The Energon Pub

Should 12 million illegal Mexicans be made citizens overnight?

Since my heart bleeds so many gallons every day, I'm going with my gut reaction and saying "Great, they should be made citizens. Now they really will have a better life."

But I know there's some big dark side to all this that I'm missing. I keep thinking "wouldn't it be better for the economy to have more people earning money and paying taxes?"

But would that just mean that now jobs will be even harder to find? How much would actually change? Illegals use fake identities to get real work. I've seen it happen right under my nose. Then they don't pay taxes but do get back money, essentially robbing the citizens. To me, it just seems better to make them citizens, do away with all the lies, and make them pay taxes like everyone else.

I really want to know, what's the dark side to free citizenship overnight? What am I not thinking about?

Dark Zarak wrote:Should 12 million illegal Mexicans be made citizens overnight?

Since my heart bleeds so many gallons every day, I'm going with my gut reaction and saying "Great, they should be made citizens. Now they really will have a better life."

But I know there's some big dark side to all this that I'm missing. I keep thinking "wouldn't it be better for the economy to have more people earning money and paying taxes?"

But would that just mean that now jobs will be even harder to find? How much would actually change? Illegals use fake identities to get real work. I've seen it happen right under my nose. Then they don't pay taxes but do get back money, essentially robbing the citizens. To me, it just seems better to make them citizens, do away with all the lies, and make them pay taxes like everyone else.

I really want to know, what's the dark side to free citizenship overnight? What am I not thinking about?

The dark side is that they don't have to learn English, they do NOT earn it like everyone else legally, and they "jump the line" in front of those who do it according to our laws.

Just come to Texas, I had a woman at work DEMAND I speak to her in Spanish. The arrogance, plus they often want special treatment for their children b/c they are too lazy/dumb/unmotivated/don't care to learn our language in OUR country.

That is just a part of the dark side, and this issue alone, will determine who I vote in for 2008.

Party is irrelevant for me now, national security, and maintaining our 1st World status and national identity is more important that political posturing/masturbation.

I'm all for it. It's either be there illegally or be there legally not really all that much the US system can do about it.

Besides Texas and the some of the other States originally belonged to Mexico, so they're just moving back in.

Mkall wrote:I'm all for it. It's either be there illegally or be there legally not really all that much the US system can do about it.

Besides Texas and the some of the other States originally belonged to Mexico, so they're just moving back in.

I'll remind you Texas gained it's independence from Mexico a while ago.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:

Mkall wrote:I'm all for it. It's either be there illegally or be there legally not really all that much the US system can do about it.

Besides Texas and the some of the other States originally belonged to Mexico, so they're just moving back in.

I'll remind you Texas gained it's independence from Mexico a while ago.

I don't know too much about Texas, so please forgive my ignorance here, but when Texas gained its independence from Mexico, was it assimilated by the United States? Or, in other, cruder words, was it stolen?

Leonardo wrote:

YouFearGalvatron wrote:

Mkall wrote:I'm all for it. It's either be there illegally or be there legally not really all that much the US system can do about it.

Besides Texas and the some of the other States originally belonged to Mexico, so they're just moving back in.

I'll remind you Texas gained it's independence from Mexico a while ago.

I don't know too much about Texas, so please forgive my ignorance here, but when Texas gained its independence from Mexico, was it assimilated by the United States? Or, in other, cruder words, was it stolen?

Texas, as it's own country, it was annexed after Texan victory against Mexico, then beame a part of the US formally after that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Independence
Clicky

YouFearGalvatron wrote:The dark side is that they don't have to learn English, they do NOT earn it like everyone else legally, and they "jump the line" in front of those who do it according to our laws.

Just come to Texas, I had a woman at work DEMAND I speak to her in Spanish. The arrogance, plus they often want special treatment for their children b/c they are too lazy/dumb/unmotivated/don't care to learn our language in OUR country.

That is just a part of the dark side, and this issue alone, will determine who I vote in for 2008.

Party is irrelevant for me now, national security, and maintaining our 1st World status and national identity is more important that political posturing/masturbation.

See, I totally agree with you that's a problem.

But it's not the same issue. This happens every generation or so, a new bunch of immigrants that everyone hates. 100 years ago it was the Irish of all people. And the Italians.

The upcoming generation, educated in our schools like real citizens, will be groomed for our society and speak English.

As long as we're talking about what should be done, rather than what is, I say make learning English a requirement in every school that has any other language spoken prominently.

I've never seen it happen, but I'd be willing to believe that there are schools that hold Mexican childrens' hands and let them put off English as long as possible. That is wrong, yes.

I also say, phase out spanish versions of everything within the next 2 or 3 years. No more going to the DMV and accidentally grabbing the spanish booklet. They want to drive, they should be forced to learn and speak our language within a reasonable amount of time. The reward: citizenship. I see no problem with that.

I'm with you on the annoyance and arrogance of refusing to speak English. I say make them citizens for the low price of learning English enough to get by in the day to day world.

