The Energon Pub

Agamemnon wrote:You do realize, X, that WfC and FoC function well as pre-earth Cybertronian modes for many of us, right X?

This is relevant because it doesn't just pigeonhole me into being a WfC/FoC purist, which is what you seem to be implying...

I agree with you 100%. Thats what I use them for. I mix them with Botcon figures of Cybertron dwelling characters.

Dead Metal wrote:Why are we complaining about FOC Swoop being in scale with the figures he's intended to compliment?

You want a Classics Swoop that's larger? Go get the Classics Swoop that other company is making.

You mean the one that's MP scale and looks kind of simple ? For that I will just go with the Fans Toys Dinobots. Ill probally get their Slag if it goes on sale. MP Dinobots are actually classics scale if you go by G1 seasons 1-2. But in season 3 they kind of shrunk a bit.

Banjo-Tron wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Why are we complaining about FOC Swoop being in scale with the figures he's intended to compliment?

You want a Classics Swoop that's larger? Go get the Classics Swoop that other company is making.

What other swoop? Linky please

Because you said please...

viewtopic.php?f=215&t=97053&p=1523940&hilit=swoop#p1523940

Rated X wrote:

xyl360 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

megatronus wrote:I personally don't think your comments are BS. You often force me to think about how I came to an opinion, which is extremely valuable. Yeah, you tend to get kicked around more than most, but you are definitely an appreciated presence.

But, it feels like you miss the point sometimes - this feeling is compounded when you fail to acknowledge the validity of others' views.

If they were going to "fix" WFC/FOC designs, then they would probably have just done a separate, Classics Swoop. But they're not doing that; they're giving us a WFC/FOC Swoop. Sure, we've developed this concept called Classics or neo or whatever that allows us to accept liberal interpretations of character designs, but that doesn't work for everything. Especially when it seems logical for fans of the video game to want a video game accurate figure. Call me crazy. Plus, Planet X already knows this is a money maker; Genesis did fantastically well, and that was a $360 toy!

As to the WFC/FOC designs themselves, you're free to think they're crap, but I like them a lot. I think a lot of your criticism (outside of size issues) comes from Hasbro's poor toy execution of the designs. High Moon did a great job on the designs themselves, I think, which really comes through in the games.

Also Sludge was killed as part of the FOC backstory, which is why he doesn't have a playable character model.

I appreciate that.

It's no secret I’m not a big FOC fan. I will argue to the end of time that Vortex's puke color was an error. They probably sent Activision a picture of Energon Stormcloud by mistake and they rolled with it. But that’s just my opinion. I guess I’m a little harsh on Planet X because fans have been calling for 3rd party Dinobots way before WFC/FOC ever existed. And when we finally get some, the company wants to do something so niche. It’s kind of a slap in the face to those who have been collecting classics figures for years and want to complete the G1 lineup. (Just my personal opinion as well) I’m sure we’ll see Planet X Shrapnel and Bombshell in the future. I might actually buy those because the Insecticons actually did come from Cybertron. I kind of see WFC/FOC the same way I see Hearts of Steel. It’s a niche continuity that will never get a full line of toys. MMC had plans for HOS Insecticons and I think Megatron too. But they eventually moved on when they realized classics was where the money is at. My guess Planet X will do the same. We will all see how well WFC/FOC sells once the Swoop figure comes out. It might be a hit or it might flop. Then we shall see how many “hardcore” WFC/FOC fans there really are. Genesis is still in stock at BBTS because everyone who wanted one already has one. But the high price might also be a factor that it isn’t selling like it first did. Or of course it could be the Monkey Arms, lol. That’s the only reason I went with YOTS Omega. Only time will tell how Planet X will fare in today’s 3rd party market. More and more companies keep popping up out of the woodwork.

See, I think your logic is flawed there. Classics/Generations etc. obviously is "neo" or whatever, but WfC/FoC is its own continuity/style so a company doing "neo" (Classics/figures designed to fit in with Classics) can do that all they want, but a company attempting to do screen accurate versions of WfC/FoC should stick to the source material and attempt to make them as accurate as possible.

If you want truly "G1" then go for MP. Then you won't have to worry about the whole "neo" thing, the "video game" thing, the "movie" thing or any other "thing" you don't like. But you won't do that because they take up too much space on your shelf apparently. Sure, there are plenty of collectors still holding on to hopes of someday completing their "G1" Classics collections, but the reality is that at least for now, Has/Tak are working from the IDW comics more than they are the G1 cartoons and fiction for their Generations line and they're putting all of their "G1" efforts into the MP line. The third party "Classics" scene will dry up before long I think, as soon as more collectors finally reconcile the idea that to get the "ultimate" G1 lineup on their shelves, MP is the way to go, not Classics/Generations.

As for me, just as long as Planet X keeps doing the game accurate figures of characters that Has/Tak won't do from WfC and FoC, I'll keep on buying them and I'm not alone. I think Planet X's business model is very smart. They found a niche market of collectors that no one else is catering to and they're running with it. If they compromised that to try and cater to the "Classics" crowd as well (the crowd that pretty much every other third party is fighting over, hence the 2 Devastators, 3 Predakings, 2 sets of Headmasters etc.) then they'd be competing with every other third party out there plus Has/Tak. That doesn't seem like smart business to me. If FP, MMC, Maketoys, TFC and all these other third parties keep trying to fill the same gaps (the "Classics" gaps) then eventually some of them will go out of business unless they start doing what companies like Planet X here are doing, namely catering to a part of the collector market that no one else is.

