The Energon Pub

I believe most of us are familiar with nostalgia goggles, but for those who aren't familiar with the term, I shall explain. When somebody is watching a series or reading a book from their childhood while looking through nostalgia goggles means they are completely ignoring the flaws because they loved it as a child and choose to deny there were any faults with it at all. If you're looking at something with nostalgia goggles right now, try taking them off at look at it again. Notice something different? What's that, it's not as good as you remember? That means it's working!

Now, before I go on, I need to provide some background on me. I first got into Transformers during the Unicron Trilogy (I was 3 years old when Energon started). I loved those series when I was little, but now that a lot of time has passed, let me take off my nostalgia goggles and see what I think of them now. Armada is extremely rushed through production, the writing has no thought or effort put into it, and it's just irritating to watch. The only things Armada has going for it are the best incarnation of Starscream ever and a decent ending story arc. Energon is the absolute worst Transformers series of them all in my opinion. It's plot ends halfway through and the rest of the series is the writers frantically trying to figure out what to do for the second half. I can't believe that piece of sh*t was my introduction to Transformers! Cybertron is okay. It has it's legitimately good moments, but it isn't perfect by any means. The dubbing is terrible, which seems to be a running theme throughout the Unicron Trilogy, some plots feel kinda rushed, and they always have very distracting conversation during transformation stock footage in the dub! It's annoying and distracting! Cybertron, despite its several flaws, is definitely the most passable of the Unicron Trilogy.

Now, those who were around for G1 or have seen G1 at some point who haven't seen it in a long time, guess what, G1 was heavily flawed! I know, it sound blasphemous, but it's true! While the first season of G1 was pretty good by 80's Cartoon standards (translation: extremely low standards), it was still flawed, but what good 80's Cartoon didn't have a few flaws? Then we get to season 2, which is just a long series of stupid, incoherent bullsh*t that completely throws continuity out of a window and then goes out and finishes it off by beating it with a baseball bat and shooting it's vital organs 3 times each organ! I apologize if that was too morbid for you, but that's the only way I feel I can properly communicate my hatred for season 2. Season 3 was definitely better than season 2, but was still pretty flawed. Some dumb episodes, lack of characters who survived the movie showing up, and Wheelie and Daniel. I'm not even going into the train wreck that is The Rebirth three-parter. Just forget it exists and watch the Japanese Headmasters series, it's much more well put together than The Rebirth.

Well, that's about all I have to say, feel free to discuss your thoughts on this subject below! I'm kinda hoping this doesn't make me seem mean spirited. See you guys whenever I decide to post something again!

DigitalBrave3 wrote:Now, those who were around for G1 or have seen G1 at some point who haven't seen it in a long time, guess what, G1 was heavily flawed! I know, it sound blasphemous, but it's true! While the first season of G1 was pretty good by 80's Cartoon standards (translation: extremely low standards), it was still flawed, but what good 80's Cartoon didn't have a few flaws? Then we get to season 2, which is just a long series of stupid, incoherent bullsh*t that completely throws continuity out of a window and then goes out and finishes it off by beating it with a baseball bat and shooting it's vital organs 3 times each organ! I apologize if that was too morbid for you, but that's the only way I feel I can properly communicate my hatred for season 2. Season 3 was definitely better than season 2, but was still pretty flawed. Some dumb episodes, lack of characters who survived the movie showing up, and Wheelie and Daniel. I'm not even going into the train wreck that is The Rebirth three-parter. Just forget it exists and watch the Japanese Headmasters series, it's much more well put together than The Rebirth.

But see, this is just YOUR opinion. You'd be hard pressed NOT to find someone who grew up with it that DOESN'T acknowledge its faults.

What you're not seeing though, those of us who grew up with it? We're adults, we deal with work, with paying bills, families ... you know what G1 does for us? Despite its flaws, it reminds us of simple, less stressful times.

You call them Nostalgia Goggles? It's an okay name, but for me, an 80's cartoon that had animation errors and was nothing more than an extended TV commercial to sell toys, well ... that's a reminder of a simpler time in life.

Burn states it perfectly here. I grew up on the G1 cartoon. And it provides relief from the pressures of succeding at work and providing for a fam. In fact the flaws are oddly what make it so endearing imo. Flaws can be found in just about anything. For me Transformers is the most inconsequnential part of my life and yet my toys and memories of watching the old show and all I associated with it back then bring a contentment and simplistic sense of joy.

