The Energon Pub

Rodimus wasn't the "Chosen One." The only thing we know about the Chosen One is he will "rise from our ranks and use the power of the Matrix to light our darkest hour." Ok, so how come when Roddy uses the Matrix, it remains the same as it was, but when Prime uses it, it is emptied? Gee, it's almost like Prime... USED THE POWER OF THE MATRIX!!!

Second, why couldn't the "Chosen ONe" enter the Matrix at will? Prime could, but Roddy had to force a near-death experience. Gee, it's almost as if he doesn't have a natural affinity with the Matrix.

Also, I don't believe that his using the Matrix was a sign he should be leader. The prophesy doesn't say "...light our darkest hour, and suddenly be the best person to lead the Autobots, even if there are other Autobots with years of command experience behind them."

Finally, I'm not convinced that the Matrix ever did choose Roddy. When he uses the thing to destroy Unicron's body, the Matrix had three choices: let Galvatron use it's power, let Unicron win, or let Roddy use it's power. So yes, Roddy was chosen, but only over Galvatron.

In conclusion, the only true Chosen One defeated Betty with his tongue.

Sledge wrote:In conclusion, the only true Chosen One defeated Betty with his tongue.

Hm, tiger.. Tiger.

Birdy, bird.

Come to think of it, maybe Rodimus being written as the 'new leader' was all a fluke to begin with.

We all know that profiles and maybe some stories are written about each character before they got a toy release (this especially being so for TFTM characters). It follows that the mandate for each characters' function would have to be decided, then forwarded to the toy manufacturing.

Ultra Magnus' toy package says: City Commander- Ultra Magnus
Galvatron's package says: City Commander- Galvatron
Rodimus Prime's package says: Autobot Protector- Rodimus Prime

From this, I think it reasonable to draw the conclusion that the new leaders were planned to be Ultra Magnus and Galvatron; with Rodimus Prime being a souped up more powerful Hot rod perhaps, some sort of vigilante 'protector'.

We also know that at this point, Hasbro and Takara worked closely in terms of marketing for TFs and looking at some of the vintage Jap promotional posters, it is not hard to discern that perhaps Hasbro had told Takara of who the 'intended' new leaders are and left out the part that Optimus would die and that Megatron becomes Galvatron.

This poster is one such likely evidence of this scenario:


The possibility is this- Rodimus was likely never planned to be the leader of the Autobots until a later script change. It was probably too late to go back and change the toy labelling by then.

That does sound quite likely. There's the theory that Rodimus and Galvatron's profiles were written so as not to contain spoilers for the movie, but I've never found that very convincing. Galvatron becomes 'Con leader, what, twnety minutes into the film? Revealing sometihng that happens so soon is hardly a major spoiler. It's like saying that Bruce Wayne leaves the League Of Shadows is a spoiler for Batman Begins.

Also, the Rodimus toy has always looked to me like something conceived as an afterthought rather than as something planned from the beginning. It's very clearly based on the Hot ROd toy. If Rodimus were planned as the leader, surely his toy would have been designed first, then Hot Rod's would have been based on it?

Basically, I think that the movie writers intended for Hot Rod to be the Chosen One and lead the Autobots. I don't think HasTak were ready for this, hence the rather lame Rodimus toy. The Season 3 writers certainly didn't maintain the idea of Rodimus being a Chosen One.

There is an old toy commercial that has Optimus' voice saying that Ultra Magnus is the new Autobot leader. It's probably on youtube somewhere...

heroic_decepticon wrote:Come to think of it, maybe Rodimus being written as the 'new leader' was all a fluke to begin with.

We all know that profiles and maybe some stories are written about each character before they got a toy release (this especially being so for TFTM characters). It follows that the mandate for each characters' function would have to be decided, then forwarded to the toy manufacturing.

Ultra Magnus' toy package says: City Commander- Ultra Magnus
Galvatron's package says: City Commander- Galvatron
Rodimus Prime's package says: Autobot Protector- Rodimus Prime

From this, I think it reasonable to draw the conclusion that the new leaders were planned to be Ultra Magnus and Galvatron; with Rodimus Prime being a souped up more powerful Hot rod perhaps, some sort of vigilante 'protector'.

We also know that at this point, Hasbro and Takara worked closely in terms of marketing for TFs and looking at some of the vintage Jap promotional posters, it is not hard to discern that perhaps Hasbro had told Takara of who the 'intended' new leaders are and left out the part that Optimus would die and that Megatron becomes Galvatron.

