The Energon Pub

Feel it's only appropriate that I repost this:

Mr. Lamb conceded that the brand had gotten a little off track over the years. “As new designers and engineers continued to work on this brand, it got more complicated," he said. Hasbro will continue to make complex Transformers for adult fans who have collected the toys since their inception 30 years ago. But the new design is intended to re-engage parents and children, who found the transformations too challenging.

Deathscythetransform wrote:why? because I enjoy complex transformations, of because I find it ludicrous that someone took half an hour to transform a simplistic toy such as sideburn?? seriously, the RID line was so simlistic it was stupid.

the only transformer I had few difficulties was MP 05 Masterpiece Magatron... because he is such a poopy figure he was constantly falling apart while I was converting him!

Well excuse the rest of humanity for not be gifted child geniuses, your majesty. We simpletons are truly humbled to be standing in the grace of your wondrous superior presence. We are not worthy of such a rare and exclusive honor.

So far , we have seen three Optimus Prime AOE and all of them are shellforms! I know it is because the new design, either I liked it , it is not going to work for the toy line, its too complicated for the engineers figure out how to make a nice toy.

Is that the new "titan" class?

Dragging this a bit off topic, but I agree with Deathscythetransform on how I don't think the RID toys are that difficult to transform. I admit Sideburn's parts end up in odd places and the clearance for them is a bit weird, but it's hardly rocket science. Give me a Sideburn that hasn't fallen apart from the ravages of time and hard playing and I could get it done in about a minute or so.

"The move to reduce the complexity of the toys extends to the branding, too. The property often has multiple toy lines on sale, reflecting various TV, movie and classic versions of the characters, leading to confusion in the toy aisle. Now, all Transformers toys will come under a single, bold logo."

Quote from the article here. It does seem like they are getting rid of the generations line and others like a few people mentioned here.

Shadowstream wrote:Dragging this a bit off topic, but I agree with Deathscythetransform on how I don't think the RID toys are that difficult to transform. I admit Sideburn's parts end up in odd places and the clearance for them is a bit weird, but it's hardly rocket science. Give me a Sideburn that hasn't fallen apart from the ravages of time and hard playing and I could get it done in about a minute or so.

A big factor in this is that you're not an amateur (or at least I presume you aren't). You've likely had experience with lots of TFs and would have gotten used to the more challenging levels of difficulty to not find them as challenging as one with less experience would.

While transforming Transformers is fun, taking more than 5 minutes to do so is not fun.

The key thing that Hasbro is trying to go for with the new simplicity is to give kids toys that they can transform faster. Remember when playing with the toys as a child and trying to have a battle scene with lots of TFs? You and your friends would always have to pause the game to transform each toy each time that the battle or play pattern called for any of the toys to be transformed. You and you're friends were obligated to wait for the transformations to be done before they could resume shooting at each other. And that isn't fun.

With these new toys, however, you can transform them fast enough to match the "TSCHE-CHU-CHU-CHU-TSCHE!" noise that we liked to make as kids, instead of having to go "TSCHE....................CHU.................CHU.......................just a sec...................CHU......................almost got it........................darn it, come on...........................TSCHE!"

I'm fine with the toys being simpler as long as A) both modes look at least half-decent, and B) the robot modes have at least half-decent articulation.

The gimmick is "Transforming at the speed of play!"

Hero Alpha wrote:"The move to reduce the complexity of the toys extends to the branding, too. The property often has multiple toy lines on sale, reflecting various TV, movie and classic versions of the characters, leading to confusion in the toy aisle. Now, all Transformers toys will come under a single, bold logo."

Quote from the article here. It does seem like they are getting rid of the generations line and others like a few people mentioned here.

More like they're just grouping everything under one generic label of packaging, with each line's individual logo included somewhere on the box to let us know which line they belong to.

Notice how this new Optimus has a teeny-tiny "Transformers: Age of Extinction" logo on the bottom of his box while the bigger "TRANSFORMERS" logo is more prominent. I'd imagine any future Generations toys will have the "Transformers: Generations" logo somewhere on the box.

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowstream wrote:Dragging this a bit off topic, but I agree with Deathscythetransform on how I don't think the RID toys are that difficult to transform. I admit Sideburn's parts end up in odd places and the clearance for them is a bit weird, but it's hardly rocket science. Give me a Sideburn that hasn't fallen apart from the ravages of time and hard playing and I could get it done in about a minute or so.

A big factor in this is that you're not an amateur (or at least I presume you aren't). You've likely had experience with lots of TFs and would have gotten used to the more challenging levels of difficulty to not find them as challenging as one with less experience would.

While transforming Transformers is fun, taking more than 5 minutes to do so is not fun.