On MP stuff, I’ve never been a fan of big figures. Their height kind of gives me the “Barbie doll” creeps. I did buy MP Grimlock because he scales with classics nicely. I bought MP Soundwave just for the cassettes and have yet to transform him once in over two months lol. I have a military formation of MP Seekers on my coffee table because they make a great conversation piece. But that’s where my love for MP figures ends. But the 3rd parties are bringing “neo” to the MP scale. MMC Hexatron is my primary example. He is truly MP scale by the G1 cartoon standards. And if you look at Warbotron’s individual robot modes, notice Vortex has his helicopter cockpit on his chest similar to the FP/Energon mold. Onslaught also has his cab windows on his chest giving him a very Prime like appearance. So “neo” is invading the MP scale universe, unless of course you only buy Has/Tak MP figures and live with their gaps all over again. And I just cant see obscure characters ever getting a MP figure from anyone. MP Dion ? MP Alicon ? How about MP Counterpunch ? I don’t see it happening with MP scale. And if it ever did, would they make an MP Metroplex the size of a human so they can have a base that’s “in scale” ? The MP scale is much more suited for buying your favorite characters than trying to assemble a cast of any G1 season in my honest opinion.

The MP line is still going and just started anew with MP-10. Give it time, you might be surprised at what Has/Tak does with it and just how many characters they do the right way from the start (Ultra Magnus, for example).

Rated X wrote:Maybe some hardcore WFC/FOC collectors will put him next to their totally screen accurate FOC Air Raid. That is unless theyre too busy trying to decide which Prime they want to be the leader (WFC or FOC) to ensure total screen accuracy without leaving a gap. FOC Wreckers anyone ? I’m just playing, but you get my point right ?

No, I really don’t. I keep both versions of Prime on my shelf for the same reason a G1 collector would keep both Hot Rod and Rodimus Prime. They’re 2 versions of the same character. He changed form after the first game, presumably because he acquired the Matrix. In fact, I’m still hoping Planet X or someone else does an FoC version of Megatron because he too changed form in that game. As for Air Raid, I have both versions of him but neither represents Air Raid from the game because it’s way to inaccurate. I think of them as generic Autobots.

Rated X wrote:When MMC came out, everybody thought that they were strictly HOS. Then all of a sudden the switched to classics and I bet they have no regrets. As I said before, Im fairly confident Planet X will do the same. I heard they were going to do a Trypticon. Im pretty sure they might try to fill the insecticon gaps. But all these things take years if they happen after all the Dinobots are finished. And in years will WFC/FOC still be relevant ? Or will Hasbro have a new game and bless us with yet another Prime, Megatron, Bumblebee, and trio of Seekers ?

As long as Planet X keeps doing WfC/FoC, I will continue buying the figures they put out for the same reason that people like you haven’t abandoned “G1” (the cartoon) as your continuity/look of choice after 30 years even though countless shows/continuities have since come and gone to replace it/reboot it. After all, you weren’t content to switch gears and start collecting Beast Wars to replace G1 Megatron with a purple dinosaur and your red truck Prime with a gorilla named Primal, were you? Why should it be any different for me and any other WfC/FoC collector?

Rated X wrote:On IDW molds, with the exception of Bumblebee and Megatron, all the other figures are reminiscent of their G1 incarnations and work fairly well on a classics shelf for most (Blurr, Drift, Orion Pax, Trailcutter, Hoist, Springer, Toyworld Orion, etc)

For you, perhaps, but not for everyone. And on that note, if Has/Tak is doing such a great job these days, why do you need yet another third party (Planet X) to start doing Classics as well? Don’t you think that Has/Tak or another third party (or both) will get to the Dinobots eventually? They’re some of the most popular characters, are they not? I don’t think Planet X has any good reason to start doing Classics. Like I said before, everyone else is doing that. They have the opportunity to continue creating niche figures that people like me want and it’s obviously working for them otherwise they wouldn’t keep doing so. Creating a $350 figure that specifically resembles a character from the WfC game was a huge gamble, but it obviously paid off because here they are with yet another faithful representation of a character from the video games. So I’m guessing that the one thing they will not do at this point is follow the crowds and start creating “Classics” figures. If they do Trypticon, I’ll buy it for certain. If they do Metroplex, I’ll buy him too. In fact, any WfC/FoC figure that they create that’s either one Has/Tak hasn’t yet done or that Has/Tak hasn’t done well, I’ll buy it because I do have a WfC/FoC shelf just like I have an MP shelf and I’ll spend as much as I need to in order to fill it out, just like collectors like yourself will for their Classics collections.

xyl360 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

xyl360 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

megatronus wrote:I personally don't think your comments are BS. You often force me to think about how I came to an opinion, which is extremely valuable. Yeah, you tend to get kicked around more than most, but you are definitely an appreciated presence.

But, it feels like you miss the point sometimes - this feeling is compounded when you fail to acknowledge the validity of others' views.

If they were going to "fix" WFC/FOC designs, then they would probably have just done a separate, Classics Swoop. But they're not doing that; they're giving us a WFC/FOC Swoop. Sure, we've developed this concept called Classics or neo or whatever that allows us to accept liberal interpretations of character designs, but that doesn't work for everything. Especially when it seems logical for fans of the video game to want a video game accurate figure. Call me crazy. Plus, Planet X already knows this is a money maker; Genesis did fantastically well, and that was a $360 toy!

As to the WFC/FOC designs themselves, you're free to think they're crap, but I like them a lot. I think a lot of your criticism (outside of size issues) comes from Hasbro's poor toy execution of the designs. High Moon did a great job on the designs themselves, I think, which really comes through in the games.

Also Sludge was killed as part of the FOC backstory, which is why he doesn't have a playable character model.

I appreciate that.