The alternative is rounding up and transporting 12 million people. Do you have any idea of how much finding, capturing, and forcefully transporting 12 million people would be? Yeah, it does kinda sting for those people who had family move to the US legally. But what can you do?

At best the American people should be saying, "yeah, these people got away with something, but there's really nothing we can do." By all means, better secure your borders from future illegal immigration, but there is not a whole lot to be done against the 12 million people already in the US.

Professor Smooth wrote:The alternative is rounding up and transporting 12 million people. Do you have any idea of how much finding, capturing, and forcefully transporting 12 million people would be? Yeah, it does kinda sting for those people who had family move to the US legally. But what can you do?

At best the American people should be saying, "yeah, these people got away with something, but there's really nothing we can do." By all means, better secure your borders from future illegal immigration, but there is not a whole lot to be done against the 12 million people already in the US.

Professor, as always, you add some flare to an already controversial issue.

You are correct, to a point.

No, we cannot round up 12,000+ people. The logistics alone would be a nightmare.

But here is what we can do, and WON'T:

1. Build a wall. A big, "ginormous" wall, as jazz might say. Put Marines on it, 24/7.

2. Make English MANDATORY. No two language BS. Just English.

3. Fine ANY employer caught hiring an illegal $25,000 PER violation, i.e., per illegal.

4. Don't hand out drivers licenses like candy on halloween to illegals.

5. Anyone found illegally will be deported within 24 hours, no questions asked. I don't care if you tried to circumvent the system by having 7 children here, who are American by birth. YOU are not American, and you must go back home...with or without your children. the choice is yours to make.

6. Start giving rewards for turning illegals in. $500 each is a fair ammount.

Problem solved.

If we can waste BILLIONS in Iraq year after year, then we can f***ing do this for even less money, and have some semblance of national security.

But it will never happen, because of the bleeding hearts and politcians affraid of losing the racist latino vote, even though they know it is against the law.

Don't give us your tired, poor, huddled masses anymore! We as a country deserve the best immigrants-doctors, teachers, engineers, etc.

But this will never be done b/c Washington has no b***s.

I think turning them into overnight citizens is a dangerous and stupid, not to mention, completely wasteful thing to do.

Yes, America is the land of opportunity and every human being should have the same rights.

Problem is, when our families came over in the early 1900's, they actually worked. They actually built the nation we're living in right this moment.

We had open hearts and open minds back then, we let every Tom, Dick, and Harry through our borders and they earned it. They busted their asses to build our metropolises, help to build a way of life, they brought their trades and taught them to others (who in turn built companies out of them, which in turn provided employment for 1,000's, perhaps 1,000,000's more.)

I know I'll be regarded as a coldhearted bastard here, but you know what? I don't give a flyin' sh*t anymore. I'm tired of pussyfooting around in the hopes I won't offend anyone. I'm sick and tired of using Political Correctness to find a nicer way of saying the most disgusting and foul things, but in a way that no one will be offended. (Bullshit, we're not stupid, we all know what people are really saying. They just don't have the balls to say it anymore.)

They weren't born here, they don't deserve to be here. They aren't American, and giving them a free ride doesn't make them one either. People whine about Welfare being bogged down as it is, and how we can't help everyone. You're damn right we can't help everyone, we're supposed to be helping AMERICANS. Not someone who sneaks in and pretends to be American.

Do I pity them and their horrific lives? You bet I do. I'd hope that no one should suffer like that. However, my family, your family, our friends shouldn't have to do without because someone's here illegally and they're taking our place in line. There's an order, a system, and we've all followed it as we were asked to. Why the hell should they get a free ride, a pat on the back, and show the rest of the world it's okay too?

I have no problems with Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Hispanics as a people. I have no problem with those that have been here, those who were born here, and those who are here LEGALLY.

I'm 110 million percent against allowing those who got here illegally (and those who will) to get for free what everyone else has worked so hard for.

I have no problem with diverse cultures, it wouldn't kill us to be able to speak another language. However, if you're on our soil, you damn well WILL learn how to speak English, and you will not demand ANYthing out of us. You're here, we're dealing with it. Be happy we've done so, as per our not so grand history, we could've wiped you out like we breathe air.

I'm so sick and tired of hearing about equality, rights, race issues and all of that bullsh*t. The minorities got what they wanted, and they still want more, more, more. Well, you're going to work for it, it's not a free ride motherf*cker. GET UP OFF YOUR ASS AND DO IT THE RIGHT WAY!

I'm all for legislation that would deny citizenship, force them to obey the laws, etc. I don't know where in the hell they got the idea that they were above the law, because they're not.

I'm not sure why legal immigrants are complaining, they got lucky, they made it. What they're bitching about is beyond my comprehension. So we don't want to have to pay for your relatives, friends and neighbors, and your 2.5 children who are all illegally here....AWW. TOO F*CKING BAD!

The more we allow people to come in here, the less help will go to those who REALLY deserve it.

