The Energon Pub

Okay, so I've been really into Transformers for a couple of years now, but only really the vehicle based series like G1, Unicron Trilogy and Animated. Even though Beast Wars was the series that was around when I was a kid, I've never really been that into it- until now.

It started when I was bored in a comic shop a couple months ago, and ended up buying the Beast Wars Sourcebook volume 1 to keep myself amused. Reading through it, I started thinking back to the series; I remembered watching the cartoon at my Grandma's house, and staring at the figures on Jenners toy shop shelves, especially Razorbeast. Around the same time, I also learned, much to my excitement that Waspinator (one of the best characters in TF history) was going to appear in Animated, and that led me to start browsing through some galleries of him here on Seibertron. Next thing you know, I'm also staring at pictures of Inferno (another one of my favourite characters, I remember him being awesome in the show), then Transmetal Scavenger, and then more and more.
I've now started re-watching the cartoon and am really getting into it, and I've already built up an extensive BW wishlist, including Beetle, Inferno, Rattrap, Bantor, Spittor, Air Hammer and of course Razorbeast. Don't know when I'll be able to afford any of them, but I can always wish...

I'm aware that there isn't really any point in this post, I've just been musing on how easily your mind can be changed about something and you can realise that you like something a lot more than you thought.

Yeah, Beast Wars can do that to ya.

Afer all, it was/is the best Transformers series of them all (IMHO).

I've given Beast Wars a shot...But I just can't get into it...It's not terrible but it just doesn't grab me at all...


Oddly enough though, I've been kinda getting into Animated lately..Well no, I shouldn't say INTO really...But I'm finding it to be better than I've previously thought it was...There some surprisingly good episodes...

Armada was OKAY...But I lost interest a little ways in...Just a bit too Pokemon-y for my tastes...And I haven't watched Energon or Cybertron because I never finished Armada...

RID I couldn't make myself watch more than one episode, it was so terrible...

typh0id wrote:I've given Beast Wars a shot...But I just can't get into it...It's not terrible but it just doesn't grab me at all...


Oddly enough though, I've been kinda getting into Animated lately..Well no, I shouldn't say INTO really...But I'm finding it to be better than I've previously thought it was...There some surprisingly good episodes...

Armada was OKAY...But I lost interest a little ways in...Just a bit too Pokemon-y for my tastes...And I haven't watched Energon or Cybertron because I never finished Armada...

RID I couldn't make myself watch more than one episode, it was so terrible...

Yeah, i've found a new appreciation for BW as of late, but still think Beast Machines was god aweful.

RID is somewhere between uggg and crap, but i can't exactly place it.

And the Pokemon trilogy, err Unicron trilogy, wasa disgrace. Try as i might, i cant get over a 30ft tall ash catchem who become a truck.

It took me about 5 episodes to get over the animation style of animated, but now i cant wait to see the next season.

It's pretentious to quote oneself, but here's my take on Beast Wars, shamelessly ripped from my Amazon review, because I, too, grappled with Beast Wars as a die hard G1 fan. "The best way to enjoy Beast Wars is to think of it like a drinking game. Every time they zoom in to Cheetor's animal face looking roundeyed and surprised, drink! Every time someone says "beast wars" like they're expecting a papier-mache duck to drop down like it's the Secret Word, drink! Every time Rattrap says something racially insensitive to Dinobot, drink! Every time Megatron ends a sentence with a long drawn out 'Yeeeess' or 'Noooo'.... well, you get the idea."

Season one doesn't hit its stride until rather late--"The Low Road" remains my favorite episode, though I do love "Possession", too. Season Two is full of good moments--"Transmutate" is about as solid old-school sci-fi as anyone could want--by Season Three, I spent so much time getting cheezed at what Hasbro was doing to hamstring the series that I was almost glad when it died. They'd...sorta mucked it up.

It's not my favorite continuity, but it does have a place in my heart. (Sniff sniff, poor Dinobot!)

HK, who could use a good drinking game.

hellkitty wrote:It's pretentious to quote oneself, but here's my take on Beast Wars, shamelessly ripped from my Amazon review, because I, too, grappled with Beast Wars as a die hard G1 fan. "The best way to enjoy Beast Wars is to think of it like a drinking game. Every time they zoom in to Cheetor's animal face looking roundeyed and surprised, drink! Every time someone says "beast wars" like they're expecting a papier-mache duck to drop down like it's the Secret Word, drink! Every time Rattrap says something racially insensitive to Dinobot, drink! Every time Megatron ends a sentence with a long drawn out 'Yeeeess' or 'Noooo'.... well, you get the idea."

