The Energon Pub

WARNING: This post is not intended to start an argument. I am not posting to incite anyone's anger nor am I looking for another opinion. Honestly I just want to see if I am alone in my opinions or not.


So anyway, I have been a fan of transformers since 1984, and while I would not consider myself a Geewunner, I do think very fondly of that time. I collected Beast Wars and liked the Armada Toy lines for the most part. I love the stuff they are making now and look forward to the future.

I loved the g1 cartoon and movie, and thought Beast Wars was pretty cool. I didn't like Robots in Disguise but loved that the focus was returning to vehicles. I actually like the movies although I very much dislike Revenge of the Fallen for more reasons than I will list here. I loved Transformers Animated and Transformers Prime. I read some Marvel, most DreamWorks and all of the IDW up until a year ago.

All this said, I simply cannot stand the Japanese aesthetic when applied to transformers. I'm not a big fan of Manga or anime, though I have tried so this may be a big problem. But I would have thought I would have tolerated it when applied to transformers. I just can't I can't watch Armada. I tried to watch the Japanese headmasters series, I was excited to watch it and it was like biting an onion. I hate the re-dubs of Animated and Prime and while the Japanese opening to Animated is beautiful I HATE the anime conventions.

And the Japanese exclusive toys. Star Convoy is awful. The new Transformers Go! stuff is dreadful.

I know this is seemingly hate filled rant and I'm not saying this is a bad part of the fandom or anything, but I know I can't be alone on this. If there are, you can post here, and I'd ask anyone posting to keep civil and not insult fans who may like this part of Transformers. After all, it a part of the fandom.

(Also, I do like the irony that I complain about Japanese influence in a Japanese imported toy)

Different strokes and all that, you know?

I think you'd find debates on "Real Robots" vs. "Super Robots" pretty interesting. Sounds like you're into the stuff with realistic alt modes the most, except Beast Wars.

I find it interesting though that you loved Animated given the rest of your listed preferences. I always found it to be about three degrees away from very anime-esque design. What about Animated separated it from some of the other show styles for you?

I feel what you need is a good quality Japanese Transformers product since many of them aren't quite up to par.

The best one that has been officially localized into English would be Cybertron, even though it was a joint-venture between Hasbro and Takara instead of a purely Japanese-only product. Though, the English version did attempt to make sense out of some of the more nonsensical moments, providing explanations rooted in either science, sci-fi technobabble, or established TF lore.

But the best one that has remained Japanese-exclusive (aside from a horrendous Malaysian English dub) would be Super-God Masterforce, which is arguably the best Japanese-made Transformers series of them all for being so darn fun and unique.

However, should you choose to look into the latter, keep far away from the American DVDs from Shout! Factory, as the subtitles included in those are inaccurate with deliberate changes made to the subtitle script that deviate from the actual meanings of the spoken dialogue. Judging from your post, I'd say that either the UK DVDs from Metrodome or the Australian DVDs from Madman would be best suited to you. There's also the TV-Nihon fansubs, but those are more geared towards anime fans as they use some authentic non-English anime terms in the subtitles. So, yeah, either the UK or Australian DVDs would be your best option for Masterforce.

ScottyP wrote:Different strokes and all that, you know?

I think you'd find debates on "Real Robots" vs. "Super Robots" pretty interesting. Sounds like you're into the stuff with realistic alt modes the most, except Beast Wars.

I find it interesting though that you loved Animated given the rest of your listed preferences. I always found it to be about three degrees away from very anime-esque design. What about Animated separated it from some of the other show styles for you?

I think it has less to do with realism, as it does the taste. I've also tried watching the Anime variants of classic TF & their own continuation. Besides having some goofy fun, it is a bit too "sentai", too silly, and very kiddy.

I've watched quite a few true family films made in the US, & by true family, I mean filled with elements that people of all ages can enjoy. When I watch the Japanese dubs of many of these films, many times, they are dumbed down. This is fascinating, given how Anime fans, like myself, disliked the early gen. dumb-ing down of Anime & Manga, that was brought to America.

Still, Transformers in Japan, usually is, VERY, young boy targeted. Instead of teen boy or mature. Anime fans, like myself, will know the genre's I'm referring too.

In response to why I like Animated as well, I think it's the approach the writers and creators took in making Animated. They took it seriously. Yes, it is very cartoony in style but that only masks a very intelligent and well thought out story. In fact, it is perhaps a better defined story than Transformers Prime. The cartoon aspect allowed it to be accessible but it still had some very great writing.

