The Energon Pub

Shadowman wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Optimus for a long time has been a Messianic Archetype, a great leader who dies only to return during his people's darkest hour to lead them to victory. Direct parallel's with Jesus (read: Christian symbolism like the cross) aren't necessarily required for this.

The only problem with that, despite the fact that he shares ZERO direct parallels with Jesus, is that he also wasn't a Messiah, since a Messiah is a spiritual redeemer.

You may recall that Prime hasn't redeemed anyone of anything by dying or resurrecting. When he comes back, the Decepticons are still there and the War rages on. And before you say it, the Hate Plague could have been resolved by Rodimus.

Prime sacrificed himself to save Sam, who is motivated to go on the quest to discover the meaning of the Cybertronian symbols in his head. This leads to him discovering the Matrix and ressurecting Prime, who goes on to defeat the Fallen and save humanity.

As I said, there don't need to be direct parallels to Jesus, or for the salvation to be strictly spiritual for a Messanic Archetype to work in fiction.

Also, I wouldn't trust Rodimus with a pea shooter, let alone the Matrix of Leadership. But that's just my jaded opinion. ;P

Capt.Failure wrote:Prime sacrificed himself to save Sam,

Prime didn't sacrifice himself to save Sam, he died attempting to protect him from Megatron. In fact, it was the rest of the Autobots who saved Sam. Had they not had their Big Damn Heroes moment, Megatron would have picked up Sam and left.

In short, sacrificing himself would mean he intended to die.

Capt.Failure wrote:who is motivated to go on the quest to discover the meaning of the Cybertronian symbols in his head.

Something he was already doing.

Capt.Failure wrote:This leads to him discovering the Matrix and ressurecting Prime, who goes on to defeat the Fallen and save humanity.

And if Megatron didn't kill him, there would have been no need to find the Sun Harvester.

Capt.Failure wrote:As I said, there don't need to be direct parallels to Jesus, or for the salvation to be strictly spiritual for a Messanic Archetype to work in fiction.

Yeah, if you ignore that he is in no way similar a messiah, he's just like a messiah.

Capt.Failure wrote:Also, I wouldn't trust Rodimus with a pea shooter, let alone the Matrix of Leadership. But that's just my jaded opinion. ;P

And yet Unicron is just a disembodied head...

A few possible religious similarities don't rescue what ultimately was a poor exercise in film making.... most CERTAINLY in the scripting department. I'm up for heads down rock n roll action all day, yet found myself getting annoyed watching ROTF...that shouldn't happen.

Shadowman wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Also, I wouldn't trust Rodimus with a pea shooter, let alone the Matrix of Leadership. But that's just my jaded opinion. ;P

And yet Unicron is just a disembodied head...

But only Prime was able to light their darkest hour...AGAIN!!! (Rage Plague)

Kohdok wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Also, I wouldn't trust Rodimus with a pea shooter, let alone the Matrix of Leadership. But that's just my jaded opinion. ;P

And yet Unicron is just a disembodied head...

But only Prime was able to light their darkest hour...AGAIN!!! (Rage Plague)

Which, as stated before, could have been solved by Rodimus.

Shadowman wrote:

Kohdok wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Also, I wouldn't trust Rodimus with a pea shooter, let alone the Matrix of Leadership. But that's just my jaded opinion. ;P

And yet Unicron is just a disembodied head...

But only Prime was able to light their darkest hour...AGAIN!!! (Rage Plague)

Which, as stated before, could have been solved by Rodimus.

But wasn't, because he's an idiot.

Kohdok wrote:But wasn't, because he's an idiot.

In his defense, it wasn't an entirely obvious answer. By the time anyone realized that he'd have to dive into the Matrix and ask Alpha Trion what to do, Rodimus was already infected.

I don't have high hopes for it, but it will probably make a lot of money. Doesn't mean it will be a good movie, though. I don't know how they're gonna explain Mikaela suddenly being replaced by Bimbo!Carly.

God Thundercracker wrote:I don't have high hopes for it, but it will probably make a lot of money. Doesn't mean it will be a good movie, though. I don't know how they're gonna explain Mikaela suddenly being replaced by Bimbo!Carly.

Just have some random building(or car from a distance.) get blown up by Decepticons and say she was in it. Mikaela is dead then without having Megan Fox ever being shown.(or say they broke up off camera but that seems rather weak after all crap they endured in the last two films. Death seems like a better and more plausible option to ending their relationship.) Carly then meets Sam and they start a new relationship. Doesn't seem to hard to handle to me. It's not like they're just recasting someone else as Mikaela with looks nothing like her. They've already stated she will be a new character.

Unless Carly is just amazing in the trailer, I think a lot of people are gonna be out without MF

YRQRM0 wrote:Unless Carly is just amazing in the trailer, I think a lot of people are gonna be out without MF

Yeah, forget giant robots fighting each other. If it doesn't have the eye candy that couldn't act to save her life Megan Fox, this movie isn't worth it.

I know, who gives a toss about her, im goin to watch Transformers, just keep her screentime to a limit and i'll be happy.

SEXFIGHTER wrote:I know, who gives a toss about her, im goin to watch Transformers, just keep her screentime to a limit and i'll be happy.

I'm with him on this one. I don't think lack of Megan Fox is going be a dealbreaker. I mean Jonah Hex had her in it and it still bombed horribly. I don't think I've ever gone to see an action film based off of whether or not the lead female was played by a certain actoress. I doubt it's going phase any transformers fans. This movie might have hang ups but this won't be one of them.

