The Energon Pub

Typical government looking for more money:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... /#headline

Well I am no power seller. I just sell to make some fun money to buy more goodies.

If they want to get really picky, they should go to conventions around here where the chances are a lot of people do not have a vendors permit.

Fair enough, if the Power Sellers are not declaring their tax correctly then they deserved to be busted.

i_amtrunks wrote:Fair enough, if the Power Sellers are not declaring their tax correctly then they deserved to be busted.

Well true. However that gives an unfair advantage to other eBay Powersellers in other countries whose government allows them to sell without any such declarations requirements. HK for example.

Zeds wrote:

i_amtrunks wrote:Fair enough, if the Power Sellers are not declaring their tax correctly then they deserved to be busted.

Well true. However that gives an unfair advantage to other eBay Powersellers in other countries whose government allows them to sell without any such declarations requirements. HK for example.

But that's an advantage large manufacturers, wholesalers and retailers have had for years.

You abide by the laws from where you operate your business.

For most people it's a hobby, for Power Sellers though it's clearly a business.

In Australia you'd be expected to declare anything over $1000. The tax office aren't liable to crack down on you though until your turnover gets a bit bigger. In fact if you were running at a loss (this law was introduced to counter high income earning wage earners, eg Doctors, running what was nothing more than a hobby farm) you're not allowed to claim that loss until your turnover goes over $20,000 or you meet one of the other five tests.

Power Sellers however are generally legitimate businesses. I've heard stories of some who traded with a shop front for years before they realised how cheaper it was to shut up shop and sell on E-Bay from home or a warehouse. Less overheads.

So yes, it's time they cracked down on these things. The next step is to go after Paypal and force them into following standard banking procedures.

Burn wrote:But that's an advantage large manufacturers, wholesalers and retailers have had for years.

You abide by the laws from where you operate your business.

For most people it's a hobby, for Power Sellers though it's clearly a business.

In Australia you'd be expected to declare anything over $1000. The tax office aren't liable to crack down on you though until your turnover gets a bit bigger. In fact if you were running at a loss (this law was introduced to counter high income earning wage earners, eg Doctors, running what was nothing more than a hobby farm) you're not allowed to claim that loss until your turnover goes over $20,000 or you meet one of the other five tests.

Power Sellers however are generally legitimate businesses. I've heard stories of some who traded with a shop front for years before they realised how cheaper it was to shut up shop and sell on E-Bay from home or a warehouse. Less overheads.

So yes, it's time they cracked down on these things. The next step is to go after Paypal and force them into following standard banking procedures.

You raised some very interesting points. This is why eBay Canada is fighting this so fiercely. They know that if the CRA (Canada Revenue Agency) has their way it will cut deeply into the practices Powersellers on eBay and eBay's their bottom line. Time will tell where this goes.

People already cut into eBay's bottom line with their "buy it for a dollar but pay 100 times the real cost for shipping" practice.

eBay set up local offices in different countries so that they could comply with local laws. I don't see why they should be fighting it if they want to be considered a legitimate business.

Burn wrote:People already cut into eBay's bottom line with their "buy it for a dollar but pay 100 times the real cost for shipping" practice.

eBay set up local offices in different countries so that they could comply with local laws. I don't see why they should be fighting it if they want to be considered a legitimate business.

Ebay tries to crack down on that $1 BIN + $100 S/H auctions. I still see them from time to time and laugh.

The main problem here is that eBay knows if they do not protect the eBay Powersellers from the taxman that they will lose those sellers as they cease operations due to taxes owed to the government which they have not filed. CDNs generally pay about 42% of their income earned to tax. Around 10-15% more than some US states and that is how we pay for the social services we have up here like free medical care.

Our government just announced a $14 Billion quarterly surplus due to the increased tax revenues coming in from the hot economy. This while the US struggles with deficit after deficit with a debt now reaching 8 trillion while Canada's is slowing being paid off and which is down to only $472 Billion. We almost lost our AAA++ Credit Rating with the IMF a few years ago when we were tipping over the edge in debt. You can understand why there is a general uproar against CRA going after yet more taxes and taxable income given the health of the economy and the levels of the surpluses already coming in.

