The Energon Pub

I usually check out the rules before joining a forum as suggested; but I found a "rule supplement" that upset me quite a lot.

1) Flaming
2) Baiting
3) Trolling
4) Lack of respect
AND THE BIG ONE…
5) Forcing their opinions on others

This sounds grand and noble! Until you read the example.

User 1: I liked the transformers movie and what Bay did to them
User2: I don’t care what you like, bay sucks and so do you for liking him

This made me extremely angry, because this is exactly why I stopped posting on TF boards. I used to go to the official movie forums, I mostly lurked. On there, a lot of links to threads on other forums were posted there. They were honestly quite horrendous.

It was the exact opposite of this. People who were complaining about the movie were called "Geewunners", insulted, belittled, and the people doing so ulimately protected by the mods on this forum. I don't remember much about this site in particular - but I do remember someone posting on the movie forums, after a mod claimed Seibertron made sure to stop people forcing their views on others, a thread were movie supporters were doing exactly that. Even after pointing it out on the forum, nothing was done.

I was weary because of this, but was willing to write it off as just one bad mod, or bad incident.

I know it's "Just an example" but it's reinforcing a misconception and I get the feeling this ruling will do more to discriminate against my opinion than protect it.

The fact is that people were very nearly forced into liking the movie. If you didn't like it, or thought, god forbid, it should have been based more on the original and most popular and most developed iteration of transformers, you were a "Geewunner", even if that person, in some cases, preferred Beast Wars as a series.

The idea of acting like it was the other way around, the "Haters" enforcing anything, is irritating. In the example there, the "Hater" is speaking out of sheer frustration and I know what it feels like. They're not trying to be malicious - they feel cornered with all the unwavering positivity at absolutely any new piece of news and shoving of everything new down someone's throat. They're not a in a position to "force" their opinion, no offense to the admin that posted that but I'm not entirely sure he understands when it's correct to use that phrase in some cases. Someone would not necessarily take the same action when they know they can affect someone else and are not the underdog.

People should take into account how people react when they're upset. People need to be allowed to vent! What happened was that many of the pro-movie crowd on the Movie forums and others essentially trolled the "Haters" off the boards. Because it's easier for mods to ban people who are notably upset instead of those causing the problems. Also, sometimes people deserve to be insulted more than others. "Hater" or "Geewunner" is a nasty insult, accusing someone of being closed minded, Geewunners are often compared to homophobes. Yet if someone were to say anything back to those people, who actually deserve it, they get warned/or banned. I lost some of the few friends I made on the Movie boards to this. Swearing is not a good way to insult someone, telling someone too **** off is completely impersonal.

If there is no "Internet Gestapo" here, then this thread shouldn't be a problem, if it can be discussed maturely. The problem is people will just deny anything ever happened, and claim they don't see a problem if I dig up old threads. It's frustrating.

I do not want to contribute to this forum if the attitude is that "Complaining = Bad". If people don't complain nobody sees there's a problem and changes it. If people recognise the real problem is not complaining, but those who disallow others to complain, then it's fine.

Sorry for the rant, I guess a lot of it was copypasta of stuff I've been hearing from friends and reading on smaller boards lately. But I'm really disgusted with how people were treated during the movie fiasco, and never became fully involved because of it. As a new member I only want to get on with people, if people want to like whatever series I don't care as long as they don't force it on me like most did with the movie, but I don't want to be somewhere that demonises people for what in some cases amounts to little more than critical thinking.

Sorry for that, hope I haven't offended anyone.

The MODS here are dam good.

We all have our oppinions. We all get to voice them. Sometimes they confict, it happens. Keeping it civil though isn't to much to ask though.

If you don't like the sites policies though, talk to a MOD, they are very attentive in responding. I'm sure you can get them to overturn their policies on berating other members

Take me, I'm not a fan of Animated, and voice myself as such. However I talk to and don't knock the people that are fans. It's how it should be. I can, but don't see the point in insulting anyone for not agreeing with me.

I myself tip my hat to what they do in keeping the site orderly, informative, and peaceful.

Since you're relatively new I can understand your point, but the Mod's here to an excellent job of maintaining the piece and any form of verbal attack is issued a warning promptly in my experience.

Also, if you see this happening, let a mod know via PM. They're really easy going and more that willing to help.

And by the way....

Welcome to SEIBERTRON.


WARNING!!!!! SEIBERTRON CONTAINS NUTS!!!!

I think this problem is more due to the members than the mods though. Also, in my experience, once an issue with mods goes to PM - that means they can just ignore you, and give preprocessed answers. When something's out in the public, the pressure's on. At the same time I'm not breaking any rules doing this. I'm just offering my opinion on the state of the community.

