The Energon Pub

Yeah, it does mean something, it means I know how things run, so stop trying to talk down to me, you arrogant prat. And clearly, it's talking about G1 Starscream, because his is an indestructable spark, as evidenced in G1 and Beast Wars. And I never said they don't count, if you'll open your eyes, meat. I said they don't count if you're trying to talk about the cartoon.

Here's the original post, since once again, you're only skip read:

Babylon Queen wrote:Why is it that his spark is the only one that cannot be destroyed as well as Rampage? Does Starscream have the matrix of conquest or had contract with it?

Aside from the clearly misinformed question, it's obviously G1 Starscream she's talking about, since he's the only one with an undestroyable spark.

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, it does mean something, it means I know how things run, so stop trying to talk down to me, you arrogant prat. And clearly, it's talking about G1 Starscream, because his is an indestructable spark, as evidenced in G1 and Beast Wars. And I never said they don't count, if you'll open your eyes, meat. I said they don't count if you're trying to talk about the cartoon.

Here's the original post, since once again, you're only skip read:

Babylon Queen wrote:Why is it that his spark is the only one that cannot be destroyed as well as Rampage? Does Starscream have the matrix of conquest or had contract with it?

Aside from the clearly misinformed question, it's obviously G1 Starscream she's talking about, since he's the only one with an undestroyable spark.

Damolisher, if that were true, you would not be trolling people left and right. You woudl not be throwing insults and picking fights, which you have cotinuously been doing since I got here.

Secondly, G1 Starscream does not mean cartoon Starscream. It means G1 Starscream, and that includes cartoon, Marvel comics, and Dreamwave comics. They are all G1.

God, you're ****ing ridiculous. I don't know why I waste my time arguing with you. You're so ridiculously opinionated, you'll argue against the most obvious crap ever. CARTOON STARSCREAM IS THE ONLY ONE WHO EVER CAME BACK AS A BLOODY GHOST IN G1! The Comic Starscream got killed by the Underbase, so we know his spark isn't indestructable, and we never got as far as Dreamwave's Starscream being killed. YOU KNEW WHAT I MEANT, SO STOP BEING A SMUG GIT AND STOP ARGUING!

Damolisher wrote:God, you're ****ing ridiculous. I don't know why I waste my time arguing with you. You're so ridiculously opinionated, you'll argue against the most obvious crap ever. CARTOON STARSCREAM IS THE ONLY ONE WHO EVER CAME BACK AS A BLOODY GHOST IN G1! The Comic Starscream got killed by the Underbase, so we know his spark isn't indestructable, and we never got as far as Dreamwave's Starscream being killed. And if you manage to argue with that, it just proves how ridiculously petty and ignorant you actually are, doesn't it? And I'm not trolling, I'm disagreeing withothers. All I posted was that I thought other Transformers sparks were in different areas, then you had to try and out opinion me, reekazoid. So don't try and push your CRAP onto someone else's plate. Arse.

Damiolisher, Starscream's spark is indestructible in every continuity, not just the cartoon. IF it wasn't he would not have been able to be reobrn after the inciudent with the Underbase in Marvel. Remember, he came back. Fi his spark was not indestructible, it would have been impossible to revive him at all. So, no, it isn't just in the cartoon that he had an idestructible spark. If it were only in the cartoon that his spark were indestructible, the Dreamwave comics would never have mentioned that he had an indestructible spark. Therefore, it is not just the cartoon we are dealing with here.

You are making unfounded assumptions.

And secondly, disagreeing woth someone is not trolling, but throwing around insults is. Calling people "douchebag" or "Arse" or aother names is blatant flaming. That is trolling.

Wow. Just wow. You still manage to argue with that last post. That just goes to show how LITTLE you know, and how pathetic you are. OK, get this through your thick bloody head: If his spark were indestructable in the comics, he would've come back as a ghost there. By your logic, every character that got reactivated in the comics had an undestroyable spark. Which they didn't. It's a cartoon only matter, troll. Go play under your bridge. This argument's over. That last post just proved you're as ignorant as you are arrogant.

