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Bowspearer wrote:In this case with Hound, take a good look at his tech spec for example:Hound loves the natural wonders of Earth, prefers it to Cybertron. Brave, fearless, loyal. Secretly desires to be human. Uses turret gun as radar scope, infrared radiation collector. Tracks machines as well as humans. Hologram gun projects 3-dimensional grid laser-light topographical maps. Vulnerable to thermal and electromagnetic interference.
In other words, the core of the character is that he's an explorer in love with everything about the planet, including all its wildlife - to the point whee he secretly wishes he was human. On top of that, his powers are all based around being a scout.
In short your arguments here are utterly farcical.
This is where people fail to grasp how you measure how much of a fan someone is.
If someone is just lapping up everything but feels no strong connection to any characters
or feels that characters they're not that attached to
should be butchered in their portrayals,
then they're at best, a fairly casual fan.
Hardcore fans on the other hand, are highly protective of the characters,
You can't tell me that there isn't a distinct level of difference in how much of a fan someone is between those two types of fans.
Henry921 wrote:You can always be counted on to listen to reason, Pryme.
Dead Metal wrote:Have you ever, and i mean ever seen/read/heard something that is completely original and does not copy/homage/pay tribute to something else? Here's a hint: Nope. You never have and you never will.
Burn wrote:I find it incredibly laughable that we're discussing Hounds character ... in a movie that hasn't even finished filming yet ... but apparently seeing his alt mode is enough to judge his entire character.
Oh and judging who's more of a fan than another person? Yeah ... how about we just bust out the tape measure and start measuring other things as well? Because both are irrelevant. There's no 50 Shades of Transformers here, you either like them, or you don't.
Seriously ... thanks for the laugh guys.
Bowspearer wrote:njb902 wrote:MR Optimus Prime wrote:SlyTF1 wrote:MR Optimus Prime wrote:Bowspearer wrote:Ultra Markus wrote:the fact remains that they cant please everybody and it looks like today isnt your day
At this point I'm pretty much indifferent. I still think it's a strong indication that nothing much will change with TF4, but at this point I've stopped emotionally investing in this movie and can just treat it like an easy pass- just as I have with the previous 3 movies.
Same here. People don't believe me when I say I only watch them because we don't get anything else. I hate the gold teeth, canes, humping, balls, and what not to no end. I honestly really could care less about any of the movies. Yes they had cool moments, like the 'More than meets the eye line', but for the most part I do not like them.
Also, what's wrong with gold teeth and canes? What, transformers aren't allowed to sport accessories or grow old?
It is absolutely not okay. I don't think you actually like TF, yours and other comments seem just like random pointless arguing.
To you perhaps, but that doesn't mean that SlyTF1 likes transformers any less than you.
This is where people fail to grasp how you measure how much of a fan someone is. If someone is just lapping up everything but feels no strong connection to any characters or feels that characters they're not that attached to should be butchered in their portrayals, then they're at best, a fairly casual fan. Hardcore fans on the other hand, are highly protective of the characters, feel strong connections to them and feel that all the characters, even those they don't feel a strong connection to, should be handled respectfully. You can't tell me that there isn't a distinct level of difference in how much of a fan someone is between those two types of fans.
Bowspearer wrote:
Then you need to revise Hound's bio and reflect on the nature of scouts.
In this case with Hound, take a good look at his tech spec for example:Hound loves the natural wonders of Earth, prefers it to Cybertron. Brave, fearless, loyal. Secretly desires to be human. Uses turret gun as radar scope, infrared radiation collector. Tracks machines as well as humans. Hologram gun projects 3-dimensional grid laser-light topographical maps. Vulnerable to thermal and electromagnetic interference.
In other words, the core of the character is that he's an explorer in love with everything about the planet, including all its wildlife - to the point whee he secretly wishes he was human. On top of that, his powers are all based around being a scout.
