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Bush Vetoes Stem-Cell Research Bill

Welcome to the General Discussion area where just about anything goes! This area is designed to discuss all matters and does not necessarily have to be Transformers related. Please keep topics relevant.

Postby Tammuz » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:23 pm

lkavadas wrote:Scrubs > All Medical Shows Combined


have you ever seen green wing?
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Postby Jeep? » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:49 pm

Tammuz wrote:
lkavadas wrote:Scrubs > All Medical Shows Combined


have you ever seen green wing?


Sucks.
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Postby Sagitta » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:46 am

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Tammuz wrote:...stem cell research gives millions a chance, who would otherwise die.

stem cell research IS NOT creating embryoes to be destroyed, it's salvaging some scientific merit from their inevitable destruction.


You may wish to look up just what goes into the process of cloning and extracting these cells for research and experimentation.

"Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer" - the scientific definition for cloning and the method used to clone Dolly the sheep is what's directly involved in bringing forth embryonic cells. In other words: cloning.

SCNT: The nucleus of an egg is removed and replaced with the nucleus of a somatic cell (skin, blood, or a similar cell) from the person to be cloned. Instead of fertilization, a small electric pulse is applied to fuse the cells together and begin dividing. If successful, the result is a newly cloned individual who begins the same process of human development that we all experienced when we first came into being.

All human cloning is reproductive because it duplicates the genetic material of the donor and creates a new human life. The terms “reproductive” and “therapeutic” address what you intend to do with the cloned embryo: it can be implanted into a woman’s uterus with the goal of a live birth (reproductive) or destroyed in a research laboratory for its stem cells (therapeutic).

Cloning is the method used to create the embryo; it has nothing to do with why the embryo was created. To say that one type of cloning is more ethically justified than another is to misrepresent what is actually taking place.

The cloning process being conducted by scientists and discussed by the media is whole-person cloning rather than DNA fragment cloning. This is not a replication of blood or skin cells; rather, it clones a whole person through SCNT (cloning). Cloning creates a new human life with virtually the same genetic material as the donor in order to destroy it for research purposes.

And for what purpose? For all the talk of embryonic stem cell research none of it has bore any fruit. If anything, all the testing and experimentation has proven the opposite. Those who have partaken in testing have often experienced sudden production of cells leading to masses. What we define as cancer in many cases? And why should that be surprising? The cells within a human being within the first stages of life have all the blueprints needed for that human being. The cells are preprogrammed to develop rather rapidly just as if the child were yet within the womb.

Adult stem cell research and research towards the stem cells taken from a newborn's umbilical cord have been proven to be much more beneficial and have helped and aided much more people without causing them undue harm.

With the way the more beneficial approaches are being overlooked in favor of cloning and destroying human beings at the very beginnings of life only to be cut down, one shouldn't only consider this matter. But the reason clinics artificially fertilize and implant while knowing there will be those embryos that will die. And then there are those frozen.

And most important why we as a people want to dictate when a child is born, when he or she is not. It's not about the child's life. It's merely what a man and/or woman would want, exactly when they want it. Much like the fact that 99% of all abortions preformed are chosen as a means of convenience...not of specific major health concerns. And when other children are killed during the "medical procedure" then so be it. And to me that's rather selfish. But it goes along nicely with the "me first" society.
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Postby Tammuz » Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:22 am

Sagitta wrote:
Tammuz wrote:...stem cell research gives millions a chance, who would otherwise die.

stem cell research IS NOT creating embryoes to be destroyed, it's salvaging some scientific merit from their inevitable destruction.


You may wish to look up just what goes into the process of cloning and extracting these cells for research and experimentation.

"Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer" - the scientific definition for cloning and the method used to clone Dolly the sheep is what's directly involved in bringing forth embryonic cells. In other words: cloning.

SCNT: The nucleus of an egg is removed and replaced with the nucleus of a somatic cell (skin, blood, or a similar cell) from the person to be cloned. Instead of fertilization, a small electric pulse is applied to fuse the cells together and begin dividing. If successful, the result is a newly cloned individual who begins the same process of human development that we all experienced when we first came into being.