My parents are handicapped, and they've been reviewed 7 times in the past decade to see if they're still handicapped enough to even deserve a medical assistance program, let alone anything else. My dad asked why he keeps getting reviewed, when they know it's impossible for him (he's in a f*ckin' wheelchair! For the rest of his life!) to leave disability and the woman said:

"Well, some unfortunate, poor soul will end up losing their disability this year. Fortunately, most of them aren't actually disabled and thus don't deserve it, so we revoke it...but a few of the honest ones have fallen through the cracks. We're bleeding money and it all has to come from somewhere, even if we have to cut corners. Sometimes those corners are people. We have too many people as it is, and with more and more illegals having children (which automatically makes the children US citizens), we just don't have enough to around for everyone."

I DON'T GIVE A FLYING F*CK! My dad worked his ass off to support his family, walking on legs crippled by Cerebral Palsy, and then those legs were crushed in a car wreck. He paid in, and he is DEFINITELY disabled. How dare a nation like ours take away from one of their own...one of their broken, and left by the wayside own.

And for what? To make sure some piece of **** who can't follow the rules gets his or her piece of the pie? NO! **** THAT AND **** YOU!

YouFearGalvatron wrote:1. Build a wall. A big, "ginormous" wall, as jazz might say. Put Marines on it, 24/7.

A great idea, but who's going to build this wall? Mexicans are willing to do that kind of work for less pay. And they'll use fake ID's. I've seen it happen. It works like clockwork. And we can't hire all whites because we are all equal oppurtunity employers. If they don't figure out all kinds of little ways under, through, or whatever around this wall, I'll be very surprised. They're making it for hell's sake, and the foreman who hates his job sure would like the grease.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:2. Make English MANDATORY. No two language BS. Just English.

Check. I have to agree with that. Hell, Mexicans I've worked with, illegal Mexicans, agree. The ones I've worked with anyway.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:3. Fine ANY employer caught hiring an illegal $25,000 PER violation, i.e., per illegal.

Check.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:4. Don't hand out drivers licenses like candy on halloween to illegals.

Do people actually do this? Gray Davis was about to until Arnold beat him in the recall.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:5. Anyone found illegally will be deported within 24 hours, no questions asked. I don't care if you tried to circumvent the system by having 7 children here, who are American by birth. YOU are not American, and you must go back home...with or without your children. the choice is yours to make.

No. You can't break up families. And don't call me a bleeding heart. It's common sense. Break up the family, what happens to the children with no positive role models? Last time I checked human children couldn't raise themselves. I have an idea, let's spend more money raising them in state run homes when their grandparents die and their uncles and cousins get deported or arrested. That's a great idea.

A better way would be to declare that just because you were born here, doesn't mean you are a citizen. At least one parent has to be. I'm leaning towards the father, but maybe not. Send the kids back too if you must, but don't separate families. It's 2007, not 1807.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:6. Start giving rewards for turning illegals in. $500 each is a fair ammount.

Check.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:Don't give us your tired, poor, huddled masses anymore! We as a country deserve the best immigrants-doctors, teachers, engineers, etc.

Guess we better tear down that statue then. It's all corroded anyway. Hell, it's from the French, we don't want that on our soil anymore do we? (Joke).

Autobot032 wrote:Problem is, when our families came over in the early 1900's, they actually worked.

Have you ever had a manual labor job with Mexicans? I worked at my home town lumber yard for 18 months straight, and I've worked in kitchens where I was the only one who spoke English, and they do not sit around wearing cowboy hats and drinking tequila.

Autobot032 wrote:People whine about Welfare being bogged down as it is, and how we can't help everyone. You're damn right we can't help everyone, we're supposed to be helping AMERICANS. Not someone who sneaks in and pretends to be American.

What does welfare have to do with this? I hope you weren't about to say that they'll just sit around on it, because that's not what I've seen out of their ethic.

Autobot032 wrote:Do I pity them and their horrific lives? You bet I do. I'd hope that no one should suffer like that. However, my family, your family, our friends shouldn't have to do without because someone's here illegally and they're taking our place in line.

How are you even affected? Don't say "they're takin' our jobs" like the rednecks in South Park, because I got a job at a lumber yard with illegals, doing the same work as them as well. Then, more white people got jobs after more Mexicans were hired. In fact, every low-end job I've had with the exception of a supermarket came with illegal Mexicans who were already there. Trust me, just because they were hired, doesn't mean they're legal. The fake ID industry flourishes. It's a nightmare.

Then in high school I see their kids getting A's. At the lumber yard I saw Mexican kids from school running their own contractor businesses. Hey look, their dads are criminals but they speak English and run their own businesses.

Autobot032 wrote:There's an order, a system, and we've all followed it as we were asked to. Why the hell should they get a free ride, a pat on the back, and show the rest of the world it's okay too?