Also, if you'll actually take time out to read Babylon Queen's posts, she only really knows about the cartoon, so once again, WRONG!

Damolisher wrote:Wow. Just wow. You still manage to argue with that last post. That just goes to show how LITTLE you know, and how pathetic you are. OK, get this through your thick bloody head: If his spark were indestructable in the comics, he would've come back as a ghost there. By your logic, every character that got reactivated in the comics had an undestroyable spark. Which they didn't. It's a cartoon only matter, troll. Go play under your bridge. This argument's over. That last post just proved you're as ignorant as you are arrogant.

Not true. The only person being ignorant and arrogant is you. Secondly, not every character in the Marvel comic was [completely destroyed. Most were simply heavily damaged, which is survivable, given the proper repairs. Starscream was completely destroyed. All that was left was fragments and a barely there skeleton. There was nothing left. He was dead, not just in stasis lock. I have the issues in question Damolisher. He had suffered sustained catastrophic damage to every system in his body, and completely ripped apart by the energies of the Underbase. HE died, yet he was resurrected. That is because of his indestructible spark.
Damolisher, you think you know everything about TransFormers, but you don't. I don't even know everything about them, and have never claimed to, which is why I always research and use reference. And, for the record, just because I haven't been a member of this board, does not make me new to this site, or to TF fandom. I came over here specifically because Ryan asked all TransTopia members to register here as well to make sure our screen names were reserved, and I have been a long-time member over there.

He was dead, troll. Jesus, you'll argue with anything when you wish you were right, won't you? You seem to think because you jump to a conclusion, it's right. Give me a scan of the comic page is says he's not dead, and I'll agree. It's never explicitly stated and you're just talking out of your arse as usual.

Damolisher wrote:He was dead, troll. Jesus, you'll argue with anything when you wish you were right, won't you? You seem to think because you jump to a conclusion, it's right. Give me a scan of the comic page is says he's not dead, and I'll agree. It's never explicitly stated and you're just talking out of your arse as usual.

Damolisher. I never said he wasn't dead. In fact I said just the opposite. Read before you post. The very fact that is was even possible to brong Starcream back proves that he had an indestructible spark even in the Marvel run. He was completely destroyed, which should have made brining him back impossible. The others were simply heavily damaged and in stasis lock. Starscream was dead, yet he was resurrected.

Also, the very fact that a comic book source [u]specifically[/u referenced his indestructible spark shows that it is not just a cartoon phenomena. It is part of his character throughout TF canon, not just the G1 cartoon.

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:
So where does the life-giving Spark fit in?

Is the Brains or the Spark, crucial for survival?

Both. According to TF More than Meets the Eye #8, "Most damage is not fatal to a Cybertronian outright; even dramatic system damage can eventually be repaired. It takes a sustained and immence amount amount of damage to permanently extinguish a spark, although it's certainly not impossible. Any damage that affects the subject's neuro-circuits is capable of destroying that Cybertronian permanently; the destruction of the brain casing is uniformly fatal—except in the case of an aberrant spark." (TF MtMtE #8 page 15).

Sounds like Jazz's death didn't satisfy any of the criteria

the TF canon is more or less completely f**ked, there is no right or wrong answer.

According to TF: More than Meets the Eye #8, the spark does not reside in any single part of the body, but rather fills the entire being from head to toe

not wrong, but but consider that BW shows the spark as a ball of energy separate from the rest of the body and in a specific part of the body, like TM2 Cheetor has his on his leg.

Just pick 'n' mix your own personal canon.

Peace.

Gutsman Heavy wrote:the TF canon is more or less completely f**ked, there is no right or wrong answer.

According to TF: More than Meets the Eye #8, the spark does not reside in any single part of the body, but rather fills the entire being from head to toe

not wrong, but but consider that BW shows the spark as a ball of energy separate from the rest of the body and in a specific part of the body, like TM2 Cheetor has his on his leg.

Just pick 'n' mix your own personal canon.

Peace.

