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Kurtzman & Orci: Not The Best Writers...

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Join us to discuss the movies and stuff up to date with news for the 2017 release of Transformers 5. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Kurtzman & Orci: Not The Best Writers...

Postby Autobot032 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:36 am

Weapon: Switch Blade Tail
It has always bothered me how people go after Michael Bay for his direction of both TF movies, but most of the people (most, not all) seem to skip over the fact that the writers have a lot to do with how good or bad the final product is.

Tonight, I had a chance to really take notice at how crappy they can be.

In TransFormers, one of the main complaints is that Optimus was a beat down pussy with no backbone or fight in him. (We should all know by now, that if Bay had his way, Prime would've been a killing machine.)

In Star Trek, Kirk is very much like that first Optimus. And we all know that isn't how Kirk is. Sure, he's not Superman, and he's not going to win every fight, but Kirk didn't win a single fight in the film. Not one. In each and every one of them, he had his ass handed to him on a silver platter. Granted, he had the heart of a lion beating in him, and he fought back as best as he could, but it still wasn't enough. Really? That seems a tad unrealistic to me. I could see Spock beating him senseless. I could see Nero or his henchman doing the same, but all three of them beat him up? Really?

Now, before I continue, let me make it clear that I LOVE the new Trek movie. One of my favorites in the series, period. Does have glaring errors, however. (And not so much with Trek lore, but more in a WTF? sense.)

- Death defying moment # 1: He leaps from the car and clings to the ledge just in time to save his life.*

- Death defying moment # 2: He's dangling from the drill platform while a Romulan is trying to crush his fingers. The guy gets shot, falls over, and Sulu saves Kirk.*

- Death defying moment # 3: He's dangling from the edge of the Narada's bridge platform (or maybe it was the cargo section, who knows?) with Nero's right hand man grasping him by his throat, which gives Kirk the time to kill him with his own blaster. When then sends the Romulan over top of Kirk (who then ends up back on the ledge, dangling from it again) and plummets to his death.*

*= I don't care how you slice it, I don't care if these moments are meant to signify something or not, this is clearly just BAD writing. Using the same elements or same methods over and over again is just bad form, and was part of what killed the original Trek franchise. But to recycle it several times in the same FILM? No. Bad. I realize that you could glean from these moments that it was a visual representation of Kirk being saved from the brink, and in the end finally standing on his own. (Great, if that's what it was meant to do.) Problem is, it looks bad, and well...it IS bad.

- Kirk's beatdown #1: The bar room brawl with the Starfleet Cadets. Now, granted, he was outnumbered, he was going to go down no matter what. And I'll even grant you that he fought back as best he could, and even got in a few good hits.

- Kirk's beatdown #2: Spock beats the hell out of him on the bridge before resigning his position as acting Captain and relinquishing command to Kirk. *cue orchestral music with opera singer in the background to signify that his destiny has been written, and we bore witness to it. Yay.*

- Kirk's beatdown #3: Nero and his right hand man both beat the crap out of Kirk, and choke him. (After Spock squeezing the life out of him, you'd think Kirk's neck would look like one of those stress relief squishy balls.)

Problem is, Kirk was more of a fighter than that. Always. No, he didn't win every fight, but he damn sure gave it his best each time. Here, he was too quickly overpowered to be able to give his best. (Which is ridiculous and realistic at the same time. Ridiculous because Kirk, in any incarnation, would've been able to fight back a bit better than that. Or should've been able to, at least. Realistic because a man with 3-4 times his strength is beating on him, and that makes it almost impossible for him to really fight back.)

I realize these moments help to shape Kirk and his destiny, but the methods are the same. No one, and I mean NO one has that bad of luck.

"Um, gee. Let me think here... Well, here's how my week went: I nearly fell off the edge to my death, after being beaten like a ragdoll. Then, the guy who's now my second in command, choked the dsylights out of me, and he also beat me senseless. Then...oh yeah, there's more! A Romulan and his buddy, took turns beating me like a hooker, and again...I got choked, and yes...again I ended up dangling from a ledge. You know what's really funny? When I was a kid, I like stole my Stepdad's antique Corvette while my Mom was offworld, and I drove it over a cliff. You'll never believe what happened...that's right! I was dangling from THAT cliff too!"

How friggin' ridiculous.

That same writing mentality, is the same as what went into TransFormers, and Revenge Of The Fallen.

But you know what? Bay listened. We wanted a badass Prime? We got him. (If the forest scene alone isn't enough to sway you, then you really didn't watch the movie...) I'd bet that was Bay's handiwork more than anything else.

TransFormers was flat out boring. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Sure it had heart (which ROTF didn't), and charm (which ROTF did, to some extent), and it had that "wow" moment. (ROTF didn't need it.) However, none of that can change the fact that the first movie was a snorefest.

Revenge Of The Fallen was not boring, though it was a tad draggy in a few spots, but still never hit the level of boring, no way. Revenge Of The Fallen was also a better film. It wasn't convoluted, it wasn't rehashing the crap plot of the first film, it was a continuation of the TransFormers and the people they call friend, and the world they now call home.

Bay is not perfect.
Bay is not a hero.
Bay IS a human being who doesn't deserve the treatment he's received.
Bay IS the guy who got it done, and made it popular again.
Bay is NOT alone in the craft behind e film. The writers are just as guilty, if not more so, than he is.

You have to remember that while the director does have quite a bit of creative control, he's still trying to make something out of next to nothing, especially with the crap writing ability of Kurtzman and Orci. I mean, look at their work!

Mission: Impossible III was good, but they got lucky.

TransFormers was boring, and just wasn't TF enough for me.

Revenge Of The Fallen was great, but not perfect, and you can tell that either Bay or Ehren Kruger deserve the credit for saving it from being a trainwreck like TransFormers was.

Star Trek, again, great but not perfect. (Also, I consider them to have gotten lucky on this as well.)

Do I think they have talent? Yes. Do I find it to be great talent? NO!
Do I think they deserve as much of the blame that Bay has received? You betcha.

Fans are going after Bay, stealing from him, wanting his blood, saying reprehensible things about him and blaming only him. And they're flat out WRONG.

Kurtzman and Orci seem like really nice guys, and I think the good parts of their work really do shine, but the bad parts are glaring, and you can't miss 'em, they're slapping you right in the face.

And for them to jump ship and say things like "Oh, we understand why folks would be upset over the Twins" is just a prick move. If you think they had nothing to do with Skids and Mudflap, you're wrong. Somehow, somewhere along the line, they gave their input on the characters at the very least.

I don't want people going after them, like they have Bay, but I want people to recognize that it's not just Bay who's dropped the ball here. The writers are just as guilty, and their body of work is proof enough of that.
NOTE: Realize that I am not a perfect Christian, nor do I profess to be. I apologize if anyone's ever offended by me, I'm not perfect. Don't hold my posts and opinions against other Christians.
Autobot032
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Re: Kurtzman & Orci: Not The Best Writers...

Postby Burn » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:09 pm

Motto: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings to randomly click things in the Admin Panel to see what it breaks."
I've been saying for ages they're over-rated.

Fringe? Love the show. But realistically, it's just X-Files 2.0.

All their big "hits" seem to have been franchises that have already been established, like Star Trek and Transformers. They didn't have to come up with new characters, they just had to take existing ones and do it their way.

Very bloody over-rated. And yes, people need to take their blinkers off and look at ALL involved in the production crew, not just blame it on the director.
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