The Energon Pub

MartianSpyGirl1996 wrote:

BlueBefore wrote:

MartianSpyGirl1996 wrote:

CrankyOldTruck wrote:The toy line itself is excellent.
Those of you bitching about the half-dozen things that you seem to think are wrong with toys intended for 5 YEAR OLDS can take a long walk off a very short pier.
Seriously, you guys are dicks! I'd love to see even one of you walk up to a child, pull the toy from his hand and say "Dude, this thing is a piece of crap! You shouldn't be playing with this" and toss it in the trash. Honestly, that's the mentality you people have when you start verbally bashing on toys meant for little children on a public site so you might want to think about how you are coming across to the rest of society when you start ragging on these toys. I know 3 people off the top off my head who wont have anything to do with this site because of this very issue.

So kids don't deserve to have quality toys? Yeah, okay...

"I'm sorry Charlie you can't have transformers figures we're too poor to pay $50 for a deluxe class figure. You'll just have to go without."

Except quality deluxe figures wouldn't cost $50. Even with the rise in price for plastic, Hasbro is clearly cutting corners to increase their profit margins. Also, with as much **** as they put out, you would think there would be more variety with transformations... spanning from 1-step changers to Mixmaster-level difficulty

You are right Masterpiece figures in the deluxe scale with 30 steps or more would probably cost more than $50. Most 3-7 year old boys don't want 30 steps or more to transform a figure. They want quick transformations. These particular figures were designed for emerging markets in which people do not have much money to spend, they can't afford Masterpiece figures. Your preferences aren't universal nor should they even be considered.

MartianSpyGirl1996 wrote:

BlueBefore wrote:

MartianSpyGirl1996 wrote:

CrankyOldTruck wrote:The toy line itself is excellent.
Those of you bitching about the half-dozen things that you seem to think are wrong with toys intended for 5 YEAR OLDS can take a long walk off a very short pier.
Seriously, you guys are dicks! I'd love to see even one of you walk up to a child, pull the toy from his hand and say "Dude, this thing is a piece of crap! You shouldn't be playing with this" and toss it in the trash. Honestly, that's the mentality you people have when you start verbally bashing on toys meant for little children on a public site so you might want to think about how you are coming across to the rest of society when you start ragging on these toys. I know 3 people off the top off my head who wont have anything to do with this site because of this very issue.

So kids don't deserve to have quality toys? Yeah, okay...

"I'm sorry Charlie you can't have transformers figures we're too poor to pay $50 for a deluxe class figure. You'll just have to go without."

Except quality deluxe figures wouldn't cost $50. Even with the rise in price for plastic, Hasbro is clearly cutting corners to increase their profit margins. Also, with as much **** as they put out, you would think there would be more variety with transformations... spanning from 1-step changers to Mixmaster-level difficulty

Also Hasbro needs to increase their profits with transformers. Which a couple years ago wasn't doing as well and that's changed I am sure because of pure coincidence.

william-james88 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:That Starscream looks a heck of a lot like that weird test shot we've seen a few days ago. What was the story behind that again? Part of a cancelled line of simple Generations figures from years ago?
Guess the line isn't exactly cancelled.

These are too simple and silly for me, but I do like the general design of that Megatron.

It's the same figure. And it was never confirmed that the prototype sown was for a defunct line. That was just a theory which has since been debunked.

Oh it was debunked? Didn't catch that, the last I heard on it was that someone claimed to be a designer and that it was part of this simple Generations line from 2011. I knew that sounded fishy XD

BlueBefore wrote:

MartianSpyGirl1996 wrote:

BlueBefore wrote:

MartianSpyGirl1996 wrote:

CrankyOldTruck wrote:The toy line itself is excellent.
Those of you bitching about the half-dozen things that you seem to think are wrong with toys intended for 5 YEAR OLDS can take a long walk off a very short pier.
Seriously, you guys are dicks! I'd love to see even one of you walk up to a child, pull the toy from his hand and say "Dude, this thing is a piece of crap! You shouldn't be playing with this" and toss it in the trash. Honestly, that's the mentality you people have when you start verbally bashing on toys meant for little children on a public site so you might want to think about how you are coming across to the rest of society when you start ragging on these toys. I know 3 people off the top off my head who wont have anything to do with this site because of this very issue.