Close. When it is outside the body, yes, it does form a sperical shape, and yes, where the "spark crystal" is located varies from character to character in Beast Wars, but that does not mean that the spark itself doesn't still suffuse the entire body. In fact, it wouldn't make sense for the spark to be limited to one location in the body for a numberof reasons. The Spark Crystal is just the "gateway". The Spark is the life essence of the TransFormer, thus it would have to fill the entire body, not be located in just one part. If that were the case, then only that one location would have "life" in it. The rest would simply be "dead" metal. Not only that, but having the spark located in just one part of the body would make it more vulnerable to destruction. All you would need to do is hit the spark chamber, and they're dead. Not a good plan for survival.

Spark on his leg? I wonder who will live if his legs were cut off. Legs or body?

Transformers were treated a lot more like just robots with A.I.s for brains in the comics. Starscream's "death" because of the Underbase and subsequent rebirth had nothing to do with a spark, indestructible or otherwise. Several Decepticons were obliterated by Omega Supreme, and were promptly reactivated by Scorponok's crew years later. And then there was the case of Optimus Prime, who was saved on a floppy disk - where was the spark there? So basically, it was almost always possible to bring back destroyed Transformers in the comics, Starscream was no exception.

Even then, going by the Furman written story, Starscream was still alive, even directly after the Underbase. His skeletal body was blowing crap up when he was found by Darkwing and Dreadwind. His mind kept alive by the residual energies of the Underbase.

I'm also reiterating my stance that, while yes the MTMTE profile books from Dreamwave did they're best to create their universe out of a merged aspect of cartoon and comic, this doesn't apply for either individually. And their "official cannon" stance died when the company did - Furman written or otherwise.

Auto Bot wrote:Spark on his leg? I wonder who will live if his legs were cut off. Legs or body?

Exactly, Imagine being killed because you got shot in the leg. Besides, I believe the whole "Spark Crystal" thing was just on the toys, and didn't play a part in the show.

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Spark on his leg? I wonder who will live if his legs were cut off. Legs or body?

Exactly, Imagine being killed because you got shot in the leg. Besides, I believe the whole "Spark Crystal" thing was just on the toys, and didn't play a part in the show.

Actually, in the Beast Wars episode "Feral Scream", Optimus accessed Cheetor's spark in order to pull him out of his feral state. Guess where Prime did this from? Yep, his leg. Hmmmmm.

Loki120 wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Spark on his leg? I wonder who will live if his legs were cut off. Legs or body?

Exactly, Imagine being killed because you got shot in the leg. Besides, I believe the whole "Spark Crystal" thing was just on the toys, and didn't play a part in the show.

Actually, in the Beast Wars episode "Feral Scream", Optimus accessed Cheetor's spark in order to pull him out of his feral state. Guess where Prime did this from? Yep, his leg. Hmmmmm.

He's just got to get those legs insured!

I think Jamie Lee Curtis did.

This is quite simple realy;
the spark wasn't invented until beast wars, so it is near imposible to relate it to G1. After Beast Wars and (shuder) Beast Machiens, everyone had thier own take on "the spark" and ran with it. We are trying to conect things that are inharently diferant.
And yes Cheetor's spark is in his leg.

Loki120 wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Spark on his leg? I wonder who will live if his legs were cut off. Legs or body?

Exactly, Imagine being killed because you got shot in the leg. Besides, I believe the whole "Spark Crystal" thing was just on the toys, and didn't play a part in the show.

Actually, in the Beast Wars episode "Feral Scream", Optimus accessed Cheetor's spark in order to pull him out of his feral state. Guess where Prime did this from? Yep, his leg. Hmmmmm.

Interesting.

That still just shows where the access port is. It doesn't mean the thr entire spark is located in just the one part of the body.

