The Energon Pub

Does anyone know what is the real life span of a transformer (Autobot/Decepticon)? Is it 10,000 years, 100,000 years, 1 million years, 10 million years? how long do transformers live?

Also, how are transformers born/created? I mean how do cybertronians give birth to other robots, is it through the All-Spark or Vector Sigma or something else? I saw in the beginning of Transformers The Movie (1986) where there's a planet of robot children so how are Transformers born?

Give me some theories.

Fast_Magma wrote:Does anyone know what is the real life span of a transformer (Autobot/Decepticon)? Is it 10,000 years, 100,000 years, 1 million years, 10 million years? how long do transformers live?

In the original G1 cartoon, Optimus Prime was over 9 million years old, true he spent 4 million of those years in a "turned off" state, but his creator, Alpha Trion, was still alive and presumably running most of those years, and he was much older.

Also, how are transformers born/created?

There are a few different ways over the years.

heres a link to the info.
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Reproduction

I saw in the beginning of Transformers The Movie (1986) where there's a planet of robot children

those guys werent Transformers.

Here we go again

If you want a real answer it's this: over the 27/28 years the franchise has been around, the origin stories have evolved slowly but steadily. Every continuity has a different version, but do keep names and elements of a former. In a nutshell:

G1 Cartoon: Quintessons
G1 Marvel Comics: Primus via the Creation Matrix (the most accepted and widely used)
G2 Marvel Comic: Budding was introduced, which basically means mitosis. You know, asexual reproduction like bacteria?
Robots in Disguise: none given
Armada, Energon, Cybertron: None given, but Primus makes a return, and Unicron of all people created the Mini-Cons)
Live Action Movies: AllSpark Cube, transferred to Matrix of Leadership
Animated: AllSpark (again)

One piece of advice: please keep every continuity, meaning timeline, separate unless you want this to happen: Every few years it gets reset, or rather, a new one is created.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:G1 Cartoon: Quintessons

Or the Transformers themselves can just build new Transformers ("S.O.S. Dinobots", "War of the Dinobots", "Heavy Metal War").

cotss2012 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:G1 Cartoon: Quintessons

Or the Transformers themselves can just build new Transformers ("S.O.S. Dinobots", "War of the Dinobots", "Heavy Metal War").

actually "Heavy metal war" doesnt feature any TF's being created.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

cotss2012 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:G1 Cartoon: Quintessons

Or the Transformers themselves can just build new Transformers ("S.O.S. Dinobots", "War of the Dinobots", "Heavy Metal War").

actually "Heavy metal war" doesnt feature any TF's being created.

I think he means the introduction of the Constructicons, because it was never really explained where they came from in the episode itself.... If that's the right episode I'm thinking of?

Blackmoon wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

cotss2012 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:G1 Cartoon: Quintessons

Or the Transformers themselves can just build new Transformers ("S.O.S. Dinobots", "War of the Dinobots", "Heavy Metal War").

actually "Heavy metal war" doesnt feature any TF's being created.

I think he means the introduction of the Constructicons, because it was never really explained where they came from in the episode itself.... If that's the right episode I'm thinking of?

sounds like the right one

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Blackmoon wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

cotss2012 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:G1 Cartoon: Quintessons

Or the Transformers themselves can just build new Transformers ("S.O.S. Dinobots", "War of the Dinobots", "Heavy Metal War").

actually "Heavy metal war" doesnt feature any TF's being created.

I think he means the introduction of the Constructicons, because it was never really explained where they came from in the episode itself.... If that's the right episode I'm thinking of?

sounds like the right one

In that case I must point a severe continuity error on the writers' part. At first they were indeed created on Earth, but several episodes later, we see them in Cybertron's past, and in Devastator form to boot. Look for Robot Smasher and Omega Surpreme.

Plus, I'm willing to bet that the second set of Autobots were reinforcement in the shape of new arrivals.