So kids don't deserve to have quality toys? Yeah, okay...

"I'm sorry Charlie you can't have transformers figures we're too poor to pay $50 for a deluxe class figure. You'll just have to go without."

Except quality deluxe figures wouldn't cost $50. Even with the rise in price for plastic, Hasbro is clearly cutting corners to increase their profit margins. Also, with as much **** as they put out, you would think there would be more variety with transformations... spanning from 1-step changers to Mixmaster-level difficulty

Also Hasbro needs to increase their profits with transformers. Which a couple years ago wasn't doing as well and that's changed I am sure because of pure coincidence.

For the love of...

Lemme explain this in terms even you can understand.
KIDS WANT TO PLAY. They want to recreate their favorite scenes from the movies and cartoon by going zoom, zoom! Kirkoukikroukrik, PEW, PEW PEW! Not zoom, zoom! ... Hold on a sec... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... finally!... PEW! PEW! PEW! You deny the kids their fun with Transformers. You deny ALL the kids their fun with Transformers by giving only overcomplicated Chinese mind benders and giving NO other options, like at the time of ROTF. Then what? Kids lose interest and will have no emotional attachments to TFs. These kids grow up into adults who dont give a single fawk about TF. Those adults will never buy high-end TFs for themselves and no TFs for their kids either. What's the point, those things arent fun they remember. Finally, the line die out and fade away. Just because of your selfishness.
Also, adult collectors have Generations, Masterpeice, Platinums, all sort fo exclusives, and 3rd party. Isn't that enough?

Jeez, how many times must I repeat the obvious?

-Kanrabat- wrote:Jeez, how many times must I repeat the obvious?

Sorry, TL;DR, could you condense it a bit?

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Jeez, how many times must I repeat the obvious?

Sorry, TL;DR, could you condense it a bit?

Alpha Bravo

-Kanrabat- wrote:

BlueBefore wrote:

MartianSpyGirl1996 wrote:

BlueBefore wrote:

MartianSpyGirl1996 wrote:

CrankyOldTruck wrote:The toy line itself is excellent.
Those of you bitching about the half-dozen things that you seem to think are wrong with toys intended for 5 YEAR OLDS can take a long walk off a very short pier.
Seriously, you guys are dicks! I'd love to see even one of you walk up to a child, pull the toy from his hand and say "Dude, this thing is a piece of crap! You shouldn't be playing with this" and toss it in the trash. Honestly, that's the mentality you people have when you start verbally bashing on toys meant for little children on a public site so you might want to think about how you are coming across to the rest of society when you start ragging on these toys. I know 3 people off the top off my head who wont have anything to do with this site because of this very issue.

So kids don't deserve to have quality toys? Yeah, okay...

"I'm sorry Charlie you can't have transformers figures we're too poor to pay $50 for a deluxe class figure. You'll just have to go without."

Except quality deluxe figures wouldn't cost $50. Even with the rise in price for plastic, Hasbro is clearly cutting corners to increase their profit margins. Also, with as much **** as they put out, you would think there would be more variety with transformations... spanning from 1-step changers to Mixmaster-level difficulty

Also Hasbro needs to increase their profits with transformers. Which a couple years ago wasn't doing as well and that's changed I am sure because of pure coincidence.

For the love of...

Lemme explain this in terms even you can understand.
KIDS WANT TO PLAY. They want to recreate their favorite scenes from the movies and cartoon by going zoom, zoom! Kirkoukikroukrik, PEW, PEW PEW! Not zoom, zoom! ... Hold on a sec... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... finally!... PEW! PEW! PEW! You deny the kids their fun with Transformers. You deny ALL the kids their fun with Transformers by giving only overcomplicated Chinese mind benders and giving NO other options, like at the time of ROTF. Then what? Kids lose interest and will have no emotional attachments to TFs. These kids grow up into adults who dont give a single fawk about TF. Those adults will never buy high-end TFs for themselves and no TFs for their kids either. What's the point, those things arent fun they remember. Finally, the line die out and fade away. Just because of your selfishness.
Also, adult collectors have Generations, Masterpeice, Platinums, all sort fo exclusives, and 3rd party. Isn't that enough?

