The Energon Pub

Shadowman wrote:

Galaxion wrote:I am going have to disagree the Gundams while powerful are piloted by humans which would inhibit their fighting abilities while the gestalts are not only immensily powerful but operate on their own and have no need for human pilots. You have Gestalts like Menasor, Predaking, Monstructor and a few others that would tear into the gundams long before human reactions could effectively counter their attacks not to mention the gestalts are all immensly durable and much tougher to destroy than the gundams overall the Decepticon combiners win.

You're kidding, right? There twice as many Gundams, each with ten times as much firepower. Also, reaction time for most pilots is beyond instantaneous; Amuro Ray was capable of seeing what was about to happen around a minute into the future, and he wasn't even the strongest.

I'd add that combiners while being slow to move are also slow to think compared to humans or other TFs. Their durability maybe high compared to most TFs but I doubt they could take that many hits from a Gundam. While production mobile suit can be taken down quite easily, Gundams are usually very durable prototypes made out of Gundanium or Titanium. But that doesn't matter because, like Inferno Prime said, Gundams are so much faster that combiners could never hit them.

Aside from the overpowered bootleg White ranger powered Gundams from G Gundam.

Here are three that could single handedly take on and destroy the Decepticon Combiners.

Full Armor Double Zeta Gundam


The Tall-Geese III(anyone who says otherwise is the devil)


and finally the Sazabi(While the suit was used against the Earth in Char's Counterattack, Char himself has been known to help out in times of great need, and he is an on-again off-again good guy.)


Edit: and yes, I love using those spiffy gundam images

Yeah, Mark Simmons' old artwork from the Gundam Project was the best. Man, I miss that site.

Back on topic,

I am going have to disagree the Gundams while powerful are piloted by humans which would inhibit their fighting abilities while the gestalts are not only immensily powerful but operate on their own and have no need for human pilots. You have Gestalts like Menasor, Predaking, Monstructor and a few others that would tear into the gundams long before human reactions could effectively counter their attacks not to mention the gestalts are all immensly durable and much tougher to destroy than the gundams overall the Decepticon combiners win.

This comes up in just about every Transformers vs. Human Mecha debate out there. And I'm sick of it. Why? Because, frankly, it's utter crap. I have never once seen an instance of Transformers demonstrating faster-than-human reflexes. Not once. Saying 'they must react faster cuz they're computers' is utter BS when on screen, they frankly don't.

In a debate that involves UC Gundam pilots, or to a more limited extent ZERO systems, we're talking about characters that react using precognition; e.g. they have begun reacting to an attack unconciously before it has even been executed. It DOES NOT MATTER how short a time it takes between a stimulus occuring and a Transformer reacting to it when a Newtype can begin reacting BEFORE the stimulus occurs.

Finally, this is a moot point: All combiners are consistantly portrayed as physically slow and clumsy, as well as having a lag in their decision making created by having 4-6 seperate wills trying to create a plan of action. They are SCREWED.

Senor Hugo wrote:Aside from the overpowered bootleg White ranger powered Gundams from G Gundam.

Here are three that could single handedly take on and destroy the Decepticon Combiners.

Full Armor Double Zeta Gundam


The Tall-Geese III(anyone who says otherwise is the devil)


and finally the Sazabi(While the suit was used against the Earth in Char's Counterattack, Char himself has been known to help out in times of great need, and he is an on-again off-again good guy.)


Edit: and yes, I love using those spiffy gundam images

Good point, but one problem: Sazabi and Tallgeese aren't Gundams. While they could very, very easily do all of this, they have not been classified as Gundams. Though, to be fair, Tallgeese is considered a prototype to the Gundams in Wing, but that still doesn't make it a Gundam.

Though, yes, those pics are always sweet.

Just swap them for Wing Zero Custom and the Hi-Nu Gundam. Problem solved.

Actually, the Sazabi was developed as, essentially the twin to Amuro's RX-93, while looking nothing alike, they share the same technology, as it was Char who gave Anaheim the psycoframe tech so Amuro would be on equal footing with Char.

So while it doesn't have the standard Samurai-Facemask of Gundams(which we haven't seen with the Turn-A Gundam either), and while it hasn't been actually called a Gundam, the Sazabi is more than qualified to be called a Gundam.

Plus along with the RX-93, it's also made of gundarium alloy.

