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Randomhero wrote:You obviously hasn't read the dozens and dozens of posts about roller and terminus. A lot of people wanted to know about roller and terminus.
So you're a bit disappointed about being surprised? So what if things arnt the same as how you envision it. It means you're not right and you get a surprise.
I thought for a year Proteus was Tarn and was damn certain he was only for that to be the complete opposite. I was wrong and couldn't be happier that I wa wrong because that means this book continues to be fresh and unpredictable.
ricemazter wrote:::Snip::
ricemazter wrote:Randomhero wrote:You obviously hasn't read the dozens and dozens of posts about roller and terminus. A lot of people wanted to know about roller and terminus.
So you're a bit disappointed about being surprised? So what if things arnt the same as how you envision it. It means you're not right and you get a surprise.
I thought for a year Proteus was Tarn and was damn certain he was only for that to be the complete opposite. I was wrong and couldn't be happier that I wa wrong because that means this book continues to be fresh and unpredictable.
Again, this is just my personal opinion on things, but I should probably explain my thoughts a bit more. Again, again, Roberts really, really likes to set things up so that they can payoff later, but with him it's too much of a good thing when you're trying to conclude a narrative. I know that this isn't really a conclusion to the series, but for this particular story and in terms of things leading to this story both Roller and Terminus played their part. I don't begrudge anyone for wanting to know what happened to them, and I won't deny that you could something interesting with their fates later. However, previously terminus showed up in a single issue. Here he acts as a motivator for Megatron's later worldview, not to compromise or give in to authority. Sometimes, change must be forced, by force.His disappearance, and the fact that no one cares about it due to him being some crippled miner, drives this point home to Megatron and the audience. Beyond that, he only just shows up now to diffuse Megatronand to refute what I saw, in my opinion, as positive character development for Megatron. It showed that, deep down, he hasn't really learned anything about real restraint or moderation, and is resorting to binary extremes, again. That said, it's fine for a character to have flaws, but they need to develop eventually or address it in some way.
With Roller, the vast majority of everything going on with him has been a red herring for Tarn. He feels the need to latch onto a charismatic authority figure, Optimus then Megatron, and is insecure about his ability to please said authority. He bemoans the fact that he doesn't have a particularly special ability, and resorts to an addictive performance enhancer to compensate. He's billed as one of Prime's and Ratchet's original friends. He has a similar silhouette and build to Tarn. He disappears, and no one knows what happened to him. Tarn also attaches to a charismatic figure, has a highly addictive personality, uses performance enhancers, was a member of Optimus' circle at one point, and has memories that could feasibly have been Roller's. No one save Megatron knows who he really is, and a guy with his build as well as reason to hate Optimus' and crew for leaving him hasn't been seen in millions of years. Basically, in my view, Roller's position in the story has been solely to mislead the reader, and to counter it with the actual reveal. Him showing up now doesn't add much to this arc, except for the audience to go "What!?" when he appears right before Tarn's mask is removed. From a narrative perspective, knowing what we know now, his disappearance served its purpose. It would almost be better ifhe didn't show up, drama wise, because it really slaps the audience in the face with the reveal while I think more subtlety would have been better.
If you really think about, Terminus' and Roller's appearance now and in this way means that their original departure means less. There isn't any mystery anymore. For instance, we can't have a dramatic reveal to the effect that the circumstances behind Roller's and Terminus' disappearance are actually part of a larger plot by the Cog or something. We know they were just plucked from the time stream by the Necrobot. Interesting stories about why they were missing can't be told now in a future arc. For people who really wanted to know what happened, this can't be the kind payoff you wanted. It's just not an interesting twist.
In terms of the story confirming to my expectations, you have a point. The writer doesn't owe me anything. But I can be disappointed. To elaborate, there's a difference between the plot and character development. I'm not necessarily irritated that Megatron didn't do the exact thing plot wise that I would have wanted, but I am miffed that his character, at the conclusion of the arc, didn't actually progress entirely. He's still stuck in extremes. Unless of course, the writer addresses this character flaw where another character goes "you haven't changed!" That could be interesting on its own, but it isn't addressed. Instead it feels like all the development the character has gone through is sort of wasted. You can play with my expectations, fine. I actually like the fact that Tarn isn't Roller. It's a good twist that drives home a point to that character, given the unsubtle way Roberts delivers it. I didn't expect Ravage to die either. I won't say I necessarily liked it, but it was emotional and works well enough.
Second Rant over, Primus this chain is long.