It's no secret I’m not a big FOC fan. I will argue to the end of time that Vortex's puke color was an error. They probably sent Activision a picture of Energon Stormcloud by mistake and they rolled with it. But that’s just my opinion. I guess I’m a little harsh on Planet X because fans have been calling for 3rd party Dinobots way before WFC/FOC ever existed. And when we finally get some, the company wants to do something so niche. It’s kind of a slap in the face to those who have been collecting classics figures for years and want to complete the G1 lineup. (Just my personal opinion as well) I’m sure we’ll see Planet X Shrapnel and Bombshell in the future. I might actually buy those because the Insecticons actually did come from Cybertron. I kind of see WFC/FOC the same way I see Hearts of Steel. It’s a niche continuity that will never get a full line of toys. MMC had plans for HOS Insecticons and I think Megatron too. But they eventually moved on when they realized classics was where the money is at. My guess Planet X will do the same. We will all see how well WFC/FOC sells once the Swoop figure comes out. It might be a hit or it might flop. Then we shall see how many “hardcore” WFC/FOC fans there really are. Genesis is still in stock at BBTS because everyone who wanted one already has one. But the high price might also be a factor that it isn’t selling like it first did. Or of course it could be the Monkey Arms, lol. That’s the only reason I went with YOTS Omega. Only time will tell how Planet X will fare in today’s 3rd party market. More and more companies keep popping up out of the woodwork.

See, I think your logic is flawed there. Classics/Generations etc. obviously is "neo" or whatever, but WfC/FoC is its own continuity/style so a company doing "neo" (Classics/figures designed to fit in with Classics) can do that all they want, but a company attempting to do screen accurate versions of WfC/FoC should stick to the source material and attempt to make them as accurate as possible.

If you want truly "G1" then go for MP. Then you won't have to worry about the whole "neo" thing, the "video game" thing, the "movie" thing or any other "thing" you don't like. But you won't do that because they take up too much space on your shelf apparently. Sure, there are plenty of collectors still holding on to hopes of someday completing their "G1" Classics collections, but the reality is that at least for now, Has/Tak are working from the IDW comics more than they are the G1 cartoons and fiction for their Generations line and they're putting all of their "G1" efforts into the MP line. The third party "Classics" scene will dry up before long I think, as soon as more collectors finally reconcile the idea that to get the "ultimate" G1 lineup on their shelves, MP is the way to go, not Classics/Generations.

As for me, just as long as Planet X keeps doing the game accurate figures of characters that Has/Tak won't do from WfC and FoC, I'll keep on buying them and I'm not alone. I think Planet X's business model is very smart. They found a niche market of collectors that no one else is catering to and they're running with it. If they compromised that to try and cater to the "Classics" crowd as well (the crowd that pretty much every other third party is fighting over, hence the 2 Devastators, 3 Predakings, 2 sets of Headmasters etc.) then they'd be competing with every other third party out there plus Has/Tak. That doesn't seem like smart business to me. If FP, MMC, Maketoys, TFC and all these other third parties keep trying to fill the same gaps (the "Classics" gaps) then eventually some of them will go out of business unless they start doing what companies like Planet X here are doing, namely catering to a part of the collector market that no one else is.

On MP stuff, I’ve never been a fan of big figures. Their height kind of gives me the “Barbie doll” creeps. I did buy MP Grimlock because he scales with classics nicely. I bought MP Soundwave just for the cassettes and have yet to transform him once in over two months lol. I have a military formation of MP Seekers on my coffee table because they make a great conversation piece. But that’s where my love for MP figures ends. But the 3rd parties are bringing “neo” to the MP scale. MMC Hexatron is my primary example. He is truly MP scale by the G1 cartoon standards. And if you look at Warbotron’s individual robot modes, notice Vortex has his helicopter cockpit on his chest similar to the FP/Energon mold. Onslaught also has his cab windows on his chest giving him a very Prime like appearance. So “neo” is invading the MP scale universe, unless of course you only buy Has/Tak MP figures and live with their gaps all over again. And I just cant see obscure characters ever getting a MP figure from anyone. MP Dion ? MP Alicon ? How about MP Counterpunch ? I don’t see it happening with MP scale. And if it ever did, would they make an MP Metroplex the size of a human so they can have a base that’s “in scale” ? The MP scale is much more suited for buying your favorite characters than trying to assemble a cast of any G1 season in my honest opinion.

The MP line is still going and just started anew with MP-10. Give it time, you might be surprised at what Has/Tak does with it and just how many characters they do the right way from the start (Ultra Magnus, for example).

Rated X wrote:Maybe some hardcore WFC/FOC collectors will put him next to their totally screen accurate FOC Air Raid. That is unless theyre too busy trying to decide which Prime they want to be the leader (WFC or FOC) to ensure total screen accuracy without leaving a gap. FOC Wreckers anyone ? I’m just playing, but you get my point right ?

No, I really don’t. I keep both versions of Prime on my shelf for the same reason a G1 collector would keep both Hot Rod and Rodimus Prime. They’re 2 versions of the same character. He changed form after the first game, presumably because he acquired the Matrix. In fact, I’m still hoping Planet X or someone else does an FoC version of Megatron because he too changed form in that game. As for Air Raid, I have both versions of him but neither represents Air Raid from the game because it’s way to inaccurate. I think of them as generic Autobots.

Rated X wrote:When MMC came out, everybody thought that they were strictly HOS. Then all of a sudden the switched to classics and I bet they have no regrets. As I said before, Im fairly confident Planet X will do the same. I heard they were going to do a Trypticon. Im pretty sure they might try to fill the insecticon gaps. But all these things take years if they happen after all the Dinobots are finished. And in years will WFC/FOC still be relevant ? Or will Hasbro have a new game and bless us with yet another Prime, Megatron, Bumblebee, and trio of Seekers ?

As long as Planet X keeps doing WfC/FoC, I will continue buying the figures they put out for the same reason that people like you haven’t abandoned “G1” (the cartoon) as your continuity/look of choice after 30 years even though countless shows/continuities have since come and gone to replace it/reboot it. After all, you weren’t content to switch gears and start collecting Beast Wars to replace G1 Megatron with a purple dinosaur and your red truck Prime with a gorilla named Primal, were you? Why should it be any different for me and any other WfC/FoC collector?

