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Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

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Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Senor Hugo » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:41 pm

Wow, I just watched this. And wow, I knew Tom Cruise had some bats in his belfry, but wow.

This "interview" is so messed up. Tom Cruise is a McDonalds short of a Happy Meal.

This is nuts. It's beyond nuts.

http://factnet.org/?p=225
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Dead Metal » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:04 pm

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Yea seen that one before, as I saw it I decided not to get any of his movies again, I mean people call me crazy while at the same time he is free?
That guy is a total wako!
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Jeep? » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:14 pm

Explain to me again why Scientology is 'crazy' but Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and Shinto are sane. Cause, you know, as a follower of dianetics, I feel I should have been told somewhere along the line.
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Senor Hugo » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:27 pm

Well, for one, I never said Scientology was insane. Tom Cruise on the other hand...

Other than that, seeing as how several people, ranging from journalists, courts, and governments have said that "the Church of Scientology is a cult and an unscrupulous commercial enterprise that harasses its critics and abuses the trust of its members."

Now, I have no problem with anyone following Dianetics and Scientology. You're beliefs are your beliefs, I won't change them.

However, I do have a problem with how Churches treat people or other religions. Not only Scientology, but also Christianity, Catholicism and the like.

If you're a Scientologist/Catholic/Christian etc, good for you, you found a belief system that works for you. However, if your church and it's members start spewing stuff like "if you don't believe in (name) you're going to hell" or starts attacking anyone who disagrees with them, with threats of law suits. I'll be damned if I'm gonna sit quietly and let any church pull bullshit like that.

And that is what the church seems to be doing. They threaten anyone who disagrees with their stance. Tom Cruise and the church seem to think that anyone who doesn't follow Scientology are lunatics and need to be stopped.

Now, as you may have noticed, I've used the term "church" instead of "religion." This is because the church and religion are two different things. The Church is the governing body, the religion is the belief system.

It's the same reason why I consider myself a proud American, I believe in what America stands for. However, I don't believe in our governing body.
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Dead Metal » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:30 pm

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Jeep! wrote:Explain to me again why Scientology is 'crazy' but Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and Shinto are sane. Cause, you know, as a follower of dianetics, I feel I should have been told somewhere along the line.

I never stated that it's crazy, I said he is crazy!
Just look at they way he talks and then laughs!
He is just a crazy person, which doesn't mean all of that belief are crazy.
But in my opinion all religions are nuts. :P
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Senor Hugo » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:55 am

Wow, and to top things off. Thought this was pretty interesting.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/%22Anonymou ... ntology%22

Seems Scientology websites are getting hacked, removed and all that.

While it's nice to see more and more people standing up against Scientology's BS, but deleting the websites is the wrong way to go. It really does give the Church of Scientology the chance to use the martyr card.

Edit Edit: This is getting insane. Apparently the same group who brought down the Scientology websites, has planned a 'raid' on the scientology HQ in London.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/460/ ... 097ig4.jpg
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Archanubis » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:40 am

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I've been looking for information on Scientology of an on, and so far as I can find out, it's basically a cult that targets people whose earning are in the millions, or larger. In otherwords, most of us here wouldn't "qualify." 8)
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Shadowman » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:33 pm

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Senor Hugo wrote:Wow, and to top things off. Thought this was pretty interesting.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/%22Anonymou ... ntology%22

Seems Scientology websites are getting hacked, removed and all that.

While it's nice to see more and more people standing up against Scientology's BS, but deleting the websites is the wrong way to go. It really does give the Church of Scientology the chance to use the martyr card.

Edit Edit: This is getting insane. Apparently the same group who brought down the Scientology websites, has planned a 'raid' on the scientology HQ in London.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/460/ ... 097ig4.jpg


Wow, what a bunch of nutjobs. Not just Scientology, but these "Anonymous" wackos. Claiming that Scientology subverts free speech...and then going on to themselves subvert Freedom of Religion.

Which is worse, getting a little wacko about what you perceive as Slander, or attempting to tell people they can't be part of a religion just because you don't like it?
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Archanubis » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:22 pm

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From what I've heard (and granted, that fairly limited), I'm not so convinced that Scientology is so much a religion as it is a cult dedicated to ripping off its members. I've course, I've only heard one side of the story, and judging by a recent radio interview that occured in the last couple weeks, it doesn't look like the Scientology reps have any interest in defending their group (or facing their critics).
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Dr. Caelus » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:50 pm

Senor Hugo wrote:Other than that, seeing as how several people, ranging from journalists, courts, and governments have said that "the Church of Scientology is a cult and an unscrupulous commercial enterprise that harasses its critics and abuses the trust of its members."



Just for those curious:

Cult (also called new religious movement)

A group typically characterized by (1) distinctive ritual and beliefs related to its devotion to a god or a person, (2) isolation from the surrounding "evil" culture, and (3) a charismatic leader. (A sect, by contrast, is a spinoff from a major religion.)

