>
shop.seibertron.com amazon.seibertron.com Facebook Twitter X YouTube Pinterest Instagram Myspace LinkedIn Patreon Podcast RSS
This page runs on affiliate links — your clicks may earn us a few Shanix. Want the full transmission? Roll out to our Affiliate Disclosure.

Bay OUT, Spielberg IN

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Join us to discuss the movies and stuff up to date with news for the 2017 release of Transformers 5. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Postby Cyber Bishop » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:00 am

Motto: "Ker-Klick... Choom!"
Weapon: Black Magic
Expressing one's opinions is part of a healthy discussion, forcing them on others is not.

If you don't like the movie... Good
If you like the movie... Good

Let's try and keep this thread civil without forcing your opinions on others.
Not a sheeple.
Think for yourself, don't let the magic TV box and social media do the thinking for you.
Question EVERYTHING!!
Just because you have a youtube review channel doesn't make you special.
I look forward to attending a Botcon soon only to settle matters with several idiots in person (yes this is a threat).
User avatar
Cyber Bishop
God Of Transformers
Posts: 10186
News Credits: 104
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 5:04 am
Location: Just west of New Orleans
Watch Cyber Bishop on YouTube
Buy from Cyber Bishop on eBay
Alt Mode: some sort of rudimentary lathe

Postby Raymond101 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:32 am

Exactly Blackout. If I want to get off on intellectual wankery, I go to my university and work on my essays on philosophy and religion because that's what I do. When I want to see/collect/write about robots blowing stuff up, I... well, go to robots blowing stuff up.

And which entertainment series does this better than most?! Transformers! 8)







e.d/ with the allowed concession to some Japanese series that are indeed entertainment ingenuity personified, Transformers is among the top ranks, if not #1.
Transformers 00, a Transformers/Gundam 00 fanfiction. Check it out if you're interested! :)
Raymond101
Brainmaster
Posts: 1402
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:08 pm

Postby Jazz-935 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:34 am

Koloth wrote:
briggs wrote:
Starscreams bad comedy wrote:Ya, its just too bad he dont know how to make an actual Transformers movie. One that actually gives something more beyond that of the flashy cg effects and spends some time with the actual subject matter.


This is all gibber jabber, give examples of what you mean, and examples as to why this is not a Transformers movie. Keep in mind, you better have brilliant points, or I'll rip your reply to shreds.


He does have some what of a point. We all know the primary focus of the movie was more on the humans than the Autobots. It was also very much an action movie with very little character developement. In 2.5hours you barely got to know the characters at all. Unless you are a long time fan I could see people having very little feeling for the death of Jazz. As such while poorly worded his argument is fair.

Heck even me a long time fan and one that gives Jazz some preferencial treatment didn't have much feeling for his death. Prime summed it up pretty well with his rather cold "Aw, poor Jazz." Really what are we supposed to be feeling for a character with less than 10 minutes screen time and about 4-5 lines of dialogue.

The movie was far from perfect. To even suggest it was perfect is simply ignoring the truth. Was it fun to watch? Heck yea.


Hmm, Im not sure i agree with you here, about people not caring about his death... Right, My scenario was that i ended up going with 3 girls, who don't know trash about Transformers, and one of the girls boyfriends, who is the average teenager who cares more about his "music" right now.

Anyway, I remember at the end of the movie, when i asked everyone what they felt, the girls were like! "BUMBLEBEEEEEE what a great guy, we felt so sorry for him"

then later saying "Oh and jazz, hes the silver car right? well.. that was so Grusome, if you can call it that, the way he got killed, i felt bad from the inside... just horrible. It was kinda shocking, cos it was so short, you didn't expect that to happen when he was taunting megatron"

So, i dunno man... people DO feel for Jazz, just not the way they did for bumblebee, i think thats obvious why,
Bumblebee got to show emotions for his pains, almost looked like her was crying... unlike jazz, who ended up dead doing the heroic thing to do.
Jazz-935
Fuzor
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:50 pm

Postby KoH4711 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:08 am

Seibertron wrote:Enjoy the movie for what it is. Life is a lot more fun if you learn to accept the things that you can't change.


This is, in all honesty, one of the best comments I've heard on the game of pro/anti movie Pong. I can(and actually have, in a few threads)what I don't like about the film. But, personally, none of that made me sit up in the theatre and point it out.