Jeez, how many times must I repeat the obvious?

Could not agree more.

BlueBefore wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:For the love of...

Lemme explain this in terms even you can understand.
KIDS WANT TO PLAY. They want to recreate their favorite scenes from the movies and cartoon by going zoom, zoom! Kirkoukikroukrik, PEW, PEW PEW! Not zoom, zoom! ... Hold on a sec... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... finally!... PEW! PEW! PEW! You deny the kids their fun with Transformers. You deny ALL the kids their fun with Transformers by giving only overcomplicated Chinese mind benders and giving NO other options, like at the time of ROTF. Then what? Kids lose interest and will have no emotional attachments to TFs. These kids grow up into adults who dont give a single fawk about TF. Those adults will never buy high-end TFs for themselves and no TFs for their kids either. What's the point, those things arent fun they remember. Finally, the line die out and fade away. Just because of your selfishness.
Also, adult collectors have Generations, Masterpeice, Platinums, all sort fo exclusives, and 3rd party. Isn't that enough?

Jeez, how many times must I repeat the obvious?

Could not agree more.

Yeah, these simplified transformers (and even the shampoo bottles) dont take anything away from us fans. They just give the company we like more options to make money which would let them continue to make products for us.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, new stuff is what the motion picture based lines like RID and the movie lines are for. Generations and such are the nostalgia-based lines while the motion picture based lines are the outlet for newer things.

But the brand isn't just the cartoon/movie line and Generations. It's constantly experimenting with just about everything -- which in itself is a good thing -- but we end up with multiple "buildable" lines, multiple "easy to transform" lines (while regular TFs are also getting simpler, I might add), multiple "way out there" lines (i.e. Angry Birds), etc. on top of all those, and which all start off with the same 4 characters in the same style (and then moves on the the most predictable second/third+ round choices). In the past these would've been treated as character unique abilities; imagine if everybody could store/deploy mini-bots out of their chests like Soundwave! There's something for everyone, true, but it just feels like the brand's stagnated.


I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like to see more lines start like this:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, new stuff is what the motion picture based lines like RID and the movie lines are for. Generations and such are the nostalgia-based lines while the motion picture based lines are the outlet for newer things.

I wasn't talking about new characters... I said I was sick of G1. I would love for more G2, Machine Wars, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and RiD01 updates.
And since this is coming next, Waspinator was impossible to find, and Sky-Byte disappeared after a month. Rattrap and Tankor are clogging shelves because of being over distributed, and they're no more shelfwarmers than Skywarp, Scoop, and Whirl. People just focus on them because they need any reason to hate on anything that's not geewun.
So yes, I would like to see more variety in updates/homages outside of G1.

BlueBefore wrote:You are right Masterpiece figures in the deluxe scale with 30 steps or more would probably cost more than $50. Most 3-7 year old boys don't want 30 steps or more to transform a figure. They want quick transformations. These particular figures were designed for emerging markets in which people do not have much money to spend, they can't afford Masterpiece figures. Your preferences aren't universal nor should they even be considered.

WOW.


There's no point discussing things with people of your personality type, so on ignore you go. However, I do want you to thank you for speaking for all children... a grown adult (I'm assuming) speaking on behalf of kids. Back when I was 7 and started collecting, I preferred Beast Wars over G1 because of the more complex transformations. I got into the brand because they were puzzles and not just another action figure line... not all childeren are brain dead and enjoy quick/lazy conversions. That's why I suggested making the brand more diverse instead of simplifying everything (which has affected Generations/Combiner Wars). I also suggested bringing back complexities seen only 5 years ago. Considering Masterpiece Prowl sold for around $60 and is bigger than a deluxe, you have no legs to stand on which is why I'm done with this discussion. I don't have the time or energy for utter foolishness, especially when it's coated with privilege and entitlement... if I wanted to deal with that headache, I'd be over at TFW

