The Energon Pub

Amelie wrote:Actually, I seem to remember Hasbro stating that in order to release a Universe\Generations Thrust, Dirge and Thundercracker, they would have to be significantly different from the BotCon versions - which Thrust and Dirge certainly are.

Yeah. They're the Heneki releases...which were just as, if not more, expensive than the Botcon sets.

Its about time- what 2-3 yrs later
while there at it maybe they should give
us some other seekers of different color schemes
and give us trailbreaker/hoist

metaphorge wrote:

Darth Bombshell wrote:

metaphorge wrote:Hasbro won't be releasing a Henkei Sunstorm.

They also said they wouldn't release Dirge, Thrust and Thundercracker in retail.

The people who work at Hasbro are liars. Simple as.

I haven't seen chromed guns (or any of the other hallmarks of a Henkei release) on any Hasbro releases of the seeker mold, and seriously doubt we will, so I stand by my statement.

just as a quick question: did you forget about Generation Thrust's chrome cockpit? just saying since i believe the Henkei one had one

amcgrath929 wrote:

metaphorge wrote:

City Commander wrote:I really hope it's a classics mold Thundercracker. Then not only can everyone's seeker sets be completed, but also the mold can be laid to rest.

Still need a more G1 accurate Skywarp; for that matter, I wouldn't mind terribly if they revisited Ramjet with a more G1-specific scheme, since both the Classics and Henkei versions way missed the boat on that count.

For a more accurate Skywarp and Ramjet I'd check out eBay for the henkei version or a reprolabels sticker sheet. I wouldn't hold my breath on a re-release of those figures any time soon.

I've got Henkei Skywarp (and Thundercracker and Starscream) and Classics Ramjet; I'm perfectly happy with the Henkei versions of Skywarp and Thundercracker, but I find the bright red wings and white fists on Henkei Ramjet to be a less desirable deviation from the G1 scheme as the striping scheme on the Classics figure.

Darth Bombshell wrote:

Amelie wrote:Actually, I seem to remember Hasbro stating that in order to release a Universe\Generations Thrust, Dirge and Thundercracker, they would have to be significantly different from the BotCon versions - which Thrust and Dirge certainly are.

Yeah. They're the Heneki releases...which were just as, if not more, expensive than the Botcon sets.

You looked at the Henkei and Generations releases side-by-side? LOTS of differences there. I passed on Henkei Thrust and Dirge because of that crazy striping, especially on Dirge.

Galvatrondestroyer wrote:just as a quick question: did you forget about Generation Thrust's chrome cockpit? just saying since i believe the Henkei one had one

Fair enough; I always forget Generations Thrust has it because it's so hard to see through the yellow-tinted cockpit. He certainly lacks chrome on the launchers.

I found out about this on FB and preordered both

Sigh, and the prices of 07 Bugbite and Dreadwing increase dramatically...

*Hoping for a re-release of Skywarp...*

Its a classic mold. Kapowtoys has a pic up with the preorder.

http://www.kapowtoys.co.uk/product_info ... nk4aegioh0

dangerous precedent that hasbro is setting.

really questions the value of any exclusives they will offer, or allow TFCC to offer.

in the end, the retail release cracker will look crappy compared to botcon cracker. Just like thrust and dirge do, but I don't think that is enough to separate it from what was 'supposed' to be an exclusive.

there, I said it, let the retail transformer collectors crap on me like only they can.

oh nuts, just made an order with TFsource, which means p&p costs. should have waited for kapow.

damn my eagerness!

Darth Rodimus wrote:Its a classic mold. Kapowtoys has a pic up with the preorder.

http://www.kapowtoys.co.uk/product_info ... nk4aegioh0

This image is of Botcon Thundercracker.

Sid Burn wrote:dangerous precedent that hasbro is setting.

really questions the value of any exclusives they will offer, or allow TFCC to offer.

in the end, the retail release cracker will look crappy compared to botcon cracker. Just like thrust and dirge do, but I don't think that is enough to separate it from what was 'supposed' to be an exclusive.

there, I said it, let the retail transformer collectors crap on me like only they can.