Tronus Rex, does pick up on one thing: In japan, they really dumb stuff down. I sometimes wonder if this is a unspoken cultural view towards children as it seems evident in many programs that are actually aimed at kids. Here, writers and marketing are not assuming children are unable to grasp higher concepts. When I was a child, I yearned for intelligent and deeper programming. Going back and watching G1 impressed me. I remembered it being far less sophisticated than I recently and pleasantly discovered. Yes, it had some silly moments but less than I thought it would.

I just don't see that in Japanese versions of the property. I wonder if it may be the cultural mindset and would like to get a Japanese opinion on that if any are reading.

In finding anime that I like, I don't like dubs. Can't stand them. I prefer to watch the movie in subtitles as I want to hear the actors voice. The headmasters episodes I watched was subtitled and I still didn't like them. I may give Cybertron a chance sometime though. I am open to it if it's good.

Optimizzy wrote:In finding anime that I like, I don't like dubs. Can't stand them. I prefer to watch the movie in subtitles as I want to hear the actors voice. The headmasters episodes I watched was subtitled and I still didn't like them. I may give Cybertron a chance sometime though. I am open to it if it's good.

It is probably the best dub of the Unicron Trilogy, but if you'd rather watch the original Japanese version, Galaxy Force, that's possible too since TV-Nihon has fansubbed the whole thing.

thats pretty cool. Ill check out both, see which I like better. Thanks

Optimizzy wrote:thats pretty cool. Ill check out both, see which I like better. Thanks

Though, I also recommended checking out Masterforce, as it's arguably the best Japanese TF series of them all.

My previous post explains more, but if you already watch subtitled anime anyway, forget what I said about ignoring the TV-Nihon fansubs for Masterforce.

I don't really watch anime at all. I do watch Japanese cinema with subtitles. I've never really liked anime in any format. However, I will look into master force. I'm willing to give anything a chance. Thanks for that. I think Akira and maybe Spirited Away are the only animes I could stomach. I know that's very critical but that's the way it is with me.

Sabrblade wrote:

Optimizzy wrote:thats pretty cool. Ill check out both, see which I like better. Thanks

Though, I also recommended checking out Masterforce, as it's arguably the best Japanese TF series of them all.

My previous post explains more, but if you already watch subtitled anime anyway, forget what I said about ignoring the TV-Nihon fansubs for Masterforce.

Masterforce is a great example of a Japanese saturday-morning cartoon gone horribly right.

RhA wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Optimizzy wrote:thats pretty cool. Ill check out both, see which I like better. Thanks

Though, I also recommended checking out Masterforce, as it's arguably the best Japanese TF series of them all.

My previous post explains more, but if you already watch subtitled anime anyway, forget what I said about ignoring the TV-Nihon fansubs for Masterforce.

Masterforce is a great example of a Japanese saturday-morning cartoon gone horribly right.

I find it funny that out of Headmasters, Masterforce and Victory--as I own all three series--Masterforce is still the only one I've watched in its entirety. I'm glad I got lucky and chose the best one to watch. lol

Though, to be fair to Victory, I did watch a few episodes and found that I didn't mind it. No doubt Hellbat is responsible for that.

Yeah, Victory is pretty much like Japan's attempt at creating their own counterpart to the G1 cartoon. Similar plot format, old-fashioned "Autobots rage their battle to destroy the evil forces of the Decepticons", unique cast of characters, and above all, combiner-heavy.

It's only real fault is how light it is on having an actual ongoing storyline for its first half. By the second half of the series, however, it has so much more going on for it story-wise.

And, ya'll know how combiners are typically handled by introducing all team members in one episode and then having them all combine either in that same episode or the next one? Well, while Victory's guilty of that too with most of its combiners, it does the exact opposite for Liokaiser. Throughout the course of the series, we get the members of this team little by little, so as to let each component be seen as their own character and develop some of them over time. By the time we're introduced to the last member, they still work to build up to the gestalt's big reveal, in which he is finally revealed an episode later.

And usually when it comes to Decepticon combiners, they're revealed to be uber powerful in their debut, but still utterly beaten by the Autobots by the episode's conclusion. With Liokaiser, however, not only do they build up to his debut over a long period of time, but when he finally does debut, it is HE who wins the battle. Sure, he's beaten back like any Con combiner, but only because of a deus ex machina in the form of God Ginrai arrived to help fight him but...