[quote='Whiner-tron]This is quite simple realy;
the spark wasn't invented until beast wars, so it is near imposible to relate it to G1. After Beast Wars and (shuder) Beast Machiens, everyone had thier own take on "the spark" and ran with it. We are trying to conect things that are inharently diferant.
And yes Cheetor's spark is in his leg.[/quote]
I think we all know that the concept of the "spark" wasn't created until Beast Wars, but it has been retroactively apllied to G1, especially since Beast Wars is supposed to be a follow-up to G1 and part of the same universe. And the DreamWave comics specifically refer to it and has a whole page devoted to the discussion of it in MtMtE#8, which is what makes it all the more relevant in explaining Starscream, since the DW comics specifically tie into Beast Wars with their use of Beast Wars Megatron and Dinobot in the beginning and end of MtMtE.

Ugh. If it weren't for the idea of time travel in Beast Wars, I would want to watch that show. If they were just Tfs who were around at that time and who happened to get lost, then it would make the "We forgot about Earth," thing very believable because they had never been there and it was not named yet...

But anyway, I digress.
I wonder if Starscream's spark is not the only one that survives. I don't mean the ability to be visible, nor the ability to possess, but simply to survive after death. That they don't wink out of existance in totality, and not just reside in the Matrix. What happens if the Matrix is destroyed? Does that mean they have no Afterlife then?

Well, remember, the Matrix is a gate to the spark of Primus himself, and it is there that all sparks return upon death, except aberrant sparks like Starscream's. What makes his spark special is that it won't return to Primus. It lingers and is able to take on new bodies and even posess others. He's effectively immortal.

Zombie Starscream wrote:Ugh. If it weren't for the idea of time travel in Beast Wars, I would want to watch that show. If they were just Tfs who were around at that time and who happened to get lost, then it would make the "We forgot about Earth," thing very believable because they had never been there and it was not named yet...

But anyway, I digress.
I wonder if Starscream's spark is not the only one that survives. I don't mean the ability to be visible, nor the ability to possess, but simply to survive after death. That they don't wink out of existance in totality, and not just reside in the Matrix. What happens if the Matrix is destroyed? Does that mean they have no Afterlife then?

The Matrix & the Matrix of leadership, which the current Prime carries around, are two different things. The MoL is more of a symbol of the Matrix with the memories of the past Primes infused within.

Oh, & watch Beast Wars! XD

Justicity wrote:

Zombie Starscream wrote:Ugh. If it weren't for the idea of time travel in Beast Wars, I would want to watch that show. If they were just Tfs who were around at that time and who happened to get lost, then it would make the "We forgot about Earth," thing very believable because they had never been there and it was not named yet...

But anyway, I digress.
I wonder if Starscream's spark is not the only one that survives. I don't mean the ability to be visible, nor the ability to possess, but simply to survive after death. That they don't wink out of existance in totality, and not just reside in the Matrix. What happens if the Matrix is destroyed? Does that mean they have no Afterlife then?

The Matrix & the Matrix of leadership, which the current Prime carries around, are two different things. The MoL is more of a symbol of the Matrix with the memories of the past Primes infused within.

Oh, & watch Beast Wars! XD

Actually, they are the same thing. The Matrix is both the most effective source of new Sparks as well as a symbol of leadership on Cybertron. It is a direct conduit to Primus himself. As MtMtE #8, page 36 says,

The Matrix is an anciet artifiact that remains central to Cybertronian society [See Cybertron] to this very day. An object of great power, it is coveted by all factions involved in the conflict. [b]In addition to its symbolic significance as a marker of leadership, theMatrix is also the most effective source of new sparks—making iot a font of Transformer life.

Ugh, why do you struggle with this concept, Tramp: MTMTE ONLY APPLIES TO THE DREAMWAVE CONTINUITY, NOT ANY OTHER UNVERSE! Goddammit!

Damolisher wrote:Ugh, why do you struggle with this concept, Tramp: MTMTE ONLY APPLIES TO THE DREAMWAVE CONTINUITY, NOT ANY OTHER UNVERSE! Goddammit!

Damolisher, why can't you get it that we are not talking about one specific continuity. All you are doing is coming in and spouting stuff off to cause trouble. IF you can't contribute without trying to start trouble leave.

How is it causing trouble, you idiot? You've the one who keeps going into Dreamwave overdrive whenever someone mentions another continuity.