Examples of cults:

Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church - "Sun Myung Moon's mixture of Christianity, anticommunism, and glorification of Moon himself as a new messiah attracted a worldwide following. In response to Moon's declaration, 'What I wish must be your wish,' many people committed themselves and their incomes to the Unification Church."

Jim Jones's People's Temple - "In 1978 in Guyana, 914 disciples of Jim Jones, who had followed him there from San Francisco, shocked the world when they died by following his order to down a suicidal grape drink laced with tranquilizers, painkillers, and a lethal dose of cyanide."

David Koresh's Branch of Davidians - "In 1993, high-school dropout David Koresh used his talent for memorizing Scripture and mesmerizing people to seize control of a faction of a sect called the Branch Davidians. Over time, members were gradually relieved of their bank accounts and possessions. Koresh also persuaded the men to live celibately while he slept with their wives and daughters, and he convinced his 19 "wives" that they should bear his children."

Marshall Applewhite's Heaven's Gate - "Marshall Applewhite was not similarly tempted to command sexual favors. Having been fired from two music teaching jobs for homosexual affairs with students, he sought sexless devotion by castration, as had 7 of the other 17 Heaven's Gate men who died with him (Chua-Eoan, 1997; Gardner, 1997). While in a psychiatric hospital in 1971, Applewhite had linked up with nurse and astrology dabbler Bonnie Lu Nettles, who gave the intense and charismatic Applewhite a cosmological vision of a route to "the next level." Preaching with passion, he persuaded his followers to renounce families, sex, drugs, and personal money with promises of a spaceship voyage to salvation."


- David G. Myers, Social Psychology, p272-273

And the book goes on to discuss the recruitment and initiation techniques of cults and military forces as examples of high-power indoctrination systems.

Of course, those who've read up on the Church of Scientology's somewhat dodgy history may be tempted to draw parallels between the church and new religious movements. They may also be tempted to draw parallels between the Roman Catholic Church of the Dark ages, or the Puritans of Salem, and cults, depending on what they choose to see and what they choose to ignore.

And of course, something else a person might want to consider when weighing the credibility of a religion is the credibility of its founder. Ask questions like: did he have a good track record of honesty and humanitarianism before he came up with this religion? If not, is the religion inspired by vigorous retrospection and atonment for his past history, or has it seemingly just come out of nowhere? Is the leader conveniently profiting off of his religion in the form of material or sexual gain?
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Shadowman » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:09 pm

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Caelus wrote:Is the leader conveniently profiting off of his religion in the form of material or sexual gain?


I wouldn't refer to him in the present-tense. L. Ron Hubbard has been dead since the '80s.
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Senor Hugo » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:15 pm

Shadowman wrote:
Caelus wrote:Is the leader conveniently profiting off of his religion in the form of material or sexual gain?


I wouldn't refer to him in the present-tense. L. Ron Hubbard has been dead since the '80s.


Well, L. Ron was the leader and founder. David Miscavige is the chairman of the Religious Technology Center, and the Church of Scientology is run by Heber Jentzsch, at least according to Wikipedia.

So the same questions can be applied to those guys, not to mention the deeds in life can be applied to L. Ron.
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Dr. Caelus » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:51 pm

Shadowman wrote:
Caelus wrote:Is the leader conveniently profiting off of his religion in the form of material or sexual gain?


I wouldn't refer to him in the present-tense. L. Ron Hubbard has been dead since the '80s.



Why, whatever would make you think I was referring specifically to Hubbard when I wrote that? ;;)
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Jeep? » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:46 pm

Thunderscream wrote:I've been looking for information on Scientology of an on, and so far as I can find out, it's basically a cult that targets people whose earning are in the millions, or larger. In otherwords, most of us here wouldn't "qualify." 8)


Actually, the money only comes into getting into the higher levels of Scientology. Compare it to the Catholic Church, where reaching their higher levels takes oaths of chastity, years or devotion, and a big ol' "who's gonna die next?" lottery. Probably helps to consider that Scientology has paid ministers (I don't know what the official term is, I'd need to ask them next time I drop by) unlike a lot of faiths. I wouldn't call it a cult any more than Presbyterianism or Judaism.

Also, I have to add in that Presbyterians are awesome where I live. They give out free lunch and make me coffee when I'm drunk.
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Senor Hugo » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:09 am

Jeep! wrote:
Thunderscream wrote:I've been looking for information on Scientology of an on, and so far as I can find out, it's basically a cult that targets people whose earning are in the millions, or larger. In otherwords, most of us here wouldn't "qualify." 8)


Actually, the money only comes into getting into the higher levels of Scientology. Compare it to the Catholic Church, where reaching their higher levels takes oaths of chastity, years or devotion, and a big ol' "who's gonna die next?" lottery. Probably helps to consider that Scientology has paid ministers (I don't know what the official term is, I'd need to ask them next time I drop by) unlike a lot of faiths. I wouldn't call it a cult any more than Presbyterianism or Judaism.