Rated X wrote:On IDW molds, with the exception of Bumblebee and Megatron, all the other figures are reminiscent of their G1 incarnations and work fairly well on a classics shelf for most (Blurr, Drift, Orion Pax, Trailcutter, Hoist, Springer, Toyworld Orion, etc)

For you, perhaps, but not for everyone. And on that note, if Has/Tak is doing such a great job these days, why do you need yet another third party (Planet X) to start doing Classics as well? Don’t you think that Has/Tak or another third party (or both) will get to the Dinobots eventually? They’re some of the most popular characters, are they not? I don’t think Planet X has any good reason to start doing Classics. Like I said before, everyone else is doing that. They have the opportunity to continue creating niche figures that people like me want and it’s obviously working for them otherwise they wouldn’t keep doing so. Creating a $350 figure that specifically resembles a character from the WfC game was a huge gamble, but it obviously paid off because here they are with yet another faithful representation of a character from the video games. So I’m guessing that the one thing they will not do at this point is follow the crowds and start creating “Classics” figures. If they do Trypticon, I’ll buy it for certain. If they do Metroplex, I’ll buy him too. In fact, any WfC/FoC figure that they create that’s either one Has/Tak hasn’t yet done or that Has/Tak hasn’t done well, I’ll buy it because I do have a WfC/FoC shelf just like I have an MP shelf and I’ll spend as much as I need to in order to fill it out, just like collectors like yourself will for their Classics collections.

I’m sure Has/Tak will go far with the MP line. But I just feel the size and price will hinder them from ever becoming the new “classics” line. Not to mention the bigger characters that are supposed to dwarf MP-10 by G1 cartoon standards. Has/Tak seems to really be focused on cartoon scale accuracy since MP-10. But how big are they willing to go to keep it accurate ? I don’t expect Has/Tak to do any MP combiners. There’s always the guys who are making Warbotron, but as I stated before they’re going the “neo” route which doesn’t really fit in with the Has/Tak MP line.

I know nothing about the game fiction. But if we go by scale, your Hot Rod/Rodimus example is not such a good one. Yes I keep both Hot Rod and Rodimus on my classics shelf. I assume you do to. But I’m also assuming your “Rodimus” dons FP Protector armor and towers over Hot Rod. On the other hand FOC Optimus does not tower over WFC Optimus but instead it’s the opposite. So did Optimus get smaller when he acquired the Matrix ? C’mon, admit that’s kinda weak. WFC Optimus is the larger and superior figure. The FOC mold makes a better Ultra Magnus than it does Prime. Fiction or not, the real reason you got 2 different video game Primes is because Prime sells. Optimus seems to get a new body for every Michael Bay film. Hasbro just wants to sell more Primes because kids love him. Expect to get 2 more Bayformer Primes for the 5th and 6th installments of the trilogy. And if they ever do a 3rd game, “Rise of Cybertron” perhaps, expect Prime to have a new body so Hasbro can sell you another toy. I’m actually shocked they didn’t do a new Bumblebee just for FOC.

So I’m just curious how you feel about MMC abandoning HOS for classics ? I think they made a smart business decision and it’s paying off. Theres still enough characters left in the G1 pot that have never been touched. Especially if they start digging into the Japanese cartoons. What make you so sure Planet X wont surprise everyone with some Seacons in a year or so ? Maybe Monstructor or Lio Kaiser ? Im not saying it’s gonna be those characters, but Im willing to bet Planet X is going to make the switch to G1 classics…the line that never dies. WFC/FOC will join Animated and TF Prime in Hasbro’s vault of axed continuities.

Fear not though…WFC/FOC will get a Botcon. Heres a Rundown:

Box set:

Kup - FOC Optimus Prime mold with new head
Perceptor - WFC Deluxe Soundwave mold with new head
Skydive - FOC Air Raid mold
Glyph - WFC Bumblebee mold
Silverbolt - TF Prime Megatron voyager mold with new head

Freebie figure:

Slingshot - FOC Air Raid mold

Attendee set #1:
Galvatron - WFC Megatron mold with new head
Twincast with Nightstalker – FOC Blaster Voyager mold with Steeljaw disc


Attendee set #2:

Snapdragon - FOC Grimlock mold with new head
Nemesis Prime – WFC Optimus Prime mold

Troop builder set:

Coneheads 3 pack – FOC Starscream mold with new heads

Custom Class figure:

Tap Out - WFC Cliffjumper mold

Rated X wrote:I’m sure Has/Tak will go far with the MP line. But I just feel the size and price will hinder them from ever becoming the new “classics” line.

MP doesn't want to be the new "Classics" line - that's what Generations is for. MP wants to be a collector-oriented line that's slavishly G1 - and they've been largely successful thus far.

Rated X wrote:Not to mention the bigger characters that are supposed to dwarf MP-10 by G1 cartoon standards. Has/Tak seems to really be focused on cartoon scale accuracy since MP-10. But how big are they willing to go to keep it accurate ? I don’t expect Has/Tak to do any MP combiners. There’s always the guys who are making Warbotron, but as I stated before they’re going the “neo” route which doesn’t really fit in with the Has/Tak MP line.

I believe it's been stated that Takara wants to complete the 1984/Season 1 MP lineup of characters. That hopefully means Constructicons down the line. If they can get all the Season 1 characters, I can forgive the exclusion of crazy-big characters like Omega Supreme.

Rated X wrote:yadda yadda yadda WFC/FOC yadda yadda yadda

Rated X wrote:So I’m just curious how you feel about MMC abandoning HOS for classics ? I think they made a smart business decision and it’s paying off. Theres still enough characters left in the G1 pot that have never been touched. Especially if they start digging into the Japanese cartoons. What make you so sure Planet X wont surprise everyone with some Seacons in a year or so ? Maybe Monstructor or Lio Kaiser ? Im not saying it’s gonna be those characters, but Im willing to bet Planet X is going to make the switch to G1 classics…the line that never dies. WFC/FOC will join Animated and TF Prime in Hasbro’s vault of axed continuities.

