The Energon Pub

GetterDragun wrote:

HalfOfMe wrote:And as for the Lamborghini argument, actually, many manufacturers DO allow for the production of kit-cars, basically cheap repros of classic body-styles.

They don't offer a cheap repro of a 570hp 12 cylinder engine now do they? There's also a different between a KO and mass producing an exclusive.

Hahaha, no, they don't. And as for people saying there SHOULDN'T BE exclusives, yeah, that's crap. Definitely part of the fun. Just like variant covers, for the sake of the comics analogy!

HalfOfMe wrote:Hahaha, no, they don't. And as for people saying there SHOULDN'T BE exclusives, yeah, that's crap. Definitely part of the fun. Just like variant covers, for the sake of the comic analogy!

Exactly. Yea this one exclusive is now a standard release. But exclusives are fun and saying there shouldn't be any is just silly.

HalfOfMe wrote:Hahaha, no, they don't. And as for people saying there SHOULDN'T BE exclusives, yeah, that's crap. Definitely part of the fun. Just like variant covers, for the sake of the comic analogy!

in this case it's more like DC Comics trade paperback collections. You buy the single issues when they first come out because you want to enjoy them, and you're not sure if, 4 years down the line they'll actually ever release a version you can walk into any bookstore or order off Amazon.

I'm just glad I can own a Classics Thundercracker for a reasonable price now. I feel for the Botconners, but they still do have an exclucive version of the guy.

GetterDragun wrote:

HalfOfMe wrote:The big comic book publishers re-release classic issues. Owners of the much more valuable original prints don't get all teary-eyed about it. The originals, just like your exclusives, will always be more valuable, both monetarily AND as a sentimental commodity. The same can be said of G1 molds. I'm proud of my originals, but just as happy to replace the ones that got destroyed when I was was a kid with current re-releases. AKA: Get over it, repros are a fact of life!

I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with people saying there shouldn't be exclusives because some one might not be able to afford one or they are too hard to get, exclusives are a fun part of collecting.

Where does he say there shouldn't be exclusives?

I'm not even saying there shouldn't be exclusives. I've actually argued for exclusives.

The issue with Thundercracker and Seekers in general is that they are mainstream characters with a mold ready to go. Hasbro could have released Thundercracker in the first Classics line with Starscream, Skywarp (stupid two-pack), and Ramjet. Because of Botcon and TFCC, Hasbro waited until after Takara to finally release the rest of the original Seekers in retail.

I'm all for exclusives that I will never purchase. People like exclusives. My issue, as well as HalfOfMe (I think) is that anyone thinks TFCC has a right to declare a mainstream character and mold as exclusive. There are other, better options. Sid Burn admitted the big mistake was TFCC and Botcon offering Seekers as exclusives to begin with because eventually Takara and later Hasbro were bound to give in to the large demand of Classics Seekers.

Sid Burn believes this sets a negative precedent. I disagree. We may never agree. But I support exclusives and as far as I can tell so does HalfOfMe.

Bradimus wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

HalfOfMe wrote:The big comic book publishers re-release classic issues. Owners of the much more valuable original prints don't get all teary-eyed about it. The originals, just like your exclusives, will always be more valuable, both monetarily AND as a sentimental commodity. The same can be said of G1 molds. I'm proud of my originals, but just as happy to replace the ones that got destroyed when I was was a kid with current re-releases. AKA: Get over it, repros are a fact of life!

I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with people saying there shouldn't be exclusives because some one might not be able to afford one or they are too hard to get, exclusives are a fun part of collecting.

Where does he say there shouldn't be exclusives?

I'm not even saying there shouldn't be exclusives. I've actually argued for exclusives.

The issue with Thundercracker and Seekers in general is that they are mainstream characters with a mold ready to go. Hasbro could have released Thundercracker in the first Classics line with Starscream, Skywarp (stupid two-pack), and Ramjet. Because of Botcon and TFCC, Hasbro waited until after Takara to finally release the rest of the original Seekers in retail.

I'm all for exclusives that I will never purchase. People like exclusives. My issue, as well as HalfOfMe (I think) is that anyone thinks TFCC has a right to declare a mainstream character and mold as exclusive. There are other, better options. Sid Burn admitted the big mistake was TFCC and Botcon offering Seekers as exclusives to begin with because eventually Takara and later Hasbro were bound to give in to the large demand of Classics Seekers.

Sid Burn believes this sets a negative precedent. I disagree. We may never agree. But I support exclusives and as far as I can tell so does HalfOfMe.

You support them as long as they are not a mainstream character of a mold you might want. Anyone can agree with something as long as it meets their conditions.

craggy wrote:

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:

Nemesis_Apoc wrote:You gotta be **** kidding me... What's the point of buying a Botcon exclusive, a toy that's only made for a specific few, when it's just going to be released at retail 3 and a half years later? I hate this.

