Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store
![Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "MP-44S OPTIMUS PRIME Transformers Masterpiece G1 Takara Tomy Hasbro 2024 New"](https://www.seibertron.com/images/ebay/masterpiece/mp-44s-optimus-prime-hasbro/t-DSC05884.jpg)
You know what would be awesome
An Elita-1 that can turn into a truck and bench-press Optimus Prime.
Can you imagine how happy I would be
[heavy breathing]
I think it's important to remember that Mairghread Scott was asked to give her opinion on Arcee's origin. Which she gave. And it's not even a new opinion either: Spotlight Arcee has been a controversial topic of conversation for a long time. Intentional or not, it does say something about gender - the female gender in particular - and it's been marked as offensive by many fans.
Here's a question: are any of you who disagree with Mairghread Scott's comments female? Because your own gender can have a huge impact on how you perceive the entire Transformer gender issue. (Male privilege: look it up.) A lot of guys do not seem to see Transformers being referred to by the male pronoun, Arcee's story, or the lack of female Transformers as a big deal, but ask female fans and you'll hear a different story. Why? Because this is something that directly affects us. Because stories don't exist in a vacuum, they reflect our society. Even the male-pronoun-as-default says something about society and our place in it. It's not something many people, even women, are aware of, but it's inevitable. Talk about Arcee being mad, not because she was turned into a woman, but because she was experimented upon, ignores the fact that the experiment was about turning her into a woman and especially considering she's the only woman she carries all the burden of what it means to be female means in the story. She's the only Transformer whose story has something to say about the female gender and also, the purpose of the story was to introduce a character who was specifically female. If it was just about a character who was the unwilling subject of an experiment, they could have left it at that and ignored gender entirely. That wasn't the case.
Following upon that, a word on "gender politics". The term has been bandied around like it's a new thing, now that more female Transformers are being introduced into IDW, but it isn't. Intentionally or not, it has always been a part of Transformers, since the very first moment female Transformers were introduced in the cartoon or perhaps even before that. Cartoons say something about gender due to male characters on avarage outnumbering female characters three-to-two or more (this is a fact, look it up). They say something about gender by having only one female character (Arcee) in a cast of guys (also known as "the Smurfette Principle"). They say something about gender by having female characters be seperate from the main, male cast (Chromia and gang). It says something about gender when Bob Budiansky wants Ratchet as a female character and is told "no, this is a boy's series - no females allowed". It might not be intended as such, it might not be noticible (especially if it doesn't affect you) because we're so used to it, but gender politics is always there. It's always been a subtle part of the status quo. It doesn't suddenly get implemented because IDW/Hasbro/Scott realise there's a significant female audience (as well as a large part of the existing male audience) which sees the lack of female representation in the comics as a problem and they want to address it. But it's interesting how gender politics only gets thrown around (as an accusation) when it's about the INclusion of female characters (particularly by a female writer), not about the EXclusion of them.
Here's the thing though: the only way gender politics would not have been a part of Transformers would have been if female characters had been included in the series, in equal measures, from the get-go, without the gender issue ever being addressed.
Va'al wrote:And again, male pronouns are used by default. Therefore introducing an element of gender in the representation of the characters, even if they do not identify with gender themselves (as characters).
In *no way* can anyone claim that introducing more female characters in a male-dominated franchise, universe, and brand is offensive to the male side of the fandom/creators. I'm sorry, but no, that is one thing that does not, and cannot hold. How is this not part of these other 'actual causes'? As Scott said herself, these comics do not exist in a vacuum. Nor does the brand, or the industry. It exists in a society that does distinguish, in a more or less informed manner, between different genders, or different points on the gender spectrum, including through language. And that is why, even though this incarnation of the chracters is 'genderless', the discussion must be had, is being had and needs a nudge in the right direction for full representation.
Va'al wrote:In other news:
You know what would be awesome
An Elita-1 that can turn into a truck and bench-press Optimus Prime.