The challenge of digging into Japanese cartoons is that some of those characters may be even more niche than WFC/FOC... just saying. We are talking about a recent video game franchise vs. 25 year old foreign animation, after all. At any rate, even a year after the release of Hexatron, the 3rd party market is much different than it was, and the risk that Planet X takes in shifting focus to a much more crowded marketplace might be calamitous. Like MMC, Planet X will probably need to hit several more figures out of the park, before they consider switching gears.

Rated X wrote:yadda yadda yadda WFC/FOC yadda yadda yadda

megatronus wrote:

Rated X wrote:I’m sure Has/Tak will go far with the MP line. But I just feel the size and price will hinder them from ever becoming the new “classics” line.

MP doesn't want to be the new "Classics" line - that's what Generations is for. MP wants to be a collector-oriented line that's slavishly G1 - and they've been largely successful thus far.

Rated X wrote:Not to mention the bigger characters that are supposed to dwarf MP-10 by G1 cartoon standards. Has/Tak seems to really be focused on cartoon scale accuracy since MP-10. But how big are they willing to go to keep it accurate ? I don’t expect Has/Tak to do any MP combiners. There’s always the guys who are making Warbotron, but as I stated before they’re going the “neo” route which doesn’t really fit in with the Has/Tak MP line.

I believe it's been stated that Takara wants to complete the 1984/Season 1 MP lineup of characters. That hopefully means Constructicons down the line. If they can get all the Season 1 characters, I can forgive the exclusion of crazy-big characters like Omega Supreme.

Rated X wrote:yadda yadda yadda WFC/FOC yadda yadda yadda

Rated X wrote:So I’m just curious how you feel about MMC abandoning HOS for classics ? I think they made a smart business decision and it’s paying off. Theres still enough characters left in the G1 pot that have never been touched. Especially if they start digging into the Japanese cartoons. What make you so sure Planet X wont surprise everyone with some Seacons in a year or so ? Maybe Monstructor or Lio Kaiser ? Im not saying it’s gonna be those characters, but Im willing to bet Planet X is going to make the switch to G1 classics…the line that never dies. WFC/FOC will join Animated and TF Prime in Hasbro’s vault of axed continuities.

The challenge of digging into Japanese cartoons is that some of those characters may be even more niche than WFC/FOC... just saying. We are talking about a recent video game franchise vs. 25 year old foreign animation, after all. At any rate, even a year after the release of Hexatron, the 3rd party market is much different than it was, and the risk that Planet X takes in shifting focus to a much more crowded marketplace might be calamitous. Like MMC, Planet X will probably need to hit several more figures out of the park, before they consider switching gears.

Rated X wrote:yadda yadda yadda WFC/FOC yadda yadda yadda

Sorry I don't see an MP Devastator. Not gonna happen. Way too big a feat for Has/Tak. And the new scale standard has them stuck between a rock and a hard spot with the Dinobots. Do they make a new Grimlock and piss everybody off ? I highly doubt it. Season one ? Really ? A Hasbro Shockwave after everyone already bought a near perfect Quakewave ? Hasbro MP Coneheads ? A little late ya think ?

Cant say I agree with you on Planet X not going classics in the future. WFC/FOC was hot a year ago. It's barely hot now or Hasbro wouldn't have dropped it for IDW. In 2 years do you think anyone's gonna give a crap about WFC/FOC ? It will join HOS, Animated, and TF Prime in the land of the forgotten. You cant compare FOC to G1, Beast Wars, or even the Michael Bay saga. It's just not that big. The toy line was made to help sell video games, not the other way around. It's done, Game over. Planet X is trying to keep FOC on life support like Terry Schiavo. It's time to pull the plug and let it rest in peace.

Bring it back for Botcon 2019. WFC/FOC is the next Machine Wars.

WFC/FOC is a little more than the next Machine Wars. Admittedly, not a whole lot more, but those late G1 guys cosplaying as early G1 guys would have killed for that much fiction. 2 video games and a few comics? And a lot more shelf presence for the plastic versions.

I don't disagree that Hasbro's been right to move on, but then it's not like they don't tend to change up the style of their main/non-movie lines fairly regularly anyway. I was surprised we got as much FOC stuff as we did.

I played the games and enjoyed them for what they were: yet another take on the pre-Earth days of Optimus Prime vs Megatron. Those FOC/WFC toys I've gotten have for the most part been added to my collection to represent original characters, or those bots with pre-Earth modes who don't really upgrade any way (I mostly just pretend Shockwave is away in the distance ) but it is kinda nice to have some of the iconic ones in their Cybertronian modes. That IDW used the WFC Bumblebee design made me like that a lot more. It was miles better than his current look. Honestly, I'm generally fine with most of my FOC stuff fitting into Classics.

I'd like a more G1 Swoop, but I think this one looks pretty good for the most part and lets be honest it's not really the same as an early G1 car or plane character. The Dinobots were never either realistic, or in disguise.

Let's not forget that a lot of media, good stories not withstanding, is intended to sell plastic to kids. The 3P market tends to cater to us collectors, not to parents with kids who want, want, want what they see on their TV or Video game screens.

And I have to disagree with X on things like Shockwave and the Coneheads. This site is ample evidence that there will be a market for such MP figures if Has/Tak decide to make them. I doubt very much that Hasbro is concerned by 3P and knockoffs affecting their figure releases. If they did, they would go even harder after such companies.

Agamemnon wrote:Let's not forget that a lot of media, good stories not withstanding, is intended to sell plastic to kids. The 3P market tends to cater to us collectors, not to parents with kids who want, want, want what they see on their TV or Video game screens.