Noideaforaname wrote:(while regular TFs are also getting simpler, I might add)

That all depends what you are comparing it too. I notice a shift in the Transformers brand in 2007. Before then, Transformations were more or les simple (ie the Cybertron line) and there wasn't that much G1. All the G1 present was the classics line, and very few masterpiece toys. Then the movie happened at the same time as the Animated series. So all the G1 characters came back full circle (albeit with completely new designs) and the toys became more complex than ever before. To a point where it got insane in the ROTF line for kids. Since I didnt collect TFs back then, I had to go back and try to find all the toys I wanted. I look on local adds a bunch. You guys cannot imagine the amount of times I find lots of movie toys being sold because the parents just find them too hard for their kids to do.

Anyways, I just wanted to say that toys are only getting simpler if we compare to 2007 and on, not before. And the G1 inundation happens to also be at the same time. You know what's crazy guys, 10 years ago, thre were no bumblebee toys on the shelves.

william-james88 wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:(while regular TFs are also getting simpler, I might add)

That all depends what you are comparing it too. I notice a shift in the Transformers brand in 2007. Before then, Transformations were more or les simple (ie the Cybertron line) and there wasn't that much G1. All the G1 present was the classics line, and very few masterpiece toys. Then the movie happened at the same time as the Animated series. So all the G1 characters came back full circle (albeit with completely new designs) and the toys became more complex than ever before. To a point where it got insane in the ROTF line for kids. Since I didnt collect TFs back then, I had to go back and try to find all the toys I wanted. I look on local adds a bunch. You guys cannot imagine the amount of times I find lots of movie toys being sold because the parents just find them too hard for their kids to do.

Anyways, I just wanted to say that toys are only getting simpler if we compare to 2007 and on, not before. And the G1 inundation happens to also be at the same time. You know what's crazy guys, 10 years ago, thre were no bumblebee toys on the shelves.

Yeah, you're right, actually now that I think about it, we had the exact opposite discussion back in 2007.

Back then most hardcore collectors were actually complaining about the complexity of the Movie designs and toys. Claiming that they sucked due to being so complex, taking too long to transform and that nobody wants to fiddle about with something that complex.
Heck, some even ridiculed the line for having "Automorph", which was a gimmick that would allow parts of the figure to put themselves into position during transformation to take a few step away from it. Naysayers said that this was only needed because the toys were stupidly complex, and I was one of them.

But we got used to the complexity and saw how it could actually benefit figures giving them more satisfying transformations and robot-modes. Now we want to keep the complexity while Hasbro is trying to drastically move in the opposite direction. The big problem is that since 2007, the robot mode designs have become so complex and detailed, that complex transformations are needed pull them off.

Hasbro is overdoing simplicity though, or at least not doing it right. Instead of designing toys and character designs that are naturally simple, they design complex looking robots, and then try to give these complex robots simple transformations that are just inadequate to the actual design of the figure. And while they're at it, they heavily cut down on articulation, which comes of as stupid, because we love articulation. I mean part of what I thought was so awesome about the Beast Wars line, was that as a whole, the toys had loads of articulation and could move in ways no other toy could at the time.

They need to take a look at the original Classics line and Cybertron, which had a pretty good balance of simplicity and complexity. Having satisfying transformations that fit the designs of the robots, plus they were decently articulated.

Dead Metal wrote:But we got used to the complexity and saw how it could actually benefit figures giving them more satisfying transformations and robot-modes.

And I think we mostly have Animated to thank for that since it had a reasonable level of complexity that showed us how complexity could be done in a way that fun instead of overbearing like the Movie 1 line.

...I like the Prime. Going to get him and maybe some seekers to paint.


Megs is meh

Dead Metal wrote:
Hasbro is overdoing simplicity though, or at least not doing it right. Instead of designing toys and character designs that are naturally simple, they design complex looking robots, and then try to give these complex robots simple transformations that are just inadequate to the actual design of the figure. And while they're at it, they heavily cut down on articulation, which comes of as stupid, because we love articulation. I mean part of what I thought was so awesome about the Beast Wars line, was that as a whole, the toys had loads of articulation and could move in ways no other toy could at the time.

