The Energon Pub

Robinson wrote:

Nico wrote:Jazz died because he was black...thats so dumb! Jazz is cool but NO! he has to die because black usually dies in Hollywood production!

Killing Jazz is a dumb move!

Let me ask thsi ONE more time.

How can a Silver robot be "Black"?

It is a robot, I repeat a robot.














One more time. A Robot

It's not an issue of actual color, but an issue of stereotype.

He was ethnically black by design. He breakdances. He uses colloquialisms equated with "hip hop culture".

Not only is Jazz an ethnic stereotype, but there are a couple more in this movie. The fact that Bobby Bolivia calls his mother "Mammy" should be an insult in itself. Al Jolson, a white jazz singer, was the man who used to sing Mammy while wearing blackface paint (a black painted face with big white lips). Also, in a bizarre twist, the only spanish speaking person in the movie is forceful about speaking spanish, while at the same time lamenting on how he misses eating Alligators.

devast8or wrote:since when are op & meg brothers?

I am totally sure that they are not. When he said "Brother",
he simply meant that he was a transformer like himself. Optimus Prime's only brother that I know of is Ultra Magnus.
And that was only in R.I.D.

UltraMagnus 72927 wrote:

devast8or wrote:since when are op & meg brothers?

I am totally sure that they are not. When he said "Brother",
he simply meant that he was a transformer like himself. Optimus Prime's only brother that I know of is Ultra Magnus.
And that was only in R.I.D.

Not if you read the leaked script. They're supposed to be brothers.

Kronos wrote:

UltraMagnus 72927 wrote:

devast8or wrote:since when are op & meg brothers?

I am totally sure that they are not. When he said "Brother",
he simply meant that he was a transformer like himself. Optimus Prime's only brother that I know of is Ultra Magnus.
And that was only in R.I.D.

Not if you read the leaked script. They're supposed to be brothers.

I'm pretty sure I read the WHOLE script, but I guess I missed that part.

I liked the way they interpreted it for the movie because it did leave it open for debate. Instead of saying "My brother"..he just says "brother". Hell, they could've done it Hogan-esque!

Kronos wrote:I liked the way they interpreted it for the movie because it did leave it open for debate. Instead of saying "My brother"..he just says "brother". Hell, they could've done it Hogan-esque!

Since I missed the "brother" part, could you tell me why they are brothers instead of Prime and Ultra Magnus?

Hot Rod wrote:It irks me how Jazz was, in a fraction of a second out of the blue, pulled apart in something that looked like a CGI cartoon character pulling the head off of a barbie doll.

I did not like that one bit. I was like, "WTF? Is that IT? Is that all?"

At that point I was just starting to like Jazz, too. So the fact that they just pulled him into 2 pieces out of no where really sucked all the life out of it. If they had let him be the hero and then done it in a later scene, with more of a fight going on between the 2, it might have worked better. I felt it was very poorly done.

I also don't understand how you could be mortal enemies with you're brother. And why would you make the 2 biggest enemies in Transformers history Brothers? Lame.

EXACTLY! Besides, Prime used to work for Megatron as Orion Pax before he got severely wounded by megatron.

I hope I'm the first one to point this out...

1986 Movie:
- Ironhide, Ratchet and Prime die
- Jazz and Bumblebee are fine

2007 Movie
- Ironhide, Ratchet and Prime are fine
- Jazz dies, Bumblebee gets his legs blown off

Maybe instead of 'racism' we can look at the casualties as 'turn=taking'...?

edit - I put 1984 instead of '86 at first...

prowl 4 mvp wrote:I hope I'm the first one to point this out...

1984 Movie:
- Ironhide, Ratchet and Prime die
- Jazz and Bumblebee are fine

2007 Movie
- Ironhide, Ratchet and Prime are fine
- Jazz dies, Bumblebee gets his legs blown off
Then gets them repaired

Maybe instead of 'racism' we can look at the casualties as 'turn=taking'...? :-?

Sure, works for me. Besides, in the vast world of Transformers, there is no need for racism. Period.

UltraMagnus 72927 wrote: EXACTLY! Besides, Prime used to work for Megatron as Orion Pax before he got severely wounded by megatron.

Ummmmm, where did this come about? If you're referring to the original cartoon, no he didn't. Was this part of a prequel comic or something? Because I didn't read them.

Kronos wrote:

Robinson wrote:

Nico wrote:Jazz died because he was black...thats so dumb! Jazz is cool but NO! he has to die because black usually dies in Hollywood production!

Killing Jazz is a dumb move!

Let me ask thsi ONE more time.

How can a Silver robot be "Black"?

It is a robot, I repeat a robot.




One more time. A Robot

It's not an issue of actual color, but an issue of stereotype.

He breakdances. He uses colloquialisms equated with "hip hop culture".

So does Jamie Kennedy

Robinson wrote:

Kronos wrote:

Robinson wrote:

Nico wrote:Jazz died because he was black...thats so dumb! Jazz is cool but NO! he has to die because black usually dies in Hollywood production!

Killing Jazz is a dumb move!

Let me ask thsi ONE more time.