And I have to disagree with X on things like Shockwave and the Coneheads. This site is ample evidence that there will be a market for such MP figures if Has/Tak decide to make them. I doubt very much that Hasbro is concerned by 3P and knockoffs affecting their figure releases. If they did, they would go even harder after such companies.

Sure some people will buy "official" MP coneheads and Shockwave if Takara makes them. But since most hardcore MP collectors already have the Igear/Fanstoys versions, the itch to get that character on the shelf is gone. It all boils down to how much of a hit are you willing to take to make your collection "official" ? with the reprolabel sets, those MP Coneheads really look on par with the Hasbro MP Seekers. I almost bought those coneheads, but I had to scale back and prioritize. and my priority is classics because I have a lot of money invested in that scale. Way too much to start over from scratch. Other than Skids, the Dinobots, and a bigger Huffer and Reflector, my season one itch is gone. Id rather have the late G1 characters that the other 3rd party companies are taking on.

craggy wrote:WFC/FOC is a little more than the next Machine Wars. Admittedly, not a whole lot more, but those late G1 guys cosplaying as early G1 guys would have killed for that much fiction. 2 video games and a few comics? And a lot more shelf presence for the plastic versions.

I don't disagree that Hasbro's been right to move on, but then it's not like they don't tend to change up the style of their main/non-movie lines fairly regularly anyway. I was surprised we got as much FOC stuff as we did.

I played the games and enjoyed them for what they were: yet another take on the pre-Earth days of Optimus Prime vs Megatron. Those FOC/WFC toys I've gotten have for the most part been added to my collection to represent original characters, or those bots with pre-Earth modes who don't really upgrade any way (I mostly just pretend Shockwave is away in the distance ) but it is kinda nice to have some of the iconic ones in their Cybertronian modes. That IDW used the WFC Bumblebee design made me like that a lot more. It was miles better than his current look. Honestly, I'm generally fine with most of my FOC stuff fitting into Classics.

I'd like a more G1 Swoop, but I think this one looks pretty good for the most part and lets be honest it's not really the same as an early G1 car or plane character. The Dinobots were never either realistic, or in disguise.

I agree with you on using WFC/FOC figures for their pre-Earth (or never went to Earth) renditions. It call them my “Ancient Cybertron” shelves. Although my use for the figures might make WFC/FOC purists want to puke…





In typical Hasbro fashion, expect to see the FOC mold repainted into Acid Storm Sunstorm, Coneheads with a new head mold, etc. Although I wish they would just make him into G1 Triggerhappy. Both modes would work quite well and I got the Mastershooter Blowpipe already.



If Takara makes a nice metallic FOC Thundercracker, Im so doing this to my Hasbro Thundercracker:

(WFC/FOC purists cover your eyes…G1 goodness in the next 3 photos)







FYI - I didn’t make this custom but it doesn’t look too hard to do.

Rated X wrote:Sure some people will buy "official" MP coneheads and Shockwave if Takara makes them. But since most hardcore MP collectors already have the Igear/Fanstoys versions, the itch to get that character on the shelf is gone. It all boils down to how much of a hit are you willing to take to make your collection "official"?

I would describe myself as a hardcore MP collector. Yet, I have not touched the MP-scale 3rd Party figures. I may be a minority, I may be one of many. I don't know. What I DO know, is that the stakes are much higher for a line that cannot rely on sales to kids. When fans do not buy official releases, and buy Quakewaves in lieu of an official Shockwave, the chances the line will go on decreases. And I have a vested interest in making sure the stream of MPs continues, so I keep my MP collection in particular official.

Rated X wrote:I agree with you on using WFC/FOC figures for their pre-Earth (or never went to Earth) renditions. It call them my “Ancient Cybertron” shelves. Although my use for the figures might make WFC/FOC purists want to puke…

I feel like you often phrase things in extremes - purists vs. non-purists. I don't think any of the people debating on this thread are "purists" as you imagine them - we just think your comments on this particular topic are misplaced given that this was made to be a FOC figure, not a Classics figure, and any collecting considerations have to be made in that light, regardless of how you would re-purpose this Swoop for your needs.

I think that for me and other collectors like me, that WfC/FoC will have a lasting effect. It's awesome fiction and an excellent alternate take on the pre-Earth Transformers saga.

I think there are just too many players in the game for Classics/Generations right now (including, as everyone has said, Hasbro and Takara) and that eventually they will run out of characters to do and the market will be too saturated.

As long as there are collectors like me who are into WfC/FoC for what it is or even Classics collectors in need of pre-Earth/Cybertronian versions of the characters there will be a market for what Planet X is doing.

Here's the list as far as I know. You can't tell me that there's any logical reason for another player like Planet X to jump into Classics/Generations:

1. Hasbro
2. Takara
3. MMC
4. TFC
5. FP
6. Maketoys
7. Toyworld
8. X-Transbots
9. CHMS (I count them as a separate company)
10. Dacatoys
11. KFC
12. iGear
13. Unique Toys
14. Warbotron
15. Perfect Effect
16. SXS
17. Megasteel
18. Xovergen
19. Before and After
20. BTS
21. Mach 5
22. Zenith Forge
23. Art Feather
24. Impossible Toys (until they called it quits altogether)

And that's not even counting all the other companies doing add-ons/accessories/alternate heads etc. for Classics/Generations figures like Dr Wu, Beezleboss, Headrobots etc. so yeah, I think Classics/Generations is covered thoroughly and a company like Planet X who have clearly found a profitable niche in the market that no one else is exploiting (including Hasbro/Takara at the moment) would be making a huge mistake if they decided to switch gears and jump on the bandwagon. They may not be as profitable as companies like Fansproject, but if they jumped into Classics/Generations at this point with the market as completely saturated as it is with competition from all sides, I think they'd end up failing big time just because of all the well established brands/companies and styles (the more "neo" styles like Has/Tak and FP, the more traditional/G1 styles like iGear and UT).

