The Energon Pub

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Truth be told I'm hard pressed to think of a scenario where DD could beat Bats.

In lite of the way both characters have been written in the last few years I would say the fight would go to Bats.

Given how Marvel had neutered Juggernaut over the years I can see the same thing happen to DD. Murdock hasn't had the good writer love of the 80s since the late 90s.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Simply put if what has been written is true and all things in both universe's are equal then Batman is the 2nd or 3rd best fighter in the world of DC.

I think that DD was ranked in the upper half of the top 10 of Marvel best fighters.

I'ld like to see a link to the list if possible. It's not that I doubt your Klingon honor, I just want to confirm who else I think would be above him on the list.

If I'm right marvels top fighter list has members who hardly should count as peak human while DC had a 16 year old girl out fight Batman because she can read his moves. I'm thinking DD can pull of something close with his senses and radar

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:If the ranking scales of both universes are the same [ and I know that a big IF ] Then DD cant match Bats.

A real good fight would be Captain America vs Batman.

I'ld have to disagree here. Cap is likely listed as Marvel's top fighter and just ain't human. Cap claimed to be peak human but he lied. Curling 800pd with one arm makes me think he can bench a ton or two. Being able to keep up with Spidey or Wolverine on foot is easily faster than 35 mph. These three can each perform at there peak for over a day (I think spidey got a boost a while back). Wolverine does all this with 50 to 100pd of metal on his bones. For Cap to be a match for Wolverine he can't be peak human.I think Bat's fighting Cap would be closer to Cap fighting 90's Quicksilver.

AxiomScion wrote:Given how Marvel had neutered Juggernaut over the years I can see the same thing happen to DD. Murdock hasn't had the good writer love of the 80s since the late 90s.

Agreed.

AxiomScion wrote:I'ld like to see a link to the list if possible. It's not that I doubt your Klingon honor, I just want to confirm who else I think would be above him on the list.

I'll look for something but I cant make any promosiss.It was something I saw a few years back.

I can tell you that some of the guys on the list didnt make sence to me and I can also tell you some of the guys that out ranked DD but not in the order they had.

Captain America, Wolverine, Thor, Taskmaster, Marvel's master of Kung Fu [I forgot his name] and Ironfist is all I can remember right now..

AxiomScion wrote:If I'm right marvels top fighter list has members who hardly should count as peak human while DC had a 16 year old girl out fight Batman because she can read his moves. I'm thinking DD can pull of something close with his senses and radar

I guess your right about that.

AxiomScion wrote:I'ld have to disagree here. Cap is likely listed as Marvel's top fighter and just ain't human. Cap claimed to be peak human but he lied. Curling 800pd with one arm makes me think he can bench a ton or two.

Was that "Curling 800pd" also in the dialog or was it just in the art????

I ask because just last year in the pages of Batman.....Batman was showen benching over 1600 lbs but I just chalked it up to a artist error.

AxiomScion wrote:Being able to keep up with Spidey or Wolverine on foot is easily faster than 35 mph. These three can each perform at there peak for over a day (I think spidey got a boost a while back). Wolverine does all this with 50 to 100pd of metal on his bones. For Cap to be a match for Wolverine he can't be peak human.I think Bat's fighting Cap would be closer to Cap fighting 90's Quicksilver.

Well most of the Marvel heroes have been getting some upgrades in streangh and power of the last 15 years or so.....so it would be a hard one to debate.

But Marvel was up untill his death saying that Cap was still only at peak human levels when it came to his streanght.So I'm sticking with that

I'll look for something but I cant make any promosiss.It was something I saw a few years back.

I appreciate it. I've looked through google a few days on this.

I can tell you that some of the guys on the list didn't make sense to me and I can also tell you some of the guys that out ranked DD but not in the order they had.

Captain America, Wolverine, Thor, Taskmaster, Marvel's master of Kung Fu [I forgot his name] and Ironfist is all I can remember right now..

Frankly cap is Cap, with 30-50 years of combat experience depending (i forget).
Wolverine with his memory intact probably has more exp than cap.
I think I can follow why a Norse deity that's been fighting for over 100 years might be a good fighter. He's spared with Cap too.
Taskmaster is like that Naruto copycat ninja but came first and he's copied most of the best for over 10 years now.
Ironfist is marvel's green hornet nod to Bruce.
And the master of kungfu had to get his name some how.

The ones I'ld count as similar to the DC list are Ironfist, master of kungfu, and maybe Taskmaster would count. If Wildcat were on DC's list then DD would at least be above him and Nitewing. Is Slade, Bane, or Green arrow on the DC list?

AxiomScion wrote:

I'll look for something but I cant make any promosiss.It was something I saw a few years back.

I appreciate it. I've looked through google a few days on this.

I can tell you that some of the guys on the list didn't make sense to me and I can also tell you some of the guys that out ranked DD but not in the order they had.

Captain America, Wolverine, Thor, Taskmaster, Marvel's master of Kung Fu [I forgot his name] and Ironfist is all I can remember right now..

Frankly cap is Cap, with 30-50 years of combat experience depending (i forget).
Wolverine with his memory intact probably has more exp than cap.
I think I can follow why a Norse deity that's been fighting for over 100 years might be a good fighter. He's spared with Cap too.
Taskmaster is like that Naruto copycat ninja but came first and he's copied most of the best for over 10 years now.
Ironfist is marvel's green hornet nod to Bruce.
And the master of kungfu had to get his name some how.

The ones I'ld count as similar to the DC list are Ironfist, master of kungfu, and maybe Taskmaster would count. If Wildcat were on DC's list then DD would at least be above him and Nitewing. Is Slade, Bane, or Green arrow on the DC list?