Ultimately, Transformers for me has always been about escapism. The 80's TV show helped me through some rough times in my life. The past few weeks, with our car deciding it no longer liked us, we could go into a theatre and for a few hours, forget about all that BS on the outside. I don't mind if other people didn't feel that way, even if other people hated the movie. It does, however, get a little irksome when you go onto a forum, and have to put up with flames and insults because you dared to like a movie.

Really... with all the bad stuff going on in the world... a lot of people liking a movie you detested should probably rank somewhere below "Do we eat too much garlic as a people" in terms of concerns. I mean, whatever made us all TF fans is there, waiting for us on shelves or DVDs. I'm not going to tell a new generation of fans they can't have THEIR Transformers, because I wouldn't want to be told I couldn't have mine.

And now I'll step off the soap box, no matter how nice the view up here is.

On the original subject, Transformers is, if you really look at it, a strange Frankenstein movie of Spielberg and Bay. The action scenes are pure Bay, but the earlier stuff with Sam took me back to all the great old school Amblin films. And a funny thing happens in those scenes... Bay shows that he's got a REAL knack for that sort of stuff. I remember him saying that he'd never done these more intimate scenes, and they come across as well done. I've seen people who absolutely loathe the movie rave about the Autobot Arrival sequence or some of the more character driven stuff... and they insist Spielberg "must" have done those scenes himself. Either that, or we're seeing why Spielberg has such high opinion of Bay's skills(and I won't presume to say I know more about filmmaking than our generation's Frank Capra).

Also, there's not enough discussion of what part the screenwriters have in what we're seeing on the screen. If you want to talk about how the battle scenes are show? Sure. Don't like the dialogue in the movie? That's the screenwriters. Again, I personally liked what they did. But I think the focus of all criticism on Bay illustrates that people have a problem with Bay first, and the movie second.

Since it's looking more and more like Bay will be back, but Orci and Kurtzman are moving on to Star Trek, here's a thought on a writer: J. Michael Straczynski. He's already working on World War Z and possibly Silver Surfer, and I think he could make a tremendous Transformers movie. It's also worth pointing out one of his protoges: Larry DiTillio.
KoH4711
Fuzor
Posts: 273
News Credits: 3
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:55 am

Postby wing0hero » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:21 am

Motto: "Theres only one way out of those stasis cuffs."
Weapon: Metal Tearing Serrated Circular Blade
about my comment earlier... Its just the fact that this place has really become one of the more user friendly sites of any type on the net. There were things that I found in the movie that I didnt like as well. But 99.9999999% we disagree and get on each others nerves, but we are able to leave amicably. But thats because we pass opinion and dont tell each other what type of person we are and how we should feel. Such as not being a true fan for example. Pretty much every post I make is civil, but I dont like it when someone attacks the integrity of my fellow autobots and decepticons. :RENEGADE:
On the wings of prayer, a hero returns from the battlefield.
wing0hero
Minibot
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:09 pm
Strength: 2
Intelligence: 9
Speed: 9
Endurance: 8
Rank: 6
Courage: 9
Firepower: 7
Skill: 8

Postby Conceptron » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:50 am

Guys, I am not trying to force an opinion on anybody, but when guys start talking about how great Bayformers was...I just have to bite back. Because after watching Bayformers, I couldn't believe that as a FILM, a FILM...it was that bad.

I have taken filmmaking classes and many friends I know are filmmakers who have gone to film school, so I have a basic idea of what makes a good film. Bayformers, based on the knowledge I have, was a BAD film.

Now, you can just sit back and say that this is only Transformers or this is supposed to be a blockbuster. Why does Transformers need to be a bad film? Why does a blockbuster need to be a bad film?

To put it simply, there are CRUCIAL foundations you need to make a decent film. Good structure, a solid plot/story, well realised characters, good story progression.

Having set-piece after set piece with characters that are exceedingly one-dimensional and a plot that focuses solely on a cube without a well-documented back story/origin of it makes for a bad film. As one critic said, you never really feel anything is at stake.