I know on some of the other forums; the mods are absolutely awful. The problem is with people who spout out "My board my rules" without caring for how upsetting it can be to first off not get your opinion out, and then being blocked from doing so with a particular group of people.

I don't really know any of the mods here, but I am angry at the one on the Movie forums for flinging their arms up and saying "What do you want me to do" when faced with an instance of opinion forcing. I hope the other mods are not like that, but either way, if the members are like that, allowing it to happen or causing it themselves, it's a big problem.

I probably come off as a bit obnoxious with this but it's something very important to me...

Since you're relatively new I can understand your point, but the Mod's here to an excellent job of maintaining the piece and any form of verbal attack

The problem is there's ways of making someone feel cornered without verbal attack, and sometimes verbal attack constitutes a valid blow at someone for doing something cruel or unfair. Nothing is black and white...

I've been warned a hand full of times and here it never realy translated to anything more than "Hey calm down". I never once felt cornered, and when needed, they've talked me straight though the problem.

Seibertron's MODs can get a shooter off a roof!

If a member is bothering you, talk to them, the situation will go away.

I guess I'll stick around then.

Or at least I would if the layout wasn't driving me nuts :/ For some reason the actual forum area is squeezed small in Firefox, is there a way around it?

So let me tell you a little story.

Before the movie came out, I would have considered myself "pro-movie". There were things I didn't like about the movie that I was seeing, but I was willing to give it a chance.

And I was nearly run off this site because of those who had written it off before the thing was even completed, let alone seen.

So you see, it works both ways.

These days however it just seems like the "haters" are sprouting the same thing again and again with no basis towards their posts aside from "I really hate Michael Bay". Gets boring very quickly and pisses people off.

Rambling aside, I personally feel the rules need to be overhauled as they're far too broad, or maybe I just need things clarified I don't know.

But anyway, welcome to Seibertron.com where opinions vary and we all try to resist the urge to kick each other in the nuts.
(Or heads if they're female ... here Pyro Pyro Pyro )

Burn wrote:But anyway, welcome to Seibertron.com where opinions vary and we all try to resist the urge to kick each other in the nuts.
(Or heads if they're female ... here Pyro Pyro Pyro )

LOL! Smartiepants!

Love ya, Burn dear!



I understand the consternation with other places and their obnoxiousness in threads. It doesn't happen here much...the mods are all over it all the time, and flaming doesn't usually last very long! Was one of the reasons I quit lurking around here and actually joined!

Gattai Da wrote:I usually check out the rules before joining a forum as suggested; but I found a "rule supplement" that upset me quite a lot.

1) Flaming
2) Baiting
3) Trolling
4) Lack of respect
AND THE BIG ONE…
5) Forcing their opinions on others

This sounds grand and noble! Until you read the example.

User 1: I liked the transformers movie and what Bay did to them
User2: I don’t care what you like, bay sucks and so do you for liking him

I'm a mod and I have no problem with your post. But I think you're looking too far in to the example. The example is supposed to emphasize the "and so do you" part. We have no problems with debating, just don't attack another user personally. You can like the movie and argue up and down with someone, but as soon as you insult someone, then that's when a warning get issued.

To add to all of this:

1. Not all opinions are created equal. Some are distinctly more robust and well founded than others.
2. Opinions are not sacred cows to remain untouched.
3. Posting your opinion is essentially the same as entering a debate. If you want to avoid a discussion on your opinion, post it in a non-offensive way and offer a little support to your side. At the very least, state 'this is just how I feel on the matter' then at least people aren't going to tear into you.

Counterpunch wrote:To add to all of this:

1. Not all opinions are created equal. Some are distinctly more robust and well founded than others.
2. Opinions are not sacred cows to remain untouched.
3. Posting your opinion is essentially the same as entering a debate. If you want to avoid a discussion on your opinion, post it in a non-offensive way and offer a little support to your side. At the very least, state 'this is just how I feel on the matter' then at least people aren't going to tear into you.

You forgot rule number 4, disagreeing with COunterpunch results in a permadoucheing.

Interesting fact about Counterpunch, when he does a push up, he is actually pushing the earth down.

GetterDragun wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:To add to all of this:

1. Not all opinions are created equal. Some are distinctly more robust and well founded than others.
2. Opinions are not sacred cows to remain untouched.
3. Posting your opinion is essentially the same as entering a debate. If you want to avoid a discussion on your opinion, post it in a non-offensive way and offer a little support to your side. At the very least, state 'this is just how I feel on the matter' then at least people aren't going to tear into you.

You forgot rule number 4, disagreeing with COunterpunch results in a permadoucheing.

Interesting fact about Counterpunch, when he does a push up, he is actually pushing the earth down.