Because that's exactly what our ancestors did. Do you think that every Irishman and Italian and Polack and Chinese came over here and was able to afford the process legally? Each and every one of them? Is it really that different today? Of course, I'm 100% purebred WASP, so my anscestors founded this country, but wait, what were the native tribes saying about them?

Autobot032 wrote:I'm 110 million percent against allowing those who got here illegally (and those who will) to get for free what everyone else has worked so hard for.

I got my citizenship for free. So did my parents. Hell, my father was born in New Zealand, and he got his citizenship for free because his father did. Did you come across on a boat when you were a kid and just happen to pull out the money needed for the legal process from your drab coat pocket?

Autobot032 wrote:I'm so sick and tired of hearing about equality, rights, race issues and all of that bullsh*t.

Riiiight. White males from northern Europe really are superior, because God decreed it. I keep forgetting that.

Autobot032 wrote:The minorities got what they wanted, and they still want more, more, more.

What are you even talking about? Black people got to go to normal schools and sit anywhere on the bus without going to jail. I can't recall that other march on Washington where they demanded free money for no work. And don't say welfare because that's a class problem and plenty of whites are on it too. Watch Jerry Springer to see who I mean.

Autobot032 wrote:So we don't want to have to pay for your relatives, friends and neighbors, and your 2.5 children who are all illegally here....AWW. TOO F*CKING BAD!

Who's paying? If they're legal, they pay taxes and support themselves. If they're illegal, we pay, hence why they should be made legal in the first place.

Autobot032 wrote:The more we allow people to come in here, the less help will go to those who REALLY deserve it.

My parents are handicapped, and they've been reviewed 7 times in the past decade to see if they're still handicapped enough to even deserve a medical assistance program, let alone anything else. My dad asked why he keeps getting reviewed, when they know it's impossible for him (he's in a f*ckin' wheelchair! For the rest of his life!) to leave disability and the woman said:

"Well, some unfortunate, poor soul will end up losing their disability this year. Fortunately, most of them aren't actually disabled and thus don't deserve it, so we revoke it...but a few of the honest ones have fallen through the cracks. We're bleeding money and it all has to come from somewhere, even if we have to cut corners. Sometimes those corners are people. We have too many people as it is, and with more and more illegals having children (which automatically makes the children US citizens), we just don't have enough to around for everyone."

I DON'T GIVE A FLYING F*CK! My dad worked his ass off to support his family, walking on legs crippled by Cerebral Palsy, and then those legs were crushed in a car wreck. He paid in, and he is DEFINITELY disabled. How dare a nation like ours take away from one of their own...one of their broken, and left by the wayside own.

And for what? To make sure some piece of **** who can't follow the rules gets his or her piece of the pie? NO! **** THAT AND **** YOU!

But doesn't it stand to reason that if honest people are falling through the cracks, that the guy in the wheelchair who physically can't walk would be one of the last to do so? Wouldn't it take a whole hell of a lot of honest people in the cracks before people paralysized or broken in wheelchairs fall through?

Did she say your father, even in a wheelchair, is a skating a fine line? I just don't see how he could be at risk, when people more able to support themselves would fall through first.

Yes there are degrees of handicap. My father has one leg, but he skis and bikes and gets along fine. He doesn't need insurance as much as your father, because he is more able, so therefore, if it came down to it, wouldn't they deny my father before they denied yours?

Sorry to sound so callous about it, but I'm just trying to (hopefully) illustrate that maybe your father is not in such a huge risky predicament with an onset of brand new citizens as it might seem.

It's wrong. It's rewarding illegal behavior. It a big f-you to all those who have spent years doing it the legal way, and it's the lazy-man's answer because they don't have the inclination to fight for what right anymore. I don't care what the bleeding hearts have to say, it's not right to be rewarded when you started your life here in the US illegally. In contrast, the Mexican laws for illegals is much more strict than ours, but they cry like bitches every time someone proposes stricter laws here in the US. And our elected officials cave because they don't want to be framed as a racist and do the right thing. It's not about race, but I have a huge problem with rewarding illegal behavior. I have a huge problem with people who put their own personal wealth above all else by hiring illegals, and I have a huge problem with asking permission from another country if we can secure our borders. The irony is is that Mexico can be a hub of huge economic commerse just by exploiting their own resources. They have oil and they have huge tracks of beach front property for tourism, but their own government is so corrupted that they would rather encourage their own people to abandon their own land to rape and pillage another.

Dark Zarak wrote:

YouFearGalvatron wrote:1. Build a wall. A big, "ginormous" wall, as jazz might say. Put Marines on it, 24/7.

A great idea, but who's going to build this wall? Mexicans are willing to do that kind of work for less pay. And they'll use fake ID's. I've seen it happen. It works like clockwork. And we can't hire all whites because we are all equal oppurtunity employers. If they don't figure out all kinds of little ways under, through, or whatever around this wall, I'll be very surprised. They're making it for hell's sake, and the foreman who hates his job sure would like the grease.

Don't even pretend it HAS t be illegals who build it. I am not that stupid.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:2. Make English MANDATORY. No two language BS. Just English.