TLDR, the twist with Tarn not being Roller isn't the issue. The issue is that Roller and Terminus, having served their narrative purpose for this particular story, appear in such a way that either doesn't do much for the arc or regresses character development. For future arcs, this also means there can't be a better payoff. In my view, it would have been better for them to show up after dying of the light is over so we can have a better, impactful revelation than this.
Like Megatron, it isn't perfect, but there's a great deal to love despite a few rough edges.
Tigertrack wrote:When he tells Megatron not to change back with the fresh new Decepticon charm symbol on his chest, does he mean don't change back to a Decepticon, or don't change back to being an Autobot again???
Thoughts? I'm pretty sure I know what I think it means... don't change back to Decepticon Megatron of recent old, but I think it was left to be a little ambiguous purposely.
MrBlack wrote:To be honest, Roberts doesn't always do endings well. The final issues of major arcs tend to be rushed, and they don't always answer all the audiences questions.
The thing is, one thing Roberts is good at is delivering a really good epilogue to each story. The prose story at the end of "Remain in Light" and issue #40 both provide much more satisfying conclusions than the true final endings of each story arc.
The real problem I see is that I am not sure if we are going to get that, unless Roberts plans to include an epilogue in the Titans Return tie-ins. Otherwise, I have a feeling that Lost Light #1 is going to start in media res, and we'll have to wait to see how the cliffhanger in this issue was resolved.
Randomhero wrote:
But they are part of the story as a whole. They appeared in season 2 and the dying of the light became something of a pay off to almost everything that happened in season 2 with the exception of the Cog Faction.
As for Tarns reveal, it's heavily implied that his it wasn't a mystery to the universe much like how the mysterious senator was only a mystery to the audience. Tarns identity was implied to be public knowledge hence why there was no jaw dropping panel of the crew watching. Only velocity asked who he was and then got interrupted by Roller walking in. That's Not just roller saying "that's not important" that's Roberts saying it's not important. Roberts has spent all day on Twitter answering questions and one question he answered was "tarn is Tarn 'nuff said" who tarn used to be was never suppose to be a mystery. We made it a big deal and because Roberts was hounded for 3 years "I bet this guy is tarn!" or "ROLLER IS TARN I KNOW IT IS!" He messed with us. That what Roberts does. I've said every time someone brought up the argument and used issue 38 with all the red herrings that roller is Tarn that it's all just to throw us off and tossing blatant clues is not how he writes. And that's exactly what happened.
People have been blowing the DJD up for years and expected this grand reveal when it never was suppose to be. That's just my opinion but apparently that's also how the guy who created the character also waned it to be.
ricemazter wrote:Randomhero wrote:
But they are part of the story as a whole. They appeared in season 2 and the dying of the light became something of a pay off to almost everything that happened in season 2 with the exception of the Cog Faction.
As for Tarns reveal, it's heavily implied that his it wasn't a mystery to the universe much like how the mysterious senator was only a mystery to the audience. Tarns identity was implied to be public knowledge hence why there was no jaw dropping panel of the crew watching. Only velocity asked who he was and then got interrupted by Roller walking in. That's Not just roller saying "that's not important" that's Roberts saying it's not important. Roberts has spent all day on Twitter answering questions and one question he answered was "tarn is Tarn 'nuff said" who tarn used to be was never suppose to be a mystery. We made it a big deal and because Roberts was hounded for 3 years "I bet this guy is tarn!" or "ROLLER IS TARN I KNOW IT IS!" He messed with us. That what Roberts does. I've said every time someone brought up the argument and used issue 38 with all the red herrings that roller is Tarn that it's all just to throw us off and tossing blatant clues is not how he writes. And that's exactly what happened.
People have been blowing the DJD up for years and expected this grand reveal when it never was suppose to be. That's just my opinion but apparently that's also how the guy who created the character also waned it to be.
Yes, they are part of the story as a whole. My argument is that they played their part in said story and that they didn't need to be brought back for the conclusion. If they weren't brought back, that's a page or two Robert's can use to tighten the chronic pacing problems this series has had for a while now. That's in addition to my personal thoughts on Megatron's character development which, in my opinion, Terminus' halts. I understand that a lot of other people like him more as an extreme demagogue and don't care to see something else. Fine. I would have preferred that the character arc be completed with him finding a middle ground that's a nice bow string to tie up his arc with. I would have been happy if Robert's wrote the story so that Megatron is able to somehow get out of the situation while sticking to his pacifism. It wouldn't have been my ideal arc, but it would have been a completed arc. I would have been happy if somehow it was pointed out that Megatron is stuck between two extremes in the story by another character or something. It wouldn't have necessarily been an arc, but it would have been an examination of his character flaws.