Season one doesn't hit its stride until rather late--"The Low Road" remains my favorite episode, though I do love "Possession", too. Season Two is full of good moments--"Transmutate" is about as solid old-school sci-fi as anyone could want--by Season Three, I spent so much time getting cheezed at what Hasbro was doing to hamstring the series that I was almost glad when it died. They'd...sorta mucked it up.

It's not my favorite continuity, but it does have a place in my heart. (Sniff sniff, poor Dinobot!)

HK, who could use a good drinking game.

Hehehe Nice...

I may go back sometime and give it another chance...But it's not high on my list...And another problem is that while it wasn't bad for it's time, the CG is just wretched by today's standards and it's hard for me to take it seriously...I don't have nearly as much trouble with vintage 2D animation, but underdeveloped 3D just looks really really lame...

Name_Violation wrote:It took me about 5 episodes to get over the animation style of animated, but now i cant wait to see the next season.

Yeah that was one of the big hurdles for me...But the toys actually helped me a lot in getting used to the art-style...I still don't PREFER it at all, but I'm much more used to it...And I've finished the first season and actually enjoyed the bulk of it...There were a few episodes that were yawners but some of them were certainly chuckle worthy (like Headmaster) and I REALLY like how Megatron is depicted in the series...He actually inspires dread and fear in others...

Being 29 I was all G1. By the time Beast Wars came around I think I was in college and I couldn't get into it at all. It just didn't seem right that TF's were animals. That and the animation creeped me out. It was realistic but not. Weird.

Beast Wars was a special time.

I never bought a single toy during the time it was on, and when I first saw the show I thought it was an abomination. After the second season started I tried a couple episodes as friends had said it was better than I thought it was and sure enough, a few weeks later we were all getting together at a buddy's (well, former buddy, but that's a whole other ball of wax) place to hang out, have a drink, dinner and watch the new episode of Beasties and Shadow Raiders.

Ah.. good times...

It's also the same reason why I have tried to give the other newer series a chance rather than write them off straight away. Personally I bet if most of the animated naysayers sat down and tried watching for what it is, rather than what they think it is, that there would be a few converts.

I really can't bash Beast Wars, because it is what got me into Transformers. I grew up on Beast Wars, not knowing anything about the G1 lore that preceeded it. If it hadn't been for Beast Wars, I would not be here as the huge TF fan that I am today.

Here's how I figure that. My love for Beast Wars led me to watching Beast Machines, which then led me to wanting to watch RiD back when it aired after BM, which got me into looking for TF websites, which got me finding out about the upcoming Aramada series, which got me confused since (for some unknown reason) I assumed RiD would be the end of it. To quell my confusion, I went looking for info and discovered G1. From then on, I began to watch G1, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, the movie, RiD (I missed it during its initial run), Animated The Headmasters, Chojin Masterforce, Victory, and Zone.

I owe all my TF knowledge to being exposed to Beast Wars.

Beast Wars is the best TF series ever.... this coming from a 26 year old that remembers G1.

SJ21 wrote:Being 29 I was all G1. By the time Beast Wars came around I think I was in college and I couldn't get into it at all. It just didn't seem right that TF's were animals. That and the animation creeped me out. It was realistic but not. Weird.

I'm also 29 and that's EXACTLY the way it was for me...

Editor wrote:
It's also the same reason why I have tried to give the other newer series a chance rather than write them off straight away. Personally I bet if most of the animated naysayers sat down and tried watching for what it is, rather than what they think it is, that there would be a few converts.

I couldn't agree more...I am not hardcore into Animated by any stretch...But it is DEFINATELY better than I initially gave it credit for...

I hated it when I first saw it. Had grown up on the Marvel UK comics and I just thought Scorponok was an insult to the G1 legend of the same name.

Was also trying to figure out if Scorponok, Megatron and Optimus were meant to be the same characters as their G1 namesakes.

Black Arachnia and Rattrap bugged the hell out of me.

Plus was in early twenties and had outgrown TF's at the time.

I did get into Beast Machines as it shared some writers with Gargoyles and Batman if I remember correctly. Although I thought the legless Vehicons Thrust and Jetstorm looked awful.

Anyway a few years past and I got back into collecting. Then I picked up a BW DVD with 7 episodes starting with Agenda.

The whole G1 tie-in with Ravage, Prime and the Ark just knocked me back.

I hadn't been so impressed by a TF cartoon since the 1986 movie.

Ended up buying all 3 seasons and it is now my favourite TF animated series.

Love IDW's BW series as well.

