The Energon Pub

VecPrime wrote:How can you wave the banner of science and progress without knowing the latest developments?

I'm a biologist not a physicist, and to be fair the amount of arguing and debatating and retesting, and general milling about means i tend not to get excited by "new developments"; when it becomes paradigm, then i'll be interested

i literally would die, in about 24 hours, without medical science, probably would be out of a job too...

VecPrime wrote:Tammuz, i think you need help. It's quite obvious to me that you bottle up your emotions due to some form of childhood abuse. Seriously, ive known Transformers with more humanity than I got from your last post.

it's always nice to have help.

i wasn't abused as a child, nor have i been as an adult....i'm actually quite a happy fellow.

the thing is, whether i'm happy about it or not, doesn't chance the state of something's existence.

by the very nature if something depends on our emotional state it is subjective. and ideally when making conclusions we should be as objective as possible.

oh yeah, and humanity is for humans, being god(see last post) i have something better.

VecPrime wrote:Unfortunately your precious science knows no cure for the abused.... nothing permanent anyway, just pallative care for the mentally ill.

where as faith heals down's syndrome, Parkinson's, and alzheimer's...

VecPrime wrote:Using pure logic and rationality, then we should say that it would be hundreds of times more efficient to dispose of the disabled...

no, i rather like Hawkins; just becuase your disabled in one area doesn't mean you are disabled in all areas. as some one with a disability i find this quite offensive

VecPrime wrote:See where it leads? It led that way for me. Before, i saw life as worth only the chemicals it is made out of, or maybe the 3.99 suggested by the people who sell lawn darts. A few whacks to the pineal gland later... i believe much differently. (Not physical whacks either)

I think that if not for my faith i would have become a school shooter, what with the way i was treated in that prison known among the students as "Osceola State Pen" (Osceola High - a school here in Tampa Bay that im surprised the Seminole havent done a thing about yet.)

I really dont have a beef with non-belief so long as they're not trying to diagnose me and send me off to the gulag for re-education. But your words...they imply that i am technically insane with all the implications therof.

ah implications, that sounds like further lack of objectivity, what exactly are the implications of insanity?

VecPrime wrote:And that sort of arrogance and hubris is precisely what turned me off of you guys.

you're not the first person to call god arrogant on these forums, and not probably not the last to say that's what turned you off him either.

Oh, Smooth, its not a matter of making anyone believe anything.
I'ts frankly more of a respect issue.

Or do only athiests have the right to (anti-?)preach in this forum?

Thats what i cant stand - the whole attitude that you guys are so elite and that i am nothing more than a defective drone. Cause thats what insanity and disability imply in the real world.

I wish things werent as harsh as they are. i wish we had the resources to just keep on giving and helping people, but the sickening truth is that Earth's fuel needle is sitting on E and the grade of minerals just keeps going lower and lower on this world.

What are we going to do as rational, logical people once we hit the point that we are no longer able to offer disability?
I fear for our future. I may be able to synthesize oil from biological material, but i cant make a similar "iron machine".

That's why id probably kill myself if i were an atheist. Nothing personal towards you, its just me.

As someone who has, on more than one occassion, taken things too far and caused offense without meaning to, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here.

VecPrime wrote: Oh, Smooth, its not a matter of making anyone believe anything.
I'ts frankly more of a respect issue.

Or do only athiests have the right to (anti-?)preach in this forum?

Not at all. But people have the right to disagree with you. They will argue with your ideas just as you argue with theirs. It's not a difficult concept, now is it?

VecPrime wrote:
Thats what i cant stand - the whole attitude that you guys are so elite and that i am nothing more than a defective drone. Cause thats what insanity and disability imply in the real world.

I have re-read the entire thread and I can't find a single case of an atheist treating you like a defective drone. I also can't find an atheist saying that they're "so elite." The atheist argument is nothing more than, "I won't believe in supernatural claims unless evidence is presented." Most atheists accept that they don't know everything and probably never will. That's not a reason to fall back on bronze age superstition. Wondering where everything came from is a difficult question. It would be so easy to pull the answer out of a badly translated book, but "easy" and "correct" do not always go hand in hand.

