The Energon Pub

I would like to set the record straight. I am an Atheist. Every time a Theist hears this, they get in my face about how unlikely it is that The Big Bang Theory is true or that human beings evolved from apes.

Atheism has NOTHING to do with a belief in Evolution or The Big Bang Theory. Atheism is the belief that there is not enough evidence to justify a belief in a God. That's all. We don't even completely dismiss the possibility that there is a God. We just say it's terribly unlikely.

Granted, a lot of Atheists believe in The Big Bang and the Theory of Evolution, but not all of them. An Atheist might find both theories a bit hard to swallow and just admit that he or she doesn't know where the people and the universe came from. Most Atheists are fine with admitting that they don't know everything.

So please, when somebody says that he or she doesn't believe in your God, and you want to start a debate, come up with a defense of your own beliefs instead of trying to poke holes in the beliefs the Atheist never professed to.

Thank you.

Why is it considered that evelothion and the big bang are unlikly, I mean there is more evidence for them two then for a God.

Dead Metal wrote:Why is it considered that evelothion and the big bang are unlikly, I mean there is more evidence for them two then for a God.

There's more evidence for a lot of things than for God. Unlikely doesn't mean "impossible" it means simply that it's not likely to happen.

I have an easier time following evolution. I've studied it for years, and it makes perfect sense to me. I find it likely that evolution is a fact insofar as species adapt into other species humanity included.

The Big Bang theory is a LOT of math. So it's harder for me to understand the theory. I don't want to take anything away from it, I just want to say that I'm not qualified to fully understand it and, to my limited understanding, it seems unlikely. That's not to say it's wrong or a hoax. I don't have a better explanation for how it happened and I don't have a problem with that. It do accept, however, that The Big Bang was far more likely to have been the cause of the creation of the universe billions of years ago than God doing it back in 4,000 BCE. Considering we have cave paintings dating back farther than 4,000 BCE, I think that's a pretty safe assumption.

I'm like you, Prof Smooth. I used to be a little religious, though, but it never felt genuine to me. Also, I had very bad experiences with an insanely religious parent. I've never "felt God" or been in his "presence". To me, when people thank God for their fortune or surviving a catastrophe, I think about those that didn't. What, God didn't feel like blessing them? And I don't follow that "sometimes God's answer is no" bit, either.

Also, when people die, how is that "calling them home"? What, a baby is killed, and God felt like "having another angel"? I think people say these things to help them cope with something that seems to make little sense. I understand that it helps some people to think that their loved ones are with Jesus, and I guess that's fine. A part of me wants to believe that so badly.

Evolution, though, come on! It's real, and nobody will tell me otherwise. Anything that challenges one's religious beliefs, though, will be tossed out. Or modified.

I'd just like to add to this - I'm a Christian, or just about, and I firmly believe in evolution. I don't understand the whole Big Bang thing 100%, so I'm still on the fence about it, really. But the timescale it presents is pretty believable to me.

The difference between an Atheist and a person who believes in God is that Atheists can admit that they don't know everything and are able to accept other ideas.

The problem with organized religion is that is unable to accept other theories.

I believe in evolution because it is a further step inline with adaptation which everyone believes and cannot debunk. If one species adapts for a very long time it becomes evolution.

Most religions are beat into you from childhood. Christianity as an example, you go to Sunday school for as long as your parents go to church. You then move right up into church. Next thing you know you're in school or talking to someone with different beliefs and the ideas from church are being debunked. You can either accept the theories and make them work within your religion or you can deny them and call anyone else a heretic.

The Catholic church has had issues with this for a long time. Their real problem is that they used the church as a political force and they don't want to loose power.

Baptist are the hardest to rationalize from the Christian sect. If their preacher doesn't say it, then it isn't true. (only from personal experience)

Most ppl that I know that are Jewish understand science pretty well. However, they believe in their version of creation.

I know very few ppl who study Islam. But I would assume(and you know about ppl who assume) that they are similar to Jewish believes. However, if you are raised in a society with limits on learning, then that would affect your perception. US Muslims vs Middle Eastern.

That last statement goes pretty much applies to everyone.

If you only learn what you family and church preach. Then you are limited and have a harder time accepting other theories. However, if you learn in a metropolitan setting and try to learn other ideas, then you would be more accepting of other theories. I grew up the country and hated it. I would read about anything I could get my hands on. I wanted to learn more than what was available.

However, a family can be as different as a society.

My mother is very religious, and also one of the smartest people I know. She easily belies in evolution and what stems from it. She says that humans can't understand the will of God and the key is your personal relationship with the holy trinity.

My bro is pretty hard line Christian. However, he's a clinical psychology, so he see's what Humans do to them selves.