I loved BW for the stories and plot and animation. I loved that they tied it into G1. With the exception of G1, it's my favorite series, w/ Animated sort behind. I've often thought about trying to buy the characters from the series most of which I already have including Optimus Primal, Cheetor, Rhinox, Dinobot, Transmetal Cheetor, Optimal Optimus. Predacons I have include Megatron, (a repaint of) Terrasaur, Inferno, Tarantulus, Quickstrike, Scorponok.
So I'd need Transmetal Primal and Megs, Rattrap & Transmetal Rattrap, AirRaizor, Tigertron, Tigerhawk (who I had once and sold), Dept Charge, Black Aracnia, TM2 Black Aracnia and the list goes on til I'm broke...(thus I'd never do it)
I'll stick w/ G1 and Classics

Where to begin.....

Beast Wars was always, to me, the best Transformers series around. I enjoyed the series on TV, and the toys, to me, were completely awesome. I liked the idea of not only Transformers that turn into animals, but they looked like real animals....hence my favoritisim for the first season. I liked how the first season only had a FEW G1 references, cause, as some may know, I am not the biggest G1 fan, apart from the movie and the 3rd season. Season's 1 and 2 of G1 were rubbish to me.

Anyhow, I liked seeing actual characterization in Beast Wars, where as guys like Sun Streaker, Sideswipe, and such ( who probably only had 100 or less words during their time on screen. I always liked Rattrap, Tarantulas, Blackarachnia, and so on. Also, this series made female Transformers more commen, while pissing off the hardcore "no girls in Transformers!!!!" fanboys

The CGI is still fine with me, some call it arachic, but G1 was no work of art.....plus most of the G1 toys were statues.

And to any naysayer, Beast Wars pretty much revived Transformers when it was in limbo for several years previous. Plus it made many now commen terminology....like sparks, protoforms, statis lock, and all that.

My only hope is that we get to see Maximal and Predacon back in action again, and not just in comics.

Emperor Primacron the 1st wrote:The CGI is still fine with me, some call it arachic, but G1 was no work of art.....plus most of the G1 toys were statues.

I don't really know anything about the original Beast Wars toys, as I never had (and still don't) any interest in them...But I agree that a large number of G1 toys weren't all that great...Awesome at the time, but by today's standards definately not too super outside of the nostalgia factor...

However I disagree with you about the CG...While it's true the 2d animation in G1 isn't AS good as what we have today, 2D animation still ages a LOT better than 3D...Old 2D is still basically as good as the artists who drew it (even if the animation itself has gotten better)...But 3D is based much moreso on the actual technology...And 3D rendering has improved DRAMATICALLY over the last decade, making the older stuff look rediculously blocky, stiff, and fake...Sure it was cool at the time, but we've seen SO much better by this point that just like the G1 toys, without some specific nostalgia attached to it, it really doesn't hold up today...

typh0id wrote:However I disagree with you about the CG...While it's true the 2d animation in G1 isn't AS good as what we have today, 2D animation still ages a LOT better than 3D...Old 2D is still basically as good as the artists who drew it (even if the animation itself has gotten better)...But 3D is based much moreso on the actual technology...And 3D rendering has improved DRAMATICALLY over the last decade, making the older stuff look rediculously blocky, stiff, and fake...Sure it was cool at the time, but we've seen SO much better by this point that just like the G1 toys, without some specific nostalgia attached to it, it really doesn't hold up today...

Yes, but when you compare the CGI of Beast Wars and Beast Machines to the CGI of later series like Energon, RobotMasters, and Cybertron, Beast Wars and Beast Machines still had the better look of the two time periods. While some say that the CGI of the Beast Era was primitive, at least it was able to show emotion and facial expression in the characters, whereas Energon and Cybertron couldn't do more than "mouth open, mouth closed".

Sabrblade wrote:Yes, but whne you compare the CG! of Beast Wars and Beast Machines to the CGI of later series like Energon, RobotMasters, and Cybertron, Beast Wars and Beast Machines still had the better look of the two time periods. While some say that the CGI of the Beast Era was primitive, at least was able to show emotion and facil expression in the characters, whereas Energon and Cybertron couldn't do more than "mouth open, mouth closed".

Well yeah I'll give you that...And I'm not terribly fond of the CG in Energon/Cybertron either...

