The Energon Pub

Autobot032 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:And they interviewed a real scientist who actually teaches at a University and he stated that considering all scientific facts the world can be no older than 6 to 10 thousand years at the maximum

I don't know how old the planet is, so I won't even try and slap a number on it, but here's something to think about...

IF (IF!) the world is 6-10,000 years old, what does that say for us? We sure do know how to tear the crap out of the world around us, eh?

Of course we know how to blow stuff up good.
And last I heard the earth was around 4 billion years old.

Dead Metal wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:And they interviewed a real scientist who actually teaches at a University and he stated that considering all scientific facts the world can be no older than 6 to 10 thousand years at the maximum

I don't know how old the planet is, so I won't even try and slap a number on it, but here's something to think about...

IF (IF!) the world is 6-10,000 years old, what does that say for us? We sure do know how to tear the crap out of the world around us, eh?

Of course we know how to blow stuff up good.
And last I heard the earth was around 4 billion years old.

Michael Bay is living proof that we know how to blow stuff up.
And it is good.

Dead Metal wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:And they interviewed a real scientist who actually teaches at a University and he stated that considering all scientific facts the world can be no older than 6 to 10 thousand years at the maximum

I don't know how old the planet is, so I won't even try and slap a number on it, but here's something to think about...

IF (IF!) the world is 6-10,000 years old, what does that say for us? We sure do know how to tear the crap out of the world around us, eh?

Of course we know how to blow stuff up good.
And last I heard the earth was around 4 billion years old.

Correction, 4.5 Billion. And that .5 billion really counts. A lot happens in 500 million years. Death of the dinosaurs. Dawn of man. Birth of America. Invention of Beer. You get the idea.

Shadowman wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:And they interviewed a real scientist who actually teaches at a University and he stated that considering all scientific facts the world can be no older than 6 to 10 thousand years at the maximum

I don't know how old the planet is, so I won't even try and slap a number on it, but here's something to think about...

IF (IF!) the world is 6-10,000 years old, what does that say for us? We sure do know how to tear the crap out of the world around us, eh?

Of course we know how to blow stuff up good.
And last I heard the earth was around 4 billion years old.

Correction, 4.5 Billion. And that .5 billion really counts. A lot happens in 500 million years. Death of the dinosaurs. Dawn of man. Birth of America. Invention of Beer. You get the idea.

That's why I said it was around 4 billion and not that it was 4 billion.

I guess I'll stand up as the token, but by no means representative, Buddhist. I believe in reincarnation and karma and all that good stuff. Buddhism is very simple: everyone wants to be happy; we're not happy because we get attached to things; if we let go of the attachments we'll be happy. What we don't let go of drags us down in this life and the next.

I should also say, though, that I'm your basic crystal hugging Tarot card reader whose best friend through high school was one of the ghosts in the house. (Either I grew up in a supercool house, or my high school social life sucked--you decide). I've seen way too many things to not believe that something is running it all.

But the difference is that I don't believe that that 'something' is 'out there'. I really get a little frustrated with people of all religions who seem to think the divine is some sort of cosmic Burger King--pray for a new bike, pray for a soul mate, pray for a job. God is not your waiter, nor is God your busboy. God, to me, is *inside*. Inside me, inside you. God's so big that it's everywhere--in the trees, and the rocks and your cat and everything. EVERYTHING has a divine intelligence controlling it, so why not control from the inside?

Buddhism's big trip, for me, is the idea to look inside yourself. For one thing, you treat yourself a lot better if you think that way--none of this medieval 'I must punish and humiliate myself before God will notice me' stuff. Second, you become responsible for your own happiness, which *sucks* sometimes, but is great most of the time. Third, you treat everyone else better when you see them as equally divine, and just as confused as you are about it.

HK, Sorry to sound so floaty and new agey about it. (Please don't laugh at me).

Like Hellkitty, I too happen to be a Buddhist (of the Mahayana variety). I could have been a Christian - My mother's side of the family are Christians but they aren't serious in it at all - no prayers or mentionings of God, and the most I see of it are the church newsletters my mom gets once a month, leaving the most religious man in my family, my father, to constantly teach me about Buddhism. He's old-fashioned, and I'd like to dismiss some of his advice as plain'ol superstition ("eat all the rice on your plate or your wife will have just as many warts" is just ridiculous ) but some have always stuck in my head (such as to tread carefully on grass at night as I would be sharing the space with wandering spirits). I believe, I pray, but I know I'm nowhere close to being a holy man.

I've seen and heard things - someone playing a flute right outside my bedroom window (second floor) just as I woke up, ripples of light dancing across a door in my old house, unexplainable feelings of being watched - my ex-first-best-friend who was had a spiritually strong sense could even feel something bizzare and "powerful" in the door I kept seeing the light ripples dance across. What of him now? Just cares about "getting stoned and laid" (and he once actually had the Hugging Saint stay at his house for a night and wash her feet) and disses me to hang out with the "cool crowd" - I'd feel pity for him if I don't hate his guts right now. But I digress. Even now the ripples I've seen left the door, and I occasionally see it in the air in my new home. Is it following me?

My dad has always been quick to let me know that the people up there are watching over me. It's embarrasing, and I don't feel worthy, but I can't ignore him; one supposedly talked to me through a person in a trance (told me to get over a secret problem only I knew about), and I keep nearly getting myself killed. It may be coincidence, such as stopping my bike at a cross-junction to scratch an itch just as a sportscar whizzed past at 100km/h, but after 4 instances of life-saving luck I doubt my sense of reasoning and logic. My dad said that there's a particular someone taking care of me, and everytime those events happened hear those words repeated again in my mind. I'm a person of science, but I believe.

From a very young age, I decided that if something religious turned up which matched the data I'd accumulated, I'd give it a chance to prove itself.

