The Energon Pub

Juggernaut is the mystical-powered near-unstoppable mutant.

The Fallen is one of the Original 13 created by Primus, and completely evil.

Who. Will. Win?

Unless the Fallen has abilities along the lines of Onslaught.

The Juggernaut wins.

The Fallen, that guy is like a mini Unicron (the godly comic version that is).

The most impressive things the Fallens done is beat up Grimlock and be on fire.

He may be a mini unicron still doesn't mean he can hurt Juggernaut. You have to be more powerful than Cytorack to do that. So unless I see some causal solar system blowing up from the fallen, he's not winning.

I'm not caught up with the latest semi-god version of Juggernaut... can he survive without oxygen?

an interesting fight. the fallen might be backed up by a god, but arguably, so is the juggernaut. cytorak is extremely powerful in his own right, and uses juggernaut as his avatar. i think it comes down to how much power unicron has given the fallen.

magic can hurt the juggernaut, and for the same or argument lets say thats what the fallen has, but it needs to me magic stronger than the juggernauts which would be debatable given the limited amount we have seen of the fallen. juggernaut doesnt eat or breathe or fagigue, ever, but does the fallen? the juggernaut has not only withstood thors godforce, but stood there unharmed and continued to take it. as far as i know thors godforce is planet shattering in power, and the juggernaut was unimpressed.

so can the fallen manage something that powerful? and if so, how long can he keep it up. the juggernaut has been reduced to a skeleton by a magical attack, and he not only survived it, but he won the fight. im incluned to side with the juggernaut, simply becuase his power is better documented.

Juggernauts will make The Fallen his b*tch

The Fallen will send Juggernaut to hell (he can do that). Juggernaut has a chance but Fallen didn't seem to be phased or even care about guns or any other kind of weapon until he was vaporized by Primus' power.

It's hard to say what the limit of either one's power is, Juggernaut could potentially beat him to a pulp, but then again who knows what The Fallen's weapons do.

It seems we need more info on The Fallen.

Thanatos Prime wrote:It seems we need more info on The Fallen.

*Nods* Indeed.

I'm hoping good ol' Stormwolf can enlighten us further on The Fallen. Perhaps a couple of feats from some comic books?

I really like The Fallen (though I know zilch about him), and I'm hoping he can beat The Juggernaut. But so far, Juggs seems to be the clear victor.

The Fallen never had to show many of his abilities since he was easily above any of his opponents. However it has been pointed out that the other originals had to lock him into a pocket dimension to defeat him the last time around.

His brothers however have shown feats like:
- Bringing armies of dead transformers back to life (Last Autobot)
- Restoring Cybertron from the damage inflicted by Unicron (Last Autobot)
- Spawning armies that number beyond trillions. (Liege Maximo)
- Displaying Deathstar level firepower (Liege Maximo)
- Resistance to any conventional damage (All)

All originals seem to share a number of standard powers and have a set of powers they are specialized in (The Last Autobot for instance was specialized in restoring). The Fallen's specialty is entropy which is aging and dissolution (he was supposed to observe how everything in the universe would come to a end).


And how can this guy beat the Juggernaut you ask?
The Fallen has had to fight guys that were powered with godly powers before. The Juggernaut never really had any opponents with that kind power (and he's been noted to get damaged from that sort of thing though).

The Juggernaut usually only relies on brute strength and a rarely seen regeneration capabality. The Fallen has those things plus a excellent understanding of mystic powers (like when he wanted weaken Primus' seal). The Fallen also seems to have to some kind of a mental sensing ability when he approached Bludgeon and his group. Torchy also appeared to teleport to Grimlock's location during Dark Ages (either that or he's really bloody fast).

In a confrontation between the two I'd see The Fallen use his powers to weaken and disrupt Cyttorak's connection to the Juggernaut. After that he'd simply torch Cain Marko.

If that doesn't work, then he'd just lock the Juggernaut up in a dimensional prison (that's appearently where all things end up that the originals want to get rid off...).

So I can't see Juggernaut beat The Fallen unless Cyttorak himself steps in.

The last Autobot isn't a memember of the 13. Besides matter manipulation and ability to heal injuries is nothing other people in Juggernauts power class haven't done even on the scale the last Autobot did.

The Juggernaut never really had any opponents with that kind power

The Juggernaut has fought Thor before. Who has countless powers due to his hammer.

Displaying Deathstar level firepower (Liege Maximo)

Won't hurt juggernaut he's survived Thors Godblast. People with Thor level strength have destroyed planets with physical blows (Beta ray bill Gladiator) So imagine what Thors finishing move can do. People in Thor and Juggernauts weight class have destroyed planets by powering up.

Removing Juggernaut from the battle field would get the Fallen a win. Its just depends whether he can do it before Juggernaut rips his leg off an beats him to death with it.

Inferno Prime wrote:The last Autobot isn't a memember of the 13. Besides matter manipulation and ability to heal injuries is nothing other people in Juggernauts power class haven't done even on the scale the last Autobot did.

Yes, he's only the template character whose notes were rewritten into the other originals.

The Last Autobot and later Liege Maximo were going to get a entire storyline written about them (und thus the originals were going to get explored). But Hasbro was kind enough to pull the plug on that .

Simon Furman stated this when he wrote Dark Age.

Inferno Prime wrote:

The Juggernaut never really had any opponents with that kind power

The Juggernaut has fought Thor before. Who has countless powers due to his hammer.

But those occasions have been rare. And the Fallen doesn't have a girly haircut

Juggs is usually the character written in so the X-men can use their telepathic characters over their super strong characters to convey the message of brain over brawn. Really, how many times has Juggernaut used Colossus as a punching bag now? I bet it's more times then he's tackled with Thor.

Inferno Prime wrote:

Displaying Deathstar level firepower (Liege Maximo)

Won't hurt juggernaut he's survived Thors Godblast. People with Thor level strength have destroyed planets with physical blows (Beta ray bill Gladiator) So imagine what Thors finishing move can do. People in Thor and Juggernauts weight class have destroyed planets by powering up.

Liege Maximo was pouring most of his powers into that Ascension thing while doing it, so there's no way he was at full strength.

And While on that subject, Liege Maximo showed that the originals can become full gods like Primus or Unicron.

Inferno Prime wrote:Removing Juggernaut from the battle field would get the Fallen a win. Its just depends whether he can do it before Juggernaut rips his leg off an beats him to death with it.

None of the originals have ever been seen taking damage from physical attacks.

So far only The Fallen was taken out by Primus by some godly energy thing. Then there's the battle between Prima and Liege Maximo, but we never got any info on what happend (we only found out that Liege Maximo killed the first Prime).

The J can be beaten with a big electric shock up the ass. (Deadpool 2 movie) The F wins. (What the F?!)