You still have your exclusive. Hasbro's not busting into your house to steal it.

Thats what they want you to think.

YOU have your exclusive that's worth more than the retail, and Hasbro is not taking it from you. I don't know what you mean by "that's what they want you to think".
I don't have any BotCon exclusives. So, should I have to travel across the country just to buy a toy that is already too expensive to begin with? Or am I less of a fan because I didn't go to BotCon, so I don't deserve a figure of that character too? YOUR figure is not the same as the retail anyway, and it is worth much more. Be happy you have it. I personally hate the existence fo BotCon exclusives to begin with, because they are usually characters I want, but when they're BotCon exclusives, they are almost impossible to obtain.

It Is Him wrote:RUINED FOREVER
You're not the first to think so, and you won't be the last.

thanks for proving the lack of forethought in anything you say. I wont debate a brick wall.
get back to me when you have something constructive to add.

You are aware that hasbro and the TFCC/Funpub are separate entities right? the latter being a very small organization made up of just one family of approx 5 people and a few of their close friends. The people that put on botcon are not some giant corporation as you seem to think.

It Is Him wrote:Boy am I pissed that SE Overkill was released. That really ruined forever the customization classes at Botcon. Now no one wants to attend those. Funpub might as well pack their bags and move on to something bigger and better.

sarcasm is the last resort of someone without an argument. If you are actually comparing the 60 people who attend the customization class, and the thousands who purchase the exclusives at the con, not to mention the thousands who order then from outside the con than I cant even have a dialogue with you.

I was simply creating an open discussion about a unique moment in TF fandom, we have never had an exclusive become so popular that it spawned a retail version (at least not to my knowledge.)

I am not trying to force anything on you. You are free to buy a barrel of retail thundercrackers, not sure why you are this hostile but again, I wont waste my time debating a person who doesn't know how to construct a point or counterpoint.

I just have this to say

IT'S A TOY

If youre a collector you have a few copies of the same mold in other colour schemes. That doesnt make yours any more or less valuable. Its the same toy, just a different colour.

People are getting worked up over a frickin paint scheme. Hasbro is losing money to bootleggers, and theyve waited a long time before resorting to this. Fair play to them. It doesnt devalue a limited edition model at all, just means they wont sell for such insane prices on ebay so much.

Was megatron the one that sounded like he smoked 50 cygars a day?

Stumpybot wrote:I just have this to say

IT'S A TOY

If youre a collector you have a few copies of the same mold in other colour schemes. That doesnt make yours any more or less valuable. Its the same toy, just a different colour.

totally valid, I dont know why a few posters felt the need to jump up and down in anger over my post.

I never flamed anyone for buying this cracker, only wanted to debate the effect of something that hasnt happened in the fandom before.

Stumpybot wrote:I just have this to say

IT'S A TOY

If youre a collector you have a few copies of the same mold in other colour schemes. That doesnt make yours any more or less valuable. Its the same toy, just a different colour.

People are getting worked up over a frickin paint scheme. Hasbro is losing money to bootleggers, and theyve waited a long time before resorting to this. Fair play to them. It doesnt devalue a limited edition model at all, just means they wont sell for such insane prices on ebay so much.

Was megatron the one that sounded like he smoked 50 cygars a day?

That's a good point. People are in support of this general release (which is fine), but many of those were the same people who were buying the knockoffs. If you are going to be a "collector" then at least buy a legitimate product.

Whoa, can't keep up here. I just wanted to make fun of Scourge's nail polish. Craziness!

My final and only meaningful statement here today: I like Transformers.

Can someone tell me how you delete a post on this forum? All I can seem to do is edit.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

craggy wrote:

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:

Nemesis_Apoc wrote:You gotta be **** kidding me... What's the point of buying a Botcon exclusive, a toy that's only made for a specific few, when it's just going to be released at retail 3 and a half years later? I hate this.

You still have your exclusive. Hasbro's not busting into your house to steal it.

Thats what they want you to think.

[b]YOU have your exclusive[/b] that's worth more than the retail, and Hasbro is not taking it from you. I don't know what you mean by "that's what they want you to think".
I don't have any BotCon exclusives. So, should I have to travel across the country just to buy a toy that is already too expensive to begin with? Or am I less of a fan because I didn't go to BotCon, so I don't deserve a figure of that character too? YOUR figure is not the same as the retail anyway, and it is worth much more. Be happy you have it. I personally hate the existence fo BotCon exclusives to begin with, because they are usually characters I want, but when they're BotCon exclusives, they are almost impossible to obtain.