Lastly, I will expand, with this:

G1: Quintessons (original creators), Vector Sigma (Stunticons and Aerialbots), building (Dinobots, Technobots)

Ironically, it was Grimlock who built the Technobots

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:In that case I must point a severe continuity error on the writers' part. At first they were indeed created on Earth, but several episodes later, we see them in Cybertron's past, and in Devastator form to boot. Look for Robot Smasher and Omega Surpreme.

sorry but theres no continuity error, severe or minor, at all, Nothing in the episode states that they were "indeed created on Earth" and before you go to the trouble of looking up the episode heres the relevant dialog

"they were worth the time we spent building them here in these caverns"

building is not always synonymous with creating.And the line itself is to vague to infer any definitive meaning.Did he mean he built them from scratch?????, did he mean he built them new bodies????the dialog supports both conclusions.

So, the idea is thern to find evidence from the rest of the episode to try to determine what Megatron meant............and there isint a single peace of evidence in the rest of the episode to indicate that they were newly created robots.

As a matter of fact, theres evidence that the Constructicons were well known to other characters,To begin with , none of the Decepticons expressed any consern in the Constructicons building abilities.Which casn be seen as they knew them well enough to trust them.

Then theres the Autobots, that werent surprised at all by the existence of 6 new decepticons and no shock what so ever at the giant super robot they found fighting the Dinobots.

The Dinos were shocked to see the new characters, the humans were shocked to see Devestator, but all the Autobots acted like he wasnt anything special.And lets not forget that Prime somehow knew Devestators weak point and was able to dissemble him with one shot.

All of this is reasonable evidence to suggest that the Autobots knew who and what the Constructicons were for some timer.

Add that all up and it suggest that Megatron was talking about building them new bodies.

Plus, I'm willing to bet that the second set of Autobots were reinforcement in the shape of new arrivals.

you can choose to see it that way if you like, but dialog, in the episode "Desertion of the Dinobots", indicated all the season 2 bots and cons were on Earth as long as Optimus and the others.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:In that case I must point a severe continuity error on the writers' part. At first they were indeed created on Earth, but several episodes later, we see them in Cybertron's past, and in Devastator form to boot. Look for Robot Smasher and Omega Surpreme.

sorry but theres no continuity error, severe or minor, at all, Nothing in the episode states that they were "indeed created on Earth" and before you go to the trouble of looking up the episode heres the relevant dialog

"they were worth the time we spent building them here in these caverns"

building is not always synonymous with creating.And the line itself is to vague to infer any definitive meaning.Did he mean he built them from scratch?????, did he mean he built them new bodies????the dialog supports both conclusions.

So, the idea is thern to find evidence from the rest of the episode to try to determine what Megatron meant............and there isint a single peace of evidence in the rest of the episode to indicate that they were newly created robots.

As a matter of fact, theres evidence that the Constructicons were well known to other characters,To begin with , none of the Decepticons expressed any consern in the Constructicons building abilities.Which casn be seen as they knew them well enough to trust them.

Then theres the Autobots, that werent surprised at all by the existence of 6 new decepticons and no shock what so ever at the giant super robot they found fighting the Dinobots.

The Dinos were shocked to see the new characters, the humans were shocked to see Devestator, but all the Autobots acted like he wasnt anything special.And lets not forget that Prime somehow knew Devestators weak point and was able to dissemble him with one shot.

All of this is reasonable evidence to suggest that the Autobots knew who and what the Constructicons were for some timer.

Add that all up and it suggest that Megatron was talking about building them new bodies.

Plus, I'm willing to bet that the second set of Autobots were reinforcement in the shape of new arrivals.

you can choose to see it that way if you like, but dialog, in the episode "Desertion of the Dinobots", indicated all the season 2 bots and cons were on Earth as long as Optimus and the others.

I Like your Constructicon theory! Helps me put things into perspective!
Jelze's gonna hate this, but mind if I add onto it?
Maybe he didn't build them new bodies, rather he did what starscream did with the combaticons, or something relevently close to that. Built them working vehicles based on earth technology and scanned their old pent up personalities into the vehicles themselves, transforming them into the constructicons, meaning he did AND he did NOT Build them, both at the same time.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:In that case I must point a severe continuity error on the writers' part. At first they were indeed created on Earth, but several episodes later, we see them in Cybertron's past, and in Devastator form to boot. Look for Robot Smasher and Omega Surpreme.

sorry but theres no continuity error, severe or minor, at all, Nothing in the episode states that they were "indeed created on Earth" and before you go to the trouble of looking up the episode heres the relevant dialog

"they were worth the time we spent building them here in these caverns"

building is not always synonymous with creating.And the line itself is to vague to infer any definitive meaning.Did he mean he built them from scratch?????, did he mean he built them new bodies????the dialog supports both conclusions.

