Cybertron? That makes no sense.

Laserbeak, Ravage, and Ratbat were all Earth animals before coming to Earth.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:40 pm

Shadowman wrote:
SJ21 wrote:Why did she have a spider alt mode when she was on Cybertron? That makes no sense.

Laserbeak, Ravage, and Ratbat were all Earth animals before coming to Earth.

Laserbeak yes and Ravage maybe, but in this series, Ratbat may not have been a bat on Cybertron since he's most based off of his IDW Senator portrayal.

Though, this is true for the G1 Marvel Comics versions of the these three (the cartoon only ever showed Laserbeak's pre-Earth form).

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:21 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
SJ21 wrote:Why did she have a spider alt mode when she was on Cybertron? That makes no sense.

Laserbeak, Ravage, and Ratbat were all Earth animals before coming to Earth.
Laserbeak yes and Ravage maybe, but in this series, Ratbat may not have been a bat on Cybertron since he's most based off of his IDW Senator portrayal.

Though, this is true for the G1 Marvel Comics versions of the these three (the cartoon only ever showed Laserbeak's pre-Earth form).

I was talking about G1, but not any particular version of it; they're all shown pre-Earth at one point or another and they're all shown having distinctly animal forms at one point or another.

by **SJ21** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:17 pm

Sabrblade wrote:How do we know that the flashbacks took place on Cybertron? They could have been elsewhere on another colony world after the Great Exodus.

Good point. That thought never crossed my mind. I kind of assumed it from the backgrounds. It looked kind of Cybertron-y to me.

Sabrblade wrote:she assumes her normal Robot Mode at least twice on Earth. Once when we first see her on Earth, and then again when she's realized that Jack went inside her ship and she enters from its "back door" of sorts.

I only saw the episode once, and now that you say that I remember that she was on legs when she went back into the ship. So I guess the only difference between her bot and alt mods is that her bot legs form the spider body and her spider legs get longer and she walks on them.

Shadowman wrote:Laserbeak, Ravage, and Ratbat were all Earth animals before coming to Earth

Well, it didn't make sense back in the '80s either. I know in the first episode of G1, Laserbeak had a Cybertronian alt mode. It looked pretty much like a bird with a rounder head and wings, but it was different. I don't think Ravage appeared in the cartoon until everyone was on Earth, and I know Ratbat didn't. I am basing this solely on the cartoon. I didn't read the comics.

by **Lorekeeper** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:06 am

SJ21 wrote:Well, it didn't make sense back in the '80s either. I know in the first episode of G1, Laserbeak had a Cybertronian alt mode. It looked pretty much like a bird with a rounder head and wings, but it was different. I don't think Ravage appeared in the cartoon until everyone was on Earth, and I know Ratbat didn't. I am basing this solely on the cartoon. I didn't read the comics.

This has always been a sticking point for me, too, (along with the basic transformers' "humanoid" shape.) There are two distinct possibilities as I reason it: (1) Parallel "evolution," or (2) organic contact. In scenario (1), many forms of Cybertronian life developed, with more than one "species" developing human-like intelligence. The humanoid/vehicle Transformers were the dominant species, largely driving the other species out of competition. In scenario (2), the Transformers came in contact with organic Earth-like ecologies at several points in their history, influencing various Transformers' primary and alternate modes.

[I won't even get into (2b), organic origins of the Transformers: (2bi) ala Beast Machines or (2bii) ala Starriors.]

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:19 am

Lorekeeper wrote:This has always been a sticking point for me, too, (along with the basic transformers' "humanoid" shape.) There are two distinct possibilities as I reason it: (1) Parallel "evolution," or (2) organic contact. In scenario (1), many forms of Cybertronian life developed, with more than one "species" developing human-like intelligence. The humanoid/vehicle Transformers were the dominant species, largely driving the other species out of competition. In scenario (2), the Transformers came in contact with organic Earth-like ecologies at several points in their history, influencing various Transformers' primary and alternate modes.