I doubt it will tank, but it will probably be the most retarded film in human history.

actually after the slagging ROTF got i reckon the third one will be alright.

helps BIG TIME theres no writers strike this time too.

it still will have **** all to do with transformers beyond prime and the name but i dont see it sucking let alone tanking.

hell if the second one could do as well as it did the third should be a shoe in if its even minorly better.

Lastjustice wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:I know, who gives a toss about her, im goin to watch Transformers, just keep her screentime to a limit and i'll be happy.

I'm with him on this one. I don't think lack of Megan Fox is going be a dealbreaker. I mean Jonah Hex had her in it and it still bombed horribly. I don't think I've ever gone to see an action film based off of whether or not the lead female was played by a certain actoress. I doubt it's going phase any transformers fans. This movie might have hang ups but this won't be one of them.

I saw TransFormers 1 because it was TRANSFORMERS, I saw ROTF because yet again it was TransFormers, I really don't care about the actors because I'm not seeing it for the humans anyways.

but it will probably be the most retarded film in human history

Zardoz.
It is actually so bad that I really, REALLY, advise against it.
It's the only movie I started and just walked out of the room on.
Plus, it's not exactly appropriate which I didn't know going into it, thought it was just some corny 70's movie that I'd watch for laughs...

Don't waste your life watching it.

partholon wrote:actually after the slagging ROTF got i reckon the third one will be alright.

helps BIG TIME theres no writers strike this time too.

hell if the second one could do as well as it did the third should be a shoe in if its even minorly better.

I dont think enough people give ROTF a break for the writers strike. You could say oh why didn't Bay just stop and do nothing till was over, but then you wouldn't really grasp how the process works.

Michael Bay in a big project like this is alot like Wile E. Coyote. Once he's strapped to his rocket and lit the wick there's no turning back. He has a short time to get whatever he is going do right or he crashes and burns.

Too many things were already in motion when the striker happened. Hasbro is making toys that need to find their way to the shelves in time. They lose money for them just sitting around taking up space in warehouses. Michael Bay has already lined up tons of locations and people do stuff. This especially a problem with miltary units such as Air craft carriers you don't get access to those easily. Bay basically had to juggle all this and had only about a third of the script to work with.

I actually think the man and his team deserves credit for making the movie as good as he did. The hint of various subplots was there, but unfortunately they got glossed over due to the script not being as well thought out and rushed. (or even there for part of the time.) I venture guess the dumb humor would have gotten downplayed and we'd seen a bit tighter film had there never beena writer's strike.

The Writer Strike might been a few years ago and people aren't really remembering just how devastating it was to the entertainment industry. All the talk shows like Leno and Letterman went into reruns because they wouldn't dare to try do what Bay did. It's too massive of a risk. Shows like Heroes took major dives in quality.(which it never really recovered from.) It was a big deal.

Does that mean we should take lower quality this time around because we're feeling generous with our money? Absolutely not. I expect them to deliever a tad better product this time. I think everyone on board knew they didn't quite give the movie they wanted. They want to redeem themselves this time. Between having a writer whom is overall more talented than the last two and no strike. I think they'll have the time to really get it right as they took extra time shooting in chicago. It won't be a rush job. Even with the minor setbacks like Barricade getting his revenge on bumble bee. (the cop car crash.)

This is a movie everyone wants to be great, Hasbro, the fans, the crew making it. It can't be stopped that easily as you just feel something genuinely different about this time. Ultimately we'll see for ourselves come july.

Look we have no right to judge a film that isnt even due out for the next 10 months. Also we know dont know what really is what and everything going on right now should be treated as rumors for now.

I do believe some things such as character confirmations such as the new bots on each teams.

But I do not believe other things such as the names of the characters because they have yet to be revealed from the source.

We know nothing on the story plot or how it will come about and together.

So quit dogging Bay and cut him some slack until we see trailers and learn more on TF 3.

Everything going on right now are just rumors and should be treated like a grain of salt nothing is known until is revealed.

Like on Prime we know nothing about it's official date just a speculated date of later November or in December however this has yet to be confirmed.

People dogging things before it is finished is also pointless until we see the final product we have no right to judge it until we seen it in action then we can bash it to death if we hate it.

Look I think Prime & TF 3 are headed into the right directions I like what I see of both. But I have no right to judge them until I see Prime or trailers of TF 3.

I wont give my reviews until I see TF 3 in trailers or see it in Theaters next year. I wont review Prime until I see the 1st few episodes either.

So I say wait and see and find out for your self if you think TF 3 or Prime Will Tank.

Look on people gripping about Prime's Face that is just during dioluge but when he is in Battle Mode he will have the Battle Mask.

Rodimus2006 wrote:So quit dogging Bay and cut him some slack until we see trailers and learn more on TF 3.

I know you've been here for the first two movies. I thought you'd have learned by now that what you're saying here can never work. People aren't going to stop giving flak to Bay, ever. They don't want to learn more, because they didn't like the first two, they won't like the third one.

This is the third round of the Movie Wars, and this time around, I'm just going to sit back, and accept that Haters gonna hate.

I actually liked the 1st 2 films probably one of the few who actually did I saw nothing wrong with either film.

I know 3 will be just as good and hopefully bring Transformers to a good conclusion but leave it hanging for either a 4th if possible or a new director can reboot the franshise but that wont happen for years to come assuming we survive 2012.

So for now I am just going to set back and enjoy 3 and watch Prime which I know will also be good to.

Only things I have ever hated in Transformers was RID & Beast Machines but after a while RID grew on me and got really good towards the end while Beast Machines to me was to preachy and they turned Optimus into a Preachy wuss.

He wasnt hardcore like he was in Beast Wars.

I cant wait to see how Prime will be in Prime a young commander, a rookie, I cant wait to see how Prime will be also curious more on Starcream and Arcee one of my favs.