So, the idea is thern to find evidence from the rest of the episode to try to determine what Megatron meant............and there isint a single peace of evidence in the rest of the episode to indicate that they were newly created robots.

As a matter of fact, theres evidence that the Constructicons were well known to other characters,To begin with , none of the Decepticons expressed any consern in the Constructicons building abilities.Which casn be seen as they knew them well enough to trust them.

Then theres the Autobots, that werent surprised at all by the existence of 6 new decepticons and no shock what so ever at the giant super robot they found fighting the Dinobots.

The Dinos were shocked to see the new characters, the humans were shocked to see Devestator, but all the Autobots acted like he wasnt anything special.And lets not forget that Prime somehow knew Devestators weak point and was able to dissemble him with one shot.

All of this is reasonable evidence to suggest that the Autobots knew who and what the Constructicons were for some timer.

Add that all up and it suggest that Megatron was talking about building them new bodies.

Plus, I'm willing to bet that the second set of Autobots were reinforcement in the shape of new arrivals.

you can choose to see it that way if you like, but dialog, in the episode "Desertion of the Dinobots", indicated all the season 2 bots and cons were on Earth as long as Optimus and the others.

I'm very happy with your view on this. I put an old pet peeve of mine to sleep. Constructicons are not new troops, discussion over!

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Armada, Energon, Cybertron: None given, but Primus makes a return, and Unicron of all people created the Mini-Cons)

It's mentioned that they were sent out into the universe
by a "unique digital entity". If memory serves, the Ask Vector Prime section in one of the AllSpark Almanacs says that was Primus as well, and they refer to him multiple times as "the creator". So it's Primus there too.

And to add on to your list, it seems that the Prime/War for Cybertron/Exodus continuity has Primus as their creator, with the AllSpark as the thing that he used to make them. The Quintessons are thrown in for good measure, but seem to have enslaved them rather than made them.

But regarding their actual lifespan, I'd say that they're probably biologically immortal, meaning that they can't die of old age, only when an external force kills them. Vector Prime, for instance, has stated that he's nine billion years old, in other words, almost 3/4 the current age of the universe. (Well, our universe anyway)

Despite this, they seem to show signs of aging in almost every continuity, so it seems like they might have some sort of lifespan, but if they do, it's probably so absurdly long that it would seem like forever. Then again, old age might be more a matter of mindset than physical age, especially considering that Unicron seems to be portrayed as old in Transformers Prime, and I'd have to imagine with his given background that it would be impossible for him to pass away from age.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:One piece of advice: please keep every continuity, meaning timeline, separate unless you want this to happen: Every few years it gets reset, or rather, a new one is created.

Well, that's not entirely being truthful, since it has been stated that Primus exists across all continuities, and presumably created all of the Transformers in some way, shape or form. However, it's so lightly touched upon in fiction and such a confusing and plot-hole inducing concept that most fans are more apt to ignore it outright. There have been at least one or two stories crediting him with creating the G1 cartoon Transformers if nothing else.

Personally, the plot-holes don't bother me, since there are so many of them in the series, what's a couple dozen more? But I'd imagine a lot of fans don't think like that. But alas, this thread isn't about that can of worms...

BeastProwl wrote:I Like your Constructicon theory! Helps me put things into perspective!
Jelze's gonna hate this, but mind if I add onto it?
Maybe he didn't build them new bodies, rather he did what starscream did with the combaticons, or something relevently close to that. Built them working vehicles based on earth technology and scanned their old pent up personalities into the vehicles themselves, transforming them into the constructicons, meaning he did AND he did NOT Build them, both at the same time.

thank you.
I like what you added to it as well, That was one of my MANY theories as well.

RhA wrote:I'm very happy with your view on this. I put an old pet peeve of mine to sleep. Constructicons are not new troops, discussion over!

again, thank you

Kiyza wrote:Well, that's not entirely being truthful, since it has been stated that Primus exists across all continuities, and presumably created all of the Transformers in some way, shape or form.

even thou thats the "official" word, theres reasonable evidence to dismiss it.