Check. I have to agree with that. Hell, Mexicans I've worked with, illegal Mexicans, agree. The ones I've worked with anyway.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:3. Fine ANY employer caught hiring an illegal $25,000 PER violation, i.e., per illegal.

Check.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:4. Don't hand out drivers licenses like candy on halloween to illegals.

Do people actually do this? YES!!! Gray Davis was about to until Arnold beat him in the recall.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:5. Anyone found illegally will be deported within 24 hours, no questions asked. I don't care if you tried to circumvent the system by having 7 children here, who are American by birth. YOU are not American, and you must go back home...with or without your children. the choice is yours to make.

No. You can't break up families. And don't call me a bleeding heart. It's common sense. Break up the family, what happens to the children with no positive role models? Last time I checked human children couldn't raise themselves. I have an idea, let's spend more money raising them in state run homes when their grandparents die and their uncles and cousins get deported or arrested. That's a great idea.

A better way would be to declare that just because you were born here, doesn't mean you are a citizen. At least one parent has to be. I'm leaning towards the father, but maybe not. Send the kids back too if you must, but don't separate families. It's 2007, not 1807.

I can do whatever the f*** I want! I am Galvatron!

This is why I let the parents decide: the children are U.S. citizens by law, and this right cannot be revoked. I don't give a damn about the families. This world is way overpopulated as it is. A few less larva from a few families might actually be a good thing if you think about it.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:6. Start giving rewards for turning illegals in. $500 each is a fair ammount.

Check.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:Don't give us your tired, poor, huddled masses anymore! We as a country deserve the best immigrants-doctors, teachers, engineers, etc.

Guess we better tear down that statue then. It's all corroded anyway. Hell, it's from the French, we don't want that on our soil anymore do we? (Joke).

Autobot032 wrote:Problem is, when our families came over in the early 1900's, they actually worked.

Have you ever had a manual labor job with Mexicans? I worked at my home town lumber yard for 18 months straight, and I've worked in kitchens where I was the only one who spoke English, and they do not sit around wearing cowboy hats and drinking tequila.

YES. I HAVE. At 16, I worked constructing with illegals, and they are not as hardworking as you might be led to believe. Most of the time they sit around gossiping about women's asses, and let the gringo do most of thw work because he ranks lower than "La Raza".

Autobot032 wrote:People whine about Welfare being bogged down as it is, and how we can't help everyone. You're damn right we can't help everyone, we're supposed to be helping AMERICANS. Not someone who sneaks in and pretends to be American.

What does welfare have to do with this? I hope you weren't about to say that they'll just sit around on it, because that's not what I've seen out of their ethic.

You are funny as f***. Come to Texas and see the shambles our healthcare system is in because we can turn away the Gutierez family who have no insurance, and cannot pay, because it is against the law. Then take an ambulance ride to the hospital that costs $1,200, and asprins that cost nearly $11 each on the itemized bill then you can talk.

Autobot032 wrote:Do I pity them and their horrific lives? You bet I do. I'd hope that no one should suffer like that. However, my family, your family, our friends shouldn't have to do without because someone's here illegally and they're taking our place in line.

How are you even affected? Don't say "they're takin' our jobs" like the rednecks in South Park, because I got a job at a lumber yard with illegals, doing the same work as them as well. Then, more white people got jobs after more Mexicans were hired. In fact, every low-end job I've had with the exception of a supermarket came with illegal Mexicans who were already there. Trust me, just because they were hired, doesn't mean they're legal. The fake ID industry flourishes. It's a nightmare.

No s***. And Galvatron is purple. They don't take our jobs, they drive our LIVING WAGES DOWN so families with living standards cannot afford to take THAT LARGE of a paycut. Ever work for Wal-Mart??? I HAVE.

Then in high school I see their kids getting A's. At the lumber yard I saw Mexican kids from school running their own contractor businesses. Hey look, their dads are criminals but they speak English and run their own businesses.

Funny, in the HS I graduated from, many illegals wanted me to do their English homework for them, and even got f***ing Cs in f***ing SPANISH!

Oh yeah, having cheap slave labor helps with running a contracting business let me tell you. All to the lowest bidder...

Autobot032 wrote:There's an order, a system, and we've all followed it as we were asked to. Why the hell should they get a free ride, a pat on the back, and show the rest of the world it's okay too?

Because that's exactly what our ancestors did. Do you think that every Irishman and Italian and Polack and Chinese came over here and was able to afford the process legally? Each and every one of them? Is it really that different today? Of course, I'm 100% purebred WASP, so my anscestors founded this country, but wait, what were the native tribes saying about them?

This is 2007. This is chaos, and it MUST STOP NOW.

Autobot032 wrote:I'm 110 million percent against allowing those who got here illegally (and those who will) to get for free what everyone else has worked so hard for.