All in all, Bay should not be allowed to make movies. I sincerely hope Spielberg can come onboard to save this movie.
Conceptron

Postby Necessary Evil » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:00 am

Motto: "Always looking for a new motto."
Weapon: Chomping Rotor Blades
Man, if you hate Michael Bay so much, then why did you watch it?
Necessary Evil
City Commander
Posts: 3640
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Hiding in a tree
Strength: 9
Intelligence: 6
Speed: 4
Endurance: 6
Rank: 9
Courage: 10
Firepower: 9
Skill: 8

Postby sandmunky » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:00 am

ZeroZero wrote:Man, if you hate Michael Bay so much, then why did you watch it?


qft.
sandmunky
Minibot
Posts: 156
News Credits: 1
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:24 pm

Postby Jazz-935 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:03 am

ZeroZero wrote:Man, if you hate Michael Bay so much, then why did you watch it?


Agree, thats really silly... Dont watch the film you know you'll hate... hence why i dont like the fact this guy has opened at least two topics talking about how he dislikes the movie... Like i said before...

Isnt one topic enough for you Contraception?
Jazz-935
Fuzor
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:50 pm

Postby Conceptron » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:11 am

I watched the movie because im a TF fan and because I thought that maybe Bay may actually be able to make somewhat of a decent film...that it could be fourth or fifth time lucky. I really didn't think he would subject me to his cheesy slo-mo shots and his ANNOYING editing and quick cuts to ensure that you can't follow the story.

BAY OUT, SPIELBERG IN

I really hope Spielberg can save this franchise before it goes down the tubes. Forget money, let's talk quality!
Conceptron

Postby Briggs » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:13 am

Koloth wrote:
briggs wrote:
Starscreams bad comedy wrote:Ya, its just too bad he dont know how to make an actual Transformers movie. One that actually gives something more beyond that of the flashy cg effects and spends some time with the actual subject matter.


This is all gibber jabber, give examples of what you mean, and examples as to why this is not a Transformers movie. Keep in mind, you better have brilliant points, or I'll rip your reply to shreds.


He does have some what of a point. We all know the primary focus of the movie was more on the humans than the Autobots. It was also very much an action movie with very little character developement. In 2.5hours you barely got to know the characters at all. Unless you are a long time fan I could see people having very little feeling for the death of Jazz. As such while poorly worded his argument is fair.

Heck even me a long time fan and one that gives Jazz some preferencial treatment didn't have much feeling for his death. Prime summed it up pretty well with his rather cold "Aw, poor Jazz." Really what are we supposed to be feeling for a character with less than 10 minutes screen time and about 4-5 lines of dialogue.

The movie was far from perfect. To even suggest it was perfect is simply ignoring the truth. Was it fun to watch? Heck yea.


This was a 2.5 hour movie with a budget and a new era of expensive CGI, not a movie with a pre-2 year primer of tv series'
Briggs
Headmaster
Posts: 1046
News Credits: 4
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 1:00 pm

Postby Koloth » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:15 am

Jazz-935 wrote:So, i dunno man... people DO feel for Jazz, just not the way they did for bumblebee, i think thats obvious why, Bumblebee got to show emotions for his pains, almost looked like her was crying... unlike jazz, who ended up dead doing the heroic thing to do.


Well that's is part of my point though. Yea, you can feel bad but it is hardly what you should feel for the character. A long time favorite a pretty major character in the series is torn in two and all you really feel for him is "Gee that sucks, poor guy. Let's get something to eat." It's hardly the emotionally charged trip it should be. And really that's all about lack of character developement.
Koloth
Vehicon
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:39 pm

Postby Briggs » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:15 am

Conceptron wrote:I watched the movie because im a TF fan and because I thought that maybe Bay may actually be able to make somewhat of a decent film...that it could be fourth or fifth time lucky. I really didn't think he would subject me to his cheesy slo-mo shots and his ANNOYING editing and quick cuts to ensure that you can't follow the story.

BAY OUT, SPIELBERG IN

I really hope Spielberg can save this franchise before it goes down the tubes. Forget money, let's talk quality!


You've been going on about how he sucks and his work sucks for months. THere was no "I actually thought hemight be able to make a somewhat decent film". You ruled him out for aslong as I can remember.
Briggs
Headmaster
Posts: 1046
News Credits: 4
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 1:00 pm

Postby Koloth » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:23 am

briggs wrote:This was a 2.5 hour movie with a budget and a new era of expensive CGI, not a movie with a pre-2 year primer of tv series'


Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the character developement could have been any better than it was. But they could have made you feel more for the character. And the backstory could have been developed a little better. Ultimately I enjoyed the movie for what it is. But there are things that could have been done much better. And to ignore them isn't any better than to expect everyone to agree that the whole movie was garbage.
Koloth
Vehicon
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:39 pm

Postby Loki120 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:23 am

Conceptron wrote:Guys, the fact that you can even BEGIN to defend this movie is very scary. Just look at what PROFESSIONAL CRITICS have said AGAINST this movie. They raise sensible points that you should take note of. A dumb, loud movie= rubbish. No two ways about it.