There have been at least one or two stories crediting him with creating the G1 cartoon Transformers if nothing else.

and those stories contradict the info we were given in the G1 cartoon itself.

Personally, the plot-holes don't bother me, since there are so many of them in the series, what's a couple dozen more? But I'd imagine a lot of fans don't think like that. But alas, this thread isn't about that can of worms...

I dont let therm bother me either, but I love debating the issues they present.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Blackmoon wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:actually "Heavy metal war" doesnt feature any TF's being created.

I think he means the introduction of the Constructicons, because it was never really explained where they came from in the episode itself.... If that's the right episode I'm thinking of?

sounds like the right one

In HMW, Megatron explicitly states that the Constructicons were "worth the time we spent building them in these caverns".

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:In that case I must point a severe continuity error on the writers' part. At first they were indeed created on Earth, but several episodes later, we see them in Cybertron's past, and in Devastator form to boot.

It's best to just ignore all time-travel or retcon episodes... and the entirety of season 2, for that matter.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:sorry but theres no continuity error, severe or minor, at all, Nothing in the episode states that they were "indeed created on Earth" and before you go to the trouble of looking up the episode heres the relevant dialog

"they were worth the time we spent building them here in these caverns"

building is not always synonymous with creating.And the line itself is to vague to infer any definitive meaning.Did he mean he built them from scratch?????, did he mean he built them new bodies????the dialog supports both conclusions.

You're forgetting something very, very, very important:

This episode was written over a decade before "sparks" were introduced to the TF mythos. The concept of building "new bodies" for pre-existing characters would not have made sense.

cotss2012 wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Blackmoon wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:actually "Heavy metal war" doesnt feature any TF's being created.

I think he means the introduction of the Constructicons, because it was never really explained where they came from in the episode itself.... If that's the right episode I'm thinking of?

sounds like the right one

In HMW, Megatron explicitly states that the Constructicons were "worth the time we spent building them in these caverns".

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:In that case I must point a severe continuity error on the writers' part. At first they were indeed created on Earth, but several episodes later, we see them in Cybertron's past, and in Devastator form to boot.

It's best to just ignore all time-travel or retcon episodes... and the entirety of season 2, for that matter.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:sorry but theres no continuity error, severe or minor, at all, Nothing in the episode states that they were "indeed created on Earth" and before you go to the trouble of looking up the episode heres the relevant dialog

"they were worth the time we spent building them here in these caverns"

building is not always synonymous with creating.And the line itself is to vague to infer any definitive meaning.Did he mean he built them from scratch?????, did he mean he built them new bodies????the dialog supports both conclusions.

You're forgetting something very, very, very important:

This episode was written over a decade before "sparks" were introduced to the TF mythos. The concept of building "new bodies" for pre-existing characters would not have made sense.

but you are forgetting this

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Starscream%27s_Brigade

Forgetting a process that does not involve building anything, and which involves resurrecting Decepticons that Megatron would prefer remain in detention?

Also, were any space bridges functional after The Ultimate Doom and before HMW? No space bridge = no retrieved personality components.

I covered this already.....

cotss2012 wrote:In HMW, Megatron explicitly states that the Constructicons were "worth the time we spent building them in these caverns".

which is not ALWAYS the same thing as explicitly stating that he CREATED them in those caverns.

building is not always synonymous with creating, the dialog in question is vague and ambiguous.

We needed something else to qualify his dialog to define it, and nothing in the episode sugget that they were newly created.

You're forgetting something very, very, very important:

This episode was written over a decade before "sparks" were introduced to the TF mythos. The concept of building "new bodies" for pre-existing characters would not have made sense.

I never brought sparks into this conversation, so I'm not sure why you would bring it us.

And your conclusion is in error.We had already seen characters get damaged and need replacement parts, we saw them build the 5 dinos from scratch.

Both of these examples lend themselves to the concept of building "new bodies" for pre-existing characters, and lets not forget in season 2 we 5 pre-existing characters get new bodies.

Sorry bud, but its make much sense.

cotss2012 wrote:Forgetting a process that does not involve building anything, and which involves resurrecting Decepticons that Megatron would prefer remain in detention?