They need to take a look at the original Classics line and Cybertron, which had a pretty good balance of simplicity and complexity. Having satisfying transformations that fit the designs of the robots, plus they were decently articulated.

I fully agree with that statement. A good example to show how it can be done right vs done wrong is AOE First Edition Optimus and Hound.

Both are made a bit more simple with the idea of an alt mode and a robot mode which have very different parts. The way they solved it for Hound was to turn him inside out. I think it worked pretty well. Yes, his feet are not his wheels unlike what the design shows, but the transformation is still pleasant and he end up with two very different looking modes with minimal kibble in each (actually , I dont think he has any excessive kibble). FE Amazon Optimus on the other hand is a failure. The design was very complex and the only way the toy people found it to work while not making the toy overly difficult was to have an entire sculpted robot body hidden in a truck which enveloped it like a big shell which would just end up on his back in robot mode.

And I agree on the articulation as well. It's dipped a bit too, especially with the wrists (for some reason). However, I do think that the Robots in Disguise 2015 line as well as the combiner wars deluxes echo back to Cybertron (and G1) a bit. Both are not very difficult and yet look like their show models. I was fiddling with Strong arm and her robot mode looks exactly like the cartoon model except for (you guess it) her wrists.

Dead Metal wrote:They need to take a look at the original Classics line and Cybertron, which had a pretty good balance of simplicity and complexity. Having satisfying transformations that fit the designs of the robots, plus they were decently articulated.

Is there an echo in here? I so agree.

Appart the leaders, Movie One line have pretty simple transformations, akin to Energon or Cybertron. Did I miss anything? Appart the fact that I started collecting at HFTD that is.

Cobotron wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:They need to take a look at the original Classics line and Cybertron, which had a pretty good balance of simplicity and complexity. Having satisfying transformations that fit the designs of the robots, plus they were decently articulated.

Is there an echo in here? I so agree.

I was actually thinking about that statement and remembered the Classics nerf gun Megatron. He had no wrist articulation either

-Kanrabat- wrote:Appart the leaders, Movie One line have pretty simple transformations, akin to Energon or Cybertron. Did I miss anything? Appart the fact that I started collecting at HFTD that is.

They are a bit trickier than the rest. You have voyager Longhaul, rampage, mixmaster, ironhide, all more complex than anything up to that point.

And for deluxes, you had dead end, bumblebee, bonecrusher and barricade which were also more difficult than any deluxe up to that point.

MartianSpyGirl1996 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, new stuff is what the motion picture based lines like RID and the movie lines are for. Generations and such are the nostalgia-based lines while the motion picture based lines are the outlet for newer things.

I wasn't talking about new characters... I said I was sick of G1. I would love for more G2, Machine Wars, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and RiD01 updates.
And since this is coming next, Waspinator was impossible to find, and Sky-Byte disappeared after a month. Rattrap and Tankor are clogging shelves because of being over distributed, and they're no more shelfwarmers than Skywarp, Scoop, and Whirl. People just focus on them because they need any reason to hate on anything that's not geewun.
So yes, I would like to see more variety in updates/homages outside of G1.

BlueBefore wrote:You are right Masterpiece figures in the deluxe scale with 30 steps or more would probably cost more than $50. Most 3-7 year old boys don't want 30 steps or more to transform a figure. They want quick transformations. These particular figures were designed for emerging markets in which people do not have much money to spend, they can't afford Masterpiece figures. Your preferences aren't universal nor should they even be considered.

WOW.