I completely agree with you that Tarn not being Roller is a positive thing. That's what Roberts is going for. The point is, it doesn't matter who Tarn is. To that end, he plays with audience expectations which I can also appreciate. However, consequently Roller's entire purpose since Days of Deception has been a red herring since Roberts kept dropping false hints. Him showing up now doesn't do anything for dying of the light, except to hammer in the nail. If Roberts really wanted to stick to his "who cares about Tarn?" guns, it would've been better for him to just have Megatron reveal Glitch without sticking Roller into the scene. Roller doesn't need to be there for us to get the point.
Additionally, because both characters are brought back in the way they are, there's no impact. That's something Roberts could have saved for the next arc, so we can
read an interesting story about the disappearance.
Randomhero wrote:
Well they did need to come back though because they were part of the necrobots story in the end. Personally yes I do think it's wasn't necessary but if this is it for the necrobot then they did kinda need to pop up I guess. Best I can'conclude is while they did show up at the end they-more terminus than roller- will be very important in third season
ricemazter wrote:Randomhero wrote:
Well they did need to come back though because they were part of the necrobots story in the end. Personally yes I do think it's wasn't necessary but if this is it for the necrobot then they did kinda need to pop up I guess. Best I can'conclude is while they did show up at the end they-more terminus than roller- will be very important in third season
Yeah, it really seems to be that Robert's has the need to tie up every loose end he makes. I would argue that Nightbeat confronting the necrobot in the first place about his passive approach was enough for that character, and the fact that he elected to warn the lost light crew instead of allowing the djd to corner them was enough to prove that he had changed. But, because of that Roberts itch, he finds a convenient way to connect the two and kill two birds with one stone, even if it doesn't jell with pacing.
Personally, it would've been cool to bring Roller and Terminus back once season 3 actually starts. Then their disappearance could be explored in terms of the larger plot, and not resolved in a page of exposition.
Red herrings are fine too. Roberts can be clever, but he has a tendency to get too clever. His meta commentary always kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
I think they were responsible for the events at the ending, but I didn't say anything about a Geobomb. Nightbeat is smart but doesn't have a perfect track record either. Every mention of them before says that they're red, and what's seen at the end is blue.MemphisR56 wrote:So you're saying that the Galactic Council was responsible for the Geo Bomb?
Hehe, thanks! I will say though, Pol Pot's alt mode left a lot to be desired. P-38s or rad tanks/T-Rexes/Space Plane Things are much better.Quint wrote:And Pol Pot was a cheeky scamp.
A well-thought analysis, otherwise; something of an epitaph. Kudos
I'm quite expecting that. Alternately, something along the way in 56, 57, or Revolution alludes to what went on at least indirectly. Worst case scenario: spoiler by solicit.MrBlack wrote:I have a feeling that Lost Light #1 is going to start in media res
I'm with you on this. Did I want a super cool story about Roller's descent into madness and maybe even a later redemption arc if he were a) actually Tarn and b) Tarn was not killed off? Yes, but that's not what the writer wanted or planned, so I've just got to deal with it.Randomhero wrote:I guess what I mean to say is, if anyone is upset about tarns identity not being what they expected or it not being a big page reveal of his face, kinda get over it.
Kurona wrote:
Woah.
It's also kinda funny reading all the responses to them that say they're totally and utterly wrong and that Roller's not that obvious so it has to be him
I liked your review very much, but with this opinion I disagree wholeheartedly.ScottyP wrote:The Death of Optimus Prime, which ushered in what has arguably been the best long-form run of Transformers comics in history
Noideaforaname wrote:The planet mold thing is weird because Cybertron's got to be the least possible object to make out of a single cast. It's got so many layers and deep trenches reaching the very core and all these tall spindly spires, and basically everything else that could go wrong.
Noideaforaname wrote:The planet mold thing is weird because Cybertron's got to be the least possible object to make out of a single cast. It's got so many layers and deep trenches reaching the very core and all these tall spindly spires, and basically everything else that could go wrong.
The Skids of the past is quick to identify the hand-shaped hot spot as "the hand of Primus, pressing the planet into shape"—further evidence of the young theoretician's religiosity, previously evidenced back in issue #11 by the Matrix tattoo on his cheek, still visible in this issue.
Noideaforaname wrote:That begs the question, though, what does "natural" Cybertron look like? Is it a kind of opposite to Earth, with the vast majority of the visible planet being artificial and only a tiny fraction being how it was originally?
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