You're looking to get a box of chocolates out of me today aren't you?

GetterDragun wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:To add to all of this:

1. Not all opinions are created equal. Some are distinctly more robust and well founded than others.
2. Opinions are not sacred cows to remain untouched.
3. Posting your opinion is essentially the same as entering a debate. If you want to avoid a discussion on your opinion, post it in a non-offensive way and offer a little support to your side. At the very least, state 'this is just how I feel on the matter' then at least people aren't going to tear into you.

You forgot rule number 4, disagreeing with COunterpunch results in a permadoucheing.

Interesting fact about Counterpunch, when he does a push up, he is actually pushing the earth down.

Very true. CP is one of a handful of people that can say something contrary to what I say, and make me sit back and re-evaluate my side of the arguement.

I hate when he does pushups though. Always knocks over my TF's.

I want everyone here to understand...

I'm always right.

Unless I'm wrong.

Then you can cay you never saw me...

...ever...

Unless, I'm right.



Anyway, the mods here are pretty good. However, it only takes one bad apple to destroy the Philosopher's forum...or maybe 12...who knows.

Stick round, you'll enjoy it.

For the record, I finally saw the movie and it was cute, but I still didn't like it and wish the world solely revolved around G1, with the exception of everything else...

GetterDragun wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:To add to all of this:

1. Not all opinions are created equal. Some are distinctly more robust and well founded than others.
2. Opinions are not sacred cows to remain untouched.
3. Posting your opinion is essentially the same as entering a debate. If you want to avoid a discussion on your opinion, post it in a non-offensive way and offer a little support to your side. At the very least, state 'this is just how I feel on the matter' then at least people aren't going to tear into you.

You forgot rule number 4, disagreeing with COunterpunch results in a permadoucheing.

Interesting fact about Counterpunch, when he does a push up, he is actually pushing the earth down.

Counterpunch is God, Buddah, Zeus, Odin, and the Lord of the Dance all in one.

Shadowman wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:To add to all of this:

1. Not all opinions are created equal. Some are distinctly more robust and well founded than others.
2. Opinions are not sacred cows to remain untouched.
3. Posting your opinion is essentially the same as entering a debate. If you want to avoid a discussion on your opinion, post it in a non-offensive way and offer a little support to your side. At the very least, state 'this is just how I feel on the matter' then at least people aren't going to tear into you.

You forgot rule number 4, disagreeing with COunterpunch results in a permadoucheing.

Interesting fact about Counterpunch, when he does a push up, he is actually pushing the earth down.

Counterpunch is God, Buddah, Zeus, Odin, and the Lord of the Dance all in one.

I'm not ready for that kind of responsibility...

I'm not even good at being Punch anymore.

Has anyone else around here been keeping up with Gattai Da's posts and getting the distinct feeling of déjà vu, or worse? A person overly concerned with the discussion of opinions and arguments, a distinct motivation to remain in the right at all times, a very abrasive attitude towards displays of comedic value or dissenting opinion...?

Just saying, there's a resemblance. There's also a much newer guy that comes to mind, but anyone not on TFW2005 wouldn't know the one I mean.

Chosen wrote:Has anyone else around here been keeping up with Gattai Da's posts and getting the distinct feeling of déjà vu, or worse? A person overly concerned with the discussion of opinions and arguments, a distinct motivation to remain in the right at all times, a very abrasive attitude towards displays of comedic value or dissenting opinion...?

Just saying, there's a resemblance. There's also a much newer guy that comes to mind, but anyone not on TFW2005 wouldn't know the one I mean.

Thats actually been brought up already in another forum. Some people just love bringing misery to the masses.

Chosen wrote:Has anyone else around here been keeping up with Gattai Da's posts and getting the distinct feeling of déjà vu, or worse? A person overly concerned with the discussion of opinions and arguments, a distinct motivation to remain in the right at all times, a very abrasive attitude towards displays of comedic value or dissenting opinion...?

Just saying, there's a resemblance. There's also a much newer guy that comes to mind, but anyone not on TFW2005 wouldn't know the one I mean.

There was some crack-pipe smoking chump on the SOTA boards who casued similar problems. I think they even made their way to Fwoosh.

If I have to battle trolls this often, everywhere I go, the internet pretty much becomes a text version of WoW.

I'm going to be a Level 20 Shogun in no time.

Chosen wrote:Has anyone else around here been keeping up with Gattai Da's posts and getting the distinct feeling of déjà vu, or worse? A person overly concerned with the discussion of opinions and arguments, a distinct motivation to remain in the right at all times, a very abrasive attitude towards displays of comedic value or dissenting opinion...?