How can a Silver robot be "Black"?

It is a robot, I repeat a robot.




One more time. A Robot

It's not an issue of actual color, but an issue of stereotype.

He breakdances. He uses colloquialisms equated with "hip hop culture".

So does Jamie Kennedy

Ugh. Jamie Kennedy=PARODY. Don't even think about Eminem. That's the exception. You'd have to be blind not to see the stereotype. Also, if you've seen my other posts on this subject, there's other racial stereotypes in the movie, one that I was surprised no one brought up-Bobby Bolivia calling his mother "Mammy". If you don't understand why, read about Al Jolson.

UltraMagnus 72927 wrote:

Kronos wrote:I liked the way they interpreted it for the movie because it did leave it open for debate. Instead of saying "My brother"..he just says "brother". Hell, they could've done it Hogan-esque!

Since I missed the "brother" part, could you tell me why they are brothers instead of Prime and Ultra Magnus?

The popular theory is so that it adds more gravitas to the fact that Megatron had to be killed.

Kronos wrote:

Robinson wrote:

Kronos wrote:

Robinson wrote:

Nico wrote:Jazz died because he was black...thats so dumb! Jazz is cool but NO! he has to die because black usually dies in Hollywood production!

Killing Jazz is a dumb move!

Let me ask thsi ONE more time.

How can a Silver robot be "Black"?

It is a robot, I repeat a robot.




One more time. A Robot

It's not an issue of actual color, but an issue of stereotype.

He breakdances. He uses colloquialisms equated with "hip hop culture".

So does Jamie Kennedy

Ugh. Jamie Kennedy=PARODY. Don't even think about Eminem. That's the exception. You'd have to be blind not to see the stereotype. Also, if you've seen my other posts on this subject, there's other racial stereotypes in the movie, one that I was surprised no one brought up-Bobby Bolivia calling his mother "Mammy". If you don't understand why, read about Al Jolson.

Okay, so you just said it.
A Transformer cannot be black, simply because...well, he's a friggin' robot...you can't get more basic than that. Just like there cannot be a hispanic robot, or white robot. Skin color is inapplicable.
But using your own references, Jazz is emulating that behavior which he learned from the internet. Just because you're acting "black" doesn't make you black. You just called out Jamie Kennedy for that. So there's your response.

I won't argue with you about black behavior throughout the movie was one big stereotype, but then so is the movie "Friday".

There are no stereotypes to people who dont automatically assume racial intent or overtones. If you watch the movie for what it is which is 2 robot teams fighting and a couple kids caught in the mix then theres nothing racial abut the movie.

Loki120 wrote:

Kronos wrote:

Robinson wrote:

Kronos wrote:

Robinson wrote:

Nico wrote:Jazz died because he was black...thats so dumb! Jazz is cool but NO! he has to die because black usually dies in Hollywood production!

Killing Jazz is a dumb move!

Let me ask thsi ONE more time.

How can a Silver robot be "Black"?

It is a robot, I repeat a robot.




One more time. A Robot

It's not an issue of actual color, but an issue of stereotype.

He breakdances. He uses colloquialisms equated with "hip hop culture".

So does Jamie Kennedy

Ugh. Jamie Kennedy=PARODY. Don't even think about Eminem. That's the exception. You'd have to be blind not to see the stereotype. Also, if you've seen my other posts on this subject, there's other racial stereotypes in the movie, one that I was surprised no one brought up-Bobby Bolivia calling his mother "Mammy". If you don't understand why, read about Al Jolson.

Okay, so you just said it.
A Transformer cannot be black, simply because...well, he's a friggin' robot...you can't get more basic than that. Just like there cannot be a hispanic robot, or white robot. Skin color is inapplicable.
But using your own references, Jazz is emulating that behavior which he learned from the internet. Just because you're acting "black" doesn't make you black. You just called out Jamie Kennedy for that. So there's your response.

I won't argue with you about black behavior throughout the movie was one big stereotype, but then so is the movie "Friday".

Well met. You're right about that.

@Robinson...

While I rescind what I said about Jazz, your last comment should be addressed.

Have you ever watched Chappelle's Show? While it was a hilarious show, and I loved it immensely, it had strong racial overtones. Now, that being said, it does not mean that I already assumed racial intent when I saw it.

There was a skit that was on that show where Dave made fun of the WB network. He had the frog singing "Mammy". He then went on to talk about how that frog was a racist representation, since it sang in an Al Jolson-esque voice, and the WB at the time's demographic was young blacks.

To ignore some of the stereotypes in this movie is something I chose not to do. It's blatant. Maybe you just missed it, but there's a lot of stereotypes in the movie.

Here's a comparison for you to think about:

Morpheus in the Matrix was a great leader. He had an important role in the movies. Not once did you see him make any "step and fetch" type statements, and didn't fit into any racial stereotypes.

Jules in Pulp Fiction was a criminal in the movie. He cursed a lot. But, meanwhile, he still was a well thought out, and believable character. No stereotyping in his character at all.

Now compare them to almost all of the black characters in the Transformers movie, and tell me that there's no stereotype?