There's no point discussing things with people of your personality type, so on ignore you go. However, I do want you to thank you for speaking for all children... a grown adult (I'm assuming) speaking on behalf of kids. Back when I was 7 and started collecting, I preferred Beast Wars over G1 because of the more complex transformations. I got into the brand because they were puzzles and not just another action figure line... not all childeren are brain dead and enjoy quick/lazy conversions. That's why I suggested making the brand more diverse instead of simplifying everything (which has affected Generations/Combiner Wars). I also suggested bringing back complexities seen only 5 years ago. Considering Masterpiece Prowl sold for around $60 and is bigger than a deluxe, you have no legs to stand on which is why I'm done with this discussion. I don't have the time or energy for utter foolishness, especially when it's coated with privilege and entitlement... if I wanted to deal with that headache, I'd be over at TFW

Masterpiece Prowl was $70 not $60. I know simple facts like these are hard for you transformers fans. Also a child isn't brain dead just because they don't want to take an hour to transform their figure or even be able to do it and considering you are here complaining about children's toys to me, you weren't an average child. Also I never said I was speaking for all kids. I as speaking based on scientific research done by Hasbro. Which is the reason for all the decisions that were made. "coated with privilege" says the mascot for first world problems who is crying about a budget line made for people that are much poorer than he is. "entitlement" to what? You are the one saying you are entitled to more complex transformations at the expense of a company you have no stock in.

william-james88 wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Appart the leaders, Movie One line have pretty simple transformations, akin to Energon or Cybertron. Did I miss anything? Appart the fact that I started collecting at HFTD that is.

They are a bit trickier than the rest. You have voyager Longhaul, rampage, mixmaster, ironhide, all more complex than anything up to that point.

And for deluxes, you had dead end, bumblebee, bonecrusher and barricade which were also more difficult than any deluxe up to that point.

Here's an interesting question for you guys regarding the complexity of a figure: how scared are you of breaking off parts when transforming a more complicated one? I can imagine the simpler ones being more sturdy thanks to less moving parts and less small parts to break; compare any regular Prime Deluxe Bumblebee with the upscaled Legion for example.

william-james88 wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Appart the leaders, Movie One line have pretty simple transformations, akin to Energon or Cybertron. Did I miss anything? Appart the fact that I started collecting at HFTD that is.

They are a bit trickier than the rest. You have voyager Longhaul, rampage, mixmaster, ironhide, all more complex than anything up to that point.

And for deluxes, you had dead end, bumblebee, bonecrusher and barricade which were also more difficult than any deluxe up to that point.

Those are from the ROTF line.

It's true that Voayger Movie 1 Ironhide is also a bit tricky. Ratchet, however, is a breeze. The M1 Bees were also somewhat complex. However, the rest of the line Is eazy enough. I own about all of the Movie One molds. Except voyager Megatron which I heard is complete garbage. I have a scrap one (for custom fodder) as a preview and it does not make me want a complete one.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Here's an interesting question for you guys regarding the complexity of a figure: how are scared are you of breaking off parts when transforming a more complicated one? I can imagine the simpler ones being more sturdy thanks to less moving part;, compare any regular Prime Deluxe Bumblebee with the upscaled Legion for example.

I don't think complexity = fragility. So far, all the figures I ham-handed into broken and unreparable pile of junk were pretty simple actually.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Here's an interesting question for you guys regarding the complexity of a figure: how are scared are you of breaking off parts when transforming a more complicated one? I can imagine the simpler ones being more sturdy thanks to less moving part;, compare any regular Prime Deluxe Bumblebee with the upscaled Legion for example.

I don't think complexity = fragility. So far, all the figures I ham-handed into broken and unreparable pile of junk were pretty simple actually.

The only figures that ever broke on me were the following:

BW TM2 Megatron
MP Ghost Starscream
RTS wreckgarr

And the figures which have pieces always coming off are Animated deluxe Bumblebee and Voyager Mixmaster.

And lastly Kanrabat, I was just mentioning movie toys, not necessarily from the first film, though I did try to stop at around HFTD.

And Jelze, I really havent had much experience with upscaled legions aside from KOs and they werent very good.

I was specifically talking about the Movie One toys. Not really counting them but still, that line had also a lot of Cybertron repaints.

Also, a Movie One toy that I REALLY like and is fairly simple is Stockade from the Movie subline All Spark Power (Repainted as Gears in ROTF).


As for figure fragility, I don't really count parts designed to pop off if too much pressure is applied. They pop back in so it's all good. The ones I broke either had faulty plastics or I did something really wrong. Most of the time, the part don't break but it leave some nasty stress marks.