[I won't even get into (2b), organic origins of the Transformers: (2bi) ala Beast Machines or (2bii) ala Starriors.]

In Marvel G1, while Ravage/Laserbeak/Buzzsaw/Ratbat all had animal forms on Cybertron, they all spoke and thought normally as any intellectuals would.

It was only in the cartoon where they acted like pure animals (though, Ravage spoke inside Soundwaves chest in G1 episode 3, and The Heamdasters anime had Ratba,t Ravage and Laserbeak speaking in full verbal dialogue).

Though, Ramhorn also spoke in the G1 cartoon, and I know Steeljaw could speak in The Headmasters.

by **Red 50** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:05 pm

When is the next episode gonna be out?

News Credits: 2 · by **Twitchythe3rd** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:20 pm

Red 50 wrote:When is the next episode gonna be out?

This Saturday I think.

by **crashhcourse** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:29 pm

Episode guide says the 30th, so....?

by **psj333** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:01 pm

Shadowman, earlier, you've said that Airachnid did not have a beast mode, despite her organic appearance. However, after I've seen her in Predatory I'm now almost certain that she may be most likely a helicopter, based on her design. You can clearly see Airachnid's spider legs form together into a rotor's middle knob on her back, and you can also see spiderweb-like window patterns on her shoulders that will form a cockpit. Obviously, she'll be some sort of stealth attack helicopter. It's just that in this continuity, Transformers apparently need to scan something before they can transform (I blamed Bay and his writers for this idiocy, as if TFs couldn't transform on Cybertron...), just as with Skyquake, Airachnid couldn't transform (also due to budgetary reasons) until she scans a helicopter.

Her 'Lolth mode' is just an intermediate mode, sort of like BM Jetstorm's 'nolegs' mode (the toy's, that is).

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:02 pm

psj333 wrote:Shadowman, earlier, you've said that Airachnid did not have a beast mode, despite her organic appearance. However, after I've seen her in Predatory I'm now almost certain that she may be most likely a helicopter, based on her design. You can clearly see Airachnid's spider legs form together into a rotor's middle knob on her back, and you can also see spiderweb-like window patterns on her shoulders that will form a cockpit. Obviously, she'll be some sort of stealth attack helicopter. It's just that in this continuity, Transformers apparently need to scan something before they can transform (I blamed Bay and his writers for this idiocy, as if TFs couldn't transform on Cybertron...), just as with Skyquake, Airachnid couldn't transform (also due to budgetary reasons) until she scans a helicopter.

Her 'Lolth mode' is just an intermediate mode, sort of like BM Jetstorm's 'nolegs' mode (the toy's, that is).

She's a Spider-humanoid, not a helicopter. She doesn't need to scan a different altmode. Why can't she just be left as that?

And BM Jetstorm officially does not have legs. The toys just gave him some for increased playability.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:53 pm

psj333 wrote:Shadowman, earlier, you've said that Airachnid did not have a beast mode, despite her organic appearance. However, after I've seen her in Predatory I'm now almost certain that she may be most likely a helicopter, based on her design.

A helicopter is not a beast mode, so my point still stands.

psj333 wrote:You can clearly see Airachnid's spider legs form together into a rotor's middle knob on her back, and you can also see spiderweb-like window patterns on her shoulders that will form a cockpit. Obviously, she'll be some sort of stealth attack helicopter.

You got all of that conjecture based on one tiny piece of her design? You think maybe with her obvious spider aesthetic it would mean she'd turn into a giant spider?

psj333 wrote:It's just that in this continuity, Transformers apparently need to scan something before they can transform (I blamed Bay and his writers for this idiocy, as if TFs couldn't transform on Cybertron...), just as with Skyquake, Airachnid couldn't transform (also due to budgetary reasons) until she scans a helicopter.