I do? Where is my Botcon set then? Cause I'm pretty sure I was parodying the "OMG My Botcon TC is worthless now and I was going to sell it to put my grand-daughter through college" crowd. I've never yet been to Botcon and don't have the kind of ridiculous money that it'd take to get the exclusives on the web afterwards. I'm happy about the Generations/Reveal the Grand Poohbah Thundercracker. It means I get to have one. Don't be going Ape-Face at me over other people's comments please.

GetterDragun wrote:You support them as long as they are not a mainstream character of a mold you might want. Anyone can agree with something as long as it meets their conditions.

Very true. You are a wise sage.

The reality is Hasbro is a business, and they look to make a profit. My guess is they make more profit if they release all the Seekers to retail. They did not realize at the time of the initial Classics release that this concept would become a mainstream success, so they boxed themselves into a corner by agreeing to the Seeker exclusives that put a lot of money into their pockets in the short term. They realized the mistake when they were bombarded with Seeker requests by the overwhelming majority of fans who have nothing to do with TFCC and Botcon.

Unfortunately, they have now ticked off a number of collectors who are willing to pay a lot of money for an exclusive release, but what were they supposed to do? Were they supposed to ignore the larger marketplace? Hasbro does not need TFCC and Botcon. That's the truth of the matter. I'm sorry, but that's fact. They do need the large retail market. And to top everything off, the Seeker mold is one of the simplest deluxe transformations they made, making it a good buy for kids. Hasbro decided to release the complete line with modifications that differed from the Botcon exclusives after waiting a few years to space them out.

Want further proof of how the market works? Ask how many people collect every variant of the Seekers, and I mean EVERY variant, not just the Hasbro and Takara Classics molds, but the other styles, too. Some people like to collect Optimus Prime in every form. Others like to collect Seekers. That's why the first movie Starscream was altered to represent every Seeker. And that movie mold is not the only one to be painted as other Seekers, as both Thrust and Dirge were given not-in-movie movie-verse molds. I think Hasbro did that to test if people wanted the Generations releases. The test must have worked in the Classics collectors favor because we got our coneheads, finally.

HalfOfMe and Craggy said it best:

craggy wrote:

HalfOfMe wrote:Hahaha, no, they don't. And as for people saying there SHOULDN'T BE exclusives, yeah, that's crap. Definitely part of the fun. Just like variant covers, for the sake of the comic analogy!

in this case it's more like DC Comics trade paperback collections. You buy the single issues when they first come out because you want to enjoy them, and you're not sure if, 4 years down the line they'll actually ever release a version you can walk into any bookstore or order off Amazon.

I've done both. I have both variants of the final issue of "HUSH," and I purchased the individual comics of "Bruce Wayne: Murderer" and "Fugitive" as they were released followed by the TPB's. That's just the way life rolls.

Wheeljack whore here. It's dripping down my leg.

craggy wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

craggy wrote:

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:

Nemesis_Apoc wrote:You gotta be **** kidding me... What's the point of buying a Botcon exclusive, a toy that's only made for a specific few, when it's just going to be released at retail 3 and a half years later? I hate this.

You still have your exclusive. Hasbro's not busting into your house to steal it.

Thats what they want you to think.

[b]YOU have your exclusive[/b] that's worth more than the retail, and Hasbro is not taking it from you. I don't know what you mean by "that's what they want you to think".
I don't have any BotCon exclusives. So, should I have to travel across the country just to buy a toy that is already too expensive to begin with? Or am I less of a fan because I didn't go to BotCon, so I don't deserve a figure of that character too? YOUR figure is not the same as the retail anyway, and it is worth much more. Be happy you have it. I personally hate the existence fo BotCon exclusives to begin with, because they are usually characters I want, but when they're BotCon exclusives, they are almost impossible to obtain.

I do? Where is my Botcon set then? Cause I'm pretty sure I was parodying the "OMG My Botcon TC is worthless now and I was going to sell it to put my grand-daughter through college" crowd. I've never yet been to Botcon and don't have the kind of ridiculous money that it'd take to get the exclusives on the web afterwards. I'm happy about the Generations/Reveal the Grand Poohbah Thundercracker. It means I get to have one. Don't be going Ape-Face at me over other people's comments please.

Next time, use emoticons or specify somehow when you aren't being serious, or else other people will do this too. Tone of voice doesn't work over text.
And even for those people who complain, there are those completionist collectors who are so picky with variations that will pay top dollar for BotCons.

emo-ticons? a new sub group?

nah, I think I'll post how and when I want to. If you can't follow a thread or forget who said what, it's really not my fault is it?

edit: of course, I thought my statement insanely hyperbolic and paranoid enough that it would be taken for granted that it was in jest, but of course, no-one has a sense of humour when it comes to this most serious business of buying plastic toys representing transforming alien robots.

Sid Burn wrote:

Stumpybot wrote:I just have this to say

IT'S A TOY

If youre a collector you have a few copies of the same mold in other colour schemes. That doesnt make yours any more or less valuable. Its the same toy, just a different colour.

totally valid, I dont know why a few posters felt the need to jump up and down in anger over my post.