As for the Tall-geese, it was the precursor to the Gundams in Wing, but it was also a superior machine(until Zero, Altron, D-Hell, Epyon came along.) Though, like you said technically not a Gundam.

Senor Hugo wrote:Actually, the Sazabi was developed as, essentially the twin to Amuro's RX-93, while looking nothing alike, they share the same technology, as it was Char who gave Anaheim the psycoframe tech so Amuro would be on equal footing with Char.

So while it doesn't have the standard Samurai-Facemask of Gundams(which we haven't seen with the Turn-A Gundam either), and while it hasn't been actually called a Gundam, the Sazabi is more than qualified to be called a Gundam.

Plus along with the RX-93, it's also made of gundarium alloy.

Sunrise hasn't classified it as a Gundam, therefore, it isn't a Gundam. Even so, simply being made of the same material, an being able to fight on the same level doesn't make something a Gundam, like the Hyaku Shiki.

Shadowman wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:Actually, the Sazabi was developed as, essentially the twin to Amuro's RX-93, while looking nothing alike, they share the same technology, as it was Char who gave Anaheim the psycoframe tech so Amuro would be on equal footing with Char.

So while it doesn't have the standard Samurai-Facemask of Gundams(which we haven't seen with the Turn-A Gundam either), and while it hasn't been actually called a Gundam, the Sazabi is more than qualified to be called a Gundam.

Plus along with the RX-93, it's also made of gundarium alloy.

Sunrise hasn't classified it as a Gundam, therefore, it isn't a Gundam. Even so, simply being made of the same material, an being able to fight on the same level doesn't make something a Gundam, like the Hyaku Shiki.

Curse you, curse you and your ever relentless logic!

Senor Hugo wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:Actually, the Sazabi was developed as, essentially the twin to Amuro's RX-93, while looking nothing alike, they share the same technology, as it was Char who gave Anaheim the psycoframe tech so Amuro would be on equal footing with Char.

So while it doesn't have the standard Samurai-Facemask of Gundams(which we haven't seen with the Turn-A Gundam either), and while it hasn't been actually called a Gundam, the Sazabi is more than qualified to be called a Gundam.

Plus along with the RX-93, it's also made of gundarium alloy.

Sunrise hasn't classified it as a Gundam, therefore, it isn't a Gundam. Even so, simply being made of the same material, an being able to fight on the same level doesn't make something a Gundam, like the Hyaku Shiki.

Curse you, curse you and your ever relentless logic!

Chewbacca is a wookie, from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now that does not make sense!

Shadowman wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:Actually, the Sazabi was developed as, essentially the twin to Amuro's RX-93, while looking nothing alike, they share the same technology, as it was Char who gave Anaheim the psycoframe tech so Amuro would be on equal footing with Char.

So while it doesn't have the standard Samurai-Facemask of Gundams(which we haven't seen with the Turn-A Gundam either), and while it hasn't been actually called a Gundam, the Sazabi is more than qualified to be called a Gundam.

Plus along with the RX-93, it's also made of gundarium alloy.

Sunrise hasn't classified it as a Gundam, therefore, it isn't a Gundam. Even so, simply being made of the same material, an being able to fight on the same level doesn't make something a Gundam, like the Hyaku Shiki.

Even moreso, the Hyaku Shiki (in universe) would still have a better claim on it anyway, due to the fact that it was originally developed as the Delta Gundam before Anaheim Electronics switched its focus or whater, much like how the Rick Dias was originally to be named the Gamma Gundam before the designers decided it looked too much like a Dom .

Basically, if it doesn't have the word Gundam somewhere in its name, officially, then it isn't a Gundam. Even if it sort of looks like one. In UC, that pretty much rules out just about everything developed by Zeon, since Gundams are a symbol of Federation Might for the most part (which must have been very confusing for people in Zeta Gundam). G Gundam and 00 are probably the most consistant, whereas Wing - considering its rules - is the most arbitrary.

AfterImage wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:Actually, the Sazabi was developed as, essentially the twin to Amuro's RX-93, while looking nothing alike, they share the same technology, as it was Char who gave Anaheim the psycoframe tech so Amuro would be on equal footing with Char.