The key thing that Hasbro is trying to go for with the new simplicity is to give kids toys that they can transform faster.

I grant you that, I spent most of my life learning these toys as I never really stopped collecting outside of those instances wherein either the series failed to grasp me or budget went to something I garnered greater interest in at the time. Even so, I don't really see the idea of decreasing the complexity of larger TF toys to such a degree as this. Kids want simplicity, there are existing sub-lines for just that reason. THIS looks like it's just tearing down the standard to appeal to the kids who want bigger toys with zero effort attached.

Remember when playing with the toys as a child and trying to have a battle scene with lots of TFs? You and your friends would always have to pause the game to transform each toy each time that the battle or play pattern called for any of the toys to be transformed. You and you're friends were obligated to wait for the transformations to be done before they could resume shooting at each other. And that isn't fun.

With these new toys, however, you can transform them fast enough to match the "TSCHE-CHU-CHU-CHU-TSCHE!" noise that we liked to make as kids, instead of having to go "TSCHE....................CHU.................CHU.......................just a sec...................CHU......................almost got it........................darn it, come on...........................TSCHE!"

You speak as if all kids who grew up with TFs had this issue. Some of us didn't have friends who even liked Transformers, or moreso didn't have friends, period being a kid is tough when you get lumped in the special needs class for all the wrong reasons...

I'm fine with the toys being simpler as long as A) both modes look at least half-decent, and B) the robot modes have at least half-decent articulation.

The gimmick is "Transforming at the speed of play!"

add to that C) value for your dollar and I'll agree completely.

For an illustration, let's take a look at what is more likely to be a main line figure.

The one on the right, specifically, is what we'll be looking at:







In Vehicle Mode, he looks fairly good. Quite passable, even.

Now the Robot Mode, however, we'll need to look further into.

People say that this looks like a brick. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. Why? Well, for starters, that first image clearly shows that he has articulation found in his elbows, shoulders, knees, hips, and neck. Then the bottom pic shows two more points in his ankles. That's eleven points of articulation right there, and possibly two more in his wrists to make thirteen. That's a pretty decent, even standard, amount of articulation for the average TF toy.

The only real knock against this toy is its ugly back kibble, but that's less of a concern than the action figure aspects of the toy, IMHO, which seem to be pretty adequate as they are. And at least the kibble is neither in the way nor outlandishly positioned as it all looks to rest neatly flat upon his back side rather than sticking out obnoxiously and/or obstructively.

Bragging about how fast you can transform a toy on the internet?

Hammer wrote:Bragging about how fast you can transform a toy on the internet?

Transformation races are not unheard of.

I just want a good grimlock made, and a good story line in this movie....... I hope

This conversation reminds me of something...



... that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

Well, saves me money. Unfortunately I was looking to buy the dinobots from the new line and maybe some of the deluxes. But, that all changed with this announcement.

I get what they are doing and they are right. I remember when I bought my first "new" transformer back in 2009 for the ROTF line. It was a voyager Starscream and I was baffled that it took 20-30 minutes to transform with a youtube video to help. However, since then I can transform them a lot quicker and most times without even having instructions. So, maybe dumbing down the line isn't a good thing. There is nothing wrong with a challenge.

I would assume from this commenting that the Generations line will be the only one left with the "complex" transformations. Until it ends, that is. We know the new cartoon with have the simple transformations as well. At least you have to assume due to the nature of the show.

Sabrblade wrote:

Hammer wrote:Bragging about how fast you can transform a toy on the internet?

Transformation races are not unheard of.

They're great fun, if you're 5

I'm not a fan of these toys, but I can see why Hasbro is gambling on a new approach.

Hasbro took a beating when the TF: Dark Side of the Moon toys bombed. They didn't appeal to kids and adult collectors mostly stayed away.

Adult collectors have soured on the movie toys overall, so it makes sense for them to take a new tact and target young kids more. Remember, it's been 7 years since the first movie came out. Think about how many children have been born over that span and how many who have never been exposed to the Transformers brand. Hasbro needs to hook those kids in to be successful.

Kids burn out on toys after a few years and move on to new toys and interests. Hasbro needs to keep engaging the next group to maintain their business. The window to engage those kids is small and the competition is fierce. There weren't nearly as many toy lines, cartoons or video games in the mid 80s as there are now. Hasbro has no animated series on the air right now and they need the movie toys to be a hit because this will be their main line in 2014.

Sure, Hasbro is not doing any favors to adult collectors, but they can't afford to lose the kids by just servicing the needs of the adults. It's not a good long term strategy.

Burn wrote:

thedistinctroom wrote:Simplified Transformers are for simpletons.