My sis is agnostic. She believes in a higher power, but believes that any idea set forth by man is inherently flawed.

Me, well, as I get older, I wonder about things beyond me. However, I feel that when I die, I will feed the worms and that will be the end of me. I love science fiction and there may be other dimensions and stuff like that. But that's like religion. It's all science fiction.

The best part of me will be passed to my children. My knowledge and the ability to reason for yourselves. Learn to live within a society, stand firm for your beliefs, but don't knock someone else's. No one knows what's after this life until you die. The best way to die is knowing that you are ready, that's hard to do for many, however, I hope to die ready.

I agree with you DJDrew about the difference between an atheist and one who believes in god, except i dont like comparing the two as if they were two distinct groups..

theists are a group of people who belive in something that is supernatural. thats the common thread.

we dont have a word for people who DONT wear their underpants inside out. it kind of irks me that we have a word for those who DONT belive in the supernatural.

The main catalysts for my earliest suspicions about the truth of religion were clues that point to the fact that it is man made. i try not to bag religion because i think its ridiculous or anything like that. i prefer to point out the bits of religious law that only a man would think of or care about.

like, for example, the place of women in society, or who gets to have sex and who doesn't and with whom etc..

P.S. i didnt mean to liken religious people to those who wear their underpants inside out. we've all done it. [/quote]

Yea I two was once religious, I know how hardcore Catholics think cos one of em is my best friend.
I just found that sience is a lot more logic and gives better anweres to my questions.

I don't despise Religions ore the ppl that believe in them, except they go to OTT!

I mean just thinking that the church states having sex with your family is imoral, but stating that Adam started mankind with his clone[/]! Having [u] two sons !

So what did they do to start the 3rd generation of there family?

DJDrew&ScoobyDoo wrote:The problem with organized religion is that is unable to accept other theories.

Would it perhaps be fairer to say they are not allowed to accept other theories? Many in my family are religious also, i'm a bit soft on them because I dont want to see them struggle with a response.

that only goes for my family though..

Skippytron says,

theists are a group of people who belive in something that is supernatural. thats the common thread.

I think the "A" dropped from that statement. But I don't get it's content.

Are you saying that Atheists believe in the Supernatural?

If so, you are wrong. Atheists believe in nothing beyond science.

Agnostics believe in a higher power, but no Dogma(the theory of a religion) i.e. Catholisism, Baptist, Methodist, Judiasm, Islam, Buddhist, etc...

If that's not what you're saying, then, nevermind.

sorry, that was a pretty stupid letter to forget.

no, sorry, i didnt forget the 'a' at all. theist are a group of people who belive in the supernatural.

my point is, that i think it is silly to 'group' people who do not belive in the supernatural. to an atheist, its such an obvious thing not to belive, its barely even noted.

i dont need to go around telling people that i dont belive in the tooth fairy. i wouldnt want to give the tooth fairy believers the satisfaction that i might have even entertained the idea.

Sorry, my bad.

Oh no, here comes the tooth fairy....Arrhhh...

I have seen some f#cked up things in my life. However, I have never seen anything that couldn't be explained.

The hardest thing to see in life is the evil that Man does to fellow Man. It's sad.

damn straight it is. i'm currently reading Hitchens God Is Not Great, and other than what i've just read, i dont know alot of religious history. needless to say, i'm stunned.

he talks alot about the fact that when religion was more powerful in different parts of the world, (i.e. before newer, stronger science and global communication) it would simply kill non-followers. now, more persuasive tactics are required.

The spread of Catholicism was just pure evil. It was also very smart, by that I mean planned. Convert, kill, or bread the women to the religious men, therefore ensuring that the children will catholic.

The history of what the Spanish did to South America, not to mention the Inquisition a few years prior, really show how power driven their leaders were. Convert, kill, or bread the women. All in the name of God, and gold, and...

1. I read the posts here regularly and I've never once read any posts which were personally directed at you which argued such foolish notions; and
2. Okay, we get it. Yeah, you're an athiest. Wow, that makes you like, so totally rad.

Frankly, starting every single post you make on this board with, "To start off with I'm an athiest," is getting pretty annoying. Please find something else to be a chatty kathy about already.

It's the only thing you talk about.

For a theist to begin an argument against an atheist by attempting to debunk the Big Bang and evolution makes a degree of sense. If they can disprove alternative accounts of two of the most significant things they understand God to do, namely create the universe and create humankind, then their explanation will be the only one remaining. The problem is that even if they did debunk these two theories, there are thousands of possibilities within human mythology alone, lending little support to whatever particular one they advance, and moreover other theories not involving any manner of deity could easily be formulated, particularly for the Big Bang.