Bowspearer wrote: This is where people fail to grasp how you measure how much of a fan someone is. If someone is just lapping up everything but feels no strong connection to any characters or feels that characters they're not that attached to should be butchered in their portrayals, then they're at best, a fairly casual fan. Hardcore fans on the other hand, are highly protective of the characters, feel strong connections to them and feel that all the characters, even those they don't feel a strong connection to, should be handled respectfully. You can't tell me that there isn't a distinct level of difference in how much of a fan someone is between those two types of fans.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
PrymeStriker wrote:Bowspearer wrote:In this case with Hound, take a good look at his tech spec for example:Hound loves the natural wonders of Earth, prefers it to Cybertron. Brave, fearless, loyal. Secretly desires to be human. Uses turret gun as radar scope, infrared radiation collector. Tracks machines as well as humans. Hologram gun projects 3-dimensional grid laser-light topographical maps. Vulnerable to thermal and electromagnetic interference.
In other words, the core of the character is that he's an explorer in love with everything about the planet, including all its wildlife - to the point whee he secretly wishes he was human. On top of that, his powers are all based around being a scout.
First of all, these are two seperate characters. Same name, same franchise, two different guys. Why you think they need to be the exact same escapes me.
With your logic, every character ever named "Billy Bob" should have the same exact character as the first character named "Billy Bob," even if they're in two different fictions.
If so, then why isn't Outback from G.I Joe not a insubordinate like Outback from G1?
Why isn't Payload from Armada a pilot like Payload for G.I Joe? They totally screwed that guy up by making him a muscular mini-con.
What about Shockwave from G.I Joe? He's a S.W.A.T Specialist! WTF! You know that your Shockwaves are supposed to be one-eyed scientists!
Same distributor, right? They should be keeping their characters identical!
Not convinced yet? Here's some more examples...
1) Looks like we've got a new argument: RIRRIP (Rumble is Robot, Rumble is Pony).
2) How come Hot Spot is a Teen Titan? Shouldn't he be with the Protectobots?
I hope you realize how ridiculous comparing those completely separate characters sounds, because there's no incompatibility between the examples I just gave and G1 --> Movie characters, or G1 --> Any franchise afterwards. They're made under the same machine, but they are two different fictions.
PrymeStriker wrote:Secondly, we've only seen the guy's vehicle mode. Sure, bruisers as big as him are often just tough guys, but look at Rescue Bots Boulder for example. He's a big guy who is incredibly fascinated by Earth customs and nature (just like Hound). They could take it in that direction. Though I personally doubt it, it is still a possibility.
PrymeStriker wrote:Whether you like the way two characters are portrayed is up to you, and whether or not you want your favorite characters portrayed a certain way is your business, but I wouldn't go around here acting like it's the principal of the thing to keep all characters identical across multiple dimensions. Not only is that flipping a middle finger to the popularization of dimension interfacing, but it says to everyone else "I don't care if you're bored with the same old guy. I want my childhood raping reversed."
PrymeStriker wrote:tl;dr:
PrymeStriker wrote:If someone is just lapping up everything but feels no strong connection to any characters
You mean the characters that G1 showed us for a half a second just to sell toys? It's hard as hell (no pun intended) to feel a strong connection to a guy who's only had a strong role in a couple of episodes. G1 sucked at connecting characters with the audience.
PrymeStriker wrote:or feels that characters they're not that attached to
Which was almost everyone in G1.
PrymeStriker wrote:then they're at best, a fairly casual fan.
Okay, I see. So, no matter how much I watch Transformers cartoons, read the (recent) comics, watch the movies, buy the toys, and defend misinterpreted facts (which I do a lot here) about Transformers plotlines, history, characterization, etc., I'm merely a casual fan.
Just because I think the G1 cartoon was a plague against cartoons in general doesn't mean I'm any less of a fan than anyone else here.
PrymeStriker wrote:Hardcore fans on the other hand, are highly protective of the characters,
Hardcore fans....like...Geewunners...or general fans?
PrymeStriker wrote:You can't tell me that there isn't a distinct level of difference in how much of a fan someone is between those two types of fans.
The fandom can be split into more than two categories, bro. We could go on for ages until we are an age of extinction about them.
SlyTF1 wrote:I have a strong connection to the movie's characters, whom I am defending. I could give a damn less about what G1 characters were "ruined".
5150 Cruiser wrote:
...So... Please explain, how this mean that he must be a jeep and nothing else? How is it that in the bio you posted, it suggests that his vehicle mode is limited to only being a Jeep? Especially when we had someone in the military already explain that in modern times his current movie alt mode is a more wildly used vehicle than Jeeps as scout vehicles?