So far, nothing has.

While religion's kind of somewhere below umpteen zillionth on my list of things to think about, as far as I can tell in my case it boils down to:

1) I'm cautiously optimistic about the ability of human beings to gradually and stumblingly advance the species as a whole;
2) Nature's pretty cool and we're still finding out new things every day;
3) There doesn't really seem to be a need for deities or organised religion per se in the larger scheme of things. Everything which is held up as a credit to or curse of religion functions just as well without the religious framework;
4) There are something like three thousand known deities already listed. As soon as everyone else in the world agrees on which one(s) is/are the real deal, I'll worry about it then. In the meantime, if there are such things out there, they appear to be doing just fine without me performing assorted rituals, adopting particular lifestyle choices, or telepathically bugging them for this that and the other.

As a Wiccan, I believe in life. I mean it's right there in front of you, everyday. Everywhere you look, even if you think a place is lifeless look closer you'll find life. It is the very fabric of everything, all this life that makes us who we are, shapes us, makes us question, makes us learn and progress, be something better than what we are right now.

I believe that all life should be respected, no matter what kind of life it is, microbial, insect, plant, human, animal, elemental, spiritual, robotic no matter what your concept of life is, it should be respected, that includes religions and cultures ingrained within that life.

And I believe that if we continue to question and challenge the boundaries of the box of our existence we can accomplish anything and as others have said it's not about praying, hoping, wishing for some divine entity to hand it to you on a plate. It's about taking what you believe, taking the divine with you, keeping it close to you as we continue to progress and respecting others as you go. Keeping an open mind.

It makes sense to want to have something more than just this.....That there is a purpose. I think it may be a little narcissistic to think that God had a bigger purpose for you or that he saved your leg or life in an accident, or that it was God who made this or that happen..just for you. If he was going to intervene wouldn't it be on a grander scale? Regardless, humans of this planet have been conjuring up something to believe in since the stars were all they had. That idea grew and modified and changed and eventually we learned to write and record....now we got a book...actually several books.
I think there may even be a genetic component to having faith.
My uncle, a catholic priest, said that "faith under fire only grows stronger." But when something that big is challenged...such a core belief...that defines why it is okay to deal with issues, or that keeps them going thru tough times, one they can always rely on, a person can never accept that it isn't true and will fight for that grand a belief...and that, to me, is why faith under fire grows stronger. Not because it's true, not because of faith, but because of fear. It has to be true. Anyway, I hope I'm not vilified for being the "devils advocate," pun intended!

moneycon wrote:. I think it may be a little narcissistic to think that God had a bigger purpose for you or that he saved your leg or life in an accident, or that it was God who made this or that happen..just for you.

I come across this point a lot, it simply shows that we're thinking as humans with small little minds that are corrupted by both stupidity, the inabilty to see a picture so vaste its beyond our comprehension, and a good wad of selfishness.

To scale it down a tad, has a parent ever made or done something just for you? Of course. (if you have decent parents or guardians). Its the same kind of thing. Why should a parent do anything for us? Some animals have their kids and then just fob 'em off to go breed with another mate. There's no reason for our parents to do anything for us. YOu could argue genetics and biological programming from a strong evolutionary trend would push our parents to want to assist us, but there are some parents who are just arseholes who have no concern for their spawn, so why would our good parents want to care for us or do something for us?

Love.

God intervenes in our lives in small ways, or for some, grand ways for others, for whatever purpose He deems. And of course, our small widdle minds cannot grasp His plan. We are, after all, talking about a being that crafted EVERYTHING from scratch and had it progress through evolution. (I'm one of those Catholics who beleive in evolution, BTW). An individual of a non-beleiving slant can scrunch their brow and start harping on about how what purpose God has and what He thinks and why would He do that for whoever or whatever, truth is, I don't know, only God does. The argument stands its ground on the basis that God is a being of some description that we associate with a greater intellectual ability then our own, so really, no one knows the mind of God and if anyone tells you they do, they're either delusional or a douche, take your pick.

If he was going to intervene wouldn't it be on a grander scale?

Choice.

Say you're minding your own athetist/agnostic business, walking down the street when a volcano erupts and lava is pouring towards you. Suddenly, God stomps His well pedicured foot down in front of the flow and saves you. Would you worship Him? Would you get down on your knees and kiss those big toes? If you had any sense you bet your arse you would.

The reason God wouldn't do such an action is it would negate our need for faith. choosing God because He visibly saved your backside from a lava BBQ is choosing Him under duress and with irreputable evidence. There's no faith in that, there's no choice. YOu have to willingly, freely choose God.

I can't answer why God cures some who pray for a cancer cure or why He doesn't. But curing cancer, is somethign that can be fobbed off as cancer being random and going into remission, it can be done without everyone konwing it's God. God choosing to grow back your legs that you lost in a car crash is something pretty damn obvious.

All I know is God does what He wants, and you can say that's just me fobbing off an answer, but He's a guy with a big brain and a lot of knowledge, and why He should give us care is beyond my comprenhension. But some humans give concern to ants, caring not to poision them, I pick up snails and put htem on the grass or in a bush if I see one crawling on a foot path, my sister in law uses a live mouse trap to catch the mice then walks 2K down the road to release them in a park.

Why would any of us do such things for such animals that are so below our notice? We all have our reasons, likewise, God has His.

It's really quite basic...all you(believers) have is faith....all we(non-b's) have is doubt.

See I don't class myself as a non believer but I am riddled with doubt... I tend to question everything, want to understand everything, be suspicious of everything. Yet I still have a kind of faith that I never waver from it's strange.

-i thought i posted this..anyway here it is again-
cp,
You're a hybrid.....you have faith in doubt.