For all the awesome BW was, Beast Machines was twice as horible. Preachermus Prime was god aweful. Black Arachnia as a damsel in distress? That show is 99% of why i hate maximals. DW/IDW atleast redeemed the beast factions, but still. Prime was a joke, Arachia was pitiful, and Silverbolt was depressing. It had a few ok things, i liked silvervolt as the vehicon, and Rhinox becoming the EVIL Tankorr was cool, but monkeys slingshottng Waspinator into space? I liked the take on Megatron, and Botanica was very original, but thats hardly enough to redeem the horrendousness of it all. It makes my eyes burn and ears want to stab themselves.

Name_Violation wrote:For all the awesome BW was, Beast Machines was twice as horible. Preachermus Prime was god aweful. Black Arachnia as a damsel in distress? That show is 99% of why i hate maximals. DW/IDW atleast redeemed the beast factions, but still. Prime was a joke, Arachia was pitiful, and Silverbolt was depressing. It had a few ok things, i liked silvervolt as the vehicon, and Rhinox becoming the EVIL Tankorr was cool, but monkeys slingshottng Waspinator into space? I liked the take on Megatron, and Botanica was very original, but thats hardly enough to redeem the horrendousness of it all. It makes my eyes burn and ears want to stab themselves.

There was no "Prime" in BW or BM. Unless you count his stasis locked body in the Ark, whose head got blasted by Megs, or that phony hologram of him in Iacon that Megs used.

At least Silverbolt wasn't speaking in that cheesy wannabe-medieval dialogue or going gaga over Blackarachnia.

The protohumans didn't slingshot Waspy into space. He didn't any farther than the sky. It was never confirmed how he got back to Cybertron (as he only said that it "Took [him] forver" to get back), but a cancelled Primeval Dawn comic would've had him go back with Primal Prime's crew, only to get his spark removed and later put in Thrust's body.

You gotta admit, the second season was better than the first. And the G1 references (Key to Vector Sigma, Plasma Energy Chamber, Iacon, etc.) were kinda cool. And its finale with Primal and Megs as the last two living TF on all of Cybertron duking it out and having to kill each other was pretty cool.

But, yeah, the whole "nature vs. technology" could've been done better/differently. But it wasn't so much as that kind of conflict as it was more of a "balance vs. extremism" conflict.

Sabrblade wrote:

Name_Violation wrote:For all the awesome BW was, Beast Machines was twice as horible. Preachermus Prime was god aweful. Black Arachnia as a damsel in distress? That show is 99% of why i hate maximals. DW/IDW atleast redeemed the beast factions, but still. Prime was a joke, Arachia was pitiful, and Silverbolt was depressing. It had a few ok things, i liked silvervolt as the vehicon, and Rhinox becoming the EVIL Tankorr was cool, but monkeys slingshottng Waspinator into space? I liked the take on Megatron, and Botanica was very original, but thats hardly enough to redeem the horrendousness of it all. It makes my eyes burn and ears want to stab themselves.

There was no "Prime" in BW or BM. Unless you count his stasis locked body in the Ark, whose head got blasted by Megs, or that phony hologram of him in Iacon that Megs used.

At least Silverbolt wasn't speaking in that cheesy wannabe-medieval dialogue or going gaga over Blackarachnia.

The protohumans didn't slingshot Waspy into space. He didn't any farther than the sky. It was never confirmed how he got back to Cybertron (as he only said that it "Took [him] forver" to get back), but a cancelled Primeval Dawn comic would've had him go back with Primal Prime's crew, only to get his spark removed and later put in Thrust's body.

You gotta admit, the second season was better than the first. And the G1 references (Key to Vector Sigma, Plasma Energy Chamber, Iacon, etc.) were kinda cool. And its finale with Primal and Megs as the last two living TF on all of Cybertron duking it out and having to kill each other was pretty cool.

But, yeah, the whole "nature vs. technology" could've been done better/differently. But it wasn't so much as that kind of conflict as it was more of a "balance vs. extreemism" conflict.

Blame Hasbro for that one, Larry Ditillo, before being let go by Hasbro, had the concept for "Beast Hunters", which I will explain later tonight.

Sabrblade wrote:

Name_Violation wrote:For all the awesome BW was, Beast Machines was twice as horible. Preachermus Prime was god aweful. Black Arachnia as a damsel in distress? That show is 99% of why i hate maximals. DW/IDW atleast redeemed the beast factions, but still. Prime was a joke, Arachia was pitiful, and Silverbolt was depressing. It had a few ok things, i liked silvervolt as the vehicon, and Rhinox becoming the EVIL Tankorr was cool, but monkeys slingshottng Waspinator into space? I liked the take on Megatron, and Botanica was very original, but thats hardly enough to redeem the horrendousness of it all. It makes my eyes burn and ears want to stab themselves.