Uh, what? In the movies, out of three of Megatron's alt-modes, only one of them is Earth-based. He's shown transforming into Cybertronian vehicles in the first two movies. And that's not counting the atmospheric entry pod alt-modes the Autobots use in the first movie. Just because they don't show everyone's pre-Earth alt-mode, doesn't mean it doesn't exist in that continuity.

by **psj333** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:22 am

This is a a response to Saberblade and Shadowman. First of all, I already understood that a helicopter is not a animal but a vehicle. But according to many different source, everybody is speculating that Airachnid's alt-mode is most likely some type of aircraft, whether helicopter or not, since part of her name is Air and not Ar, since spiders don't fly. As for Saberblade, you said that Airachnid is a spider-humanoid. I strongly disagree with that. First of all, there are no Predacons in Transformers: Prime as of yet. Secondly, Airachnid is a Decepticon, which means that Airachnid is a robot. As referring to Airachnid's humanoid appearance, I somewhat agree with this, since that many Transformers did have different humanlike appearance. Lastly, it's impossible that Airachnid did not have an alt-mode, whether beast or vehicle, but in my knowledge, every robot in the Transformers universe must have their own alt-mode to transform into, which is why these robots got their Transformers trademark name from. Otherwise, they wouldn't be called Transformers now, would they? Therefore, I'm certain that Airachnid did indeed has an alt-mode, although we still don't know which one. If you still don't agree with me, then please feel free to comment below and tell me about what's right about it.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:34 pm

psj333 wrote:But according to many different source, everybody is speculating that Airachnid's alt-mode is most likely some type of aircraft

Who are these sources?

psj333 wrote:since spiders don't fly.

True fact: yes they do, by using their webbing to travel along air currents.

psj333 wrote:As for Saberblade, you said that Airachnid is a spider-humanoid. I strongly disagree with that. First of all, there are no Predacons in Transformers: Prime as of yet. Secondly, Airachnid is a Decepticon, which means that Airachnid is a robot.

What are you talking about? Plenty of Decepticons had animal or insect alt-modes. The Insecticons, for instance, Ravage, Laserbeak, Ratbat, the original Predacon team (Predaking's components, not the faction from Beast Wars), Blackarachnia from Animated, and many more.

psj333 wrote:As referring to Airachnid's humanoid appearance, I somewhat agree with this, since that many Transformers did have different humanlike appearance.

"Humanoid" means you have the same basic shape as a human, i.e. two arms, two legs, a torso and a head. Few transformers DON'T have a humanoid mode (And I think most of those are teamed up with Blaster or Soundwave)

psj333 wrote:Lastly, it's impossible that Airachnid did not have an alt-mode, whether beast or vehicle, but in my knowledge, every robot in the Transformers universe must have their own alt-mode to transform into, which is why these robots got their Transformers trademark name from.

Alpha Trion would like to have a word with you. While we're at it, so would the Action Masters.

psj333 wrote:Therefore, I'm certain that Airachnid did indeed has an alt-mode, although we still don't know which one.

A moment ago, you were complaining that Transformers "have' to scan Earth vehicles to Transform in this series. Now you're 'certain" the exact opposite is true.

psj333 wrote:If you still don't agree with me, then please feel free to comment below and tell me about what's right about it.

Well, most of your points are easily disproven by pre-existing characters and themes. So there's that.

by **psj333** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:54 pm

Shadowman,let me clear up of some of the points that you've just made earlier. First of all, I just want to let you know that the sources that I've got about Airachnid's alt-mode are certainly not from Wikipedia, rather are from members of forums of various Transformers related sites, concerning the possible speculation of Airachnid's true alt-mode. And it seems to me that almost all had the same answer: a helicopter, which most likely suggests part of her name, "Air" may be most likely to describe her flight mode. Secondly, you mentioned that some Transformers took the forms of vehicles, animals, insects, and tools. Those forms that these robots took are actually disguises, which is the main reason why Transformers are always called "Robots In Disguise". Lastly, you've stated that I said that a Transformer must scan an Earth vehicle or a animal to Transform into his or her alt-mode. I believe that you somewhat missing this whole point here. I didn't really say that. What I was really saying, however, that every Transformer must have a robot mode and an alt-mode, whether it's Cybertronian or Earth, vehicle or beast. So far, I've never ever seen a Transformer that only has a robot mode without his or her alt-mode. If that's the case, then this robot wouldn't be called a Transformer now, would he?

