The Energon Pub

Sledge wrote:Seems to me it always comes down to people making good, reasoned arguments against knockoffs vs. people bawling "BUT I WANT IT!!!" and throwing their rattles out of the pram. I did start a thread on this topic ages ago, but I can't find it now. Might have got eaten by the internet during a site upgrade.

I just like how people can justify stealing by saying how the original is worth too much, so it's silly to buy it, or that the figure is insignificant enough to not care about buying a KO.

I always enjoy the "it doesn't hurt anyone" argument. Apart from people who want to collect legitimate figures, and the company that makes them. So everyone, really.

Burn wrote:

D-340 wrote:I think you all are forgetting the issue with Shockwave. Hasbro, nor Tomy own the rights to the original mold.

They didn't own the rights for Omega Supreme or Sky Lynx either but they managed to obtain them some how.

Yep, they did. But they haven't with Shockwave, at least not yet. When they do, I believe that this Shockwave KO will be a bigger issue.

Right now, as it stands, there is no Encore/Reissue yet. So everyone who is hunting for the real deal vintage know what to look out for. I mean, really, are savvy collectors gonna get duped by 30+ auctions for an MISB Shockwave that looks all brand new and case fresh? I would certainly hope that we all aren't that naive.

Sledge wrote:

Seems to me it always comes down to people making good, reasoned arguments against knockoffs vs. people bawling "BUT I WANT IT!!!" and throwing their rattles out of the pram. I did start a thread on this topic ages ago, but I can't find it now. Might have got eaten by the internet during a site upgrade.

Eh, I think I may indulge this, the vintage one is alot of dough. But I also have one. Will I be judged as far as my ethics in collecting by my peers if I do, most likely. But I've also spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars(I'm sure I've well surpassed the value of my cars and motorcycle) on my collection of real deal figures. So if I decide to indulge this KO, I do, it's my money. Judge me then, say I'm unethical. But also know, if/when Has/Tomy does reissue Shockwave, I'll be buying that as well.

Primacron's Little Helper wrote:Metroplex is a clear example of a KO that people don't want, but the reason they don't want it is because Takara reissued the figure at the same time and the KO producers had no other way of getting rid of the figures other than the pass them off as official. It seems to me that as long a figure isn't reissued at the same time a KO is produced then there doesn't seem to be much deception. A MISB version of a figure released 20 years ago for less than $100? Sounds too good to be true.............

If this is true, then why are there G1 Dinobot KOs being sold in G1 boxes? KO manufacturers don't care if an authentic reissue is on the market or not. Their goal is to sell as many as they can. Honesty is not on the table.

D-340 wrote:Right now, as it stands, there is no Encore/Reissue yet. So everyone who is hunting for the real deal vintage know what to look out for. I mean, really, are savvy collectors gonna get duped by 30+ auctions for an MISB Shockwave that looks all brand new and case fresh? I would certainly hope that we all aren't that naive.

What about people who don't spend all their time on TF forums? Revenge Of The Fallen is out later this year. That's gonna revive interest in TFs from a lot of people. So Mr "I haven't bought a TF since 1989" thinks "Hmm, I used to have Shockwave, wish I had him now," looks on ebay and finds a reissue Shockwave for sale. Excellent! He buys it, finds it's crap, and thinks "damn, TFs aren't as good as I remember. Not gonna buy them again." Or he does get into TFs and finds that he's bought a knockoff instead of a genuine piece of his childhood. I'd be pissed off at paying real TF money for a KO.

"Ah, but what if it's not crap?" you ask. You're still overlooking that this makes the legitimate reissue of Shockwave less likely. Ok, so you claim you'll buy a HasTak one if it comes out. Fine. But will everyone? I very much doubt it. And the reissue market is slim enough as it is.

And finally, thank you for not giving a goddamn about your fellow fans. Buying this junk encourages the KO manufacturers, making genuine reissues less likely and making it harder for those of us who want legitimate goods to find them. Way to go, champ!

Sledge wrote:

D-340 wrote:Right now, as it stands, there is no Encore/Reissue yet. So everyone who is hunting for the real deal vintage know what to look out for. I mean, really, are savvy collectors gonna get duped by 30+ auctions for an MISB Shockwave that looks all brand new and case fresh? I would certainly hope that we all aren't that naive.

