The Energon Pub

This may have been on the board before but i digress, yes the Iranians are up in arms over how they are portrayed in the movie saying it is insulting to their heritage. It's banned over there since they ban pretty much every foriegn movie but bootleg DVDs get over so it's passed through the media. Seriously Iran needs to calm down it's like a whiny spoiled child. It's ok (even supported) for Iranians to post anti- West, anti-semite material but when the west posts something that may seem a little offensive to the middle east they are up in arms about it.They think it's propaganda to support war over here, but if they new anything they would realize
a. Historically it's the persians who invaded th greeks so it's the greek opinion of the persians
b.it's a comic book and while historical the events are overly dramatized to gain viewers

With that kind of attitude from the Iranians I really believe that the middle east will be the downfall of man (hopefully Im wrong) because someone is going to take so much offense to something because they cant learn to not take things seriously that their going to take drastic measures that may result in Nuclear War.

Ok, people (including the Iranians) need to remember that the movie isn't completely based on the real battle of Thermopoli (sp?), it's based on Frank Miller's graphic novel which is a fantasy interpretation of the actual battle. It's not meant to be completely historically accurate.

You speak of Iran and the Middle East as though they are two interchangeable places. You may not see it, but that is a big deal to all of the actual different countries and cultures that exist in the Middle East.

And, how exactly is it that you draw the conclusion that they will be the downfall of all humankind?

So, they got overly upset about a film. How is this going to be the starting point of a chain of events that wipes the world of Homo Sapiens???

Iran banning 300 and complaining is insulting to my Greek heritage.

Honestly I'm not surprised they did this.

Predaprince wrote:You speak of Iran and the Middle East as though they are two interchangeable places. You may not see it, but that is a big deal to all of the actual different countries and cultures that exist in the Middle East.

And, how exactly is it that you draw the conclusion that they will be the downfall of all humankind?

So, they got overly upset about a film. How is this going to be the starting point of a chain of events that wipes the world of Homo Sapiens???

No I do recognize that Iran is just a part of the middle east and is not a clear representation of the people living there. I know there are alot of intelligent and good meaning muslims, it's just that some muslims have more fanatical members that are more willing to take actions for stupid things. Remember the drawing of Muhammad that caused riots and bombings. Now i know that Muhammed is sacred but cmon there have been numerous portrayls of Jesus and Moses in a comical light yet we have not seen action taken to such an extreme level.It is the seriousness that they take every little detail about that makes them the downfall of the world you dont think that one day a stupid cartoon or minor offense, may make certain radical groups take so much offense that they may take it as a personal attack. Thhat they may actually set up more bombings in the west even a nuke over a stupid thing as a cartoon or movie. It is that the Middle East has more radicals than some other countries that are willing to draw blood or take serious measures at the slightest offense, thats what I mean.

I'm sure these people have more important things to do.

The ones who are complaining are mostly silly extremists. Of course the Persians aren't portrayed in a favourable light, the movie is told by a Spartan! It'd be surprising if there wasn't a large amount of bias.

This is as silly as Scandinavians seriously being offended by Pathfinder due to the gross inaccuracies in the movie's portrayal of norsemen. Well, if it had been made by Russia, or something.

Sun Runner wrote:Remember the drawing of Muhammad that caused riots and bombings. Now i know that Muhammed is sacred but cmon there have been numerous portrayls of Jesus and Moses in a comical light yet we have not seen action taken to such an extreme level.It is the seriousness that they take every little detail about that makes them the downfall of the world you dont think that one day a stupid cartoon or minor offense, may make certain radical groups take so much offense that they may take it as a personal attack.

I'm not in favor of the Muslim extremists who bomb and kill people, but I think the problem that you are having is that you are comparing a drawing of Muhammed to a drawing of Jesus or Moses. It is strictly against the Muslim faith to depict Muhammed in any manner, which is a lot different from Christianity, Catholicism, and Judaism where not only is alright to depict Jesus or Moses, but it is actually common to see paintings of them.

Again, I'm not in favor of the extremists, but, given that my ex-girlfriend of 4 years is Muslim, I do know enough about the muslim faith to know that we shouldn't compare it directly to the other faiths. I'm not saying that you are stupid or anything, I'm just stating that you are misleading yourself by doing so.

Predaprince wrote:

Sun Runner wrote:Remember the drawing of Muhammad that caused riots and bombings. Now i know that Muhammed is sacred but cmon there have been numerous portrayls of Jesus and Moses in a comical light yet we have not seen action taken to such an extreme level.It is the seriousness that they take every little detail about that makes them the downfall of the world you dont think that one day a stupid cartoon or minor offense, may make certain radical groups take so much offense that they may take it as a personal attack.

I'm not in favor of the Muslim extremists who bomb and kill people, but I think the problem that you are having is that you are comparing a drawing of Muhammed to a drawing of Jesus or Moses. It is strictly against the Muslim faith to depict Muhammed in any manner, which is a lot different from Christianity, Catholicism, and Judaism where not only is alright to depict Jesus or Moses, but it is actually common to see paintings of them.