Dc's tope 10 list had from what I can remember [ in no particular order ] Batman ,Deathstroke,Batgirl, Promethuse [spelling] the Karatie kid and a few others that I just cant remember right now.

Come to think of it it may have been a Wizard list.

Prometheus seems to correlate with Prodigy or maybe Taskmaster in terms of why they rank on the list.

I'm pretty sure Batgirl's parents each made the list seeing as one of them taught her (and Batman) while the other could beat her (and Batman) until recently.

deathstroke fights better than nightwing
deadpool fights better than winter soldier

I could try and search with wizard, it's easier to find a tier list of abilities, strength, or speed but reference combat or fighting and I get a ton of marvel and DC video games and reviews

im goin to have to say batman has this all the way. even if he runs out of his gadgets, he is still really smart and could definitly come up with someting to beat teh blind DD

AxiomScion wrote:
I'm pretty sure Batgirl's parents each made the list seeing as one of them taught her (and Batman) while the other could beat her (and Batman) until recently.

Lady Shiva was on the list I just couldnt remember her name.

AxiomScion wrote:deathstroke fights better than nightwing

That one shocks you?????I was shocked that Deathstroke did not rank closer [or higher] to Bats.

AxiomScion wrote:deadpool fights better than winter soldier

At the time I read that list Bucky had not returned from the dead yet.

AxiomScion wrote:I could try and search with wizard, it's easier to find a tier list of abilities, strength, or speed but reference combat or fighting and I get a ton of marvel and DC video games and reviews

I know what you meen.I've been trying too.

From what I read so far there are hardly any Marvel nerds here.
Noone really knows about DD´s exact abilities here, it seems
I am not a nerd but almost:) I also read DC too, especially when I was a kid.


Ok. First,about the hearing thing i read someone talk about. There are so many versions of superman that its hard to tell wich one we´re talking about.compare the films, and Daredevil has a superior hearing to superman.
Superman doesnt focus on his hearing at all times, he kinda has to pay attention to even have it(in the movies and TV).Daredevil uses his senses a lot more directly(in the comics).even though he can filter out disturbing noises, he is still at all times aware of everything in a wide radius.

back to topic.
There is no sure winner here.

If batman had no technology whatsoever with him,just his bat-a-rangs etc., Daredevil would defeat him, he is a metahuman physically,he is theoretically superior to Batman.
Yes, batman is superior in fighting technique, but if u have ever studied and compared martial arts styles around the world, u will hear them all say the same: What makes the best fighter is a combination of reaction time,balance,speed,and knowledge of the human body.
in all these things DD is either equal or superior to Batman.

Let me put it this way.Film-DD would definately defeat film-Bats.

As for the gadgets.
They could totally turn the tide,sure. But for that to happen, bats would have to have the RIGHT gadgets with him. He cannot have all the gadgets he´s ever used with him at all times.thats for certain.lol
If he had something very loud and sense numbing with him, he could finish DD easily.
But I wouldnt exactly call that a fair competition.

The silencing device alone wont do it, since bats is neither scent-less nor doesnt move air around him when he moves.I work with deaf+blind(yes both at the seam time) people and even THEY know if ure passing by, just by the change in the air.yes.So daredevil will EXACTLY know where bats is at all times.

So bats would have to be very prepared/lucky and well informed about DD to defeat him.

Thats my 2 cent.

TreCool wrote:From what I read so far there are hardly any Marvel nerds here.
Noone really knows about DD´s exact abilities here, it seems
I am not a nerd but almost:) I also read DC too, especially when I was a kid.


Ok. First,about the hearing thing i read someone talk about. There are so many versions of superman that its hard to tell wich one we´re talking about.compare the films, and Daredevil has a superior hearing to superman.
Superman doesnt focus on his hearing at all times, he kinda has to pay attention to even have it(in the movies and TV).Daredevil uses his senses a lot more directly(in the comics).even though he can filter out disturbing noises, he is still at all times aware of everything in a wide radius.

That's not exactly accurate.

Daredevil use's his hearing in a wide range of different ways then Superman does but his hearing is significantly weeker then that of Superman.

Superman actually had to learn to filter out the exsesive sounds from his super-hearing.

In short DareDevil can hear a person's heartbeat at a distance of over twenty feet,Superman can do the same with in miles.

TreCool wrote:back to topic.
There is no sure winner here.

If batman had no technology whatsoever with him,just his bat-a-rangs etc., Daredevil would defeat him, he is a metahuman physically,he is theoretically superior to Batman.

Incorrect.

DareDevil has...

Superhuman Sense of Hearing
Superhuman Sense of Smell
Superhuman Sense of Touch
Superhuman Sense of Taste
Superhuman Sense of Balance
Radar Sense

But he has no super-human strength.Daredevil is an Olympic level weightlifter and possesses the normal human strength of a man of his age, height, and build that exercises intensively and regularly.

And none of his abilities are very far outside the range a normal human could reach with proper training.

And most of DD's super scenes could be turned to weekness quite quickly.

TreCool wrote:But I wouldnt exactly call that a fair competition.

Not to state the obvious but no fight with Batman would ever be fair.

The man is willing to cheat.

TreCool wrote:The silencing device alone wont do it, since bats is neither scent-less

There are a number of ways around that.

TreCool wrote: nor doesnt move air around him when he moves.

He's worker around that issue before.

TreCool wrote:So daredevil will EXACTLY know where bats is at all times.

I doubt it.

TreCool wrote:So bats would have to be very prepared/lucky and well informed about DD to defeat him.

Which he would be before entering a battle with DD.

Batman probably died of old age by now. Daredevil would be a pensioner. Winner: incontinence.