This poster is one such likely evidence of this scenario:


The possibility is this- Rodimus was likely never planned to be the leader of the Autobots until a later script change. It was probably too late to go back and change the toy labelling by then.

Sounds probable........considering the size difference between Rodimus and Galvatron.Also when you take into account that Takara was pushing the "Power Convoy" mold as a upgrade for Optimus's character much like they used it for there diaclone line.

It was Hasbro/Marvel that inssisted that they make Ultra Magnus a differen character and not a upgraded armor form for Optimus.

bookofjunon wrote:There is an old toy commercial that has Optimus' voice saying that Ultra Magnus is the new Autobot leader. It's probably on youtube somewhere...

You meen one of these????

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y1Cy6TQbw_Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pUNUWzKbdyY&feature=related
But he calls him the powerful Autobot comander and a born leader not the leader

Here check out these Japanese adds.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=S7ZOtSO3n38&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wsKIXzHhZT8&feature=related

But what was Optimus Prime's funciton according to his tech specs? Commander.

Sledge wrote:But what was Optimus Prime's funciton according to his tech specs? Commander.

And Ultra Magnus's funciton according to his tech spec was City Commander....so whats your point

Rodimus Prime sucks ass.

Sledge wrote:Rodimus Prime sucks ass.

I thought he sucked Tailpipe

He'll do anything as long as you can convince him it's what Optimus would have done.

Sledge wrote:He'll do anything as long as you can convince him it's what Optimus would have done.

Funny

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

bookofjunon wrote:There is an old toy commercial that has Optimus' voice saying that Ultra Magnus is the new Autobot leader. It's probably on youtube somewhere...

You meen one of these????

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y1Cy6TQbw_Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pUNUWzKbdyY&feature=related
But he calls him the powerful Autobot comander and a born leader not the leader

Here check out these Japanese adds.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=S7ZOtSO3n38&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wsKIXzHhZT8&feature=related

Sounds to me like they mean he's the new leader. Doesn't sound like he's simply Prime's second.

Sledge wrote:Rodimus Prime sucks ass.

That's a very good point.

bookofjunon wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

bookofjunon wrote:There is an old toy commercial that has Optimus' voice saying that Ultra Magnus is the new Autobot leader. It's probably on youtube somewhere...

You meen one of these????

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y1Cy6TQbw_Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pUNUWzKbdyY&feature=related
But he calls him the powerful Autobot comander and a born leader not the leader

Here check out these Japanese adds.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=S7ZOtSO3n38&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wsKIXzHhZT8&feature=related

Sounds to me like they mean he's the new leader. Doesn't sound like he's simply Prime's second.

Sledge wrote:Rodimus Prime sucks ass.

That's a very good point.

The smily face meens I was cracking a joke when I said that.But since you seem to be on a more serious note then I am.....you can take any meaning you like from that commercial but the fact is that they did not say that Ultra Magnuss was the new leader or the leader at all.
But in Rodimus Prime's toy commercial they did in fact call him the New Autobot leader.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=039xYApI8TE
Even if Takara thought that Ultra Magnus was going to be the New leader there's no way that Hasbro thought it nor would it have been ment in any toy commercial's that he would be the new leader.
Think about it.The movie was already written and in production a year before those toy commercial's we're even made.Hasbro already knew who was going to be the new leader.

At best maybe they wanted to mislead the fans a little by useing the word commander so as to not spoil the plot of the movie.

I'll refer you to my earlier post. I find that extremly unlikely. Why would Hasbro give a damn about ruining the plot of what, to them, is a commercial?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

bookofjunon wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

bookofjunon wrote:There is an old toy commercial that has Optimus' voice saying that Ultra Magnus is the new Autobot leader. It's probably on youtube somewhere...

You meen one of these????

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y1Cy6TQbw_Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pUNUWzKbdyY&feature=related
But he calls him the powerful Autobot comander and a born leader not the leader

Here check out these Japanese adds.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=S7ZOtSO3n38&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wsKIXzHhZT8&feature=related

Sounds to me like they mean he's the new leader. Doesn't sound like he's simply Prime's second.

Sledge wrote:Rodimus Prime sucks ass.

That's a very good point.

The smily face meens I was cracking a joke when I said that.But since you seem to be on a more serious note then I am.....you can take any meaning you like from that commercial but the fact is that they did not say that Ultra Magnuss was the new leader or the leader at all.
But in Rodimus Prime's toy commercial they did in fact call him the New Autobot leader.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=039xYApI8TE
Even if Takara thought that Ultra Magnus was going to be the New leader there's no way that Hasbro thought it nor would it have been ment in any toy commercial's that he would be the new leader.
Think about it.The movie was already written and in production a year before those toy commercial's we're even made.Hasbro already knew who was going to be the new leader.