Honestly its this type of mentality that gets the "hard core fans" voice not heard. You want to pass judgment based solely on an alt mode without seeing anything else.
5150 Cruiser wrote:Bowspearer wrote: This is where people fail to grasp how you measure how much of a fan someone is. If someone is just lapping up everything but feels no strong connection to any characters or feels that characters they're not that attached to should be butchered in their portrayals, then they're at best, a fairly casual fan. Hardcore fans on the other hand, are highly protective of the characters, feel strong connections to them and feel that all the characters, even those they don't feel a strong connection to, should be handled respectfully. You can't tell me that there isn't a distinct level of difference in how much of a fan someone is between those two types of fans.
Then that's your fault. Your the one who has chosen to invest as much time as you have in this hobby. Because if that's your mentality then your going to be let down alot more than pleased. Things have changed along before the movies came out, and they will continue to change long after their gone.
5150 Cruiser wrote: Besides if your truly bragging on how much more of a "fan" you are than that's a bit sad. Because no matter how much you hope and wish, your thoughts are no better than mine. Your opinions are no better than that of the "casual fan". Your money doesn't take a prescience over that of the casual fan. But hey, I'll go with a split of the "fandom". Cause if everyone thought like you, this hobby would be an extremely boring place. With no diversity. No Change. Just the same 'ol in every franchise? No thank you.
Fanboy wrote:You need to see the figure, feel the figure , lick the figure , be the figure,
And only then can you love mp 01 the way I have.
Bowspearer wrote:What we're talking about is a character not only within the franchise, but as these movies have been sold as, based on G1.
Bowspearer wrote:SlyTF1 wrote:I have a strong connection to the movie's characters, whom I am defending. I could give a damn less about what G1 characters were "ruined".
Which is fair enough, but here's the thing. If someone took characters with the same names, and completely ruined the essence of those characters, you'd be pretty pissed right?
That's the problem most of us who are fans of G1 have with the movie characterisations. The thing is that this movie series is supposed to be based on G1, yet you wind up with character names slapped on characters which are nothing like the original characters. Where I have nothing but contempt for these movies is where the likes of Bay et al, don't simply either look for a character whose essence lines up with the character they're going with and name them accordingly, or just simply give them a unique name to begin with.
If ROTF Skids wasn't named Skids, but given another name which was either original or more fitting, then beyond the PC crown having issues with the racist undertones of the character, most G1 fans wouldn't have half the issues with that characterisation that they do.
Burn wrote:Bowspearer wrote:What we're talking about is a character not only within the franchise, but as these movies have been sold as, based on G1.
No they're not.
SlyTF1 wrote:Bowspearer wrote:SlyTF1 wrote:I have a strong connection to the movie's characters, whom I am defending. I could give a damn less about what G1 characters were "ruined".
Which is fair enough, but here's the thing. If someone took characters with the same names, and completely ruined the essence of those characters, you'd be pretty pissed right?
That's the problem most of us who are fans of G1 have with the movie characterisations. The thing is that this movie series is supposed to be based on G1, yet you wind up with character names slapped on characters which are nothing like the original characters. Where I have nothing but contempt for these movies is where the likes of Bay et al, don't simply either look for a character whose essence lines up with the character they're going with and name them accordingly, or just simply give them a unique name to begin with.
If ROTF Skids wasn't named Skids, but given another name which was either original or more fitting, then beyond the PC crown having issues with the racist undertones of the character, most G1 fans wouldn't have half the issues with that characterisation that they do.
No. Not with something like Transformers, at least. Not when it's something that's subject to change as the years go by. Just look at Animated Optimus Prime. He's completely different from every other Optimus Prime to ever come into existence. With changes like that in the Transformers franchise, is Hound being a different vehicle really that big of a damn deal? Or any character who's personality is different in any other given universe? That's what people don't get; this is a completely different universe. The movies aren't based on G1. If they were based on G1, the first movie would have opened up with the Transformers escaping Cybertron and crash landing the Ark in a volcano billions of years ago. It's not supposed to be based on a damn thing other than the general idea of Transformers. These movies aren't based on G1, and they never will be.