Just saying, there's a resemblance. There's also a much newer guy that comes to mind, but anyone not on TFW2005 wouldn't know the one I mean.

Are we going to end up with another recurring troll? Or are all these people just reincarnations of Alvin Prime, having risen again just to be a prick?

I've been a G1 fan from the day it started and I still am but I separate them for what they are...G1 is a great cartoon series but I have no problems with there being room for other ideas whether they are design changes or storyline changes as they are their own separate universes in a sense.

It does not mean I'm going to like each and every design or scene but I'm not going to dislike one fairly minor aspect and say the whole design or the whole scene or movie is crap.

I've really noticed an odd sense of entitlement a lot of people seem to have over this franchise like it's theirs to control and G1 is the holy bible this movie was supposed to be based on and there can be nothing else but if that's the case then we need an entire movie franchise based on beast wars,armada,cybertron, animated and lets throw all of the japanese series into the mix to really get things mixed up but guess what...This is not 1984 anymore.

Personally I liked the 2007 movie, it was not perfect and hopefully they will learn from some of the mistakes of the first one and make the sequels better...but what movie is perfect ?

I'm sure if you put enough heads together in a room or the internet flaws could be found and every other little thing nit picked to death so if you don't like the movie fine that's your choice but why continue to complain about what's already been done on internet forums unless you are trying to sway the opinions of others here and elsewhere against it ? what else will it accomplish ?

Apparently they were not listening to you on the "official forums" so why make posts here on an unofficial forum as it will not sway the direction they wish to view the franchise.

Your title is "forcing opinions on others" and who is forcing you to change your opinion ? ultimately that's your choice and nobody else as nobody is holding a gun to your head correct ?

It also goes both ways...when people make posts like this as it seems now you are trying to force your views on those that do like the movie and on yet another internet forum by your own admission from here all the way to the official forums of the movie.

When threads are started here on a daily basis nit picking every "illogical" decision that a bunch of made up characters say or do is analyzed to the Nth degree it is really time to step back a bit and think hey can't we just enjoy this film for the entertainment factor alone or instead go the route of splitting hairs at every second of the film ? that is another choice made by each person of course.

***Galvatron*** wrote:I've been a G1 fan from the day it started and I still am but I separate them for what they are...G1 is a great cartoon series but I have no problems with there being room for other ideas whether they are design changes or storyline changes as they are their own separate universes in a sense.

It does not mean I'm going to like each and every design or scene but I'm not going to dislike one fairly minor aspect and say the whole design or the whole scene or movie is crap.

I've really noticed an odd sense of entitlement a lot of people seem to have over this franchise like it's theirs to control and G1 is the holy bible this movie was supposed to be based on and there can be nothing else but if that's the case then we need an entire movie franchise based on beast wars,armada,cybertron, animated and lets throw all of the japanese series into the mix to really get things mixed up but guess what...This is not 1984 anymore.

Personally I liked the 2007 movie, it was not perfect and hopefully they will learn from some of the mistakes of the first one and make the sequels better...but what movie is perfect ?

I'm sure if you put enough heads together in a room or the internet flaws could be found and every other little thing nit picked to death so if you don't like the movie fine that's your choice but why continue to complain about what's already been done on internet forums unless you are trying to sway the opinions of others here and elsewhere against it ? what else will it accomplish ?

Apparently they were not listening to you on the "official forums" so why make posts here on an unofficial forum as it will not sway the direction they wish to view the franchise.

Your title is "forcing opinions on others" and who is forcing you to change your opinion ? ultimately that's your choice and nobody else as nobody is holding a gun to your head correct ?

It also goes both ways...when people make posts like this as it seems now you are trying to force your views on those that do like the movie and on yet another internet forum by your own admission from here all the way to the official forums of the movie.

When threads are started here on a daily basis nit picking every "illogical" decision that a bunch of made up characters say or do is analyzed to the Nth degree it is really time to step back a bit and think hey can't we just enjoy this film for the entertainment factor alone or instead go the route of splitting hairs at every second of the film ? that is another choice made by each person of course.

Amen brutha!! Very well said!

I don't understand what the point of this thread is? Is it lamenting the fact that some people will insult others in an argument?

Blast Cannon wrote:I don't understand what the point of this thread is? Is it lamenting the fact that some people will insult others in an argument?

Judging from the first posters reaction, I think he's lamenting that he can't force opinions on others. Which goes against the Seibertron Rule Book, common sense, and human decency all at once.

EDIT: Whoa, reading the first post a little more, Gatta Dai is reading way too much into the example, going so far as to create back-stories for non-existent people.

But really I think this is only going to end as another "KR" scene. Like Chosen said, he's using a lot of the same "logic."