Okay let's look at reviews from the pros, shall we. Let's see.
Oh look at quick yahoo search pulls up a page which basically tells me that on average, most critics give it a B-. Not bad.

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808716430/info

Robert Ebert - Now I have fans who say, "We are so sorry, Michael Bay, you still suck but we love you." That's what the director of "Transformers" told Simon Ang during an interview in Seoul. He could have been speaking for me. I think Michael Bay sometimes sucks ("Pearl Harbor," "Armageddon," "Bad Boys II") but I find it possible to love him for a movie like "Transformers." It's goofy fun with a lot of stuff that blows up real good, and it has the grace not only to realize how preposterous it is, but to make that into an asset.
(BTW - he gave Transformers 3 out of 4 star - he only gave Harry Potter 2 and 1/2.)

A quick perusal showed that the lowest rating gave it a c-, and while most gave it a B or more.

It pays to do a little research before using something that you know nothing about. And btw, the original movie was panned by critics a lot worse than this version.
Image
Loki120
Transmetal Warrior
Posts: 882
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 12:14 pm

Postby Conceptron » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:25 am

Nah, I ripped mainly into Megan Fox, who I believe should not be in the acting profession because her performance was embarrassingly awful. I tried to give Bay a chance and he messed up. Look at that film again, it was a complete gag-fest. It wasn't Transformers...Bay seemed more focus in telling cheap jokes than actually telling a story concerning the robots.

Crap Film.

Spielberg MUST direct the sequel.
Conceptron

Postby Burn » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:25 am

Motto: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings to randomly click things in the Admin Panel to see what it breaks."
Conceptron wrote:Guys, I am not trying to force an opinion on anybody, but when guys start talking about how great Bayformers was...I just have to bite back.


And yet you seem to have a problem when people bite back defending the movie. Funny that. ;;)

I don't know why you can't accept the fact that people enjoyed the movie. Just because you didn't doesn't mean people have to validate their own opinions. Just accept that people liked it. I accept that you didn't.
Burn
Forum Admin
Posts: 28725
News Credits: 226
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:37 am

Postby Briggs » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:30 am

Koloth wrote:
briggs wrote:This was a 2.5 hour movie with a budget and a new era of expensive CGI, not a movie with a pre-2 year primer of tv series'


Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the character developement could have been any better than it was. But they could have made you feel more for the character. And the backstory could have been developed a little better. Ultimately I enjoyed the movie for what it is. But there are things that could have been done much better. And to ignore them isn't any better than to expect everyone to agree that the whole movie was garbage.


No movie is 100% perfect to everyone in the world. Yes, as I have said before, this movie had it's downfalls, but I don't care, it was still Transformers, with huge similarities, and I loved it.

Some people just liek to come on here and say the movie sucks and continuously insult you for like it, and trying to change your mind. Unnecessary. And in some cases, try to insinuate that their opinions are indeed facts, even when proved wrong.
Last edited by Briggs on Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Briggs
Headmaster
Posts: 1046
News Credits: 4
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 1:00 pm

Postby Briggs » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:35 am

Conceptron wrote:I really hope Spielberg can save this franchise before it goes down the tubes. Forget money, let's talk quality!


It's lasted 20+ years on different levels, pretty sure it's not all of a sudden going to go down the tubes because of a successful (not to you personally) movie, and I doubt Hasbro would appreciate you saying it would require Spielberg to revive their whole franchise.
Briggs
Headmaster
Posts: 1046
News Credits: 4
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 1:00 pm

Postby Conceptron » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:39 am

A bad film is a bad film. People can just say success is solely based on money made which I cannot agree on. But this Bayformers will not be remembered in the same way that T2 was remembered. Why? Because Bay is a rubbish director and should not be allowed to make anymore movies. He will run Transformers to the ground and make the sequels worse and worse.
Conceptron

Postby Briggs » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:41 am

Conceptron wrote:A bad film is a bad film. People can just say success is solely based on money made which I cannot agree on. But this Bayformers will not be remembered in the same way that T2 was remembered. Why? Because Bay is a rubbish director and should not be allowed to make anymore movies. He will run Transformers to the ground and make the sequels worse and worse.