Again, I'm not in favor of the extremists, but, given that my ex-girlfriend of 4 years is Muslim, I do know enough about the muslim faith to know that we shouldn't compare it directly to the other faiths. I'm not saying that you are stupid or anything, I'm just stating that you are misleading yourself by doing so.

No I know that a predominant amount of muslims are not radical, but I also know their history. I know Muhammed cannot be portrayed but in early christian texts neither could God but many artists have used god in their work and Chistians do not riot about it. I know about Islam I studied it with various other religions in my freshman year of college and i know it's not as evil as any other religion. Christianity and Judaism also says death to non christians or Jews but these religions have seemed to tone down on death to "infidels" much more than Islam has. The thing is Islam has maintained it's cultural roots more than other religions and while that is not a bad thing, it does lead to a more religiously ruled lifestyle where teachings overcome logic sometimes. This leads to irrational throught and leads to actions of violence more than others.

Normally I try to be fair toward Middle Eastern viewpoints, even though they tend to try my patience pretty quickly.

That said:

They should shut the F*** up about this. It doesn't take much to extrapolate some bad behaviour on the Persian's part, considering the fact that Xerxes was a complete and utter lunatic. The whole point of the war was that the Persian Empire was attempting to slaughter Greece in retaliation for Darius' defeat at Marathon (even though he was STILL the aggressor in that case as well...)

What do they expect? Do they want the director to lie, and say that the Persians steamrolled the Spartans, beat Themistocles to a bloody pulp at Salamis, and founded the Roman Empire at the behest of King Arthur?

They should face up to historic fact: Around 300 Spartan warriors gave 200,000 of their best men enough trouble that they believed they were up against an army ten or twenty times that size. And that their king was so impressed by those Spartans, that he ordered proper burial for their remains, and actually punished those who tried to loot the corpses.

And that they lost the war, anyway. But of course, that would threaten their image, even though it was a couple thousand years ago. And even though 'Persia' technically doesn't exist. And even though Islam didn't exist at the time, either.

Kjell wrote:This is as silly as Scandinavians seriously being offended by Pathfinder due to the gross inaccuracies in the movie's portrayal of norsemen. Well, if it had been made by Russia, or something.

*Googles*...

Come on! That has to be one of the stupidest premises ever, even when I'm just seeing this as a historian...

but, it has Vikings in it, and that's good enough, because Vikings are badass. In fact, I'm listening to Amon Amarth right now....

Any way... Persia. Yeah. Get over it-- it's a film. You can not go see a film if you so desire, and, in fact, can do so with no effort on your part. And, as stated, it contains no representation of the people of modern day Iran, because A) it portrays a population whose oldest members are over 25 times younger than the events shown, B) it's from a perspective that would obviously uphold popular sovereignty vs. empire, and C) IT'S BASED ON A COMIC BOOK.

Do modern day Iranians still consider themselves Persians? That's like modern day Italians calling themselves Romans. This is a battle that took place 2000+ years ago. It's silly for any modern day society to connect themselves to a movie that took place so long ago.

I believe that Persian is still commonly spoken in the region. By whom, I don't know, but it's entirely possible that the Iranians consider themselves closer to the Ancient Persians than we would think.

How old something is does not necessarily have any bearing on how relevant some people think it is. I mean... The bible, the tora scrolls and the koran all predate a fair amount of nations.

Sun Runner wrote:

Predaprince wrote:You speak of Iran and the Middle East as though they are two interchangeable places. You may not see it, but that is a big deal to all of the actual different countries and cultures that exist in the Middle East.

And, how exactly is it that you draw the conclusion that they will be the downfall of all humankind?

So, they got overly upset about a film. How is this going to be the starting point of a chain of events that wipes the world of Homo Sapiens???

No I do recognize that Iran is just a part of the middle east and is not a clear representation of the people living there. I know there are alot of intelligent and good meaning muslims, it's just that some muslims have more fanatical members that are more willing to take actions for stupid things. Remember the drawing of Muhammad that caused riots and bombings. Now i know that Muhammed is sacred but cmon there have been numerous portrayls of Jesus and Moses in a comical light yet we have not seen action taken to such an extreme level.It is the seriousness that they take every little detail about that makes them the downfall of the world you dont think that one day a stupid cartoon or minor offense, may make certain radical groups take so much offense that they may take it as a personal attack. Thhat they may actually set up more bombings in the west even a nuke over a stupid thing as a cartoon or movie. It is that the Middle East has more radicals than some other countries that are willing to draw blood or take serious measures at the slightest offense, thats what I mean.

we suddenly skip from talking about Iranians, to talking about muslims, as if the two are interchangable terms, which they are not; Iranian does not equal muslim, and vice versa. just like not all americans are bible thumping, invade 2 countries because a plane flew into a building, creationists.

however a recent BBC program called "Topgear" did some rather interesting research in the deep south, they stuck the slogans "I am Bi" and "country & western Sucks" on thier cars and drove around, not too long afterwards they where fleeing for lives from what i assume where locals. it's quite easy fo someone not to be able to take a joke when the issue is something they care very deeply about.