Fanboy wrote:You need to see the figure, feel the figure , lick the figure , be the figure,
And only then can you love mp 01 the way I have.
Bowspearer wrote:We're not talking about characters in completely different franchises here.
The alt mode is going to affect the physical attributes of a character. The fact is that a smaller offroad vehicle fits the portrayal of Hound who is not only a lower of earth, but as a scout, an explorer, far better that something that big that his exploring efforts would end in clumsiness.
It's highly convenient that you bring up the cartoon and completely ignore the comics as they completely turn your argument on its head. Buy your argument I must despise the IDW Dead-Furmanverse because it's not a carbon copy of the G1 cartoon, yet I love their take on it and much like Bayformers, it's supposedly based on G1. However Unlike Bayformers, that isn't just a hollow, tokenistic claim in the case of IDW. Own goal.
PrymeStriker wrote:tl;dr:
Automatic forfeit.
Firstly, Hound was very much a prominent character in the cartoon.
PrymeStriker wrote:or feels that characters they're not that attached to
Which was almost everyone in G1.
Again, read the Marvel comics and get back to me when you actually have an informed opinion.
So in other words, you're basing your argument on never having read the original comics and apparently aren't that attached to the modern comics either (as the IDW stuff all bases its characterisations on G1)
and letting your hatred for one serious cause you to view the very characters which are ultimately the franchise, with contempt?
PrymeStriker wrote:Hardcore fans on the other hand, are highly protective of the characters,
Hardcore fans....like...Geewunners...or general fans?
And almost on queue, the shaming trope which implies that I must want everything to be a carbon copy of the G1 cartoon. Of course the fact that the reason I have little time for the movies and love IDW is because unlike Bay, they actually managed to redux G1 the right way, just can't be true, now can it.
People are always going to be interested in different things in the fandom and to different levels, however true fans will always respect the whole enough that even if it's not quite a part of the mythos they're heavily into, they'd want someone adapting it to at least take enough of the core premise of the story and grasp the essence of the character, enough to at least make a respectful adaptation.
Henry921 wrote:You can always be counted on to listen to reason, Pryme.
Dead Metal wrote:Have you ever, and i mean ever seen/read/heard something that is completely original and does not copy/homage/pay tribute to something else? Here's a hint: Nope. You never have and you never will.
Bowspearer wrote:Really, because DOTM says otherwise, not to mention what Desanto and Murphy said at the outset it was intended to be. Heck it was the whole reason the fans were asked for input on Don Murphy's forums if you recall.
PrymeStriker wrote:Bowspearer wrote:We're not talking about characters in completely different franchises here.
Technically, we are. The Transformers are a brand while everything that springs off of it (Armada, Movies, G1) are separate franchises. Franchises of a franchise, if that makes sense to you.
PrymeStriker wrote:The alt mode is going to affect the physical attributes of a character. The fact is that a smaller offroad vehicle fits the portrayal of Hound who is not only a lower of earth, but as a scout, an explorer, far better that something that big that his exploring efforts would end in clumsiness.
Someone said something about those big things being used for the likes of scouting nowadays, so it would be a modernized Hound in that regard. Otherwise, what you're complaining about is his incompatibility with his function rather than his character. In other words, the character is a lover of earth. Scouting is his job. Functions have changed for all of the characters across multiple continuities.
Hound loves the natural wonders of Earth, prefers it to Cybertron.
PrymeStriker wrote:It's highly convenient that you bring up the cartoon and completely ignore the comics as they completely turn your argument on its head. Buy your argument I must despise the IDW Dead-Furmanverse because it's not a carbon copy of the G1 cartoon, yet I love their take on it and much like Bayformers, it's supposedly based on G1. However Unlike Bayformers, that isn't just a hollow, tokenistic claim in the case of IDW. Own goal.
Had you made mention to the comics before in this thread? If not, I was logically to assume you're referring to the cartoon.
PrymeStriker wrote:Own goal is the unexpected score of point in soccer from what I recall. Are you using that correctly?
PrymeStriker wrote:PrymeStriker wrote:tl;dr:
Automatic forfeit.
Are you so high up in thinking everyone's wrong and you're right, that you completely MISSED that the "tl;dr" was toward MY post, summarizing it with your quote, rather than directed at yours? It's proving that you're hardly reading or comprehending any one here.
