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excellent response, Mr. Macksimus.

You know, if Spike Lee would have been the director it would be fresh, hip, and cultural. But since Mike is a white guy, it's offensive and stereo typing. Any one look at the President lately? Can we quit playing the race card already. My question is "How long before Al Sharpton starts attacking this AWESOME movie?"

If Spike Lee had directed this film, mudflap and skids would have been an ironic critique of urban culture.

If you really want to know who Skidz and Mudflap are imitating, go watch Malibu's Most Wanted.

you know i've kind of had enough of the whole racism thing. if you take a good look at skids and mudflap's face they aren't meant to look like an african american stereotype, far from it. they are supposed to look like the awkward white teenage stereotype you see in such things as the simpsons and family guy. yes one of them has a gold tooth, but look at the rest of their face, big ears, slack jaw, scraggily "hair" if you look closely one even has metallic "zits" they are supposed to be ignorant white teenagers who watch too much mtv and that's it. can we stop looking for something that isn't there before this turns into phantom menace all over again?
i think if you watched skids and mudflap and thought they were supposed to be african american, then it is probably you that is the racist, as i have seen people of many ethnicities act this way. my friends and i thought they were supposed to be emulating white trash ignorant teens from the get go, and as michael bay said, they are robots you know.
although maybe awkward white teens who watch too much mtv should be upset...

Ballistic90 wrote: I'm sorry, but I'm associating their behavior and appearance with well entrenched and defined stereotypes created in the late 1800's stereotypes of the 'coon' and 'sambo' during the Jim Crow days. These were used for social control, and they meet all the criteria, EXCEPT for the skin color itself. A 'coon' was shiftless, lazy, selfish, stupid and would often fight with other 'coons'. That fits these two robots to a 't'. Mixed with the big buck teeth, a gold tooth, and big ears and they are nothing but a racial stereotype. THAT is my point.

Are you freaking kidding me right now?? Your comparing stereotypes of the 1800's to the acting of alien robots in the 21rst century? I'm with Burn in saying that you need to get with the times.
While this may have been YOUR point, my point has Ben highlighted in your very own post. These were not African American Cotton pick'in, stereo typical black "folks". They were two orange and green robots that have picked up the the way they speak from the observations of PEOPLE they have seen through earths internet (as stated from Optimus in the first movie)
Now, is this type of behavior found in the African American youth? Sure it is. As it is also found in white boys/girls, Asian, European, Latino ETC. Again, YOU are the one that is associating this with African Americans. This goes with the others that see Skids and Mudflap as acting "Black" as well.

Anyways, i know that Skids and Mudflap weren't black.

Otherwise Skids would have been a Cadillac Deville on 22's", and MudFlap would have been a Buick Regal with a lift kit on 24's"!!

Antron wrote:You know, if Spike Lee would have been the director it would be fresh, hip, and cultural. But since Mike is a white guy, it's offensive and stereo typing. Any one look at the President lately? Can we quit playing the race card already. My question is "How long before Al Sharpton starts attacking this AWESOME movie?"

Very very true! When one of his movies has a bunch of black gang bangers doing a drive by, its not concidered racial. Why should a couple robots with gold teeth be considered so?

I wanna know how they are supposed to be racist against black people if a black person voices one of the characters anyway? ANd like others have said its not African Americans who's had a problem with it, its the white people who are making such a fuss over it!

I find it odd that people would over-analyze this movie for racist undertones instead of Star Trek.

I like how he always uses the 'Im doing it for the Kids' excuse.

Yeah, that would explain the sort of Language they use then.

Jeez my head is hurting from reading all this..

Right now this is my comment about the situation..

Ballistic90 wrote:I'm still saying that the twins are racist

This is you OPINION.
Others have varying OPINIONS.
You seem to want everyone to agree with YOUR OPINION and are not respecting others.

Please read the rules about respecting other opinions.

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=16224

Cyber Bishop wrote:Lately there have been quite a few posters that we get a lot of complaints about for various things like;

1) Flaming
2) Baiting
3) Trolling
4) Lack of respect
AND THE BIG ONE…
5) Forcing their opinions on others

I and the rest of the staff are tired of these situations.
We are not trying to censor anyone or play Gestapo, there is a general lack of respect going on and it will stop.
It is ok to disagree with ones opinion; HOWEVER forcing your opinion on others and flaming them for it is not acceptable.

