The Energon Pub

If the third installment in the transformers movies is indeed darker toned, then we should expect more tragic moments than before. I know there have been some Autobot deaths in the past films, (Jazz, Arcee [Chromia+Flareup/Elita 1], Jetfire, and Optimus [comes back to life though]) but if the story is more fleshed out as confirmed, we may see a death as/more tragic [than] Optimus' death in ROTF. Who's death may be the most tragic? The candidates are: Bumblebee (you saw this coming), Optimus (seeing Prime die AGAIN is actually ticking me off), and...Ironhide? Yes, Ironhide. For some reason, I feel Ironhide will be the one getting canned in DOTM for the following reasons:
1. He's a character who's had actual character development in the past two films.
2. He's a character who is generally liked/loved by the majority of TF fans universally.
3. The fact that he along with Bumblebee and Starscream have been pushed to leader class toy status (though Starscream deserved it to begin with)
and 4. He is Optimus' oldest friend. That alone may play a key factor in DOTM.
I may be wrong or completely off, but I am concerned about Ironhide. It could be another bot to have the tragic spotlight though. What do you guys think?

The leader class idea is interesting.

I've put my suspicions up elsewhere and there are basically plenty of candidates, but Ironhide does bring in a sentimental value that many of the others can't be claimed to have.

I look at this way: as long as Ratchet makes it into any next movie, some others have a chance of lasting through and beyond any next movie too (ignoring the fact that Starscream can clip his arm back into place and Jolt can reanimate spare parts). Any Autobot death is sad if we're not gonna see him in action with his mates who won't arrive until any next film, but there's worth in the loss as long as Ratchet makes it out alive.He's not the only nexus in the survival contingency, but he's a hefty one.

Sizewise, Ironhide leaves a glaring gap in the Autobot lineup.

Ironhide I believe was absent at the Kennedy Space Center filming. I don't know about anywhere else, but that could possibly reinforce the theory here.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Ironhide I believe was absent at the Kennedy Space Center filming. I don't know about anywhere else, but that could possibly reinforce the theory here.

They said he was with Lennox somewhere, I think "snowy". And I'm all for debating that the movie do have character development in them, but...when did Ironhide?

The only ones I can think of are Jetfire, Wheelie, and the twins. Robots, I mean.

SlyTF1 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Ironhide I believe was absent at the Kennedy Space Center filming. I don't know about anywhere else, but that could possibly reinforce the theory here.

They said he was with Lennox somewhere, I think "snowy". And I'm all for debating that the movie do have character development in them, but...when did Ironhide?

Oh...good...I don't want Clint Eastbot to die. I was hoping he was elsewhere.

I just hope that they (Ironhide, Ratchet, Sideswipe) just get some (no, a whole lot of) more screentime and action.

But I definately don't want them to die. Neither the Twins, these two were funny.

You can check this. I posted it a while ago.

http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/sh ... post161591

Movie Ironhide's characterization has always reminded me of Worf from Star Trek TNG. Supposedly this big bad-dog who can kick tail on demand, yet we never actually see him do it so much. I really hope hide can break himself off some this time. That shot from the trailer against 2 Dreads has promise.

I hope he doesn't die. I like his character very much. If he does have to go, I hope he goes BW Dinobot Code of Hero-style and takes out a lot of Cons, as we see the demo derby moment in the trailer. Maybe Shockwave can stab and blast him like Megatron did Prime in RoTF, giving a great emotional moment for the fans and establishing Shockwave as a ruthless bastard.

Ironhide had character development? What? All the robots in the films (and most Transformer franchises, pretty much only excluding Animated and a little Rodimus in G1) have gotten no development at all.

Starscream GaGa wrote:Ironhide had character development? What? All the robots in the films (and most Transformer franchises, pretty much only excluding Animated and a little Rodimus in G1) have gotten no development at all.

Ignorance is bliss...

I'd go into detail about thier detail, but if you haven't goten it at this point then you either won't get it, or are refusing to see it.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:Ironhide had character development? What? All the robots in the films (and most Transformer franchises, pretty much only excluding Animated and a little Rodimus in G1) have gotten no development at all.

Ignorance is bliss...

I'd go into detail about thier detail, but if you haven't goten it at this point then you either won't get it, or are refusing to see it.

Translation:
"I have no proper argument, so I'm gonna act like I'm smart and elite when really I am the opposite".

Thanks for your input. it was a little harsh for me to say bar Animated and a little Rodimus G1, as I wasn't even thinking about Beast era and comics, but there IS NO DEVELOPMENT FOR ROBOTS in the movies.

Okay, well...