At best maybe they wanted to mislead the fans a little by useing the word commander so as to not spoil the plot of the movie.

I'm just saying I remember store catalogues from when I was a kid saying Ultra Magnus was the new leader. To me those commercials say exactly that as well. The impression is there. Aldo, Ultra Magnus was released before Rodimus Prime.

I'd also like to point out that for a long time, Optimus Prime was going to be the hero of the movie and still remain leader. The decision to axe him and make it Hot Rod was not their first decision. Those toy commercials would have been produced around the same time as the movie was being made as well, possibly even before the movie was finished or the script finalized.

Sledge wrote:I'll refer you to my earlier post. I find that extremly unlikely. Why would Hasbro give a damn about ruining the plot of what, to them, is a commercial?

Ofcourse they would cared about spoiling the plot of the 86 movie.The cartoon may have been a 22 minute toy commercial but the move most certainly was not.

Transformers the Movie was the first (and arguably last) time that any significant effort was put into a Transformers cartoon. Some of the best animation ever seen in America at the time, combined with fantastic music, well known voice talents (Orson Welles, Leonard Nimoy, Erik Idle, Judd Nelson), an adult-oriented script in which characters actually got angry, swore, and died (often senselessly), and the much anticipated final battle between Optimus Prime and Megatron, made a film that simply couldn’t be missed. This was also the first time that background information was given serious attention in the Transformers Universe. The emergence of Unicron, the Quintesson, and the Matrix of Leadership laid the groundwork for a compelling Transformers history and
universe that remained mostly consistent through the rest of Generation One, Beast Wars, and Beast Machines.

Why would they go to all that effert and then waste it by revealing the plot of the fil in a 20 second toy ad.That would not be very bussness savy...and you can say what you want about Hasbro in the 80's but the one thing you cant deny is that they knew how to turn a profit.

What profit would there have been in trowing away a year and a half of work and money investment on the film by telling us the plot in a toy ad.

I'd be interested in meeting these "Many others" this kid claims don't consider the comics worth anything... And is it just me, or does he come across as one of those ignorant people who stand across the street from you yelling "HEATHEN! HEATHEN!!!" Every time you say something bad about Sodimus?

Sorry, Sto, but I don't buy it. How does it give away the plot of the film to mention on their tech specs that Roddy and Glavy are the new faction leaders? If anything, that would increase audiences for the film, as you'd want to see what happened to Prime and Megs.

Also, have you read the tech specs for Roddy and Galvy? They were very clearly not written for the characters introduced in the movie.

bookofjunon wrote:I'm just saying I remember store catalogues from when I was a kid saying Ultra Magnus was the new leader.

Witch catalogues????I used to collect the ones from Macys ,Service Merchandise and J.C.Penny and I remember them all saying city commander not leader.And last X-Mas one of the other members posted scans of the Toys r us catalog from 86 and it also said city commander....hopefully hes reading this topic and will post it again.

bookofjunon wrote: To me those commercials say exactly that as well. The impression is there.

The impression may have been there but they did not exactly say that UM was the new leader.The fact is that the commercial for Rodimus did "exactly" call him the new leader.

bookofjunon wrote: Aldo, Ultra Magnus was released before Rodimus Prime.

Rodimus and Ultra Magnus were released in the same year....with Ultra Magnus being released in the first wave and Rodimus in the 2nd wave.They were at most a few months apart.But the toy adds were all released about the same time.

bookofjunon wrote:I'd also like to point out that for a long time, Optimus Prime was going to be the hero of the movie and still remain leader. The decision to axe him and make it Hot Rod was not their first decision.

No it wasnt there first decision but from very early on it was desided to kill off as many of the season 1 and 2 transformers to make way for the new toyline and that inclued Optimus Prime and Megatron.And I would assume that the moment that they desided not to use the Upgraded power convoy toy mold as a upgrade for Prime that the question as to his living or dieing was settled.

Even the most earlt scripts had the movie following the character formula used in Star Wars Luke Skywalker.

bookofjunon wrote:Those toy commercials would have been produced around the same time as the movie was being made as well, possibly even before the movie was finished or the script finalized.