Example

User 1: I liked the transformers movie and what Bay did to them
User2: I don’t care what you like, bay sucks and so do you for liking him

If this was the “real world” your teeth would be knocked out for telling something like that to someone. This is not acceptable conduct.

How things like that should be handled..

User 1: I liked the transformers movie and what Bay did to them
User2: That is your opinion, I don’t like bay or his work and that is my opinion

See, much better. No hostility and the convo can continue with everyone talking and discussing like mature people.

Baiting and trolling is self explanatory, there is no reason for someone to follow someone else around and argue with them in every thread they post in.

The rules are here http://www.seibertron.com/forums/viewto ... =9614&sid=

This will not be tolerated anymore and it could end up with users being perma-banned from Seibertron.

The bottom line is
Some may think it is racial.
Some may not.

It is a matter of OPINION. Respect others or warnings will be given out.

Speedy Gonzalez wasn't offensive to Mexicans, but he was banned from American television for many years because they say he was a harmful racist stereotype. He is a MAJOR Looney Tune in Mexican television, even more popular than Porky Pig.
In my opinion, the critics are the ones that are racist.

Lousy_Autobot_Lover wrote:I find it odd that people would over-analyze this movie for racist undertones instead of Star Trek.

That's because everyone knows an Andorian "will bust a cap in yo ass" if you piss'em off!


(Yeah, that's right, I went there! Can you blame me??)

I think ppl nowadays are way too sensitive. I don't see any problem with the way they were portrayed and i'm part of a minority that gets made fun of quite often. I think we need to take it for what it is, a comic relief.

I saw the movie. It didn't find it racist, I thought they were trying to be like rappers, which are not limited to any one race. Some people have too much time on their hands

Ballistic90 wrote:First, I can tell that you are a white man by what you just said. To you, it's theoretical. To others, it's real life. It doesn't affect everyone the same way.

I am a white man, being human beings like everyone anyone else, I can certainly tell you racism isn't theoretical to us, you were kind enough to provide me with an example.

Stereotyping isn't such a big problem in this particular situation. I'm more concerned about how Skids and Mudflap were often wasting time and energy fighting each other rather than focusing on the main problems (stopping Decepticons, finding the Matrix, protecting humans, defeating The Fallen). I'm amazed that they've survived this long in the war with the Decepticons.

When I saw the film, nothing about these two struck me as a black stereotype.

They were a lot more like mountain folk from the Ozarks or something. More like the Looney Tunes guys that were always feuding.

Not for one second I though they were African American. I just thought they were the clumsy/goofy type.

The main problem is what I call selective offense.

Is anyone crying about Simmons working in his Mom's Jewish deli in NY? How about when he doesn't want to help because he has bagels to schmear? Or is this okay? Is it only offensive when the stereotype is based on skin color? It didn't offend me but then again, I'm not Jewish.

When I saw Skids and Mudflap I thought white trash. I'm white trash and I'm not offended. I think they actually had one of the better lines in the movie: It's an @$$ whoopin', its suppose to hurt.

They fight like siblings do, probably not as bad as my brother and I fought growing up. They argue with eachother, make mistakes and talk like wanna-bees.

Do the people who are offeneded stop every white kid walking down the street, that has their pants halfway down and their hat turned to the side, and tell them to stop stereotyping black culture? Do you critique all non-black rappers and hip-hop artists?

Big ears cross all races in both real life and depicitions in the media. Alfred E. Newman for example. Big ears make them look goofy.

Big teeth, not unique to a race either.

The gold tooth? Indefensible on many different levels but I am not sure it is a race based issue. My brother in law, who is white, has a ton of gold teeth.

How about we go deeper: The Transformers get their information from the Internet which is overflowing with pop culture. Why couldn't Skids and Mudflap be a critique of pop culture? They probably are not but if others can over think, then so can I.

The bottom line is that is a movie for entertainment purposes. Get some popcorn and enjoy the big expolsions and robot death matches.

Skids, to me, looks like a weird version of Rattrap and Mudflap looks like Johnny 5 and Droopy the Dog had a baby. I can assure you that I never once thought they were supposed to be black.

rpetras wrote:When I saw the film, nothing about these two struck me as a black stereotype.