All human cloning is reproductive because it duplicates the genetic material of the donor and creates a new human life. The terms “reproductive” and “therapeutic” address what you intend to do with the cloned embryo: it can be implanted into a woman’s uterus with the goal of a live birth (reproductive) or destroyed in a research laboratory for its stem cells (therapeutic).

Cloning is the method used to create the embryo; it has nothing to do with why the embryo was created. To say that one type of cloning is more ethically justified than another is to misrepresent what is actually taking place.

The cloning process being conducted by scientists and discussed by the media is whole-person cloning rather than DNA fragment cloning. This is not a replication of blood or skin cells; rather, it clones a whole person through SCNT (cloning). Cloning creates a new human life with virtually the same genetic material as the donor in order to destroy it for research purposes.

And for what purpose? For all the talk of embryonic stem cell research none of it has bore any fruit. If anything, all the testing and experimentation has proven the opposite. Those who have partaken in testing have often experienced sudden production of cells leading to masses. What we define as cancer in many cases? And why should that be surprising? The cells within a human being within the first stages of life have all the blueprints needed for that human being. The cells are preprogrammed to develop rather rapidly just as if the child were yet within the womb.

Adult stem cell research and research towards the stem cells taken from a newborn's umbilical cord have been proven to be much more beneficial and have helped and aided much more people without causing them undue harm.

With the way the more beneficial approaches are being overlooked in favor of cloning and destroying human beings at the very beginnings of life only to be cut down, one shouldn't only consider this matter. But the reason clinics artificially fertilize and implant while knowing there will be those embryos that will die. And then there are those frozen.

And most important why we as a people want to dictate when a child is born, when he or she is not. It's not about the child's life. It's merely what a man and/or woman would want, exactly when they want it. Much like the fact that 99% of all abortions preformed are chosen as a means of convenience...not of specific major health concerns. And when other children are killed during the "medical procedure" then so be it. And to me that's rather selfish. But it goes along nicely with the "me first" society.


you may wish to read the original article agian, these embryoes have already been created and are a surplus of IVF stock, they are going to be destroyed anyway(if you want to discuss the ethics of IVF then go ahead) and thus i think it'd be better to destroy them and get a little research in, than just incinerate them.

as such, your method of embryo creation is wrong, very little cloning goes on in IVF, as SCNT is an even less conducive method of creating embryoes and introduces alot of genetic defects.

also it's a bit of a misnomer to call them embryoes,the latest their transferend to to womb at is the blastocyst stage, so about 100 cells max.

as for no fruit from the research stem cells are currently used for treatment of leukemia, and clinical studies have shown that damage to the retina in humans(blindness) can be repaired, scientists have regrown cochlea hair cells(deafness), as well as growing new teeth, and blood.
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Postby Autobot032 » Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:14 am

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Bush is an idiot. This is the chance to take a life that has no chance, and give hope to those suffering in a horrible life.

People could possibly walk, neurological disorders could possibly be eradicated, hell, we might even find a cure for HIV/AIDS and Cancer.

But that would be sensible wouldn't it? Damn, I keep forgetting that.

"Could ya get me another Ding Dong, darlin'?" <- yeah, Bay about summed him up.
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Postby lkavadas » Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:08 pm

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Did someone say HIV cure?

Here's an interesting article: Original Link

by Mira Oberman Thu Jun 28, 2:39 PM ET

CHICAGO (AFP) - In a breakthrough that could potentially lead to a cure for HIV infection, scientists have discovered a way to remove the virus from infected cells, a study released Thursday said.

The scientists engineered an enzyme which attacks the DNA of the HIV virus and cuts it out of the infected cell, according to the study published in Science magazine.

The enzyme is still far from being ready to use as a treatment, the authors warned, but it offers a glimmer of hope for the more than 40 million people infected worldwide.

"A customized enzyme that effectively excises integrated HIV-1 from infected cells in vitro might one day help to eradicate (the) virus from AIDS patients," Alan Engelman, of Harvard University's Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, wrote in an article accompanying the study.