What about people who don't spend all their time on TF forums? Revenge Of The Fallen is out later this year. That's gonna revive interest in TFs from a lot of people. So Mr "I haven't bought a TF since 1989" thinks "Hmm, I used to have Shockwave, wish I had him now," looks on ebay and finds a reissue Shockwave for sale. Excellent! He buys it, finds it's crap, and thinks "damn, TFs aren't as good as I remember. Not gonna buy them again." Or he does get into TFs and finds that he's bought a knockoff instead of a genuine piece of his childhood. I'd be pissed off at paying real TF money for a KO.

"Ah, but what if it's not crap?" you ask. You're still overlooking that this makes the legitimate reissue of Shockwave less likely. Ok, so you claim you'll buy a HasTak one if it comes out. Fine. But will everyone? I very much doubt it. And the reissue market is slim enough as it is.

And finally, thank you for not giving a goddamn about your fellow fans. Buying this junk encourages the KO manufacturers, making genuine reissues less likely and making it harder for those of us who want legitimate goods to find them. Way to go, champ!

First, champ, I mentioned savvy collectors. Didn't think about the newbs. So sue me. I stand by my post about people not being that naive. Some sellers on eBay might be that crooked, but online sites aren't. After the Metroplex fiasco, the online sites have been more vigilant, making research a little easier. And most people who want to part with that kind of money are going to go that extra few inches to make sure they aren't ripped off. I know I did when I got back into full time collecting.

And how in the blue HELL does this a Shockwave less likely. Cuz a few collectors may indulge a KO? If Has/Tomy thinks a Shockwave reissue was lucrative/profitable, they'd have got the rights to the mold, KO or not. Look at Metroplex, even with the KO floating around, the Encore version is selling. If they think they can make money they'll do it.

So you can drop the whole holier than thou attitude cuz I drop a few bucks on a KO here and there, junior. I've spent my money, put in my time, and sure as hell don't need permission from you or anyone else if I want a KO or not. I got the real deal already, if you don't, well that ain't my problem. You wanna be all righteous, you go out and by the real deal. I already have.

So what you're saying is that by owning something, you're entitled to steal another one? Don't think you'll find that logic works.

You know what really annoys me with the KO situation? The people who cheerfully buy illegal crap try and suggest that we're all like they are. Well some of us don't break the law, and some of us care about not ****ing over our fellow fans. Feel free to join us on the moral high ground sometime, the view is great.

Sledge wrote:So what you're saying is that by owning something, you're entitled to steal another one? Don't think you'll find that logic works.

You know what really annoys me with the KO situation? The people who cheerfully buy illegal crap try and suggest that we're all like they are. Well some of us don't break the law, and some of us care about not ****ing over our fellow fans. Feel free to join us on the moral high ground sometime, the view is great.

I never said that KOs were harmless, I do see the issue. Guess that makes me twice as horrible to the fandom cuz I know KOs can be bad. Uh oh, better watch out for that big criminal D-340, he's gonna destroy the TF franchise cuz he's gonna go buy a KO Shockwave. Lock me up and throw away the key. Guess I'm just to low to be up there on your moral high road.

Dude, if savy collectors were immune to the KO shenanegans, then there wouldn't have been countless people on this very board flipping out and running to check and see if their Metroplex was legit.

These KOs will be packaged to look like authentic stuff and will eventually be used to dupe people. It's only a matter of time.

I'm not being elitist (in this instance), I wish there was a reissue Shockwave for all to enjoy and that he was priced reasonably.

I have no interest in preserving the value of vintage toys. I have interest in preserving the authenticity of those toys.

Counterpunch wrote:Dude, if savy collectors were immune to the KO shenanegans, then there wouldn't have been countless people on this very board flipping out and running to check and see if their Metroplex was legit.

These KOs will be packaged to look like authentic stuff and will eventually be used to dupe people. It's only a matter of time.

I'm not being elitist (in this instance), I wish there was a reissue Shockwave for all to enjoy and that he was priced reasonably.

I have no interest in preserving the value of vintage toys. I have interest in preserving the authenticity of those toys.

I do understand that, I really do. What happened with Encore Metroplex was beyond wrong, and those are the KOs I am whole heartedly against. Being made to look identical to the real deal to dupe collectors is wrong. I'm sure they may try that with Shockwave here, but at least we know what to look for. The purple barrel cover is a dead give away. And we haven't seen the packaging yet, so if it's Encore styled, we'd know it's the KO for sure. Even if it's a vintage style box, we'd see the purple barrel cover. Does that mean some won't try to put a gray one in there to dupe collectors, no unfortunately. But as it is, right now, we got a bit of leg up on this one.