I got my citizenship for free. So did my parents. Hell, my father was born in New Zealand, and he got his citizenship for free because his father did. Did you come across on a boat when you were a kid and just happen to pull out the money needed for the legal process from your drab coat pocket?

Someone call the WHAAAAMMBULANCE for this guy please. There is a system. Follow it, or get out.

Autobot032 wrote:I'm so sick and tired of hearing about equality, rights, race issues and all of that bullsh*t.

Riiiight. White males from northern Europe really are superior, because God decreed it. I keep forgetting that.

I think what he is saying is that he is sick of hearing about this happy one world s*** people keep forcing on us, which the whole race issues thing is an integral part.

Autobot032 wrote:The minorities got what they wanted, and they still want more, more, more.

What are you even talking about? Black people got to go to normal schools and sit anywhere on the bus without going to jail. I can't recall that other march on Washington where they demanded free money for no work. And don't say welfare because that's a class problem and plenty of whites are on it too. Watch Jerry Springer to see who I mean.

Autobot is right. It is a human condition to want something for free, and more of it. He is telling the truth.

Autobot032 wrote:So we don't want to have to pay for your relatives, friends and neighbors, and your 2.5 children who are all illegally here....AWW. TOO F*CKING BAD!

Who's paying? If they're legal, they pay taxes and support themselves. If they're illegal, we pay, hence why they should be made legal in the first place.

That is like saying if i steal a car, if the dealer just gives it to me, I will start paying insurance! How f***ing stupid.

Autobot032 wrote:The more we allow people to come in here, the less help will go to those who REALLY deserve it.

My parents are handicapped, and they've been reviewed 7 times in the past decade to see if they're still handicapped enough to even deserve a medical assistance program, let alone anything else. My dad asked why he keeps getting reviewed, when they know it's impossible for him (he's in a f*ckin' wheelchair! For the rest of his life!) to leave disability and the woman said:

"Well, some unfortunate, poor soul will end up losing their disability this year. Fortunately, most of them aren't actually disabled and thus don't deserve it, so we revoke it...but a few of the honest ones have fallen through the cracks. We're bleeding money and it all has to come from somewhere, even if we have to cut corners. Sometimes those corners are people. We have too many people as it is, and with more and more illegals having children (which automatically makes the children US citizens), we just don't have enough to around for everyone."

I DON'T GIVE A FLYING F*CK! My dad worked his ass off to support his family, walking on legs crippled by Cerebral Palsy, and then those legs were crushed in a car wreck. He paid in, and he is DEFINITELY disabled. How dare a nation like ours take away from one of their own...one of their broken, and left by the wayside own.

And for what? To make sure some piece of **** who can't follow the rules gets his or her piece of the pie? NO! **** THAT AND **** YOU!

But doesn't it stand to reason that if honest people are falling through the cracks, that the guy in the wheelchair who physically can't walk would be one of the last to do so? Wouldn't it take a whole hell of a lot of honest people in the cracks before people paralysized or broken in wheelchairs fall through?

Did she say your father, even in a wheelchair, is a skating a fine line? I just don't see how he could be at risk, when people more able to support themselves would fall through first.

Yes there are degrees of handicap. My father has one leg, but he skis and bikes and gets along fine. He doesn't need insurance as much as your father, because he is more able, so therefore, if it came down to it, wouldn't they deny my father before they denied yours?

Sorry to sound so callous about it, but I'm just trying to (hopefully) illustrate that maybe your father is not in such a huge risky predicament with an onset of brand new citizens as it might seem.

I am not dissabled so this is grey for me, but our system is strained because of people who legally and illegally get a free ride for nothing.

I heard a lot of them only come over here to work, and then send the money back home to their families. I don't think these have any real desire to become citizens, and some of these probably use a work visa. My stepfather says that they are doing the work that few Americans want to do because its either backbreaking or doesn't pay enough. So the ones with work visas are not a problem to me unless they are criminals in their own country.
I don't think he agrees with the 'become a citizen overnight' thing, and I don't either. Even if you are doing work that no one else wants to do, If you are here illegally, then that is just wrong. That is rewarding bad behavior, and I think saying its like saying "We Americans are so interested in the mantra of 'political correctness,' that we will break or nullify our own immigration laws, overlook questionable behavior, allow people in who may or may not be criminals or terrorists in their own country, so we don't get branded the dreaded word 'racist' and then feel bad because we didn't kiss butt in the highest degree."

This is a bad idea. Let's be realistic, you've lived here for years illegaly, the chance of getting deported is small. So why would you opt to become legal and pay taxes or be responsible for paying your healthcare? It ain't gonna happen.

However, I'm all for it if they get rid of bilingual education.

Dark Zarak wrote:

YouFearGalvatron wrote:1. Build a wall. A big, "ginormous" wall, as jazz might say. Put Marines on it, 24/7.

A great idea, but who's going to build this wall? Mexicans are willing to do that kind of work for less pay. And they'll use fake ID's. I've seen it happen. It works like clockwork. And we can't hire all whites because we are all equal oppurtunity employers. If they don't figure out all kinds of little ways under, through, or whatever around this wall, I'll be very surprised. They're making it for hell's sake, and the foreman who hates his job sure would like the grease.