Burn wrote:

DigitalBrave3 wrote:Now, those who were around for G1 or have seen G1 at some point who haven't seen it in a long time, guess what, G1 was heavily flawed! I know, it sound blasphemous, but it's true! While the first season of G1 was pretty good by 80's Cartoon standards (translation: extremely low standards), it was still flawed, but what good 80's Cartoon didn't have a few flaws? Then we get to season 2, which is just a long series of stupid, incoherent bullsh*t that completely throws continuity out of a window and then goes out and finishes it off by beating it with a baseball bat and shooting it's vital organs 3 times each organ! I apologize if that was too morbid for you, but that's the only way I feel I can properly communicate my hatred for season 2. Season 3 was definitely better than season 2, but was still pretty flawed. Some dumb episodes, lack of characters who survived the movie showing up, and Wheelie and Daniel. I'm not even going into the train wreck that is The Rebirth three-parter. Just forget it exists and watch the Japanese Headmasters series, it's much more well put together than The Rebirth.

But see, this is just YOUR opinion. You'd be hard pressed NOT to find someone who grew up with it that DOESN'T acknowledge its faults.

What you're not seeing though, those of us who grew up with it? We're adults, we deal with work, with paying bills, families ... you know what G1 does for us? Despite its flaws, it reminds us of simple, less stressful times.

You call them Nostalgia Goggles? It's an okay name, but for me, an 80's cartoon that had animation errors and was nothing more than an extended TV commercial to sell toys, well ... that's a reminder of a simpler time in life.

I'm sorry, I admit I got way too passionate here. It's a lot of stuff I barely even meant. It was probably a bad idea to even post this at all.

DigitalBrave3 wrote:I'm sorry, I admit I got way too passionate here. It's a lot of stuff I barely even meant. It was probably a bad idea to even post this at all.

No way was it a bad idea mate. It prompts discussion! It got me out of my funk and posting.

Burn wrote:

DigitalBrave3 wrote:I'm sorry, I admit I got way too passionate here. It's a lot of stuff I barely even meant. It was probably a bad idea to even post this at all.

No way was it a bad idea mate. It prompts discussion! It got me out of my funk and posting.

I think that's just what I needed to hear today.

I have seen the faults, but I see them with all my fandoms. I don't see too many of the faults so much in the newer stuff (aside from Bayformers, but that revitalized my interest so it's not all that bad, just gratuitous). I was too young for Generation 1 as I was born in 84, but I did go back and watch it all. When I did I was surprised I caught what I did when I was about 3 or 4 (mostly the season 3 and the stuff from "season 5" re-airing of episodes). Back then I had no clue what was going on aside from "robots smash!" and enjoying the mindless destruction of it all. That and I liked Grimlock because he was a T.rex. I do remember having an Optimus Prime and maybe Sludge or Snarl from G1 at some point in 86/87. I can't recall exactly which one it was or what exactly happened to it as I got older. I was bad with my toys until I got older and grew up to value my toys. At the age of three I was also taken in by dinosaurs and it was my primary interest. It was the height of Dino-Mania and I caught the tail end of Dino-Riders and got the Playskool Definitely Dinosaurs toys. When I was older I got into Star Wars and Beast Wars and that was roughly in 1997. My interests switched from the good guys to the bad guys as I got older too. Keep in mind, my primary interest is dinosaurs (and subsequently Jurassic Park to a point, but that's died down a lot seeing how the JW toy line sucked and there's no collector focus). When I got into Beast Wars, I loved it and enjoyed that incarnation of Megatron most of all. As I've gotten older I've gone back and watched it all. The only thing I haven't re-watched was Beast Machines due to the lack of streaming services for it. While there are some gems in BW, the command code stuff is definitely overbearing in the earlier episodes of season one. I still enjoy the series. After Beast Wars and some slight disappointment with Beast Machines I tried the other Transformers shows that popped up afterwards. The Car Robots and Unicron Trilogy imports specifically. I was mixed with them and eventually lost interest because I didn't particularly like the new continuity they created. I had a preference for the G1/Beast Era stuff at the time. I would love to give them another chance while also knowing the faults I do. Specifically the Unicron trilogy.