And, yes, regardless of what a few may think, preserving the authenticity of the original vintage toys is important to me as well. I do like this KO, I may get it if it stays like this. If it gets any closer to the original(i.e gray barrel cover, a box identical to the original), I'll pass on it. I like my KOs, but not when they're meant dupe the fans(which is what I've always said).

Stormrider wrote:If this is true, then why are there G1 Dinobot KOs being sold in G1 boxes? KO manufacturers don't care if an authentic reissue is on the market or not. Their goal is to sell as many as they can. Honesty is not on the table.

Yes their goal is to sell as many as possible and having no competition is a part of that.

I think I'm right in saying that the KO Metroplex was announced before the Encore. The KO guys must have thought they were going to clean up - providing a way of getting a large figure from the mid 80's, prone to yellowing, with accessories which are easily lost.

Takara announce they're reissuing the figure and suddenly no one gives a monkey's about the KO, heck you probably couldn't give them away. Sticking them in Encore boxes and trying to palm them off onto unlucky online retailers was the only way they could get rid of them.

It's a very valid point that new fans won't know which figures have been genuinely reissued and hopefully ebay's revised policy on KOs will help stop that, but for those in the know it would seem to be those figures that have been reissued and KO'd which are the main risk.

Autoclot wrote:

bumble_bee_68 wrote:Ummm....for a K.O., it does'nt look bad.
I can't read Japanese on the website, so I can't find a link for it anywhere...

anyway, I just placed a bid on an original 1983 Radio Shack "Galactic Man" aka Shockwave...yes, I believe it was an American K.O. of the Takara Laserwave (if I'm wrong, let me know) So I hope I win!!

The grey one? I have one of those on my shelf (had it since it was new). He may have required some repairs over the years, and his battery cover may be missing, but he's still very, very cool.

Although he's "Galactic Man" I got him as Shockwave, since it's the closest that was released here. Made my Christmas very happy, that year. I think all the bleepy noises probably annoyed the hell out of my parents, though

Hope you win your auction

Yep. Won him a few weeks ago. Only $40 shipped. Pretty good condition. The light and sounds work perfectly - and loud as hell. My only concern was the missing gun barrel, but considering I only bid on him was to be Shockwave, so it's only a minor issue.
The black rubber wire was very cracked, but I fixed that. And you're prolly gonna hate me, but I customized him to become Shockwave.
Turned out better than I expected, and I'm pretty happy.
All I need now is a Decepticon reprolabel to complete him!

The issue with Encore Metroplex is a fine example. If the real one is available at an affordable price, the consumer will buy it.

Poor KO investors must have gotten burned by Takara's surprising move to release the Encore version.........thats why they stuck in in "encore" boxes.

Me, I may get this because I need to replace my original fully functional Japanese Shockwave's broken gun arm(already broken when purchased.)

bumble_bee_68 wrote:

Autoclot wrote:Although he's "Galactic Man" I got him as Shockwave

...

Hope you win your auction

Yep. Won him a few weeks ago. Only $40 shipped. Pretty good condition. The light and sounds work perfectly - and loud as hell. My only concern was the missing gun barrel, but considering I only bid on him was to be Shockwave, so it's only a minor issue.
The black rubber wire was very cracked, but I fixed that. And you're prolly gonna hate me, but I customized him to become Shockwave.

Cool Any pics of the results?

Any pics or update on this guy? Anyone know where to get one? I wouldn't mind having one just for parts

Hyper-Chicken wrote:Any pics or update on this guy? Anyone know where to get one? I wouldn't mind having one just for parts

Hell yeah!

I wish KO makers would start just selling individual parts to figures....

Headmasters, Targetmasters, etc because god it sucks to pay so much for such tiny things.

Would anyone view making KO parts as unethical because I for instance am searching for a G1 wheeljack but I can't find any that have the spoiler attached...

Seeing as how Shockers is my fave character, and that I paid a hefty, 3-digit penny to get an original with box, foam etc. all still intact, from which I refuse to remove him (did transform him a few times when I got him though), I'd sure love another one I can stand with my G1 reissues. This baby looks great, I'd love to know where I can get ahold of one.