VecPrime wrote:I wish things werent as harsh as they are. i wish we had the resources to just keep on giving and helping people, but the sickening truth is that Earth's fuel needle is sitting on E and the grade of minerals just keeps going lower and lower on this world.

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. It's a serious problem and the obvious answer to make whatever changes are necessary in our fuel consumption habits while looking for alternate sources of fuel.

VecPrime wrote:What are we going to do as rational, logical people once we hit the point that we are no longer able to offer disability?
I fear for our future. I may be able to synthesize oil from biological material, but i cant make a similar "iron machine".

Rational, logical people (the people who, for example, don't think that they can just pray their problems away) will continue to experiment with alternative fuels until a suitable solution is found. When the mineral reserves run low, then an alternate source of building materials will have to be found. Again, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

VecPrime wrote:That's why id probably kill myself if i were an atheist. Nothing personal towards you, its just me.

I want to remind you that you just said that, if you were like me, you would kill yourself. How on earth do you expect me (and Atheists) not to take that personally? Were you to say that to an Atheist in person, and not behind the internet, I would fully expect them to punch you. Nothing personal towards you, it's just me.

Your argument for having faith in the supernatural is that because reality looks as though it will become more and more grim. You believe that the supernatural will be of some good. Let's see if that works in other situations. Since you've mentioned wanting to stay out of Arkham Asylum, I assume you're a comic book reader.

Crime in New York City is high. It's not the highest in the world, but it's higher than anyone would like. People are killed every day. Women are raped every day. People are robbed every day. It's pretty grim. Now, I would like to believe that, eventually, Spider-Man and The Avengers will put a stop to crime in New York City. Believing that will make me feel better. Without Spider-Man and The Avengers, at least, crime would get worse.

You can't prove that Spider-Man and the Avengers have no impact on the crime rate in New York City. Even if there's no evidence supporting their existance, you can't prove they don't. It doesn't matter anyway, because believing in them makes me feel better about the terrible crime rate in New York City.

VecPrime wrote:I fear for our future. I may be able to synthesize oil from biological material, but i cant make a similar "iron machine".

Achem recycling; ring a bell? Hell we'd probably run out of available iron ore within a decade if it wasn't for the amount of recycling we do. And yea we could do better; alot better.

As for new sources; well look above, and just hope (or pray if thats your cup of tea) one such sourse doesn't decide to come down to earth and "smite" us any time soon.

"I want to remind you that you just said that, if you were like me, you would kill yourself. How on earth do you expect me (and Atheists) not to take that personally? Were you to say that to an Atheist in person, and not behind the internet, I would fully expect them to punch you. Nothing personal towards you, it's just me."

And you wonder why people think you guys have severe anger issues? instead of allowing dissent, you stifle it with a cast iron fist. Sans the velvet glove even.

Am i not allowed to believe in something outside of the universe (well, not really but bear with me) while continuing to investigate what's inside it (the creation) with all scientific rigor?

Even Einstein would at least drop the name of God on occasion...

VecPrime wrote:And you wonder why people think you guys have severe anger issues? instead of allowing dissent, you stifle it with a cast iron fist. Sans the velvet glove even.

Atheists are in no position to stifle decent. Christians control every branch of US government. You put forth that, if you were an atheist, you would kill yourself. That is incredibly offensive and impossible to "not take personally."

Your definition of "allowing dissent" seems to be "I get to say whatever I want and other people can not comment on it." You have seen fit to offer dissent with my views, am I not allowed to do the same?

VecPrime wrote:Am i not allowed to believe in something outside of the universe (well, not really but bear with me) while continuing to investigate what's inside it (the creation) with all scientific rigor?

You can believe what you want. So can everyone. And everyone is free to discuss their findings. Your "findings" are not based on evidence. As such, they are easier to critique than others.

VecPrime wrote:Even Einstein would at least drop the name of God on occasion...

Is that right? He would talk about Jehova? Einstein was quite clear that he did not believe in a personal god.

Einstein was agnostic, if you have to pigeonhole someones beleifs.

einstein was a sceintist, one with rather good ideas, but he, like any scientist, could get things wrong, as he did with his cosmological constant, he wasn't a messiah.

dropping an eminit scientist's name isn't going to cut much flak here vec prime, it's a classic example of an argument from authority, a logical fallacy, its the inverse of ad hominem.