Then in 2007 when Bay's first film came out I got interested again. Bay is definitely not a masterful director or anything of that sort if you're looking for anything cerebral (which the TF series could benefit from something cerebral). I mean he's all lens flare and action, non-stop action. If you like substance then he's not a good pick for that reason alone. Plus he doesn't seem like a pleasant human being from what I've heard about him. Though honestly I would just prefer to keep the fact he could be a jerk to the side.

In the end, the TF films though are good fun for me to enjoy periodically. It's very much mindless fun. I eventually went back and watched all of G1, the original movie, and Beast Wars. I did enjoy it immensely. I can see pluses and references from G1 in the other continuities. I do feel some aspects were improved upon from G1 to Bayformers, but people can definitely disagree. I know when watching G1 I was annoyed when Optimus died and Megatron was reformatted within minutes of each other's final appearances. Galvatron didn't really appeal to me like he used to come season 3 of G1. I kind of considered Megatron the better commander after watching how Galvatron was omnicidally insane. There were some gems in that season, but I preferred when Optimus came back. Rodimus also seemed to doubt himself too much and that was problematic. Peter Cullen and Frank Welker I do feel are the heart and soul of the franchise. Both of them.

After my viewing of the first film I caught Animated and while I didn't initially like it, I do want to try to go back and watch it, because I admittedly didn't give it much of a chance in the first place. Transformers Prime I enjoyed, despite the flaws it had. The new RiD I'm on the fence about, but it's okay. I've enjoyed a lot of the offerings from the "Aligned" continuity and the Bayformers films are admittedly a guilty pleasure too. I still do enjoy G1 and the Beast Era too.

What I really like? The IDW comics, specifically "More than Meets the Eye". It continues to impress, but like all things it does have faults. I love the change of allegiance done by Megatron in the comics. It is definitely something different and something I have enjoyed. I haven't yet to check out the earlier IDW comics (I did read All Hail Megatron), the original Marvel Comics (US versions), nor the Japanese continuity entirely. Kiss Players is also heavily disturbing.

I hate Transformers: Cybertron and Transformers: Energon. They were still a big part of simpler and more joyful times for me, but I can't let my nostalgia get in the way of my entertainment choices. It's one of the worst TV shows in existence and I vomit having to watch one scene from either series.

I guess I'm just dead inside.

PrymeStriker wrote:I guess I'm just dead inside.

*hugs PrymeStriker*

Burn wrote:

PrymeStriker wrote:I guess I'm just dead inside.

*hugs PrymeStriker*

Ugh. All this loving and hugging. You 2 need a room?

But to answer the OP, Burn stated it perfectly with his 1st response, I have no need to further elaborate, except maybe add a little personal tidbit. I have suffered from a slight case of nostalgia goggles in the past, when it came to the G1 Marvel comics and G1 toys. I was never a fan of the G1 cartoon, though I do enjoy an episode from time to time. I do love the G1 animated movie, and hold it in high regard. As for the Marvel comics, I consider them to be THE definite G1 continuity and compare everything to it. I used to think it was almost flawless, especially after Simon Furman took it over, but recent reflections on the franchise as a whole showed me some things that could be improved on. I still think it's superior to any comic continuity that has been produced since. War Within came close, but it wasn't allowed to flourish, so it can't really count. IDW's MTMTE is pretty good, but it's been lacking lately. Marvel was consistent throughout. Same with the G1 toys. They all had their faults, but they're still high on my list, though obviously engineering and design have grown by leaps and bounds in the last 30 years, and if I get a representative of a G1 character to go on my shelf, it's most likely a MP figure.

Oh, this thread is wonderful.

I can't even begin to tell you guys how many shows there are that I watched and loved as a kid but which I wish were really as good as I remember them and being and aren't as cringeworthy as they truly are.

The "reminder is simpler times" argument doesn't hold weight with me since that would only apply with the specific shows that I watched and loved back then and which I can still watch and enjoy now without cringing as much because they were legitimately good quality shows even back then (i.e. - Batman: TAS, Superman: TAS, other DCAU cartoons, the better seasons of Power Rangers, Animaniacs, Pinky and the Brain, X-Men: Evolution, DuckTales, most of the Disney Afternoon cartoons, Carmen Sandiego, Big Guy and Rusty, Men In Black, any anime I saw that was dubbed by Bandai Entertainment, and more).