They were a lot more like mountain folk from the Ozarks or something. More like the Looney Tunes guys that were always feuding.

Now wait just one darn minute there. I happen to be half Redneck and on behalf of my fellow "Appalachian Americans"
I am offended by that comment!

Damn, I couldn't finish typing that with a straight face. I really tried but I just couldn't do it.
I really am part NW Redneck but I don't give a rats rear-end about the stereotypes since I'm not (Thank Primus) full Redneck.
Actually, I suscribe to the late George Carlins viewpoint: "I'm not racist. I hate everybody equally!"

I thought the twins were supposed to be red neck type people, they didnt sound like they were black voices, they sounded like the fake wiggers the white peple that want to be black so bad

Hmmm I don't think I really cared too much about the "culture" they were portraying but I thought the language from them was a little off color. Sure, sure it's PG-13 and sure sure they're learning their language from the WWW but I don't know how great it was to hear them call someone a P**** and talk about "getting up in that ***". I get that the target demographic is the 13-25 crowd and all that but holy cow were there a lot of kids in the theatre when I went to see it.

Personally I would have been ok with the characters exactly how they were minus some of the language and I think that that is what bothered some of the critics and that is the really "offensive" part of it. I mean, it's Hasbro's toy line, so it's still clearly aimed at kids. Hopefully I won't get a Skids or Mudflap Power Bot where you can press the button and they call you a p**** or say "Oh mother...."

See what I mean?

Autobobby1 wrote:If you really want to know who Skidz and Mudflap are imitating, go watch Malibu's Most Wanted.

This post is SO on the money!

Yuckmouth wrote:Hmmm I don't think I really cared too much about the "culture" they were portraying but I thought the language from them was a little off color. Sure, sure it's PG-13 and sure sure they're learning their language from the WWW but I don't know how great it was to hear them call someone a P**** and talk about "getting up in that ***". I get that the target demographic is the 13-25 crowd and all that but holy cow were there a lot of kids in the theatre when I went to see it.

Personally I would have been ok with the characters exactly how they were minus some of the language and I think that that is what bothered some of the critics and that is the really "offensive" part of it. I mean, it's Hasbro's toy line, so it's still clearly aimed at kids. Hopefully I won't get a Skids or Mudflap Power Bot where you can press the button and they call you a p**** or say "Oh mother...."

See what I mean?

I'd buy that powerbot for the sheer audacity of it.

There is a huge amount of "but this" and "but that" and "but whatever"....concerning the language of this movie.

It is a movie that has an appropriate rating that reflects exactly what is in the film. The meaning of this rating is also expressed very clearly BEFORE the movie starts. If grownups are offended by the language...well, that is too bad. If parents are worried about the language that their little kids heard during the show.....then they really should have refrained from letting the children watch. There are TWO warnings for the movie before it is watched. It is PG-13; that's the first warning. Then, while people are sitting and waiting, and the previews are done there is a second warning that has the rating AND a brief description of what material in the movie could be offensive and why. There is simply no excuse if people neglect to notice these countermeasures.

Prime Riblet wrote:There is a huge amount of "but this" and "but that" and "but whatever"....concerning the language of this movie.

It is a movie that has an appropriate rating that reflects exactly what is in the film. The meaning of this rating is also expressed very clearly BEFORE the movie starts. If grownups are offended by the language...well, that is too bad. If parents are worried about the language that their little kids heard during the show.....then they really should have refrained from letting the children watch. There are TWO warnings for the movie before it is watched. It is PG-13; that's the first warning. Then, while people are sitting and waiting, and the previews are done there is a second warning that has the rating AND a brief description of what material in the movie could be offensive and why. There is simply no excuse if people neglect to notice these countermeasures.

Tried to explain this to my ex-mother-in-law as my ex-wife and I were discussing the movie. (I saw it on opening day, gave her an initial report and she took the kids to see it 2 days later) The mum-in-law just shook her head and still complained about some of the content that the ex and I were discussing. There will always be those opinionated, thick skulled, self righteous...individuals...who insist that something has to be a certain way regardless of how much they are forwarned. Facts don't mean squat just the sound of their own voice or the imposing of their own view. (Ratings discussion was the first of many ways the "mother in law" pushed my buttons this weekend. Could you tell?)