I know who's building this wall and if you believe fake ID's and day laborers are going to be involved, you're kidding yourself.

Let's put it this way. The analytics received from this "wall" will tell law enforcement how many people are attempting, which direction there heading, and how fast their moving.

GetterDragun wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:

YouFearGalvatron wrote:1. Build a wall. A big, "ginormous" wall, as jazz might say. Put Marines on it, 24/7.

A great idea, but who's going to build this wall? Mexicans are willing to do that kind of work for less pay. And they'll use fake ID's. I've seen it happen. It works like clockwork. And we can't hire all whites because we are all equal oppurtunity employers. If they don't figure out all kinds of little ways under, through, or whatever around this wall, I'll be very surprised. They're making it for hell's sake, and the foreman who hates his job sure would like the grease.

I know who's building this wall and if you believe fake ID's and day laborers are going to be involved, you're kidding yourself.

Let's put it this way. The analytics received from this "wall" will tell law enforcement how many people are attempting, which direction there heading, and how fast their moving.

Getter Dragon for President in 2008.

And then we pour gasoline into the Rio Grande and make it the "River of Fire."

YouFearGalvatron wrote:

Professor Smooth wrote:The alternative is rounding up and transporting 12 million people. Do you have any idea of how much finding, capturing, and forcefully transporting 12 million people would be? Yeah, it does kinda sting for those people who had family move to the US legally. But what can you do?

At best the American people should be saying, "yeah, these people got away with something, but there's really nothing we can do." By all means, better secure your borders from future illegal immigration, but there is not a whole lot to be done against the 12 million people already in the US.

Professor, as always, you add some flare to an already controversial issue.

You are correct, to a point.

No, we cannot round up 12,000+ people. The logistics alone would be a nightmare.

But here is what we can do, and WON'T:

1. Build a wall. A big, "ginormous" wall, as jazz might say. Put Marines on it, 24/7.

2. Make English MANDATORY. No two language BS. Just English.

3. Fine ANY employer caught hiring an illegal $25,000 PER violation, i.e., per illegal.

4. Don't hand out drivers licenses like candy on halloween to illegals.

5. Anyone found illegally will be deported within 24 hours, no questions asked. I don't care if you tried to circumvent the system by having 7 children here, who are American by birth. YOU are not American, and you must go back home...with or without your children. the choice is yours to make.

6. Start giving rewards for turning illegals in. $500 each is a fair ammount.

Problem solved.

If we can waste BILLIONS in Iraq year after year, then we can f***ing do this for even less money, and have some semblance of national security.

But it will never happen, because of the bleeding hearts and politcians affraid of losing the racist latino vote, even though they know it is against the law.

Don't give us your tired, poor, huddled masses anymore! We as a country deserve the best immigrants-doctors, teachers, engineers, etc.

But this will never be done b/c Washington has no b***s.

From the POV of a Australian who is aware of the situation: Ive seen reports of this issue on Fox News, CNN etc.
And I thought the immigrant problem in Australia was bad. Lucky Australia is the way it is geographyly speaking.

I agree with the English speaking point.If I went to another country I would make it a top priority to learn the language, but that's just me.

I have watched so many US shows and have seen the logo that says the show is also available in Spanish.

If you want to watch a show in another language here you watch it on dvd or watch SBS or put a satellite dish up on your roof and get shows from that. ( Aussie channel with shows/movies and news from all over the world).We don't bow and scape or would cater be a better word here to certain groups of folk here like the US does. Just my opinion.

I thought about this some more and I say legalize them! You know why, because since Border Patrol and Immigration is so inneffective at keeping them out, we need a new department to regulate them. Once they are legal they have to pay taxes, if they don't, they'll have to deal with the IRS, which is a lot more effective than immigration!

GetterDragun wrote:I thought about this some more and I say legalize them! You know why, because since Border Patrol and Immigration is so inneffective at keeping them out, we need a new department to regulate them. Once they are legal they have to pay taxes, if they don't, they'll have to deal with the IRS, which is a lot more effective than immigration!

I could be wrong, but IIRC they did try to legalize a lot of immigrants that were here illegally back in the 80's, & all it did was just encourage more illegal immigration. I mean, if all they're gonna do when illegals come over here is welcome them with open arms, whose to keep others from seeing that & following suit?

Perhaps, in a world where transportation is so quick and inexpensive, current notions of citizenship are outdated. Maybe we should just let people live where they want and stop making it so difficult for them just because they showed up after we did.

You know I wouldn't be for this bill if the current laws about immigration were not racist. It takes longer to get the ok to come to the U.S. as a citizen if you are from South America then it does if you are from Canada or Europe. Also the quotas for the number of South Americans allowed to come in are much lower.

As for the English argument I agree. They should learn English. However, the United States does not have any laws making English its national language. I think we need one.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:I can do whatever the f*** I want! I am Galvatron!