The rest of the shows from my childhood that don't hold up don't "remind me of simpler times", but instead remind me of how much simpler I was. How my tastes and standards were lower and how I didn't have as firm a grasp on recognizing quality as I believed myself to have, and I was the kind of kid who did recognize when one kind of series/story was better than another (i.e. - the various Digimon anime being better stories than the Pokemon anime, the In Space through Time Force seasons of Power Rangers being better stories than the Mighty Morphin seasons, etc.). That may sound a little arrogant on my part, but I don't enjoy watching something that annoys/frustrates me or feels like it's treating me like I'm stupid. And unfortunately for me, a lot of shows I watched and liked as a kid feel like that to me now.

As far as TF cartoons are concerned, I grew up with Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and RiD 2001 in elementary school, and with G1 (via the Rhino DVDs) and the Unicron Trilogy in middle school (Animated was my high school cartoon and Prime, Rescue Bots, and RID 2015 are my adulthood cartoons). From my first viewings of Beast Wars through Cybertron, I loved them all unashamedly, even Energon, completely blind to any of its faults.

Now as an adult, my opinions have changed. Beast Wars is still good. RiD is imperfect but still fun. G1 is incredibly flawed with only a small amout of good parts. Armada has a terrible dub. Energon is just bad and full of wasted potential. And Cybertron is imperfect but still decent. The only show I feel I still have any "nostalgia goggles" for is Beast Machines, which I will admit that any and all previous re-watchings I did of it were with my rose-tinted glasses on and I still find myself unable to see the things that people hated about it as bothersome to me. What I would like to do at some point is to re-watch both Beast Wars and Beast Machines from start to finish but from an objective standpoint so as to finally see what all the fuss is about with people's griping over Beast Machines.

But as it stands, the freakish alien animal designs of the Maximals were always cool to me since it made sense to me that "alien animals" would look that freakish and otherworldly, Nightscream's design and character never bothered me, Botanica's design and character never bothered me, the "nature vs. technology" theme that everyone gripes about didn't bother me because the Season 2 opener had Primal realize that the true message was instead about seeking an even balance between the two rather than one needing to dominate the other (thereby making the true theme actually be about "harmony vs. extremism"), Primal becoming more spiritual never bothered me since I liked how he became the epitome of both brain and brawn, Megatron practicing honor in Rattrap's transformation episode didn't bother me since it felt like he finally learned how honor had always bested him before (i.e. - Dinobot et al.) and decided to use it to his advantage, Silverbolt switching from a knight in shining armor to The Dark Knight didn bother me since his spark had been through the Pit and back during his time as Jetstorm (a torturous experience like that is enough to change anyone), Rhinox's turning evil didn't bother me since it'd happened before in Beast Wars and here it was clear that he was once again not in his right mind (what with Richard Newman playing Rhinox's "turning evil" scene as snarling and yelling like a madman), and other things that bothered everyone just didn't bother me.

The only complaint that I can sympathize with is Megatron's sudden hatred for his beast mode (because it was organic-based) making no sense, as it really doesn't make sense since he never showed such disdain towards organic beast modes beforehand and we never got to see how he came to be in that new mindset. Plus, he went to all the trouble he went through in "Master Blaster" to get his dragon beast mode, and embraced it for how powerful it was, so for him to suddenly want to get rid of it because of its being "unclean" really did not make much sense at all.

Sabrblade wrote:The only complaint that I can sympathize with is Megatron's sudden hatred for his beast mode (because it was organic-based) making no sense, as it really doesn't make sense since he never showed such disdain towards organic beast modes beforehand and we never got to see how he came to be in that new mindset. Plus, he went to all the trouble he went through in "Master Blaster" to get his dragon beast mode, and embraced it for how powerful it was, so for him to suddenly want to get rid of it because of its being "unclean" really did not make much sense at all.

This was my main thing in Beast Machines that I also had issue with. Him demonstrating honor and appearing to have learned from the past with Dinobot, not so much. Megatron had a complete 180 here regarding his beast mode versus how he was before. In a way I kind of assumed it had something to do with coming out of transwarp before the Autobot shuttle. I thought it was possible that he endured some crap regarding beast modes, and it would've been great if fiction or what have you explored that for him to come to that decision to purge it or see beast modes as a problem.

this thread officially ruined my childhood

but seriously. it is possible to have nostalgia for something (that isk, the feeling of warmth and good memories it gives you) and still be able to see it is holey as swiss cheese. G1 is amazing despite it's flaws, it's reset button at the end of every episode(Decepticons retreat, autobots victorious) it's glaring animation and continuity errors.

Another good example of this is the 1978 Superman movie.