There was no "Prime" in BW or BM. Unless you count his stasis locked body in the Ark, whose head got blasted by Megs, or that phony hologram of him in Iacon that Megs used.

At least Silverbolt wasn't speaking in that cheesy wannabe-medieval dialogue or going gaga over Blackarachnia.

The protohumans didn't slingshot Waspy into space. He didn't any farther than the sky. It was never confirmed how he got back to Cybertron (as he only said that it "Took [him] forver" to get back), but a cancelled Primeval Dawn comic would've had him go back with Primal Prime's crew, only to get his spark removed and later put in Thrust's body.

You gotta admit, the second season was better than the first. And the G1 references (Key to Vector Sigma, Plasma Energy Chamber, Iacon, etc.) were kinda cool. And its finale with Primal and Megs as the last two living TF on all of Cybertron duking it out and having to kill each other was pretty cool.

But, yeah, the whole "nature vs. technology" could've been done better/differently. But it wasn't so much as that kind of conflict as it was more of a "balance vs. extreemism" conflict.

Prime, Primal, same diff. i'm looking up some other stuff and will come back to this later

The Beast Hunters story would have been like this:

After the Beast Wars, Primal and company would have returned to Cybertron, loosing Megatron along the way. When having returned to Cybertron, they would have discoverd a technorganic world controlled by Megatron and the Vok. ( Remember, Megatron was very impressed by the Vok's organic-based technology, and was very pleased with his dragon beast mode. ) Tigerhawk would have been a sorta of link between Megatron and the Vok. (Tigerhawk was orginally planned for Beast Hunters, but Hasbro suits wanted to see the toy right away instead. ). Primal, Cheetor, and Blackarachnia would have been captured and turned into technorganic monsters. Silverbolt, Rhinox, and Rattrap were going to be the heros, and they would have had bodies similer to the Vehicons. The Hasbro suits said it was "Not PC", and was dumped, got rid of Detillio and hired Skir.

Now, this might be a coincidence or not, but seeing the original prototype pictures for the Vehicon toys, they had Maximal sparks in them. Now they might have been just using some leftover sparks laying around, I don't know, but it's neat cause it adds to the whole Beast Hunters idea.

Emperor Primacron the 1st wrote:The Beast Hunters story would have been like this:

After the Beast Wars, Primal and company would have returned to Cybertron, loosing Megatron along the way. When having returned to Cybertron, they would have discoverd a technorganic world controlled by Megatron and the Vok. ( Remember, Megatron was very impressed by the Vok's organic-based technology, and was very pleased with his dragon beast mode. ) Tigerhawk would have been a sorta of link between Megatron and the Vok. (Tigerhawk was orginally planned for Beast Hunters, but Hasbro suits wanted to see the toy right away instead. ). Primal, Cheetor, and Blackarachnia would have been captured and turned into technorganic monsters. Silverbolt, Rhinox, and Rattrap were going to be the heros, and they would have had bodies similer to the Vehicons. The Hasbro suits said it was "Not PC", and was dumped, got rid of Detillio and hired Skir.

Now, this might be a coincidence or not, but seeing the original prototype pictures for the Vehicon toys, they had Maximal sparks in them. Now they might have been just using some leftover sparks laying around, I don't know, but it's neat cause it adds to the whole Beast Hunters idea.

Damn, that sounds cool. And personally it sounds better than the Beast Machines concept.

I wonder how that works into Transtech, as that also sounds like it could fit better that the way BM ended.

Wow, people bashing Beast Wars, Beast Machines AND Robots in Disguise all in one thread. I guess some people have no taste

In my eyes, Beast Wars and Robots in Disguise are the best two series. Everyone can rant and rave about how G1 is so much better because its first, but BW and RiD had better story lines. Plus, G1 Megatron was an idiot. G1 wasn't terrible at all, but I hate that everyone puts it up on some mantle just because it was the first one.

original sin wrote:Wow, people bashing Beast Wars, Beast Machines AND Robots in Disguise all in one thread. I guess some people have no taste

In my eyes, Beast Wars and Robots in Disguise are the best two series. Everyone can rant and rave about how G1 is so much better because its first, but BW and RiD had better story lines. Plus, G1 Megatron was an idiot. G1 wasn't terrible at all, but I hate that everyone puts it up on some mantle just because it was the first one.

Thanks.

Or it's those, "If it ain't 80's, it sucks!" mentality. Plus while Low road was silly.....it was not as silly as 'hoist goes to hollywood', 'girl who loved powerglide', or my most hated G1 story 'A Decepticon in King Aurthor's Court'