The Energon Pub

Hey everyone,well i was thinking(like usual)about existance and life,god etc.And ive come to the conclusion that i dont believe in any man concieved religion or belief.It really makes my head spin that there is scientific fact to disprove all of that.I still believe in god though,just what if god left us?Theres so many horrible things happening in the world i cant believe an all powerful omnipotent loving being would let it happen.It leaves me to wonder...WHAT IS THE MEANING OF OUR EXISTANCE?

I believe that the meaning of life it to simply live it to the best of our ability.

science cannot disprove any religion in it's entirety due to the indefinite nature of religion, or god.

such you can't actually assertain if god has left us or not. though if a omnipotent, omnibenevolent being does exist it begs the question of why their is suffereing at all?

as to what the meaning of life is from a strictly biological viewpoint it's to beget viable offspring

Well as humans we search for a greatere meaning in the chaos we call life,but nomatter how hard i search i cant find a thing,so maybe there is no meaning.Well my conclusion for now is that we will never know until we die.

In reality Tammuz if you can disprove part of a religion you disprove the whole. Such is the nature of religion, and one of the major reasons I walked away from christanity.

We exist to serve the grand poobah and his minion pandas.

Jar Axel wrote:In reality Tammuz if you can disprove part of a religion you disprove the whole. Such is the nature of religion, and one of the major reasons I walked away from christanity.

I'm not sure i agree with that, just becuase say Christ isn't the son of god, doesn't mean that god doesn not exist.

Tammuz wrote:

Jar Axel wrote:In reality Tammuz if you can disprove part of a religion you disprove the whole. Such is the nature of religion, and one of the major reasons I walked away from christanity.

I'm not sure i agree with that, just becuase say Christ isn't the son of god, doesn't mean that god doesn not exist.

prove that Christ wasn't the son of God.

Salazaar wrote:

Tammuz wrote:

Jar Axel wrote:In reality Tammuz if you can disprove part of a religion you disprove the whole. Such is the nature of religion, and one of the major reasons I walked away from christanity.

I'm not sure i agree with that, just becuase say Christ isn't the son of god, doesn't mean that god doesn not exist.

prove that Christ wasn't the son of God.

it's an example.

But still, God, Jesus, and all that Biblical stuff can neither be proven nor disproven.

Salazaar wrote:But still, God, Jesus, and all that Biblical stuff can neither be proven nor disproven.

er not entirely, usher's chronologoy has been proven false, as has the order of creation in genesis.

Tammuz wrote:

Salazaar wrote:But still, God, Jesus, and all that Biblical stuff can neither be proven nor disproven.

er not entirely, usher's chronologoy has been proven false, as has the order of creation in genesis.

The "fact that they are false" is merely a theory.

Salazaar wrote:

Tammuz wrote:

Salazaar wrote:But still, God, Jesus, and all that Biblical stuff can neither be proven nor disproven.

er not entirely, usher's chronologoy has been proven false, as has the order of creation in genesis.

The "fact that they are false" is merely a theory.

er no, the word being 4.6 billion years old is more than a theory, it is a scientific theory.

Salazaar wrote:But still, God, Jesus, and all that Biblical stuff can neither be proven nor disproven.

Same with Evolution.

I'm agreeing with you here, so bear with me.

Shadowman wrote:

Salazaar wrote:But still, God, Jesus, and all that Biblical stuff can neither be proven nor disproven.

Same with Evolution.

I'm agreeing with you here, so bear with me.

Shadowman Evolution is a proven phenomenon, much like gravity.

SuperiumPrime wrote:Theres so many horrible things happening in the world i cant believe an all powerful omnipotent loving being would let it happen.

First off, things aren't as bad as they could be.

Secondly, what you're saying is, if there is some benevolent force out there that created us.

You believe he would coddle us and make all the bad things go away for us.

Instead of showing us that people can do such terrible things, and from this, the good things that people do, mean a hell of a lot more than in some world where everything is all nice and cuddly.

Hell no. You can't have good without evil. It's a balance, just like you can't have life without death.

Senor Hugo wrote:

SuperiumPrime wrote:Theres so many horrible things happening in the world i cant believe an all powerful omnipotent loving being would let it happen.

First off, things aren't as bad as they could be.

Secondly, what you're saying is, if there is some benevolent force out there that created us.

You believe he would coddle us and make all the bad things go away for us.

Instead of showing us that people can do such terrible things, and from this, the good things that people do, mean a hell of a lot more than in some world where everything is all nice and cuddly.

Hell no. You can't have good without evil. It's a balance, just like you can't have life without death.

surely if he's omnipotent, he would be able to create the exact same result without the terrible things; he would be able to create good without evil, no?

People who ask what the meaning of life is seem to seldom consider that they instead should ask themselves what they want the meaning of life to be.

There, to the best of our actual knowledge, does not appear to be a greater metaphysical point to us lot being here. While this might make it seem like life is useless I would say that it's a positive thing that existance is pointless*.

It is, after all, difficult to fail if there is no goal. When you have established that there isn't anything you are supposed to do you are left with what you want to do. Of course, some things still need to be done in order for you to achieve your personal goals, but that's the way it is. If you want to gain something, you have to give something.