PrymeStriker wrote:Firstly, Hound was very much a prominent character in the cartoon.
Yeah..see how he nearly vanished by Season 2? What an important character!
Toy sales.
PrymeStriker wrote:PrymeStriker wrote:or feels that characters they're not that attached to
Which was almost everyone in G1.
Again, read the Marvel comics and get back to me when you actually have an informed opinion.
I was referring to the cartoon. My informed opinion came from that. I haven't read the original comics because they don't appeal to me. Ready to bodyslam me with "not a true fan?"
PrymeStriker wrote:So in other words, you're basing your argument on never having read the original comics and apparently aren't that attached to the modern comics either (as the IDW stuff all bases its characterisations on G1)
I am very much fond of MTMTE, though I haven't read it all that recently.
PrymeStriker wrote:and letting your hatred for one serious cause you to view the very characters which are ultimately the franchise, with contempt?
Analyze my post a little further, and you'll realize...
I hate the CARTOON'S portrayals of characters, and how many they dumped on us to sell toys, and as such, hate the whole cartoon in general. I said nothing anout the original comics, theatrical film, modern comics, original toys, updated toys, etc., which I am actually quite intrigued by. You seem to be making the same basis for accusations that you ridicule me for ignoring.
PrymeStriker wrote:PrymeStriker wrote:Hardcore fans on the other hand, are highly protective of the characters,
Hardcore fans....like...Geewunners...or general fans?
And almost on queue, the shaming trope which implies that I must want everything to be a carbon copy of the G1 cartoon. Of course the fact that the reason I have little time for the movies and love IDW is because unlike Bay, they actually managed to redux G1 the right way, just can't be true, now can it.
I was asking an honest question. I don't know why you responded with that kind of sarcasm.
PrymeStriker wrote:
People are always going to be interested in different things in the fandom and to different levels, however true fans will always respect the whole enough that even if it's not quite a part of the mythos they're heavily into, they'd want someone adapting it to at least take enough of the core premise of the story and grasp the essence of the character, enough to at least make a respectful adaptation.
See; here's the thing. The movies are all about the humans, and therefore the writers completely ignore the robots' personas. That said, I dislike the movies for their writing, and critique it based on its plot line and story/character development. Not whether of not a plot device is portrayed the "right" way - because there is no right way to portray a character. Hasbro has proven this time and time again.
PrymeStriker wrote:But by your argument, you're not a true fan if you don't defend a character being portrayed one way or another.
PrymeStriker wrote: Personally, I let the movies be and focus on what actually interests me about this franchise. Well, I guess I'm not a true fan. I guess I'm just casually involved in Transformers, like you said, even though I've grown up deeply involved in the brand and avidly collect, watch, and read Transformers material.
PrymeStriker wrote:When I said (to the effect of) "the fandom can be divided a lot thinner than that" was in hopes that you'd realize that your comparison is rubbish.
On the contrary, you're just in denial about the elephant in the room. Making a failed attempt at a reductio ad absurdum, doesn't change that.PrymeStriker wrote:Clearly, that doesn't seem to be the case. As Burn said: you either like Transformers or you don't.
Fanboy wrote:You need to see the figure, feel the figure , lick the figure , be the figure,
And only then can you love mp 01 the way I have.
Fanboy wrote:You need to see the figure, feel the figure , lick the figure , be the figure,
And only then can you love mp 01 the way I have.
Va'al wrote:I keep track of everyone. Backwards.
There are atandarfs to maintain.
LOST Cybertronian wrote:Hey, If Mindmaster survived then you should do just fine.
Slayershoop wrote:That's a Huayra, not a Zonda, you can tell by the wing flaps on the front and the fact that it says Huayra on the front
Va'al wrote:I keep track of everyone. Backwards.
There are atandarfs to maintain.
LOST Cybertronian wrote:Hey, If Mindmaster survived then you should do just fine.
President-prime wrote:It's always the poor bastards that shouts the loudest. Sour grape, aren't we, t-maccksimus?
Va'al wrote:I keep track of everyone. Backwards.
There are atandarfs to maintain.
LOST Cybertronian wrote:Hey, If Mindmaster survived then you should do just fine.
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