Can you imagine how happy I would be
[heavy breathing]
(from http://mscottwrites.tumblr.com/ )
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Well, there's a difference between reading stories in a vacuum and stories in a vacuum, period. Stories don't happen in a vacuum - they are always a reflection of the society the writer lives in, whether that's intentional or not. It's not bad to want to read stories as an escapist something separate from everything else and enjoy it that way and I can understand that some fans do prefer that. However, that doesn't mean stories and their themes can't be discussed from a social perspective or that the social messages they send (whether deliberately so or not) aren't relevant.
If you're referring to politics/social commentary in the stories themselves, well, we've already had that in Megatron Origins and MTMTE. Far as I can see, all it did was provide more depth and detail to the work and made it more enjoyable, not less.
And I wouldn't let people's "gender politics" complaints worry you. I consider the Windblade mini to have huge positive implications for gender in Transformers, but that's outside discussion. I'm sure the comic itself will be entertaining and fun and not at all preachy.
Va'al wrote:But think of this: what voice does the main cast of RID or MTMTE have in your mind when you read the comics?
(And again, the fact that *these* comics have genderless characters is actually not a relevant point - see Sprite's comment below, and this one.)Well, there's a difference between reading stories in a vacuum and stories in a vacuum, period. Stories don't happen in a vacuum - they are always a reflection of the society the writer lives in, whether that's intentional or not. It's not bad to want to read stories as an escapist something separate from everything else and enjoy it that way and I can understand that some fans do prefer that. However, that doesn't mean stories and their themes can't be discussed from a social perspective or that the social messages they send (whether deliberately so or not) aren't relevant.
If you're referring to politics/social commentary in the stories themselves, well, we've already had that in Megatron Origins and MTMTE. Far as I can see, all it did was provide more depth and detail to the work and made it more enjoyable, not less.
And I wouldn't let people's "gender politics" complaints worry you. I consider the Windblade mini to have huge positive implications for gender in Transformers, but that's outside discussion. I'm sure the comic itself will be entertaining and fun and not at all preachy.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote::shock: Simon... Simon, no. No, Simon, why? Why must you do this? Why must you fan the flames further?
http://simonfurman.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/response-to-mairghread-scott/![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote::shock: Simon... Simon, no. No, Simon, why? Why must you do this? Why must you fan the flames further?
http://simonfurman.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/response-to-mairghread-scott/![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Dead Metal wrote:Sabrblade wrote::shock: Simon... Simon, no. No, Simon, why? Why must you do this? Why must you fan the flames further?
http://simonfurman.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/response-to-mairghread-scott/![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
Wow, that is a fantastic post he's quoting, exactly what I've been saying this whole time.
And he can have a response to it if he likes it, it might not have been her intent to offend him, but then again it wasn't his intent to offend anyone with his SL Arcee, yet people attack him for it.
And most of his responses to the responses are good and have a point.
Do I think Furman was trying to make a statement about human women with Arcee’s origins? No. In fact, the largest share of blame lies with the tokenization of women in the brand in general.
Va'al wrote:Can someone please point out how Scott was attacking Furman personally?
She is pointing out that, as a story, by itself, it might even work, and that she took a similar approach to her own. Then, she illustrates what points, to her, as a reader and fellow writer, felt offensive, and I quote:Do I think Furman was trying to make a statement about human women with Arcee’s origins? No. In fact, the largest share of blame lies with the tokenization of women in the brand in general.
Furman, in response (and note: we're not arguing that he's 'not allowed' to respond, but what he said), makes a value judgement about Scott's professionalism. Further, and this is my biggest concern, he is *telling* readers how they should *interpret* a story that he wrote. If they, the readers, interpret the story in any other way, they are *wrong*.
That is not how storytelling works. At all.
(And just because some readers, women included, did not find Spotlight: Arcee problematic, does not mean that it wasn't to others, whatever the intention behind it.)
Va'al wrote:
Va'al wrote:I keep track of everyone. Backwards.
There are atandarfs to maintain.
LOST Cybertronian wrote:Hey, If Mindmaster survived then you should do just fine.
Hero Alpha wrote:Now stupid, annoying "political correctness" is trying to jack up my Transformers universe, I wish people would just stop with PC crap.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
craggy wrote:Misogycons.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Return to Transformers Cartoons and Comics Forum
Registered users: Bing [Bot], EvasionModeBumblebee, Glyph, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], MSN [Bot], Optimus Eeyore