*I use the word in its literal meaning, not as an indication of value.

Tammuz wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:

SuperiumPrime wrote:Theres so many horrible things happening in the world i cant believe an all powerful omnipotent loving being would let it happen.

First off, things aren't as bad as they could be.

Secondly, what you're saying is, if there is some benevolent force out there that created us.

You believe he would coddle us and make all the bad things go away for us.

Instead of showing us that people can do such terrible things, and from this, the good things that people do, mean a hell of a lot more than in some world where everything is all nice and cuddly.

Hell no. You can't have good without evil. It's a balance, just like you can't have life without death.

surely if he's omnipotent, he would be able to create the exact same result without the terrible things; he would be able to create good without evil, no?

True, but then, wouldn't that take away from what makes us human? If we're all good, if we all live in this good world. It would take away from individualism.

Now, I'm purely speculating at this point.

God or whatever you call him is perfect. That would mean he doesn't change at all.(Something that I personally don't agree with, but anyway)

Now, if we were made in his image, lets say he wants us to be the best we can be, he wants us to become as benevolent as he is. If he just gave it to us, just slapped the silver spoon in our mouths.

How would we end up? I'm willing to bet spoiled, with no real regard for what is truly a good deed.

If he simulated the results without the whole terrible deed thing. Well, we're smart. Sooner or later the hamster realizes if you press the right button, you get a treat.

However, if you put the possibility for evil in there. Then what happens? You're unsure. So, with that possibility of evil in each human being, if one person does flip out and end up killing a ton of people. Thats terrible, people wonder how someone could do such a thing.

They see that humans have this possibility to do evil, but then it makes them respect the good even more-so.

I have no clue if that makes sense or not.

Tammuz wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Salazaar wrote:But still, God, Jesus, and all that Biblical stuff can neither be proven nor disproven.

Same with Evolution.

I'm agreeing with you here, so bear with me.

Shadowman Evolution is a proven phenomenon, much like gravity.

BUT TEH BIBLE SAYS GOD CREATED MAN LOL

[/joke]

Senor Hugo wrote:

Tammuz wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:

SuperiumPrime wrote:Theres so many horrible things happening in the world i cant believe an all powerful omnipotent loving being would let it happen.

First off, things aren't as bad as they could be.

Secondly, what you're saying is, if there is some benevolent force out there that created us.

You believe he would coddle us and make all the bad things go away for us.

Instead of showing us that people can do such terrible things, and from this, the good things that people do, mean a hell of a lot more than in some world where everything is all nice and cuddly.

Hell no. You can't have good without evil. It's a balance, just like you can't have life without death.

surely if he's omnipotent, he would be able to create the exact same result without the terrible things; he would be able to create good without evil, no?

True, but then, wouldn't that take away from what makes us human? If we're all good, if we all live in this good world. It would take away from individualism.

But if he was truely omnipotent he would be able to come to any result without conditions, without requiring anything, without suffering consequences.

in short it wouldn't take away from our individualism, unless God wanted it too.

Senor Hugo wrote:Now, I'm purely speculating at this point.

God or whatever you call him is perfect. That would mean he doesn't change at all.(Something that I personally don't agree with, but anyway)

where does it say perfection isn't dynamic and ever changing

Senor Hugo wrote:Now, if we were made in his image, lets say he wants us to be the best we can be, he wants us to become as benevolent as he is. If he just gave it to us, just slapped the silver spoon in our mouths.

How would we end up? I'm willing to bet spoiled, with no real regard for what is truly a good deed.

you're still thinking that god is limited by cuase an effect, this is untrue if he's omnipotent

Senor Hugo wrote:If he simulated the results without the whole terrible deed thing. Well, we're smart. Sooner or later the hamster realizes if you press the right button, you get a treat.

However, if you put the possibility for evil in there. Then what happens? You're unsure. So, with that possibility of evil in each human being, if one person does flip out and end up killing a ton of people. Thats terrible, people wonder how someone could do such a thing.

They see that humans have this possibility to do evil, but then it makes them respect the good even more-so.

I have no clue if that makes sense or not.

I totally understand your argument, i just don't think you've truely grasped mine

if god is omnipotent he can grant any positive result of the existence of evil, without evil actually existing.

Shadowman wrote:

Tammuz wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Salazaar wrote:But still, God, Jesus, and all that Biblical stuff can neither be proven nor disproven.

Same with Evolution.

I'm agreeing with you here, so bear with me.

Shadowman Evolution is a proven phenomenon, much like gravity.

BUT TEH BIBLE SAYS GOD CREATED MAN LOL

[/joke]

evolution doesn't say he didn't, it just tells us how man was created

SuperiumPrime wrote:Hey everyone,well i was thinking(like usual)about existance and life,god etc.And ive come to the conclusion that i dont believe in any man concieved religion or belief.It really makes my head spin that there is scientific fact to disprove all of that.I still believe in god though,just what if god left us?Theres so many horrible things happening in the world i cant believe an all powerful omnipotent loving being would let it happen.It leaves me to wonder...WHAT IS THE MEANING OF OUR EXISTANCE?:???:

I'm not going to tell you what to believe, or who to believe in. I will tell you this:

Our purpose and the meaning of our existence is this:

To live and love.