So making kids toys easier for kids makes the kids stupid?

While simultaneously still creating more complex toys for older people?

hmmmm....

No. Of course not. A toy cannot make someone stupid. And I have little belief that TF's are going to be more complex for adult collectors, unless we are talking about Masterpiece or something. I take back my opinionated remark.

Opinions and perceptions. we've all got them. My apologies if I've offended anyone with my "Simple Transformers are for simpletons" remark.

RhA wrote:

Marcdachamp wrote: When I bought Sideburn from RiD I was 16. You know how long it took me to transform him the first time? About a half an hour. That's ludicrous, and kids aren't going to want to put up with that.

I'm not advocating "brickformers", but something clearly had to be done, and I'm glad Hasbro sees that.

I had a similar experience with ol' Sideburn. The first time I tried to transform him, I was REALLY hung over. I was so wasted, I nearly puked.

thedistinctroom wrote:Simplified Transformers are for simpletons. This is the most disturbing TF news I've read in a while.

Perhaps this is the age of extinction for the brand.

He writes, while having Trypticon for a sig.

What's so funny? I'm assuming Trypticon is a simple Transformer? Well, I wouldn't know. I've never owned one. I take back my "Simpleton" remark. (Especially after looking at myself in the proverbial mirror! After all, I've got a massive collection of simple GoBots. )

I think that Hasbro should employ the tactic of selling the brand via a cartoon. It worked for Gen 1 and I believe if kids had a cartoon to consistently rely upon for viewing Transformers, rather than a movie every few years, they would be more inclined to actually love the Transformers characters the way we did growing up. No movies, just cartoons, and kids would welcome the challenge of Transforming these toys, because they would like the characters.
In terms of the topic at hand I am discouraged to read about the simplified approach, but I'll make a final call when I see these at retail.

Cartoons will never make as much money as films, though. And that's what it's really about.

PFT whatever Sabrblade, my robots were still shooting while transforming CHEE CHOOK PEW CHOOK PEW CHEE PEW CHEEK.

Shadowstream wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Remember when playing with the toys as a child and trying to have a battle scene with lots of TFs? You and your friends would always have to pause the game to transform each toy each time that the battle or play pattern called for any of the toys to be transformed.

You speak as if all kids who grew up with TFs had this issue. Some of us didn't have friends who even liked Transformers, or moreso didn't have friends, period

Very true. I didn't have friends as a kid. I still don't. For me, playing by myself, transforming them was the best part. The more complex, the better.

And I agree with the "Simplified Transformers are for simpletons" remark. Our culture and society is getting ever more dumbed down. Perhaps challenging people, kids included, is the way to go, as opposed to the simplified instant gratification culture we have today.

I don't care if people are offended by this. It is how I see it. This is another step towards Transformers mediocrity. I'd rather see Transformers fade away than continue down that road.

CommanderHazar wrote:

Shadowstream wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Remember when playing with the toys as a child and trying to have a battle scene with lots of TFs? You and your friends would always have to pause the game to transform each toy each time that the battle or play pattern called for any of the toys to be transformed.

You speak as if all kids who grew up with TFs had this issue. Some of us didn't have friends who even liked Transformers, or moreso didn't have friends, period

Very true. I didn't have friends as a kid. I still don't. For me, playing by myself, transforming them was the best part. The more complex, the better.

And I agree with the "Simplified Transformers are for simpletons" remark. Our culture and society is getting ever more dumbed down. Perhaps challenging people, kids included, is the way to go, as opposed to the simplified instant gratification culture we have today.

I don't care if people are offended by this. It is how I see it. This is another step towards Transformers mediocrity. I'd rather see Transformers fade away than continue down that road.

I feel sorry for you.

Va'al wrote:Cartoons will never make as much money as films, though. And that's what it's really about.

Yeah, quick money. That's what many companies are about now. But cartoon may be the one to keep kids going (and also the toy line), only if they make the cartoon easily available for most kids to watch. Movies may bring up the hype fast but at the same time, they cool down fast too. We have many movie (non TF) toys laying around in the house that my kids don't play with. They always turn back to play their usual stuffs. That's the reason now I tend not to impulse buy movie toys for them so fast since I know they will put them aside very soon.

Back to topic. Again, I don't mind Hasbro's decision. It's also fine if they are going Mattel's route on making simple, such as Batman, toys wide available in retail stores but some bigger and better collector oriented toys in some exclusive stores or online only. My concern is still the same. If your toys are simpler, your on screen design should be somewhat simpler, too. There is nothing wrong with the look of G1's Optimus Prime robot mode. Because when you see him, you can easily tell he is from a truck.