If Ironhide WAS gonna die (though I hope not), they could at least give him a big finish, to remember

Like "fighting 'till the last drop of energon"
or "fighting the main villain and, while being successful at first, in the end somehow overcome and mercilessly killed"
or "protecting friends from the D'Cons and getting a fatal shot"

'Cause he's a cool character; he shouldn't be just killed of without it even shown or mentioned. Also, IF he'd be killed, he should have at least some sort of remembral ceremony; not like with Jazz.

Ironhides' fighting style, in TF1, was a big technological advancement for Ironhides' everywhere, and says a LOT about what other oldies like Kup "have seen" and have got hidden up their sleeves.
Tho I didn't consider his Tumbling act to be his ONLY fighting style when I first saw it, but instead thought "just something he picked up elsewhere and applied to the Cityfight in order to balance out events-the point of a veterans' knowledge", they kinda stuck with it.
Compared to the follow-up fighting styles as featured in Sideswipe and now Optimus SupaDupa Hulk "Hollywood" Prime and most likely the wreckers, I can see him getting superceded.
Compared to the rest, his signature diving&tumbling can now be treated as erratic and even eccentric: Where it once served to Smokescreen Ratchet and the others from enemy targeting, he's now liable to stray into friendly fire lanes and even crash land into friendly fireteams or other allies trying to maneuvre.
He deserves some close combat airtime, regardless of who they kill off..

Starscream GaGa wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:Ironhide had character development? What? All the robots in the films (and most Transformer franchises, pretty much only excluding Animated and a little Rodimus in G1) have gotten no development at all.

Ignorance is bliss...

I'd go into detail about thier detail, but if you haven't goten it at this point then you either won't get it, or are refusing to see it.

Translation:
"I have no proper argument, so I'm gonna act like I'm smart and elite when really I am the opposite".

And I agree, mostly with G1 Rodimus. (Like you didn't see that coming.) But I think Beast Wars is the best written TF continuity to date. Yeah, the Bay movies have no character development, and only the 2007 movie has a good story. Credit goes mostly to Orci and Kurtzman, not Bay. Bay did good with what he had.

If he does "cop a packet" I hope he does better than Jazz.I was disgusted at the way Jazz checked out....he is one of my all time faves.

I also didnt relaise that the Arcee bikes died......

yeah i didnt think all three arcee bikes died, i thought 2 bit it hard, and one just looked wounded...

as for a T3 death oh please, please let it be bumblebee! oh gods PLEEEEEEEEEASE let it be bumblebee. hopefully he dies falling down stairs or slipping in the bath tub... i just cant take BB saviour of the universe ultimate superhero action any more...

shadowynne wrote:as for a T3 death oh please, please let it be bumblebee! oh gods PLEEEEEEEEEASE let it be bumblebee. hopefully he dies falling down stairs or slipping in the bath tub... i just cant take BB saviour of the universe ultimate superhero action any more...

WORD.

Alas, I'd heard from a fairly reliable source that it IS 'Hide, and he dies, and it's a total blow off scene, no great big moment of angst, but about as ZOOOMBAM as the Arcees.

HK, friend: I so hope you're lying to me.

Starscream GaGa wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:Ironhide had character development? What? All the robots in the films (and most Transformer franchises, pretty much only excluding Animated and a little Rodimus in G1) have gotten no development at all.

Ignorance is bliss...

I'd go into detail about their detail, but if you haven't gotten it at this point then you either won't get it, or are refusing to see it.

Translation:
"I have no proper argument, so I'm gonna act like I'm smart and elite when really I am the opposite".

Negative ghost rider. The fact is this argument has gone on time and time again since the first movie. Rarely does it ever result in changing the opposites opinion, and given your first post, as well as your response, i doubt anything i say would change that. But to humor myself, I'll play.

Starscream GaGa wrote:
Thanks for your input. it was a little harsh for me to say bar Animated and a little Rodimus G1, as I wasn't even thinking about Beast era and comics, but there IS NO DEVELOPMENT FOR ROBOTS in the movies.

Admittedly, compared to most other TF universe, character development in the movies is weak. Though more present in some than others, it is their.

I'm not going to go into full detail for each bot that did have development. I don't have the time for that. But people starting post complaining about Optimus being to "blood thirsty", or claiming the twins were a racial stereo type, or BB radio voice being overly played.. These are signs of development. Whether people liked them or not is irrelevant. You don't get this much hype over a Characters that don't have development. So while you may not see it, or don't have the connection with the characters would like, it was there.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:Ironhide had character development? What? All the robots in the films (and most Transformer franchises, pretty much only excluding Animated and a little Rodimus in G1) have gotten no development at all.