Life is a gift, whether or not you believe it was given to you by God, or some other Deity you might believe in, but it *IS* a gift, we're not entitled to it. So take that gift and do with it what you were supposed to do...live life to the fullest, and at least try and enjoy it.*

Some will say "Yeah, some gift. What about all those who suffer?", well I don't have that answer, and I can freely admit that. I can't speak for others, or God himself, that's between you and him.


Love is also a gift and we're supposed to share it with family, friends, etc. If you give it, it will be returned. Wouldn't that be better than fighting, hating, and being bitter all the time?

To live and love, that's our purpose and meaning of life.
It says in the Bible that God *IS* love, so I'd consider it a gift.*

Yes, before anyone says it, I know, I know...not everyone loves, and we don't always believe a person is deserving of anyone's love (and I won't tell you how to think or what to think. I'm even guilty of hating, so I have no room to talk.) I know I come across as a pompous, pious, holier than thou egotist sometimes, and I apologize for that. I don't intend to, and if anyone's offended by that, I really, really don't mean to. Sorry.

People complain about God, and his omnipotence, etc...well we're supposed to look at him as the ultimate parent. And there's a movie quote from "Batman Begins" that fits in here: "Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves up." which goes hand in hand with the old adage "God helps those who help themselves". Think about this, do your parents do everything for you? Of course not. They too let you learn on your own, including falling flat on your face. If you don't learn from it, you're doomed to repeat it. God does help and assist us, just as our parents do. Sometimes we're so self absorbed that we don't even pay attention to the gifts given to us. So all we do is complain and never take responsibility for our own screw ups. It's always easier to pass the buck.*

*= Directed to SuperiumPrime, not anyone else. Though I'm sure someone will find a way to come in and nitpick and tell me I'm wrong 'til I could puke coathangers. To be honest, I'm thoroughly sick of it by now. (Could we give it a rest for once? I just don't have it in me to fight or debate today...)

Autobot032 wrote:

SuperiumPrime wrote:Hey everyone,well i was thinking(like usual)about existance and life,god etc.And ive come to the conclusion that i dont believe in any man concieved religion or belief.It really makes my head spin that there is scientific fact to disprove all of that.I still believe in god though,just what if god left us?Theres so many horrible things happening in the world i cant believe an all powerful omnipotent loving being would let it happen.It leaves me to wonder...WHAT IS THE MEANING OF OUR EXISTANCE?:???:

I'm not going to tell you what to believe, or who to believe in. I will tell you this:

Our purpose and the meaning of our existence is this:

To live and love.

Life is a gift, whether or not you believe it was given to you by God, or some other Deity you might believe in, but it *IS* a gift, we're not entitled to it. So take that gift and do with it what you were supposed to do...live life to the fullest, and at least try and enjoy it.*

Some will say "Yeah, some gift. What about all those who suffer?", well I don't have that answer, and I can freely admit that. I can't speak for others, or God himself, that's between you and him.


Love is also a gift and we're supposed to share it with family, friends, etc. If you give it, it will be returned. Wouldn't that be better than fighting, hating, and being bitter all the time?

To live and love, that's our purpose and meaning of life.
It says in the Bible that God *IS* love, so I'd consider it a gift.*

Yes, before anyone says it, I know, I know...not everyone loves, and we don't always believe a person is deserving of anyone's love (and I won't tell you how to think or what to think. I'm even guilty of hating, so I have no room to talk.) I know I come across as a pompous, pious, holier than thou egotist sometimes, and I apologize for that. I don't intend to, and if anyone's offended by that, I really, really don't mean to. Sorry.

People complain about God, and his omnipotence, etc...well we're supposed to look at him as the ultimate parent. And there's a movie quote from "Batman Begins" that fits in here: "Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves up." which goes hand in hand with the old adage "God helps those who help themselves". Think about this, do your parents do everything for you? Of course not. They too let you learn on your own, including falling flat on your face. If you don't learn from it, you're doomed to repeat it. God does help and assist us, just as our parents do. Sometimes we're so self absorbed that we don't even pay attention to the gifts given to us. So all we do is complain and never take responsibility for our own screw ups. It's always easier to pass the buck.*

*= Directed to SuperiumPrime, not anyone else. Though I'm sure someone will find a way to come in and nitpick and tell me I'm wrong 'til I could puke coathangers. To be honest, I'm thoroughly sick of it by now. (Could we give it a rest for once? I just don't have it in me to fight or debate today...)

Thank you.

Tammuz wrote:

Jar Axel wrote:In reality Tammuz if you can disprove part of a religion you disprove the whole. Such is the nature of religion, and one of the major reasons I walked away from christanity.

I'm not sure i agree with that, just becuase say Christ isn't the son of god, doesn't mean that god doesn not exist.

A but you see if you can proove even a part of a religion false you proove the whole false as religion relies on faith in the whole. Thus being able to prove that eg: Jesus was not the son of God disproves that god not the concept of god as a whole.