I'm just glad the constant complaining MIGHT finally cease. I'm neither a retail, online or Botcon elitist. I buy and display what I feel looks best for any given TF line. Having said that, BC TC is a decent looking figure at best. When he was our only option I dug him like crazy. Then Henkei TC rolled around and I liked him better so I got him too. I'm willing to see if Hasbro's version will outdo the current champ. I thought Generations Dirge and Thrust were better than the BC or Henkei versions and boxed the BC versions up after getting the Hasbro ones. Time will tell. As for any precedents involved, all of those mentioned have been exclusive to Botcon attendees for 3 years now. I would have been ok if it was a limited time exclusivity of a year or so. How they've managed to wait this long to get to him kinda baffles me. Long story short, corporate entity will always do what it wants if a guaranteed return is involved, despite what its offshoot businesses might have to say about it.

Sid Burn wrote:dangerous precedent

This is hardly a big deal.

*oops double post*

metaphorge wrote:
Fair enough; I always forget Generations Thrust has it because it's so hard to see through the yellow-tinted cockpit. He certainly lacks chrome on the launchers.

Probably because the chrome on the launchers is ugly.

Kewl news! I already have Henkei TC, but this is good for those who don't.

(I'm also suprised and impressed by the lack of poop hitting the fan in this thread. Has the fandom moved on? Let's hope so)

It Is Him wrote:

Sid Burn wrote:dangerous precedent

This is hardly a big deal.

in the grand scope of your and my life, of course it isnt a big deal, no debate there, these are toys after all. Not posting on a world events forum, posting on a TF forum.

However, I for one, am not super thrilled about a slightly inferior (in my opinion) version of an exclusive I purchased becoming available for $10 at walmart. This has been talked to death of course, but in the end, this is a first for the fandom, botcon exclusives finding their way (in some form) to domestic retail shelves.

I dont think its a great move overall for the TF collectors community. You can fill in the default argument for this.

and when I said, 'retail only collector's,' I am referring to those who only collect through retail and complain when something isn't down the street from them at their local big box store.

this is the group who was the most annoying when this entire issue began.

Botcon is supposed to be special, exclusives being a big part of that. Starting to feel less so... either way, I was only commenting on this moment in the fandom, it is signicant, even if the fire behind the argument has long died out.

kirbenvost wrote:(I'm also suprised and impressed by the lack of poop hitting the fan in this thread. Has the fandom moved on? Let's hope so)

*points at the crying Botcon elitists and those who bought the KO and laughs*

Better?

Sid Burn wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

Sid Burn wrote:dangerous precedent

This is hardly a big deal.

in the grand scope of your and my life, of course it isnt a big deal, no debate there, these are toys after all.

However, I for one, am not super thrilled about a slightly inferior (in my opinion) version of an exclusive I purchased becoming available for $10 at walmart. This has been talked to death of course, but in the end, this is a first for the fandom, botcon exclusives finding their way to domestic retail shelves.

I dont think its a great move overall for the TF collectors community.

and when I said, 'retail only collector's,' I am referring to those who only collect through retail and complain when something isnt down the street from them at their local big box store.

this is the group who was the most annoying when this entire issue began.

What you say is totally fair. But Thundercracker is one toy out of a hundred Botcon/TFCC exclusives, and even then, he should never have been an exclusive in the first place.

By the time Generations TC is released, it'll have been nearly four years since the Botcon version. Two years since the Henkei version. And about 4-5 months since the authentic KOs starting cropping up (which I think are bigger issue as far as killing the value of your exclusives). I say it's about time he popped into retail.

Secondly, shopping at retail (like I do) doesn't make a collection less special.

It Is Him wrote:

Sid Burn wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

Sid Burn wrote:dangerous precedent

This is hardly a big deal.

in the grand scope of your and my life, of course it isnt a big deal, no debate there, these are toys after all.

However, I for one, am not super thrilled about a slightly inferior (in my opinion) version of an exclusive I purchased becoming available for $10 at walmart. This has been talked to death of course, but in the end, this is a first for the fandom, botcon exclusives finding their way to domestic retail shelves.

I dont think its a great move overall for the TF collectors community.

and when I said, 'retail only collector's,' I am referring to those who only collect through retail and complain when something isnt down the street from them at their local big box store.

this is the group who was the most annoying when this entire issue began.