I very much doubt any person of any country can take the moral highground and dish out phrases like the middle east will downfall of man.

I believe the slogans were more along the lines of "man-love is okay", "western and country is rubbish", something about Hillary Clinton and various other silly little things like that. Some ugly old lady was all "You can't say that here, this is da South" and "Imma gonna get the boys". Cue a pick-up filled with rednecks (there's really no other word to describe the guys in it) arriving and then the Topgear people had to flee for their lives.

Kjell wrote:I believe the slogans were more along the lines of "man-love is okay", "western and country is rubbish", something about Hillary Clinton and various other silly little things like that. Some ugly old lady was all "You can't say that here, this is da South" and "Imma gonna get the boys". Cue a pick-up filled with rednecks (there's really no other word to describe the guys in it) arriving and then the Topgear people had to flee for their lives.

But, how dare those people get upset! Their only slogans! *end sarcasm*

Attempting to assault people who express certain opinions (and on that intellectual level) purely because those opinions are contrary to yours is... stupid. Consider that the slogans were mostly harmless. Saying that NASCAR sucks is not an example of a scathing insult.

It would be stupid if the sides were reversed, too.

The problem is not that they were upset so much as it is that they attempted to use violence to punish those who expressed these opinions.

Kjell wrote:Attempting to assault people who express certain opinions (and on that intellectual level) purely because those opinions are contrary to yours is... stupid. Consider that the slogans were mostly harmless. Saying that NASCAR sucks is not an example of a scathing insult.

It would be stupid if the sides were reversed, too.

The problem is not that they were upset so much as it is that they attempted to use violence to punish those who expressed these opinions.

Well, I think NASCAR sucks but I wouldn't go into deliverance country and say things like NASCAR sucks, put a rainbow sticker
on my car, openly express jungle fever, talk down about American cars or country music. While you call it stupid I call it ignorance.
Certain parts of the south still thinks it will 'Rise Again'. That's probably why I live in the north of the country. Except for the small amount of yokels up here, things are very much more relaxed on those subjects. I would love to see the episode though, it sounds very funny.

Kjell wrote:Attempting to assault people who express certain opinions (and on that intellectual level) purely because those opinions are contrary to yours is... stupid. Consider that the slogans were mostly harmless. Saying that NASCAR sucks is not an example of a scathing insult.

It would be stupid if the sides were reversed, too.

The problem is not that they were upset so much as it is that they attempted to use violence to punish those who expressed these opinions.

thank you for the correction(teach me to rely on secondhand newspapers). and i completely agree, pity this problem seems somewht universal in human culture

Well, I think NASCAR sucks but I wouldn't go into deliverance country and say things like NASCAR sucks, put a rainbow sticker
on my car, openly express jungle fever, talk down about American cars or country music. While you call it stupid I call it ignorance.
Certain parts of the south still thinks it will 'Rise Again'. That's probably why I live in the north of the country. Except for the small amount of yokels up here, things are very much more relaxed on those subjects. I would love to see the episode though, it sounds very funny.

all episodes of topgear are very funny, unless you're an eco-terrorist.

this is the crux of the problem, having an opinion that doesn't really impact on real life, and pretty much stays inside your head is fine, nut when you something is printed in an international newspaper or on international TV it pretty much is driving through redneck country with an "i am bi" bumpersticker.

and yes i am well aware of the irony of using a Topgear to get this message across

To my knowledge many (not all, lots of ethnic groups) people of the modern nation of Iran consider themselves Persian. The country was called that until the revolution that put the current government in place and I've seen several different sources (WSJ ,Discovery ect) that have interviews with Iranians talking about Persian culture. Iran is pretty much the eastern wall of Arab culture and language. At it and farther east most moslims have little Arabic influence.

I'm not surprised.

Hell, I see what they're talking about.

For the Top Gear episode type "top gear america" into youtube...

EDIT:

America summed up in 17 seconds

Car slogans in a hick town....

it is a god damn movie!

also 'people have started to mate with vegatables' was one of the funniest things jeremy clarkson has ever said.

and darth bombshell, your sig is awesome.

Kjell wrote:I believe the slogans were more along the lines of "man-love is okay", "western and country is rubbish", something about Hillary Clinton and various other silly little things like that. Some ugly old lady was all "You can't say that here, this is da South" and "Imma gonna get the boys". Cue a pick-up filled with rednecks (there's really no other word to describe the guys in it) arriving and then the Topgear people had to flee for their lives.

Off-topic, really, I know, but is there a clip of this on the internet?

Why, there is. Do a search on YouTube. That's where I saw it. I'd give you a link if I had it but, well, evidently I don't!