I never flamed anyone for buying this cracker, only wanted to debate the effect of something that hasnt happened in the fandom before.

I hope you don't think I'm flaming you here. I certainly hope I'm not coming off that way. If I am, my apologies.

Bradimus wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:You support them as long as they are not a mainstream character of a mold you might want. Anyone can agree with something as long as it meets their conditions.

Very true. You are a wise sage.

The reality is Hasbro is a business, and they look to make a profit. My guess is they make more profit if they release all the Seekers to retail. They did not realize at the time of the initial Classics release that this concept would become a mainstream success, so they boxed themselves into a corner by agreeing to the Seeker exclusives that put a lot of money into their pockets in the short term. They realized the mistake when they were bombarded with Seeker requests by the overwhelming majority of fans who have nothing to do with TFCC and Botcon.

Unfortunately, they have now ticked off a number of collectors who are willing to pay a lot of money for an exclusive release, but what were they supposed to do? Were they supposed to ignore the larger marketplace? Hasbro does not need TFCC and Botcon. That's the truth of the matter. I'm sorry, but that's fact. They do need the large retail market. And to top everything off, the Seeker mold is one of the simplest deluxe transformations they made, making it a good buy for kids. Hasbro decided to release the complete line with modifications that differed from the Botcon exclusives after waiting a few years to space them out.

Want further proof of how the market works? Ask how many people collect every variant of the Seekers, and I mean EVERY variant, not just the Hasbro and Takara Classics molds, but the other styles, too. Some people like to collect Optimus Prime in every form. Others like to collect Seekers. That's why the first movie Starscream was altered to represent every Seeker. And that movie mold is not the only one to be painted as other Seekers, as both Thrust and Dirge were given not-in-movie movie-verse molds. I think Hasbro did that to test if people wanted the Generations releases. The test must have worked in the Classics collectors favor because we got our coneheads, finally.

I'm not disagreeing with this oh noble Oregano.

I'm disagreeing with the point of people arguing against exclusives at all, and add to that list buying Knockoffs as a collector.

craggy wrote:emo-ticons? a new sub group?

nah, I think I'll post how and when I want to. If you can't follow a thread or forget who said what, it's really not my fault is it?

edit: of course, I thought my statement insanely hyperbolic and paranoid enough that it would be taken for granted that it was in jest, but of course, no-one has a sense of humour when it comes to this most serious business of buying plastic toys representing transforming alien robots.

Hahahahahhaha

Really. Supposed to be "fun"! Okay, I've wasted enough time here. Be right there, Tuna Helper.

GetterDragun wrote:

Stumpybot wrote:I just have this to say

IT'S A TOY

If youre a collector you have a few copies of the same mold in other colour schemes. That doesnt make yours any more or less valuable. Its the same toy, just a different colour.

People are getting worked up over a frickin paint scheme. Hasbro is losing money to bootleggers, and theyve waited a long time before resorting to this. Fair play to them. It doesnt devalue a limited edition model at all, just means they wont sell for such insane prices on ebay so much.

Was megatron the one that sounded like he smoked 50 cygars a day?

That's a good point. People are in support of this general release (which is fine), but many of those were the same people who were buying the knockoffs. If you are going to be a "collector" then at least buy a legitimate product.

Totally against knockoffs. Not worth the money, as I stated in an earlier post. Plus, as pointed out, it's really bad for Hasbro, though I think people are more aware of the KO issues thanks to some YouTube reviews. I'd also like to point out that for the most part, the KO reviews I've seen have been from people who do purchase the real deal and just wanted to experiment or prove a point or missed out on something that is no longer available and took the risk. They all regret it. I can hear it in their voices during the reviews. Not that I'm at all surprised.

And just be clear, I also hope I'm not coming off as flaming you, GetterDragon. I try to use emoticons whenever possible to make that point and keep things lighthearted. If I did come off that way, my apologies. That goes to anyone I've responded to on this topic or any other. We are all here for the same reason, and I really do respect all opinions.

GetterDragun wrote:I'm not disagreeing with this oh noble Oregano.

I'm disagreeing with the point of people arguing against exclusives at all, and add to that list buying Knockoffs as a collector.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what does "oh noble Oregano" refer to?

Soooo glad i hesitated on getting that KO henkei TC!

GO HASBRO!

Woo-hoo! I'm trying to collect only Starscream and Thundercracker, just to avoid spending so much on the other Seekers. This one has been long-awaited.

Not too crazy about Wheeljack as a Tracks repaint, tho, but he looks good. I'll buy all 4 of these guys.

This thread is rather entertaining.

I'll be buying TC and WJ. Wheeljack needs som reprolabels love though.