I'm a Christian, and I believe that evolution exists. However, there are different forms of it, but the end result is the same.

Answers.com wrote:Evolution: A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

I can also see the Big Bang theory working as well. Who's to say that God couldn't have used the big bang to do the work more efficiently, and quicker on the whole?

I'm an open minded Christian for the most part. I fail to see the reason why God and Science couldn't go hand in hand. We use it, and we were made in his own image, so who's to say he never used science?

Before anyone asks "Okay, but what if Science would find some potential way to disprove God's existence? What then?" Well, Satan is the prince of lies, and he can corrupt anything in this world, up to and including the people. Science can be corrupted too.

I remember a line from "The Usual Suspects" that fits my statement: "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist."

And it's true. The Bible says, even the Devil believes in God. (Follows? No.)

The Koran says pretty much the same thing. Why aren't you a Muslim?

Professor Smooth wrote:The Koran says pretty much the same thing. Why aren't you a Muslim?

Who...me?

Autobot032 wrote:

Professor Smooth wrote:The Koran says pretty much the same thing. Why aren't you a Muslim?

Who...me?

Yeah. Everything you mentioned can be said of Islam too. So why'd you pick Christianity instead of Islam? Maybe this should go in another post...

Professor Smooth wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

Professor Smooth wrote:The Koran says pretty much the same thing. Why aren't you a Muslim?

Who...me?

Yeah. Everything you mentioned can be said of Islam too. So why'd you pick Christianity instead of Islam? Maybe this should go in another post...

Oh sorry. I didn't mean to derail. I'll just answer your question and then we'll drop it and stick with the evolution/big bang angle here.

I know nothing of Islam, to be honest. I know many of the same beliefs are shared, and even though it's a different name, we share the same God (last I checked) but beyond that, I know nothing of it.

I was raised a Christian, but during my teen years I got pretty...well...I was headed in the wrong direction and we'll leave it at that. As I grew older, Christianity just seemed to fit like a glove with me, but once I accepted Christ as my savior, I was then finally able to see that it was the right fit for me.

I realize it isn't for everyone, which is why I don't try and preach it. I'd rather someone who's better suited spread the word. Not someone like me who's still finding his path. (not with religion, with life.)

And with that...I'll let this issue drop (and will not address any more questions about it, so we don't have to derail or start a new thread.)

I hope I was able to help you understand some of my postings. I know I'm not the most easy to understand person sometimes. One of my many shortcomings. lol

Menbailee wrote:For a theist to begin an argument against an atheist by attempting to debunk the Big Bang and evolution makes a degree of sense. If they can disprove alternative accounts of two of the most significant things they understand God to do, namely create the universe and create humankind, then their explanation will be the only one remaining.

This is exactly what is annoying about it. Science will only propose the idea in the first place if there is some evidence which suggests such. just because you say your theory is the only one remaining (which was proposed with zero evidence, by the way) doesnt mean it's at all closer to being true.

secondly, you make it sound as though its either the big bang, OR evolution, OR god that is correct. this makes no sense..

To Autobot032:

God for you! No I mean that, stand firm in your beliefs.

I think Open minded religious people can accept science into their world.

The truth is no on knows how everything got started. All a theory is, is an idea until it can be proven wrong. There is no concrete stuff for Evolution and the Big Bang. Where Believers fill the blanks with religion others fill it with science.

We will never be able to find the concrete proof. Too much time has passed. With that much time, it is easy to have doubts and whatnot.

I just wish more people had a similar belief to you. We all can work together to make this a better world.

DJDrew&ScoobyDoo wrote:To Autobot032:

God for you! No I mean that, stand firm in your beliefs.

I think Open minded religious people can accept science into their world.

The truth is no on knows how everything got started. All a theory is, is an idea until it can be proven wrong. There is no concrete stuff for Evolution and the Big Bang. Where Believers fill the blanks with religion others fill it with science.

We will never be able to find the concrete proof. Too much time has passed. With that much time, it is easy to have doubts and whatnot.

I just wish more people had a similar belief to you. We all can work together to make this a better world.

See? I'm not an entire prick. (Intel made me take off the Prick Inside label because it infringed on their design and I'm only 90% prick. )

But I agree. We can look and look and test everything possible and still not come up with every answer. In all honesty, should we have those answers? Do we even really need them?

For example, let's say: Linda's shopping at Target for a T-Shirt, her only concerns are whether or not: They've got one in her size, the correct color, the correct style. That's all she's focused on, and content with. She at that moment doesn't need to know how the universe came to be. Many, many more people like this are out there and could give two craps less about how everything works, they're just happy to be here.

And I think that's the best train of thought of all.