Besides that, some collectors are buying these "WfC/FoC" offerings from Planet X and shoehorning them into their Classics/Generations collections, so they're unintentionally getting some of that money anyway.

has anyone here (or anywhere, for that matter) described themselves by the phrase "WFC/FOC Purist"? I know there are people who are slavishly blind to all other forms of Transformer than one of the many G1 continuities (usually the cartoon, but sometimes one or other form of the comics) and are unable to accept anything that doesn't fit their very narrow-minded criteria, no matter how cool it is or how much fun it might be, but I can't think of many others, even those who've come into the fandom since the live-action Michael Bay films tend to have researched beyond them and seen other stuff they like.

xyl360 wrote: You can't tell me that there's any logical reason for another player like Planet X to jump into Classics/Generations:

The answer to your question lies with MMC:

For every person who would buy this:



There’s 10 people who would rather buy this:



So if you were a 3rd party designer who wants to put food on his table (and maybe buy a Lexus) which TF continuity would you mass produce ?


Doesn’t WFC/FOC have between 50-100 characters ? Do you really think Planet X is going to spend the next 10 years making them all ? There will always be another TF video game, comic book, cartoon series, live action movie, etc. They will come and go. But G1 lives on forever. Third party companies get that. The ones who don’t at first eventually do.

craggy wrote:has anyone here (or anywhere, for that matter) described themselves by the phrase "WFC/FOC Purist"? I know there are people who are slavishly blind to all other forms of Transformer than one of the many G1 continuities (usually the cartoon, but sometimes one or other form of the comics) and are unable to accept anything that doesn't fit their very narrow-minded criteria, no matter how cool it is or how much fun it might be, but I can't think of many others, even those who've come into the fandom since the live-action Michael Bay films tend to have researched beyond them and seen other stuff they like.

Somebody had used the term “WFC/FOC purist” earlier in this debate and it just kind of stuck with me. I’m not exactly sure how to describe one, but if I was to try I would go by these stereotypes

• 25 years of age or younger (doesn’t give a crap about G1)
• Addicted to video games
• Grew up with Michael Bay films or TF Prime
• Sees “neo” as an improvement rather than as a concept

I’m not saying anyone on here fits all of these stereotypes, It’s just the picture I get in my head when I read someone defending the WFC/FOC designers unorthodox and often unappealing choices (different sized Dinobots, monkey arms, puke color, 2 different Primes,etc.)

Rated X wrote:Doesn’t WFC/FOC have between 50-100 characters ? Do you really think Planet X is going to spend the next 10 years making them all ? There will always be another TF video game, comic book, cartoon series, live action movie, etc. They will come and go. But G1 lives on forever. Third party companies get that. The ones who don’t at first eventually do.

MMC released 4 molds (and then 2 more under the Mech iDeas brand) before moving on to Hexatron.

I never said Planet X will not or should not move to Classics - I think they should in time. But, they need this time to incubate their brand awareness, as well as their engineering, molding, and manufacturing capabilities while they exist in the relative safety of a niche market. This will help make a shift to Classics more sustainable, and less suicidal.

Rated X wrote:• 25 years of age or younger (doesn’t give a crap about G1)

Phew! Good thing I'm 26... I just made the cut.

i dnt mean get in between your debate but does anyone kno the actual date planet x's not swoop is gon drop and are the other dinos n the works or r they gon wait to see how the 1st one sells 1st

For **** sakes can we stop bickering about pointless ****. If you don't like WFC/FOC then go somewhere else and complain about it. Leave this thread to actually talk about Caelus.

I can tolerate your opinion X but when you throw in words like stereotypes it just gets offensive. Okay so anyone under 25 doesn't like G1? Anyone who actually enjoys FoC or WfC is not just a casual video game player, they are ADDICTED to video games like druggies addicted to crack cocaine. Oh and that means the people support Caelus were brought into Transformers when the Bay movies or Prime TV series came on, so they're like 14-15 years old? Oh and because one collects FoC or WfC means that they don't collect Classics. Okay there. Just get out of here, you're embarrassing yourself.

Rumblebee357 wrote:i dnt mean get in between your debate but does anyone kno the actual date planet x's not swoop is gon drop and are the other dinos n the works or r they gon wait to see how the 1st one sells 1st

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/prod ... ode=retail
He's set for release next year January-March. I'm pretty sure Genesis made a big enough profit for them to fund Caelus and one or two more molds. We'll find out in the next few months whether or not they're coming out with the others, but I'm sure they will.

ok appreciate the info

Rated X wrote:

craggy wrote:has anyone here (or anywhere, for that matter) described themselves by the phrase "WFC/FOC Purist"? I know there are people who are slavishly blind to all other forms of Transformer than one of the many G1 continuities (usually the cartoon, but sometimes one or other form of the comics) and are unable to accept anything that doesn't fit their very narrow-minded criteria, no matter how cool it is or how much fun it might be, but I can't think of many others, even those who've come into the fandom since the live-action Michael Bay films tend to have researched beyond them and seen other stuff they like.

Somebody had used the term “WFC/FOC purist” earlier in this debate and it just kind of stuck with me. I’m not exactly sure how to describe one, but if I was to try I would go by these stereotypes

• 25 years of age or younger (doesn’t give a crap about G1)
• Addicted to video games
• Grew up with Michael Bay films or TF Prime
• Sees “neo” as an improvement rather than as a concept

I’m not saying anyone on here fits all of these stereotypes, It’s just the picture I get in my head when I read someone defending the WFC/FOC designers unorthodox and often unappealing choices (different sized Dinobots, monkey arms, puke color, 2 different Primes,etc.)

actually, I'd be willing to bet that the reasons for much of that will be because these were designed for the video games first and foremost. I'm sure Hasbro made sure the designs were fairly easy to transfer to plastic if the games were a hit (or they couldn't come up with anything they thought would sell better to fill between movies).