I've read several Scientology Documents, and I get pissed when I hear "Xenu is a lie, it has nothing to do with our Religion" Denial is the first step, the nextstep is finding out it is part of the religion and paying alot of money. To get further up the Bridge you need to sacrifice quite alot, they soften your mind and will, so you feel accepted by them and then let them tell you how to live, what people to ignour and stay away from, usually you're loving parents or best friends.

I'm speaking as a frustrated citizen, maybe Terrorism is the answer? Just kidding.

If anyone here is asked to do a Questionare in a dark room, assume the person is a Rapist or Scientologist, and punch them in the junk. If you have family members in the CULT, don't belittle them, don't make fun of them, don't ignour them, Punch them in the JUNK!

Cornicer wrote:I'm sorry, but the DC-8 thing is the breaking point where I just thought to myself: "Was Hubbard on the sauce when he wrote this part?"

The Man was an abusive ape who lost his mind to his own stories.

Terrorism? i would do it. Just give me a kT worth of ye glowing rock, and i would walk that snuke right into the Fort Homicide. would be dying of rad poisoning from making the bomb anyhow.

Purification, WH40K Imperial style, baby. Thousands sacrificed so we can get rid of a dangrous cult - with scientology, i find that price acceptanble so that no one ever gets hurt again.

Yes, i am that frustrated at them.

P.S. I am quite aware of Einstein being a secular Jew. Im just saying that if he were an athiest, he would have probably gotten along GREAT with Teller.

VecPrime wrote:Terrorism? i would do it. Just give me a kT worth of ye glowing rock, and i would walk that snuke right into the Fort Homicide. would be dying of rad poisoning from making the bomb anyhow.

Purification, WH40K Imperial style, baby. Thousands sacrificed so we can get rid of a dangrous cult - with scientology, i find that price acceptanble so that no one ever gets hurt again.

Yes, i am that frustrated at them.

you know, i think that's the best argument for faith based reasoning being one and the same as insanity.

of course it's also contradictory to your earlier statment;

Somethings wrong with someone who blithely talks of utopia by any means necessary

VecPrime wrote:P.S. I am quite aware of Einstein being a secular Jew. Im just saying that if he were an athiest, he would have probably gotten along GREAT with Teller.

so? what's that got to do with you're preivious argument

VecPrime wrote:stalin? i can't say i approve of his methods at all, but you have to admire his balls

In that case you must certainly admire George Washington and the other revolutionist for their balls of steel during their stand and defeat of the British, right? I'm honestly curious.

well i most certainly do admire them.

Dont mind me, i just got kicked out of what was to be a good job because i became the telephone fart filter for the day.

And the fact that Scientology exists frankly frustrates the heck out of me to the point where i do want to obliterate the idiots and call it a day. I keep on seeing things like Lisa MNcPherson and Herbert Pfaff happen and no one is stopping them from perpetuating the mental and financial rape.

VecPrime wrote:And the fact that Scientology exists frankly frustrates the heck out of me to the point where i do want to obliterate the idiots and call it a day. I keep on seeing things like Lisa MNcPherson and Herbert Pfaff happen and no one is stopping them from perpetuating the mental and financial rape.

Now you can't go around killing people for believing in stupid things-- you should go around killing people who believe something different than you.

Seriously though, man, pot and kettle. Keep it copasetic and just worry about how a religion affects humanity, positive or negative. In this case, other than making Hollywood stars even bigger douches, this religion seems to be pretty benign.

HoosierDaddy wrote:

VecPrime wrote:stalin? i can't say i approve of his methods at all, but you have to admire his balls

In that case you must certainly admire George Washington and the other revolutionist for their balls of steel during their stand and defeat of the British, right? I'm honestly curious.

not really, don't really know that much about him. sorry.

I don't think any religion has gotten the story completely right. Scientology is just nuts though. It's a money making scam with the most rediculous beliefs that at best are on par with the worst B movies. If you want to pay hundreds of dollars for people to tell you crazy stories just so you can work up to the point where you have to pay hundreds more to hear about L. Ron's bullcrap past lives, then you have to be really really stupid or really really bored with way too much money on your hands.

If thats what they believe, so be it. My problem is that their religious leaders have wrapped the whole thing in a blasted Ponzi scheme.