Current treatments focus on suppressing the HIV virus in order to delay the onset of AIDS and dramatically extend the life of infected patients.

What makes HIV so deadly, however, is its ability to insert itself into the body's cells and force those cells to produce new infection.

"Consequently the virus becomes inextricably linked to the host, making it virtually impossible to 'cure' AIDS patients of their HIV-1 infection," Engelman explained.

That could change if the enzyme developed by a group of German scientists can be made safe to use on people.

That enzyme was able to eliminate the HIV virus from infected human cells in about three months in the laboratory.

The researchers engineered an enzyme called Tre which removes the virus from the genome of infected cells by recognizing and then recombining the structure of the virus's DNA.

This ability to recognize HIV's DNA might one day help overcome one of the biggest obstacles to finding a cure: the ability of the HIV virus to avoid detection by reverting to a resting state within infected cells which then cease to produce the virus for months or even years.

"Numerous attempts have been made to activate these cells, with the hope that such strategies would sensitize the accompanying viruses to antiviral drugs, leading to virus eradication," Engelman wrote. "Advances with such approaches in patients have been slow to materialize."

New experiments must be designed to see if the Tre enzyme can be used to recognize these dormant infected cells, he wrote.

"Although favorable results would represent perhaps only a baby step toward eventual use in patients, the discovery of the Tre recombinase proves that enzymatic removal of integrated HIV-1 from human chromosomes is a current-day reality," he said.

The researchers who developed the enzyme were optimistic about their ability to design additional enzymes which would target other parts of the virus's DNA.

However they warned that there were significant barriers to overcome before the enzyme could be used to help cure patients.

"The most important, and likely most difficult, among these is that the enzyme would need efficient and safe means of delivery and would have to be able to function without adverse side effects," wrote lead author Indrani Sarkar of the Max Planck Institute for Molecular Cell Biology and Genetics in Dresden.

"Nevertheless the results we present offer an early proof of principal for this type of approach, which we speculate might form a useful basis for the development of future HIV therapies," Sarkar concluded.
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Postby homelessjunkeon » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:22 pm

Autobot032 wrote:Bush is an idiot.

Really? I guess pandering to his core voters in the year before a presidential election is pretty stupid. :-? Right? Right?
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Postby Duo Prime » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:47 am

Yeah, bush sucks, and i hope he gets cancer, along with his stupid daughters(who might run for office someday), and everyone else in his stupid family!!!! (i'm quite drunk by the way, but you know i'm right!!!! :lol: )
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Postby Loki120 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:52 am

Duo Prime wrote:Yeah, bush sucks, and i hope he gets cancer, along with his stupid daughters(who might run for office someday), and everyone else in his stupid family!!!! (i'm quite drunk by the way, but you know i'm right!!!! :lol: )


This goes a long way towards explaining a few things about you. It's pretty funny on how someone who calls other people "anti-people" then goes around wishing cancer on people. Good job getting your point across in an intelligent manner.
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Postby Handels-Messerschmitt » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:17 am

I guess you can be for people in general but against specific persons. And, well, vice-versa, too.
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Postby Duo Prime » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:51 pm

Loki120 wrote:
Duo Prime wrote:Yeah, bush sucks, and i hope he gets cancer, along with his stupid daughters(who might run for office someday), and everyone else in his stupid family!!!! (i'm quite drunk by the way, but you know i'm right!!!! :lol: )


This goes a long way towards explaining a few things about you. It's pretty funny on how someone who calls other people "anti-people" then goes around wishing cancer on people. Good job getting your point across in an intelligent manner.


UGGG DUHHHH, i guess you fail to see the obvious. I said i was drunk when i posted this, but, i am not sorry for saying this one little bit. Yes, i am for people and wish for peace, but i am not a pacifist. Screw the war monger pricks. I hope they all die, the world would be better off. And besides that, what make you think i give a flying F**K about what you think about me. I am what i am. I make no appologies for it.
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Postby Mkall » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:52 pm

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Let's keep this debate insult-free please
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