The new Prime model looks nicer in the game engine. It's got less fiddly stuff going on probably making it run a lot smoother and if Hasbro had made the toy a Voyager instead of a Deluxe it'd probably have got a lot more love than it did. I personally prefer the WFC Optimus design, both in game and in plastic. It's just a bit sexier. The FOC one does make a nice Magnus, again, if it was a size up.

The Dinos were made to fit into the size classes set out in the FOC multiplayer. As the comparison pic earlier in the thread shows, each was made for a different role. Something I'm impressed they managed to do given that the classes were based on the WFC ones where it was all based on which vehicle alt mode a character had. Slag (or is it Snarl?) is the smallest because he had to fit into the "Scout" class, like Bumblebee and all the other car-mode bots. Grimlock was in the "Leader" class which was all tanks. The other non-flyer was substituting for the truck-mode guys and of course Swoop made the easiest transition as his alt mode is basically a jet with weird wing animations and they already had some of that going on.

Right there with ya on the colours being a bit dodgy. Although as far as the toys go that's all Hasbro, because the in-game Dinobots were quite shiny IIRC. Again though, both the games had weird stuff going on with multiplayer colours. I don't think it has anything to do with these particular toys, or the actual Dinobot characters but it's worth noting if you're to look at screen-shots from the game. It might not be the actual Dinos but someone's MP characters using their models.

Monkey arms? Well, that's not something that started with WFC or FOC and it hasn't ended with them either. Better monkey arms than chicken legs.

craggy wrote:

Rated X wrote:

craggy wrote:has anyone here (or anywhere, for that matter) described themselves by the phrase "WFC/FOC Purist"? I know there are people who are slavishly blind to all other forms of Transformer than one of the many G1 continuities (usually the cartoon, but sometimes one or other form of the comics) and are unable to accept anything that doesn't fit their very narrow-minded criteria, no matter how cool it is or how much fun it might be, but I can't think of many others, even those who've come into the fandom since the live-action Michael Bay films tend to have researched beyond them and seen other stuff they like.

Somebody had used the term “WFC/FOC purist” earlier in this debate and it just kind of stuck with me. I’m not exactly sure how to describe one, but if I was to try I would go by these stereotypes

• 25 years of age or younger (doesn’t give a crap about G1)
• Addicted to video games
• Grew up with Michael Bay films or TF Prime
• Sees “neo” as an improvement rather than as a concept

I’m not saying anyone on here fits all of these stereotypes, It’s just the picture I get in my head when I read someone defending the WFC/FOC designers unorthodox and often unappealing choices (different sized Dinobots, monkey arms, puke color, 2 different Primes,etc.)

actually, I'd be willing to bet that the reasons for much of that will be because these were designed for the video games first and foremost. I'm sure Hasbro made sure the designs were fairly easy to transfer to plastic if the games were a hit (or they couldn't come up with anything they thought would sell better to fill between movies).

The new Prime model looks nicer in the game engine. It's got less fiddly stuff going on probably making it run a lot smoother and if Hasbro had made the toy a Voyager instead of a Deluxe it'd probably have got a lot more love than it did. I personally prefer the WFC Optimus design, both in game and in plastic. It's just a bit sexier. The FOC one does make a nice Magnus, again, if it was a size up.

The Dinos were made to fit into the size classes set out in the FOC multiplayer. As the comparison pic earlier in the thread shows, each was made for a different role. Something I'm impressed they managed to do given that the classes were based on the WFC ones where it was all based on which vehicle alt mode a character had. Slag (or is it Snarl?) is the smallest because he had to fit into the "Scout" class, like Bumblebee and all the other car-mode bots. Grimlock was in the "Leader" class which was all tanks. The other non-flyer was substituting for the truck-mode guys and of course Swoop made the easiest transition as his alt mode is basically a jet with weird wing animations and they already had some of that going on.

Right there with ya on the colours being a bit dodgy. Although as far as the toys go that's all Hasbro, because the in-game Dinobots were quite shiny IIRC. Again though, both the games had weird stuff going on with multiplayer colours. I don't think it has anything to do with these particular toys, or the actual Dinobot characters but it's worth noting if you're to look at screen-shots from the game. It might not be the actual Dinos but someone's MP characters using their models.

Monkey arms? Well, that's not something that started with WFC or FOC and it hasn't ended with them either. Better monkey arms than chicken legs.

Well, I guess maybe the game designers had their reasons for making them different sizes. But it doesn’t really translate too well into figures on a shelf unless you actually play the game and understand the reasons you just explained. Id rather have a team that looks like equals side by side than a team restricted to the confines of video game rules. But that’s just me. If they were all Grimlock’s height I would be a buyer and they would have $400-500 of my money in their pockets. Im sure others would follow. They shouldn’t have nitpicked so much about game accuracy. Hasbro sure didn’t. Im willing to bet that if Hasbro did make all 5 FOC dinobots they would have ditched the game scale. They took too much criticism on their Animated versions to go through the same thing again. It’s probably also the reason why Takara doesn’t want to touch the other four Dinobots for the MP line. Do they go by real dinosaurs scale or cartoon accurate robot modes ? They're stumped.

Blurrz wrote:I can tolerate your opinion X but when you throw in words like stereotypes it just gets offensive.

And this is coming from the guy who likes to make offensive comments about me like this ?

Rated X wrote:

Blurrz wrote:I can tolerate your opinion X but when you throw in words like stereotypes it just gets offensive.

And this is coming from the guy who likes to make offensive comments about me like this ?

No, no, no... That's not an offensive comment, it's an observation, which is being confirmed by this thread

Alright, I think we should get back to the FoC Swoop.

With Xmas here (and some unexpected expensive gifts for the wife and kids) my wallet is happy with the first quarter release projection. But, as good as this looks, I don't want to wait!