by **psj333** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:56 pm

Shadowman,let me clear up of some of the points that you've just made earlier. First of all, I just want to let you know that the sources that I've got about Airachnid's alt-mode are certainly not from Wikipedia, rather are from members of forums of various Transformers related sites, concerning the possible speculation of Airachnid's true alt-mode. And it seems to me that almost all had the same answer: a helicopter, which most likely suggests part of her name, "Air" may be most likely to describe her flight mode. Secondly, you mentioned that some Transformers took the forms of vehicles, animals, insects, and tools. Those forms that these robots took are actually disguises, which is the main reason why Transformers are always called "Robots In Disguise". Lastly, you've stated that I said that a Transformer must scan an Earth vehicle or a animal to Transform into his or her alt-mode. I believe that you somewhat missing this whole point here. I didn't really say that. What I was really saying, however, that every Transformer must have a robot mode and an alt-mode, whether it's Cybertronian or Earth, vehicle or beast. So far, I've never ever seen a Transformer that only has a robot mode without his or her alt-mode. If that's the case, then this robot wouldn't be called a Transformer now, would he?

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:07 pm

psj333 wrote:Shadowman,let me clear up of some of the points that you've just made earlier. First of all, I just want to let you know that the sources that I've got about Airachnid's alt-mode are certainly not from Wikipedia, rather are from members of forums of various Transformers related sites, concerning the possible speculation of Airachnid's true alt-mode. And it seems to me that almost all had the same answer: a helicopter, which most likely suggests part of her name, "Air" may be most likely to describe her flight mode.

Fan speculation, nothing more.

psj333 wrote:Secondly, you mentioned that some Transformers took the forms of vehicles, animals, insects, and tools. Those forms that these robots took are actually disguises, which is the main reason why Transformers are always called "Robots In Disguise".

Er...yeah, I know. Remember that bit you said about Predacons? That's why I brought up non-Predacons with beast modes. It's like you're reading all my posts out of context.

psj333 wrote:Lastly, you've stated that I said that a Transformer must scan an Earth vehicle or a animal to Transform into his or her alt-mode. I believe that you somewhat missing this whole point here. I didn't really say that.

Really? if you didn't say that, why did you say that?

psj333 wrote:It's just that in this continuity, Transformers apparently need to scan something before they can transform (I blamed Bay and his writers for this idiocy, as if TFs couldn't transform on Cybertron...), just as with Skyquake, Airachnid couldn't transform (also due to budgetary reasons) until she scans a helicopter.:

psj333 wrote:So far, I've never ever seen a Transformer that only has a robot mode without his or her alt-mode. If that's the case, then this robot wouldn't be called a Transformer now, would he?

Alpha Trion was never shown with an Alt-Mode...

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:42 pm

FINALLY! I CAN RESPOND!!!!

psj333 wrote:But according to many different source, everybody is speculating that Airachnid's alt-mode is most likely some type of aircraft, whether helicopter or not, since part of her name is Air and not Ar, since spiders don't fly.

Speculation =/= truth.

psj333 wrote:As for Saberblade, you said that Airachnid is a spider-humanoid. I strongly disagree with that.

I meant as of right now! She is currently a humanoid spider. She came to Earth in that form and is still in the form. I did not say that she will stay in that form, but I see no reason for her to change it. Being the kind of person that she is, she has no reason to assume an Earthen disguise.

psj333 wrote:First of all, there are no Predacons in Transformers: Prime as of yet.

I never said she was a Predacon. Predacons are not the only Decepticons and turn into animals.

However, a production sheet for Airachnid placed a Beast Wars Predacon symbol next to her name. Make of that what you will.

psj333 wrote:Secondly, Airachnid is a Decepticon, which means that Airachnid is a robot.