Wait, no, even God Ginrai proved ineffective by himself against Liokaiser. Liokaiser was only beaten when the God Ginrai and Liokaiser's first opponent, Star Saber, double-teamed against Liokaiser, but while they managed to send Liokaiser's split components running, Star Saber collapsed, severely damaged from the battle. In the G1 cartoon, when such a victory would happen, the Autobot(s) who won would stand tall and proud, but Star Saber instead was so badly wounded that he couldn't even stand. Even though the Cons retreated, they were still in much better condition than Star Saber was and only fled because they knew that God Ginrai could still beat them individually. So, theirs was more of a tactical retreat since they still managed to deal a crippling blow to Star Saber, and that's just the advantage they'd need long term.

And what's more is that, whenever Liokaiser would reappear, he still proved to be a force to be reckoned with. The writers didn't just give him those "first-time awesomeness to get kids to buy his toy" powers, rather, they kept his power consistently strong throughout the show, making him one of the biggest obstacles for the Autobots in the show.

Optimizzy wrote:...In finding anime that I like, I don't like dubs. Can't stand them. I prefer to watch the movie in subtitles as I want to hear the actors voice. The headmasters episodes I watched was subtitled and I still didn't like them. I may give Cybertron a chance sometime though. I am open to it if it's good.

You can find English dubbed Anime that is better than the original Japanese dialogue. It's interesting that, looking back to when dubbing began, a fraction, was excellent. At least equal to the original and sometimes better. Over the years, this trend has increased. You can find English dubs of Anime, where the voice director & translator, improved the performance when compared to the Japanese language original. You can find good Anime reviewers who echo this in many places online.

I especially love it when both the original and the dub are both well played. Where, when I listen and read the subtitle performance, & then switch to the dubbed performance, I get the same movie, but almost new. It IS the same, just with a different cast performing the parts. This shows respect from the dubbing studio.

It's sad when I listen to a dub, that takes the performance more seriously than the original. I've actually found some Anime, where the Japanese voice acting was lazy, terrible, & not taken seriously.

Usually, subtitled is best, but there is a lot of great dubbed work too.

I found a masterforce fandub on youtube, and so far it's pretty awesome. At least for a fandub. There are some moments that are cringe-worthy but largely I can ignore it so far. I really appreciate the comments. Maybe this will be one that I can enjoy.


edit: not sure about how authentic this is. It has Beast Wars footage...what?

Optimizzy wrote:I found a masterforce fandub on youtube, and so far it's pretty awesome. At least for a fandub. There are some moments that are cringe-worthy but largely I can ignore it so far. I really appreciate the comments. Maybe this will be one that I can enjoy.

All Masterforce fandubs are garbage.

I'm kinda discovering this, however, the premise of the show is intriguing. Anyone know if this is on DVD or streaming?


I do have to say that in this fandub, Submarauder shouts "goddammit!" when the tentakil gets all exploded. I laughed out loud. I'm at work on lunch and everyone looked at me.

Optimizzy wrote:I'm kinda discovering this, however, the premise of the show is intriguing. Anyone know if this is on DVD or streaming?

In my first post here, I listed some options for you, but I'll elaborate more on this below.

DVD-wise, you have three options:

• The UK DVDs from Metrodome
• The Australian DVDs from Madman Entertainment
• The U.S. DVDs from Shout! Factory

But, I would avoid the Shout! Factory DVDs like the plague, as the subtitles contained in those destroy the integrity of the Japanese dialogue by rewriting text to be more "Hasbro-ized" and to just say things that differ from what's actually being spoken on screen.

The UK and AU DVDs have much more faithful and accurate subtitles.

There is also the option of the fansubs from TV-Nihon, which are also quite faithful and were the original source material used for the subtitles of all three DVD releases (the U.S. DVDs, however, just changed a lot more than the other two did).

Though, these fansubs contain some Japanese words that were left untranslated because of how TV-Nihon works. They like to leave some certain words unlocalized so as to maintain their original meaning (and because they think it's cool).

If you don't mind some few words being left as their are, the TV-Nihon fansubs will do. But if you prefer all words in the subtitles to be in English, then go for either the UK or Australian DVDs.

If your okay with the fansubs, you can find all of the episodes and the bonus short episode (which is not included in any DVD release) in this YouTube playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL78i-W9JVS_H4kqzYbA48BfZMVGtK1V8U

You did mention that info already, my bad. Thanks for the reminder though, I appreciate it. Looking forward to watching things, I kinda like it and that's really a first for me.