What you say is totally fair. But Thundercracker is one toy out of a hundred Botcon/TFCC exclusives, and even then, he should never have been an exclusive in the first place.

By the time Generations TC is released, it'll have been nearly four years since the Botcon version. Two years since the Henkei version. And about 4-5 months since the authentic KOs starting cropping up (which I think are bigger issue as far as killing the value of your exclusives). I say it's about time he popped into retail.

Secondly, shopping at retail (like I do) doesn't make a collection less special.

Seriously, this shouldn't even be a concern, thinking that someone who can only buy stuff at retail shouldn't have a shot at something is very elitist.

I bought the Henkei Skywarp and Thundercracker when they came out and I don't care that a slightly different version of Thundercracker for less is going to be available.
Looking at the Generations Thrust, I believe this TC will be like the henkei, just without the chrome on the launchers and a few less paint apps. And if it looks good I'll get it.

Seriously, this won't affect the value of either the BotCon or the henkei version, since you know the henkei version didn't effect the botCon version at all.

Because at the end of the day, it's a different deco with a different history behind it.

people like to throw around the term elitist in the same way they would use rascist, but the fact of the matter is we are all elitists to some degree.
The elite products out there, especially in the TF community are the most valued to consumers and collectors (not talking about money here specifically, but that is also often the case.)

If this were not the case, no one would be importing united from japan when a slightly inferior version is available around the corner for next to nothing. But it is the case, preorders for united, just like they were for henkei are super hot.

I am unbelievably bored of people standing up for the "just as special" crowd.

To be an elite artist, musician, engineer, scientist, doctor, teacher, entrepreneur are all positive things. The best of the best as it were, and if hasbro is to remove the elite nature of its botcon exclusives, than botcon will cease to be the best of the best.

This being the case for the first time with the seekers, I am disappointed. It takes some of the magic out of botcon for me. How can the TFCC expect people to get excited about traveling to botcon, lining up for exclusive (elite) items when there is the possibility that it might be on shelves for pennies down the road.

Those who disagree need to look at the flip side of the argument, how will hasbro releasing botcon exclusive items at retail for pennies be good for botcon as a whole? The answer is it isn't, and I for one like botcon, I dont want to see it lose its magic.

other fields where being elite is a good thing: assassination

craggy wrote:other fields where being elite is a good thing: assassination

very true

Sid Burn wrote:collector's as a sub group are especially prone to "elitism,"
Why do you think people sold out both runs of tfcc counterpunch within 24 hrs?

Good mold, foolishly underestimated demands, I suppose.

Why are almost all Takara releases more popular than the hasbro versions amongst domestic collector's?

It is not because an elitist approach. If it were, those collectors would simply spit on everything Hasbro and collect just Takara figures. Takara simply makes better paintjobs sometimes.

The holy grail phenomenom, specifically items generally regarded as holy grails can be linked to elitism.
Botcon BW prequel Megatron ring any bells?

Holy grails can be mass-released products as well as limited items, for some, MP Optimus, Grimlock or Skywarp are the holy grails, for some, Armada Unicron.
My grail is a MIB Overlord, I love that figure, if it would be reissued for 10 cents, my first reaction wouldn't be to be sad (ZOMG, its price dropped 500 dollar!) - it would be to buy a ton of them.

Ideal convention exclusives are not worldwide loved characters, like the seekers were (in that case, Hasbro underestimated the demands BADLY, and when it realized this and made it available for a wider fandom, some botconists cry for their money), but interesting character repaints, remolds, like the G2 repaints or the sweeps.

I respect those who are happy for these wide releases despite having the Botcon figures, those are real transformers fans.
Those who are crying now are elitist posers, who looked at this news and then at the Botcon seekers they posess and made calcuations on how much estimated value was dropped on those figures... again.

Sid Burn wrote:How can crappy versions of the botcon seekers coming out at retail be good for botcon, the largest transformer show on earth?

You answer your own question with your description of what is finally being released to the general public (people like me).

If I had the money to participate in Botcon, I would expect only one thing from the exclusives: The best of quality.

There are many unique Botcon exclusives. Lot's of concepts have been put forth using and retooling molds to get members a version of something they want NOW, not down the road when Hasbro deems character and mold popularity profitable.