I was referring to her altmode being a spider/humanoid hybrid.

psj333 wrote:Lastly, it's impossible that Airachnid did not have an alt-mode, whether beast or vehicle,

She HAS an altmode. She walks on her spider legs in her altmode, and then walks on normal bipedal legs in her Robot Mode. She just spent more time in her altmode than she did in her Robot Mode in the episode.

psj333 wrote:but in my knowledge, every robot in the Transformers universe must have their own alt-mode to transform into, which is why these robots got their Transformers trademark name from. Otherwise, they wouldn't be called Transformers now, would they?

What about Action Masters?

And, no, I am not saying that Airachnid is an Action Master (she is not). Airachnid has a Robot Mode and a humanoid/spider-mixed altmode.

psj333 wrote:Therefore, I'm certain that Airachnid did indeed has an alt-mode, although we still don't know which one. If you still don't agree with me, then please feel free to comment below and tell me about what's right about it.

I've said it again and again. The form that has her walking on her spider legs is her altmode, and the form in which she walks on two regular legs is her Robot Mode. She was briefly seen in her Robot Mode at least two times in the episode.

by **Scourgescream** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:24 am

Shadowman wrote:
Alpha Trion was never shown with an Alt-Mode...

To be fair, that doesn't mean he didn't have one

News Credits: 5 · by **Rodimus2006** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:04 am

Alpha Trion has never had an Alt-Mode in any of the series he was thier mentor thier creator and advisor from the Key To Vector Sigma he merged with and OP uses the Key to cummincate with AT for advice.

AT was also the reason they beat the Quints in G1 and also he created OP and Elita-1 then later helped with the Aerieal Bots.

I hope we get to see AT & Elita-1 in Prime.

by **psj333** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:50 am

Shadowman, if you really think that her spider/humanoid alt-mode is her alt-mode, then let me ask you this: It is also possible that Airachnid may also have a vehicle mode as well. If that is the case, then the question for you is are there any Transformers that have a combination of both vehicle and beast alt-modes? If so, name them.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:45 am

psj333 wrote:Shadowman, if you really think that her spider/humanoid alt-mode is her alt-mode, then let me ask you this: It is also possible that Airachnid may also have a vehicle mode as well.

Not necessarily. She may not have a vehicle mode, just a spider-mode. (Different from her spider-legs mode)

psj333 wrote:If that is the case, then the question for you is are there any Transformers that have a combination of both vehicle and beast alt-modes? If so, name them.

Anyone in Beast Wars who went Transmetal.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:20 am

Rodimus2006 wrote:Alpha Trion has never had an Alt-Mode in any of the series he was thier mentor thier creator and advisor from the Key To Vector Sigma he merged with and OP uses the Key to cummincate with AT for advice.

AT was also the reason they beat the Quints in G1 and also he created OP and Elita-1 then later helped with the Aerieal Bots.

I hope we get to see AT & Elita-1 in Prime.

Shattered Glass Alpha Trion definitely had an altmode. Why, he even had a full transformable toy! And, he's slaggin' evil and murderously crazy. :KREMZEEK:

psj333 wrote:If that is the case, then the question for you is are there any Transformers that have a combination of both vehicle and beast alt-modes? If so, name them.

In addition to the Transmetals (what Shadowman said), there's also:

G1 Sky-Lynx's "dino" mode contains many pieces of his space shuttle mode
G1 Sixshot's secret seventh "Wingwolf" mode consists of features from his other six modes, most prominently his wolf head and jet wings
Any of RiD Megatron/Galvatron's vehicular altmodes (each one contains elements of his dragon and bat beast modes)
Energon Scorponok was really a large treaded truck with two giant shovels and a crane attached to it just to make it resemble a scorpion
Cybertron Scrapmetal is a "spider-tank"
Movie Scorponok is a scorpion made up of military vehicle parts (such as the engine of Blackout's helicopter altmode)