Doubtful.If you look at the Ultra Magnus toy commercial you can see characters like Redalert and the combaticons.Here look
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y1Cy6TQbw_Q
It is a well knowen fact that when the movie was being produce and animated that most of the animation models for a good number of the season 2 transformers were not finalized yet much less any of the combiners from the end of season 2 so that would mean that UM's toy add was produced after the movie had already be animated.
More proof of this is found in the test footage of the movie.
here look
http://youtube.com/watch?v=f0HSsSpoJV0
As you can see Ultra Magnus was in his original Diaclone colors not in the colors we know him to have....witch suggest that by the time that the UM toy add was animated the film had already be at least partly finished being animated and the script had to be complete by then because with out the script how could they animate anything???

It's like, in the TV Commercial advertising Mags and Galvy, Galvatron sounds a lot more stable, too.

Sledge wrote:Sorry, Sto, but I don't buy it. How does it give away the plot of the film to mention on their tech specs that Roddy and Glavy are the new faction leaders? If anything, that would increase audiences for the film, as you'd want to see what happened to Prime and Megs.

Also, have you read the tech specs for Roddy and Galvy? They were very clearly not written for the characters introduced in the movie.

It could have gone ether way.Theres no real way of knowing that it would have increase the numbers of the audiences if they knew before hand but you have to admit that if it had been on the spec's a great number of the films big scenes may have been dimished.
Remember this was 1986 and it was well before the days of the internet and great numbers of people knowing about films from leaked information.
If they had placed the info on the specs we would have knowen that Optimus was going to die almost 5 months before the film was released.We would know the both Hot Rod and Galvatron would be upgraded.
I think that if the information got out that early it would have lowered numbers in the audiences and that would have been a disaster....the film didnt do that well in the theatures.

Wait up, you're doing 2+2 and getting 5. Why would mentioning that Roddy and Galvy are the new leaders have to reveal that Prime was dead, and Megs upgraded?

bookofjunon wrote:I'm just saying I remember store catalogues from when I was a kid saying Ultra Magnus was the new leader.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Witch catalogues????I used to collect the ones from Macys ,Service Merchandise and J.C.Penny and I remember them all saying city commander not leader.And last X-Mas one of the other members posted scans of the Toys r us catalog from 86 and it also said city commander....hopefully hes reading this topic and will post it again.

No offense dude, but it's which, not witch (just a little pet peeve, not tryin to be an ass). Catalogues. Well the Canadian Sears Wish Book, Consumers Distributing, Zellers, K-Mart (when it was in Canada), Woolco, Woolworths, and a few others...

bookofjunon wrote:To me those commercials say exactly that as well. The impression is there.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:The impression may have been there but they did not exactly say that UM was the new leader.The fact is that the commercial for Rodimus did "exactly" call him the new leader.

Again, your saying my, amoung that of others is wrong. As I said at the time, the impression was UM was going to be leader until they released Rodimus.

bookofjunon wrote: Also, Ultra Magnus was released before Rodimus Prime.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Rodimus and Ultra Magnus were released in the same year....with Ultra Magnus being released in the first wave and Rodimus in the 2nd wave.They were at most a few months apart.But the toy adds were all released about the same time.

Same year, UM was first, not all about the same time. Since UM came before Roddy I am still correct. One did come first.

bookofjunon wrote:I'd also like to point out that for a long time, Optimus Prime was going to be the hero of the movie and still remain leader. The decision to axe him and make it Hot Rod was not their first decision.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:No it wasnt there first decision but from very early on it was desided to kill off as many of the season 1 and 2 transformers to make way for the new toyline and that inclued Optimus Prime and Megatron.And I would assume that the moment that they desided not to use the Upgraded power convoy toy mold as a upgrade for Prime that the question as to his living or dieing was settled.

Even the most earlt scripts had the movie following the character formula used in Star Wars Luke Skywalker.

Sorry dude, you're incorrect.

bookofjunon wrote:Those toy commercials would have been produced around the same time as the movie was being made as well, possibly even before the movie was finished or the script finalized.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Doubtful.If you look at the Ultra Magnus toy commercial you can see characters like Redalert and the combaticons.Here look
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y1Cy6TQbw_Q
It is a well knowen fact that when the movie was being produce and animated that most of the animation models for a good number of the season 2 transformers were not finalized yet much less any of the combiners from the end of season 2 so that would mean that UM's toy add was produced after the movie had already be animated.
More proof of this is found in the test footage of the movie.
here look
http://youtube.com/watch?v=f0HSsSpoJV0
As you can see Ultra Magnus was in his original Diaclone colors not in the colors we know him to have....witch suggest that by the time that the UM toy add was animated the film had already be at least partly finished being animated and the script had to be complete by then because with out the script how could they animate anything???

You're arguing semantics, none of which you can prove. You have a theory, a good one I'll acknowledge, but you don't know for sure and yours is no less valid than mine.