So while it doesn't have the standard Samurai-Facemask of Gundams(which we haven't seen with the Turn-A Gundam either), and while it hasn't been actually called a Gundam, the Sazabi is more than qualified to be called a Gundam.

Plus along with the RX-93, it's also made of gundarium alloy.

Sunrise hasn't classified it as a Gundam, therefore, it isn't a Gundam. Even so, simply being made of the same material, an being able to fight on the same level doesn't make something a Gundam, like the Hyaku Shiki.

Even moreso, the Hyaku Shiki (in universe) would still have a better claim on it anyway, due to the fact that it was originally developed as the Delta Gundam before Anaheim Electronics switched its focus or whater, much like how the Rick Dias was originally to be named the Gamma Gundam before the designers decided it looked too much like a Dom .

Basically, if it doesn't have the word Gundam somewhere in its name, officially, then it isn't a Gundam. Even if it sort of looks like one. In UC, that pretty much rules out just about everything developed by Zeon, since Gundams are a symbol of Federation Might for the most part (which must have been very confusing for people in Zeta Gundam). G Gundam and 00 are probably the most consistant, whereas Wing - considering its rules - is the most arbitrary.

I had heard somewhere (I can't find it anymore) that the Zeong was originally planned to be a Gundam (Zeon Gundam), but for whatever reason, it was never written into the original series.

Though I've never heard that one meself, I can honestly say the idea doesn't surprise me at all. Might ask Mark Simmons over at Gundam Evolution if there's anything to it. With the production history of the series, and the number truly out there supplements for it, it's easily possible.

AfterImage wrote:Just swap them for Wing Zero Custom and the Hi-Nu Gundam. Problem solved.

Please do. That would be sweet.

I wonder if there's a pic of a gestalt fighting a Gundam. I know I've seen one of Starscream vs. a Valkery... (Veritech)

Maybe I should draw that...

...And that reminds me that I have to ink, colour, and composite that EVA-01 vs. Cthulu pic, now that I think about it...

Gundams win plain and simple they may be smaller but they're faster and far more agile than any combiner

Actually, there's another thing right there: How big ARE the combiners, anyway? I know some like Predaking are farking huge, but the average transformer is only about a fifth the size of the average Mobile Suit.

AfterImage wrote:Actually, there's another thing right there: How big ARE the combiners, anyway? I know some like Predaking are farking huge, but the average transformer is only about a fifth the size of the average Mobile Suit.

I'd say half. Mobile Suits tend to average around 50 feet, while TFs tend to be around 25.

Thanatos Prime wrote:

Shadowman wrote:So we have:

Predaking
Bruticus
Devestator
Abominus
Menasor

vs.

*Deep breath*

RX-78-2 Gundam
Gundam MKII
Zeta Gundam
ZZ Gundam
Nu Gundam
Gundam F91
Victory Gundam
Shining Gundam
God/Burning Gundam
Wing Gundam
Wing Gundam Zero
Gundam X
Turn-A Gundam
Strike Gundam
Freedom Gundam
Impulse Gundam
Destiny Gundam
Strike Freedom Gundam
Gundam Exia

Now, these are only the "Hero" Gundams, that being Gundams that have been piloted by the main character of the series (Or in Strike Freedom's case, the Main character of the previous series), and have been given the designation Gundam. This list doesn't include other "Good Guy" Gundams, such as Deathsythe, Dynames, or Justice Gundams.

So where does any of this seem fair?

EDIT: Menasor! I KNEW I forgot one!

You also forgot to mention how all of those gundams have the ability to hold their own by themselves against all the combiners. This is a slaughter, plain and simple...

Let's see:
Turn-A Gundam has the Moonlight Butterfly that turns technology into dust from Earth to Jupiter at full power.
Wing Zero and ZZ Gundam can blow a hole through a space colony with ease.
Nu, Zeta, F91, and Unicorn all have Newtype hax.
God/Shining Gundam has Domon Freakin' Kasshu, who go toe-to-toe against Master Asia, who ripped mobile suits with his BARE HANDS.
And 00 Qan [T], whose beam saber can extend so long it can SCAR THE SURFACE OF AN ENTIRE PLANET while fighting the ELS, which ASSIMILATED JUPITER.

Yup, I feel really sorry for those poor, poor combiners.

Transformer tech is superior. The Decepticons would hack all the Gundams and then use them as cannon fodder against the Autobots.