You forgot, "In my opinion".

CON-ROLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLED
Briggs
Headmaster
Posts: 1046
News Credits: 4
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 1:00 pm

Postby Tybre » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:41 am

I'm sorry but the movies I've ever seen that Spielberg made that involved robots sucked. In the words of the people at Maxim.com - A.I. is two and a half hours of (more) proof that Steven Spielberg is better at adopting children than creating robots.... He would have Optimus Prime standing there throwing a temper tantrum because his oil levels are low. Bay might not have made it the best movie in the world (personally, I want to see Ridley Scott direct one of the TFs) but it was still a damn good film. Just because you have a personal preference towards another director it does not mean you go and start some online campaign.
Tybre
Minibot
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:16 am

Postby Koloth » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:44 am

briggs wrote:Some people just liek to come on here and say the movie sucks and continuously insult you for like it, and trying to change your mind. Unnecessary. And in some cases, try to insinuate that their opinions are indeed facts, even when proved wrong.


This I know. And I have battled back against some of those bandieing about the "true fan" tag. But we can still enjoy the movie and acknowledge the faults in it. Things can only improve if we know whats wrong and work to fix those things the next time.
Koloth
Vehicon
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:39 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Transformers Live Action Film Forum


[ Incoming message. Source unknown. ] No Signal - Please Stand By [ Click to attempt signal recovery... ]


Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store

Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "IMMORTAL HULK #50 var 1:25 Marvel Comics 2021 AUG211050 (CA) Hitch"
IMMORTAL HULK #50 ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "INCREDIBLE HULK #340 3D Edition Marvel Comics 2025 Pan-Universal Galactic New"
INCREDIBLE HULK #3 ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SHE-HULK #14 var 1:50 Marvel Comics 2023 APR230842 (CA) Chew (W) Rowell 230711A"
SHE-HULK #14 var 1 ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SHE-HULK #1 var 1:100 virgin Marvel Comics 2022 NOV210847 (CA) Artgerm (W)Rowell"
SHE-HULK #1 var 1: ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "HULK #3 var 1:25 Marvel Comics 2022 NOV210879 (CA) Moore (A) Ottley (W) Cates"
HULK #3 var 1:25 M ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "HULK #7 var 1:25 Marvel Comics 2022 MAR220887 (CA) Lubera (W) Cates (A) Coccolo"
HULK #7 var 1:25 M ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #252 Facsimile Marvel Comics 2024 ptg OCT230970 (A/CA) Frenz"
NEW!
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "DC VERSUS MARVEL Omnibus Hardcover Comics 2024 Superman Spider-Man (CA) Perez"
DC VERSUS MARVEL O ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SHE-HULK #15 var 1:100 Marvel Comics 2023 MAY230921 (CA) Perez (W) Rowell"
SHE-HULK #15 var 1 ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "HULK #13 var 1:25 Marvel Comics JAN230951 (W/A) Ottley (CA) Momoko"
HULK #13 var 1:25 ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "RED HULK #1 3D Edition Marvel Comics 2025 0425PG652 (A/CA) McGuiness (W) Loeb"
RED HULK #1 3D Edi ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SHE-HULK #10 var Marvel Comics 2023 OCT221161 (CA) Talaski (W) Rowell"
NEW!
SHE-HULK #10 var M ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Hulk GRAND DESIGN MONSTER #1 var Marvel Comics 2022 JAN220936 (CA) Piskor"
Hulk GRAND DESIGN ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SHE-HULK #13 var 1:50 Marvel Comics 2023 MAR230861 (CA) Land (W) Rowell"
SHE-HULK #13 var 1 ...
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.

Featured Products on Amazon.com

Buy "Transformers MPM04 Optimus Prime" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Authentics Starscream" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Deluxe Class Dinobot Sludge" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Leader Evolution Rodimus Unicronus" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Studio Series 13 Voyager Class Movie 2 Megatron" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of The Primes Deluxe Class Sinnertwin" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Combiner Wars Blast Off Megatronus Prime Master" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Solus Prime Prime Master" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Autobot Hot Rod and Firedrive" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: The Last Knight Premier Edition Deluxe Bumblebee" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Titan Master Xort and Highbrow" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Studio Series 03 Deluxe Class Movie 3 Crowbar" on AMAZON
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.