Okay I can understand eBay wanting to protect their clients as not doing so would affect their profits.

But who are eBay to defy local tax laws? If they're complying with local taxation laws around the world then what gives them the right to try to protect their clients from exploiting the laws themselves?

Australia introduced the GST back in 2000 (10% on most goods and services) and that has generated a HUGE surplus for the government. Mind you, don't ever get sick because instead of using that surplus to fix up the health system they've returned it in the form of tax cuts and other benefits (the majority of which don't apply to a single male with no kids like myself)

Yet suprisingly, we're still one of the most over-taxed countries in the world.

But I can tell you now, I work for an Accountant in a small rural town, I see people rorting the cash economy on a regular basis. Hell I know enough ways to rort the entire tax system myself!

We may be over-taxed, but then the Australian government could be collecting a whole lot more if they went after those taking advantage of the cash economy.

So sorry, I don't see the fact the government having a massive surplus as a reason for some people to avoid paying tax. Why should these Power Sellers get away without paying while others in regular trade can't?

Burn wrote:Okay I can understand eBay wanting to protect their clients as not doing so would affect their profits.

But who are eBay to defy local tax laws? If they're complying with local taxation laws around the world then what gives them the right to try to protect their clients from exploiting the laws themselves?

Australia introduced the GST back in 2000 (10% on most goods and services) and that has generated a HUGE surplus for the government. Mind you, don't ever get sick because instead of using that surplus to fix up the health system they've returned it in the form of tax cuts and other benefits (the majority of which don't apply to a single male with no kids like myself)

Yet suprisingly, we're still one of the most over-taxed countries in the world.

But I can tell you now, I work for an Accountant in a small rural town, I see people rorting the cash economy on a regular basis. Hell I know enough ways to rort the entire tax system myself!

We may be over-taxed, but then the Australian government could be collecting a whole lot more if they went after those taking advantage of the cash economy.

So sorry, I don't see the fact the government having a massive surplus as a reason for some people to avoid paying tax. Why should these Power Sellers get away without paying while others in regular trade can't?

Again you raise some excellent points since we are bound by the tax laws of our representative countries. You are correct and I agree with you. There is I still believe more corporate tax offenses than anything the government can find on eBay. CRA is simply going after sellers that for the most part do not have any records unlike most corporations for a proper audit to take place.

Zeds wrote:There is I still believe more corporate tax offenses than anything the government can find on eBay. CRA is simply going after sellers that for the most part do not have any records unlike most corporations for a proper audit to take place.

Oh for sure.

The worst part is the ones they do catch up with probably made innocent errors while those who are blatantly rorting the system will escape.

Burn wrote:

Zeds wrote:There is I still believe more corporate tax offenses than anything the government can find on eBay. CRA is simply going after sellers that for the most part do not have any records unlike most corporations for a proper audit to take place.

Oh for sure.

The worst part is the ones they do catch up with probably made innocent errors while those who are blatantly rorting the system will escape.

But that's the same for everything.

I think it will be interesting to see how this Canada vs. ebay battle goes, if Canada wins, expect every other government to start doing the same.

If it happens here in Australia, I hope the surplus goes into health care and Education, not a $2 tax break.

I am for them catching tax avoiders.

Burn wrote:

Zeds wrote:There is I still believe more corporate tax offenses than anything the government can find on eBay. CRA is simply going after sellers that for the most part do not have any records unlike most corporations for a proper audit to take place.

Oh for sure.

The worst part is the ones they do catch up with probably made innocent errors while those who are blatantly rorting the system will escape.

My point exactly. Another issue is that the Powersellers Program is optional. One can still do a heavy amount of selling on eBay and they do not have to be part of the Powersellers Program. They will get off scott free based on how the CRA is dealing with this situation! CRA needs to reign in all sellers and not just those in the Powersellers Program to be completely fair.

They have already started this in Britain as well.

They have the same thing in Germany, but with a difference. You don't have to be a Powerseller according to eBay to fall under that business category. Enough auctions within a certain amount of time and the goverment is after you for not declaring a business.

And make sure to never buy a Polish car via eBay in Germany, otherwise you're guilty of accessory of thefth, because all Plosih cars are stolen. And, no, that isn't my opinion, that was an actual court ruling.