Ignorance is bliss...

I'd go into detail about their detail, but if you haven't gotten it at this point then you either won't get it, or are refusing to see it.

Translation:
"I have no proper argument, so I'm gonna act like I'm smart and elite when really I am the opposite".

Negative ghost rider. The fact is this argument has gone on time and time again since the first movie. Rarely does it ever result in changing the opposites opinion, and given your first post, as well as your response, i doubt anything i say would change that. But to humor myself, I'll play.

Starscream GaGa wrote:
Thanks for your input. it was a little harsh for me to say bar Animated and a little Rodimus G1, as I wasn't even thinking about Beast era and comics, but there IS NO DEVELOPMENT FOR ROBOTS in the movies.

Admittedly, compared to most other TF universe, character development in the movies is weak. Though more present in some than others, it is their.

I'm not going to go into full detail for each bot that did have development. I don't have the time for that. But people starting post complaining about Optimus being to "blood thirsty", or claiming the twins were a racial stereo type, or BB radio voice being overly played.. These are signs of development. Whether people liked them or not is irrelevant. You don't get this much hype over a Characters that don't have development. So while you may not see it, or don't have the connection with the characters would like, it was there.

I agree with you on many levels.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:Ironhide had character development? What? All the robots in the films (and most Transformer franchises, pretty much only excluding Animated and a little Rodimus in G1) have gotten no development at all.

Ignorance is bliss...

I'd go into detail about thier detail, but if you haven't goten it at this point then you either won't get it, or are refusing to see it.

im sorry but this is one of the most condescending posts i have seen in any forum in a long time.

Ironhide's character development went from aggressive, shoot first ask questions military character too shoot first ....

and the proof of this. look at his lines. the few that he has, how can one say that he has development when his dialogue is limited to reaction lines.

im with shamone on this. i think people are confusing behaviour with devolopment. ironhide being aggressive is behavior. finding out why he is aggressive is development.

the twins acting the way they do is behaviour, finding out why they act the way they do is development...

frikken huge difference...

the debate isnt that the TFs dont have character, its that thier characters are one dimensional...

I also believe Ironhide will die in DOTM. Specifically I believe he will shot by Shockwave. Possibly whenever Shockwave is first introduced to the autobots he takes a cheap shot at Ironhide with his laser gun arm thing. Also I noticed in the pictures of the super bowl commercial (posted one below), specifically the scenes of optimus flying over where shockwave is spotted, you can see Ratchet and Bumblebee fighting the cons but you don't see Ironhide. I'm wondering if he died already and maybe thats why bumblebee was so upset in the trailer. But he could also just be fighting somewhere else.

shamone and shadowynne ,

I'm going to have to disagree with both of you. Problem is, if you need a complete back story on each Tf for them to have development, then nearly no TF in any universe from G1 to the movies have had what you define as development. In the case of Ironhide, your correct. He is the "Shoot first, ask questions later" kind of warrior. You don't need to be told that. His actions define it.
I will agree that more dialog would have been better. That point I'm not arguing. But for all intents and purposes, Ironhide has been a warrior, and this is what he was portrayed as. We don't need a huge back story as to why he became one to get that point across is all I'm saying.

Oh and shamone,
I should note that my comment that you quoted above was not entirely directed at Ironhide's character. As i said, i believe there are more than a few characters in the movies that had development. Some more than others, and admittedly, some not at all.

5150 Cruiser wrote:shamone and shadowynne ,

I'm going to have to disagree with both of you. Problem is, if you need a complete back story on each Tf for them to have development, then nearly no TF in any universe from G1 to the movies have had what you define as development. In the case of Ironhide, your correct. He is the "Shoot first, ask questions later" kind of warrior. You don't need to be told that. His actions define it.
I will agree that more dialog would have been better. That point I'm not arguing. But for all intents and purposes, Ironhide has been a warrior, and this is what he was portrayed as. We don't need a huge back story as to why he became one to get that point across is all I'm saying.

Oh and shamone,
I should note that my comment that you quoted above was not entirely directed at Ironhide's character. As i said, i believe there are more than a few characters in the movies that had development. Some more than others, and admittedly, some not at all.

i was not saying that development was needed. but i find it hard to believe that you can argue that there was development.

what development was there, considering each character had three to four lines, which were either exposition or inane jokes.

the robots were given one line characters, and dialogue to reflect this. essentially it was like armaggeddon, each character in that was the same, one not and no development.

thats fine if thats what you want. i would rather fewer bot and cons with more screen time and dialogue for those that were in it