That's what you pay for at Botcon. You pay to have it NOW, whatever IT is.

If your reason for purchasing Botcon releases is to resell them later to make a profit, that's a chance you take.

If your reason for purchasing Botcon releases is to have something unique, you have that. And you even point out that in your opinion what we at retail are finally getting is a "crappy" version of what you shelled out money at Botcon to get NOW.

And just like you wanted something Botcon made available NOW, others want what Takara makes, in some cases because they too can get it NOW, and in some cases because they like the paint better than the Hasbro version.

As for KO, tell me you're not actually seriously complaining about knockoffs?

I have recently seen a number of KO reviews, in particular Seekers and City Commander armor. I would never consider purchasing a KO version, even if that's the only one available. They have no value to me. I see Optibotimus reviewing the KO Seekers, and his tone makes it clear that he truly does regret wasting time and money on them.

I am surprised to read and see similar QC issues with Takara Seekers.

As to what is good for Botcon, that's the biggest CONVENTION there is. It's up to Botcon to figure out what they can offer that will be unique to the collector world. Cornering the market on Seekers is very selfish in my mind. On the other hand, the G2 theme was brilliant. Do some in the general public (like myself) want G2 products on retail? Personally, I do not. But if others do, so what if Hasbro releases a "crappy" version of something from Botcon? It's not the Botcon version, you said so yourself. It is "crappy"!

And aside from what you GET from Botcon for going to Botcon that we (the general public) may never get or might have to wait for, you get the Botcon EXPERIENCE (it's a CONVENTION for goodness sake!). You get to sit in on panels I don't. I get to read about them, but I'm not there. You get to meet the people that make our hobby possible. I don't. I might get to meet them elsewhere, but it's not Botcon. You get workshops that no other convention offers. I'm not a kitbasher, but I'd love to attend the "build-a-bot" workshop. You get presentations of what's coming. You get to see prototypes and previews up close and personal (pictures don't do justice to the displays and presentations). You get to meet friends once a year and experience something only possible at Botcon. If that's not what Botcon is first and foremost about, then I don't know what the point of going is?

I'm done.

Chaoslock wrote:I respect those who are happy for these wide releases despite having the Botcon figures, those are real transformers fans.
Those who are crying now are elitist posers, who looked at this news and then at the Botcon seekers they posess and made calcuations on how much estimated value was dropped on those figures... again.

you are missing the entire argument, I have no issue with people getting their $10 'crackers.
I certainly could care less about the cost or resale value of any one transformer, botcon or otherwise.

what I WAS commenting on is the damage it does to botcon as a whole. There are a lot of fandoms that have nothing like botcon so it is a valuable thing to many TF fans.
This situation is bad for botcon, and for anyone who attended and enjoyed botcon as it sets a precendent for the future. We have a great situation between hasbro and the TFCC, I dont want to see it messed up.

do you know how it can get messed up? make botcon exclusives commonplace. There is a fine line between a successful convention and a big room full of dusty crap.

understand now?

FYI, silly statements about the definition of a real transformer fan are ridiculous and show your inability to present a full argument.

Bradimus wrote:You answer your own question with your description of what is finally being released to the general public (people like me).

If your reason for purchasing Botcon releases is to resell them later to make a profit, that's a chance you take.

If your reason for purchasing Botcon releases is to have something unique, you have that.

As for KO, tell me you're not actually seriously complaining about knockoffs?

Think you are a little hung up on the term "crappy" from my post. That is simply my opinion.
There are many who see no difference at all that would sway them.

What I am trying to paint for all of you is a situation where the TFCC cannot draw demand for their exclusives and therefore cannot fund their conventions the way they can now. Everything that makes botcon special costs money, it doesnt happen by magic. The venues alone...

I am not saying this is happening right now, hopefully it wont ever happen. But releasing those seekers at retail is setting the precedent. Every situation no matter how great or horrible is set off by one action.

If it does go that way, and the TF community no longer has botcon the way it was, it will be a shame.
get it?

(to check off the rest of what you said, I could care less about KOs, I dont sell items from my personal collection and the botcon seekers are certainly not unique any longer.)