This is why I let the parents decide: the children are U.S. citizens by law, and this right cannot be revoked. I don't give a damn about the families. This world is way overpopulated as it is. A few less larva from a few families might actually be a good thing if you think about it.

It's not about population control, it's about hurting existing people. A few less larva would be a good thing, but a few more homeless kids growing up without good lives and eventually going to street life is not. Keep the families together, and you have less chances of that happening. Not zero chance, but less chance.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:At 16, I worked constructing with illegals, and they are not as hardworking as you might be led to believe. Most of the time they sit around gossiping about women's asses, and let the gringo do most of thw work because he ranks lower than "La Raza".

The ones I worked with are not at all like that. There's more to reality than what one person sees.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:You are funny as f***. Come to Texas and see the shambles our healthcare system is in because we can turn away the Gutierez family who have no insurance, and cannot pay, because it is against the law. Then take an ambulance ride to the hospital that costs $1,200, and asprins that cost nearly $11 each on the itemized bill then you can talk.

I am aware of those things, and I don't see how you're connecting it to my idea that they won't just sit around on welfare, but would, in fact, seek work because I have observed a good work ethic in them.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:They don't take our jobs, they drive our LIVING WAGES DOWN so families with living standards cannot afford to take THAT LARGE of a paycut. Ever work for Wal-Mart??? I HAVE.

I have never worked for Wal-Mart. I have also never experienced having my own wages lowered. When I was working with illegals hired under fake ID's, my paycheck went up as I was raised throughout my time there. You need to go into more detail about how the current problem of illegals is causing or caused your legal pay to lower.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:Funny, in the HS I graduated from, many illegals wanted me to do their English homework for them, and even got f***ing Cs in f***ing SPANISH!

Oh yeah, having cheap slave labor helps with running a contracting business let me tell you. All to the lowest bidder...

Again, I've never exprienced it. I heard about people getting low grades even in Spanish, but that's only the ones who are already too cool to care about any education, lost long before to the poopy street lives they end up living.

And are you saying he'd never suceed in his contracting business without hiring his illegal friends? I'm sure he hired them, but in my community there was no shortage of construction work, and no shortage of people willing to do it, legal and illegal.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:I think what he is saying is that he is sick of hearing about this happy one world s*** people keep forcing on us, which the whole race issues thing is an integral part.

And what's wrong with "one world?" It may be packaged like hippy bullshit, but it's right. I know it's hard, but try to see past the burkenstocks and flowers and acoustic guitars. Countries and borders are necessary to define ruling bodies in order to maintain peace, yes, but when they force people back out, instead of integrating them into their systems and thereby helping them, they become troublesome. One world is about accepting humanity for mutual benefit, not dividing it apart and thereby causing conflict.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:Autobot is right. It is a human condition to want something for free, and more of it. He is telling the truth.

No he's not. Saying minorities want more more more is either overreacting because you fear the change that other cultures could bring, or saying something moot and useless.

If it's human nature to want something free, then wouldn't the idea of more more more apply to everyone? If minorities want more more more, they can join the club.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:That is like saying if i steal a car, if the dealer just gives it to me, I will start paying insurance! How f***ing stupid.

That's not comparable. Citizenship shouldn't be a product. That's the heart of my whole stance.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:I am not dissabled so this is grey for me, but our system is strained because of people who legally and illegally get a free ride for nothing.

And that's the heart of your whole stance. And I say the system needs to change. Bring them into the system we have and it will have to adjust. It's done it before, it can do it again.

GetterDragun wrote:This is a bad idea. Let's be realistic, you've lived here for years illegaly, the chance of getting deported is small. So why would you opt to become legal and pay taxes or be responsible for paying your healthcare? It ain't gonna happen.

You think they'd choose having the migra on their tail all the time? It ain't gonna happen.

Hotrod wrote:You know I wouldn't be for this bill if the current laws about immigration were not racist. It takes longer to get the ok to come to the U.S. as a citizen if you are from South America then it does if you are from Canada or Europe. Also the quotas for the number of South Americans allowed to come in are much lower.

Thank you.

Herein lies the whole problem.

It's not rascist to oppose the idea of making them citizens, but it seems to me that it's mostly rascists who are opposed to it. And then what's this? Oh look, rascism in the system.

Let's say the system is like in the quote because it's trying to compensate for so many illegal Mexicans coming in. Well, that's not good enough because this is affecting the legal way in, and it's affecting more than Mexicans. Some guy from Brazil wants to come here and start a new life, but he can't because of a bunch of guys from a different country doing something totally different from what he's doing? Please.

Or let's say the system is like in the quote simply because of rascist people writing the laws. Equally as probable, and equally as unfair.

And thus we see the flaws in following systems for too long: they're created by fallable human beings, who can't let go of the past and the tired traditions based on it.

The same walls that keep people OUT of your country can also be used to keep people IN. Just a thought.