Also, I have to add in that Presbyterians are awesome where I live. They give out free lunch and make me coffee when I'm drunk.



Ok, well since you are a follower of Dianetics, we can get some answers straight from the proverbial horses mouth, or as close to it as we can get anyway. So don't take these as bashes of any sort. I just want to get information and have any misconceptions I may have cleared up.

You said money comes in, when trying to achieve a higher rank in scientology. So is it not based on a effort system like the boy-scouts, if you pay the cash you automatically get bumped up?

I've read on a lot of places, Scientology has you follow orders unquestioningly, which is one of the bigger problems people seem to have with Scientology, is this the actual case? If Tom Cruise asks you to shine his shoes, or make him a sandwich, are you made to, with penalties for not doing so, encouraged to etc?

Also, as a side note, I know several churches end up paying their preachers, especially if the minister or priest or what not has to relocate for the church. Such was the case for the father of my families Greek Orthodox Church, he found a better paying job out at anther church, so he relocated, and we got a relatively new one. But may not be the case for all of the religions.
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby AfterImage » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:50 pm

Man, where was a resident Scientologist when we needed one back on the Philosopher's Forum topic?

Anyway:
http://www.xenu.net/
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/

We'll start here.
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Me, Grimlock! » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:40 am

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I stopped caring about what Tom Cruise does a long time ago. In fact, I'd rather not hear about that guy ever again.

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So all the time? 8)
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Jeep? » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:20 pm

Senor Hugo wrote:
Jeep! wrote:
Thunderscream wrote:I've been looking for information on Scientology of an on, and so far as I can find out, it's basically a cult that targets people whose earning are in the millions, or larger. In otherwords, most of us here wouldn't "qualify." 8)


Actually, the money only comes into getting into the higher levels of Scientology. Compare it to the Catholic Church, where reaching their higher levels takes oaths of chastity, years or devotion, and a big ol' "who's gonna die next?" lottery. Probably helps to consider that Scientology has paid ministers (I don't know what the official term is, I'd need to ask them next time I drop by) unlike a lot of faiths. I wouldn't call it a cult any more than Presbyterianism or Judaism.

Also, I have to add in that Presbyterians are awesome where I live. They give out free lunch and make me coffee when I'm drunk.



Ok, well since you are a follower of Dianetics, we can get some answers straight from the proverbial horses mouth, or as close to it as we can get anyway. So don't take these as bashes of any sort. I just want to get information and have any misconceptions I may have cleared up.

You said money comes in, when trying to achieve a higher rank in scientology. So is it not based on a effort system like the boy-scouts, if you pay the cash you automatically get bumped up?

I've read on a lot of places, Scientology has you follow orders unquestioningly, which is one of the bigger problems people seem to have with Scientology, is this the actual case? If Tom Cruise asks you to shine his shoes, or make him a sandwich, are you made to, with penalties for not doing so, encouraged to etc?

Also, as a side note, I know several churches end up paying their preachers, especially if the minister or priest or what not has to relocate for the church. Such was the case for the father of my families Greek Orthodox Church, he found a better paying job out at anther church, so he relocated, and we got a relatively new one. But may not be the case for all of the religions.


It's not an automatic "bumping up", you pay to go through a lot of what's called Dianetics auditing, it's a type of therapy that forms the basis of Dianetics - and, as such, Scientology. And becuase there's hours and hours (I think some levels amount to thirty-plus hours of auditing) of this, that's where the money's going. Someone's got to train the auditor, after all, and the auditor's getting paid too. You'd probably pay less for a session with a therapist, and I don't know if that leaves you feeling any better about yourself, but I know that an audit does. So it's almost like paying to go on a course which qualifies you to move up.

As for the following orders thing, I couldn't say 100%. I mean, maybe in the higher-up levels there's things that need to be following unquestioningly. There's a lot of confidentiality, so I think that's tied in with it. And Tom Cruise really doesn't have any more power in Scientology than anyone else at his level would, he just happens to be a very famous follower of it. But, to be fair, if a millionaire Hollywood movie asked me for a sammich, I'd be inclined to make them one.
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby AfterImage » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:05 pm

This page seems to have a fairly comprehensive price list up to high Operating Thetan level.
http://www.xenu.net/archive/prices.html

I've heard that the price of Auditing is exhorbitantly high. What sort of range are we looking at here? Also, does the auditing you attend make substantial use of the E-meter?
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Re: Tom Cruise and Scientology Video

Postby Raven Guard » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:13 pm

Whoa What the hell was tom cruse saying in that video?Its like he was pulling random words out of the dictionary and chattering.
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