Sorry, but Starscresam had to have done something to those junked vehicles to accommodate the new forms.

the animation just took a short cut around it and didnt show it.

Also, were any space bridges functional after The Ultimate Doom and before HMW? No space bridge = no retrieved personality components.

not on point, we casnt say if they were functional or not, and no one is suggesting that they went to Cybertron to get personality components.

That wouldnt have been needed because the Constructicons werent on Cybertron, we already know they were in space,on the run from Omega.

Oh I wouldn't say it was that long before Sparks were introduced. In Target 2006, Cyclonus speaks of his own creation saying "Unicron took what had once been LIFESPARK, restoring him, recreating him..."

I know some of you will jump immediately on this saying Lifespark was the bot's name but I don't believe it is. Lifespark doesn't sit right with me as a Decepticon name. I firmly (or furmly, see what I did there?:))believe Furman meant Lifespark as a term akin to what we now know as Sparks.

Plus I find it delicious that a character supposedly from the future would refer to something we wouldn't hear of for at least a decade. Of course, he and Scourge speak of Microbots and we didn't get Micromasters for another 3 years. I'm pretty sure I heard Microbots used to describe Micromaster Autobots at one stage though regrettably I've no evidence to back it up.

As another poster said earlier, I'm happy to ignore Season 2 as well. Terrible animation and things like Alpha Trion, Kremzeek and Lord Chumley ruined that season for me. Pity because I did like the episodes centred around Tracks and the Stunticons.

I've always felt as long as they get upgrades and software patches, Transformers have no real age limit.

Personally I was never happy with millions of years long lifespan. It taks away from any hints of having ancient legends since many of them could have been around. Legends tend to have more weight when none of the current population were around.

I do like that IDW's Thundercracker suggest they only live for thousands of years.

I grew up on Marvel UK TF's and still love that series but I hated taht the Matrix was the only thing that could create TF life. I hated taht the likes of Siren and Hot Rod were anything more than a few thousand years old. Even Nightbeat counts them as the youth element.

G2 also throws uncertainty onto Hot Rod's age as Kup muses Hot Rod's immaturity. He says, "I've always put Hot Rod's brash outbursts down to some sort of youthful immaturity even though as a race, we're all the same age, aren't we?" This suggests that Hot Rod maybe a newer generation Cybertronian which personally I like.

Just on a side note, what G1 characters can we consider younger Transformers? Bear in mind I mean that generally carries from one version of G1 to another. Marvel would have the Stunticons, Aerialbots, Jetfire and Micromaster all created in the last 25 years whereas War Within and War For Cybertron had all of the above around millions of years ago.

I'll throw a few out there and see what you guys think:

Hot Rod
Blurr
Arcee
Siren
Slapdash
Backstreet
Sizzle
Bluestreak
Bumblebee
Sideswipe
Sunstreaker
Skids
Catilla
Needlenose

Fast_Magma wrote:Does anyone know what is the real life span of a transformer (Autobot/Decepticon)? Is it 10,000 years, 100,000 years, 1 million years, 10 million years? how long do transformers live?

This is tough....for example, in the comic continuity Xaaron has been hanging around for a long time and is not necessarily dying from old age.....yet Rodimus seems to be REALLY effing old in Aspects of Evil, which is in the year 2356...only 350 years after he was a "kid".

There are plenty of ways to retcon Rodimus Prime's intense age (for one thing, he had been hanging out for 300 odd years with bits of Unicorn all up inside him...who knows what that does to a bot), but I think it is one of those things they didn't really have a consensus on/care about.

Regarding the Constructicon construction debate; I have always felt it was a continuity glitch that lends itself quite well to retconning. Nothing in the series itself suggests it is an error...however, from the writing styles in other episodes it seems like the kind of thing the writers were usually specific about (i.e. blatantly saying they constructed new bodies). Not much was left to the imagination.

This is my OPINION based on how I perceive the writing. There is *nothing* in the fiction that shows they were constructed cold on Earth. I feel it was most likely a writing error, but it does have a nice explanation that may or may not have been intentional.

Does someone more knowledgable about the Transformers Bible know if it says anything about this?