Official Transformers Generations Discussion Thread

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Re: Early Design Concept Sketches of Fan Built Bot Windblade

Postby Cyberpath » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:31 am

The Fan Built Autobot kind of looks like a Decepticon.

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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:33 am

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fenrir72 wrote:
Metro Prime wrote:
Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:I SERIOUSLY would have preferred that knight head design to the geisha one.

It's a kabuki mask. Why do people keep insisting Windblade is a geisha?


Ignorance?
Also doesn't help that Takara's mistaken her for one. :roll:
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:02 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:
Metro Prime wrote:
Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:I SERIOUSLY would have preferred that knight head design to the geisha one.

It's a kabuki mask. Why do people keep insisting Windblade is a geisha?


Ignorance?
Also doesn't help that Takara's mistaken her for one. :roll:


Plus, anybody remember Season 3's The Face of the Nijika:

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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:32 am

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Don't blame that abomination on the fans. They voted for the attributes, not aesthetics.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby dragons » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:42 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:
Metro Prime wrote:
Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:I SERIOUSLY would have preferred that knight head design to the geisha one.

It's a kabuki mask. Why do people keep insisting Windblade is a geisha?


Ignorance?
Also doesn't help that Takara's mistaken her for one. :roll:


Plus, anybody remember Season 3's The Face of the Nijika:

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Its almost funny alien intelligent beings from another planet try to look more human than robotic pictures should clear up confusion of geisha kabuki style
Kabuki mask
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Peridot » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:43 am

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shockblast2 wrote:Don't blame that abomination on the fans. They voted for the attributes, not aesthetics.

Nobody was being blamed for Windblade's design, which you (and only you) feel the need to complain about as always. I just have a problem with so many gosh-darn people :BOOM: misidentifying the basic aesthetics behind it.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:45 am

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Metro Prime wrote:
Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:I SERIOUSLY would have preferred that knight head design to the geisha one.

It's a kabuki mask. Why do people keep insisting Windblade is a geisha?



Why do people keep insisting that a damn alien robot could be A)a female or B) would even assimilate the look of something it has never even seen.

I know why. Because the publishers of Transformers comics assembled an all woman team to make her comic. And in doing so they have made themselves sexists, just to try to attract fem nazis to their book.

The whole concept of fembots is just ridiculous. Aliens robots have no genitals nor do they give birth. So, why would it have boobs or curves? Robots are not male or female. The idea of gender in Transformers is one of the stupidest subjects in fiction. And that is saying something, because there are some really odd ideologies in the realm of science fiction.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:47 am

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Metro Prime wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:Don't blame that abomination on the fans. They voted for the attributes, not aesthetics.

Nobody was being blamed for Windblade's design, which you (and only you) feel the need to complain about as always. I just have a problem with so many gosh-darn people :BOOM: misidentifying the basic aesthetics behind it.



No, I don't think I am the only one. As a matter of fact, I think most people who like Transformers hate Windblade. Even its wiki page tries to apologize and discharge the fans from blame for its Japanese geisha look.

"Windblade is the first "officially fan-created" Transformer ever, the culmination of Hasbro's "Fan-Built Bot" initiative program. Two polls on Hasbro's official website allowed fans to determine her character and physical traits (well, most of her traits - her Japanese motifs weren't an option in the poll and seem to be the work of the design team)."
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shajaki » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:49 am

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sweet! shockblast is back!
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:01 am

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shajaki wrote:sweet! shockblast is back!


Thanks for the warm welcome(whether it be sarcastic or not :D)!

Seibertron is my go to on Transformers news. Mainly because I like the nice pics and I like the staff. And even though I do not see eye to eye with most of the regulars here, I do like to converse with them as well. I frequent the site quite regularly, I just don't comment most of the time.

With that said, back to the stories!
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Agamemnon » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:02 am

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Generalizations are, generally, not the best idea. It's fine to express one's own opinion. I would be careful to associate that opinion with "most people" without conducting some sort of poll or something...
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:18 am

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Agamemnon wrote:Generalizations are, generally, not the best idea. It's fine to express one's own opinion. I would be careful to associate that opinion with "most people" without conducting some sort of poll or something...


Generalizations and what most people think of Windblade are two very different things. And I do not have to take a poll. I just read the comments on the site over the last few months. Most seem to hate Windblade. The only thing I don't like about it is the face. It and Drift from AOE share the same problem. But, at least Drift in AOE actually had contact with humanity, so it somewhat made sense. With Windblade, it is just stupid. And the whole fembot thing...well you already know what I think about that.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Peridot » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:33 am

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shockblast2 wrote:
Metro Prime wrote:
Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:I SERIOUSLY would have preferred that knight head design to the geisha one.

It's a kabuki mask. Why do people keep insisting Windblade is a geisha?



Why do people keep insisting that a damn alien robot could be A)a female or B) would even assimilate the look of something it has never even seen.

I know why. Because the publishers of Transformers comics assembled an all woman team to make her comic. And in doing so they have made themselves sexists, just to try to attract fem nazis to their book.

The whole concept of fembots is just ridiculous. Aliens robots have no genitals nor do they give birth. So, why would it have boobs or curves? Robots are not male or female. The idea of gender in Transformers is one of the stupidest subjects in fiction. And that is saying something, because there are some really odd ideologies in the realm of science fiction.

They have masculine builds, voices, pronouns, and (occasionally) facial hair. And fembots have been around since the second season of G1. Don't tell me they don't have genders.
And how are the people at IDW feminazis? Because they tried to write a decent female character who isn't Arcee?
Also, I'm a guy. Just so you know.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby gothsaurus » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:37 am

Have to say, the comic made me love Windblade. Great stuff. Amazing art. Good story. Highly recommended.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:00 am

The set of figures containing Wingblade has yet to be sighted in Canada and it's too bad because I am really looking forward to this figure. I think it looks great and I love the style and personality given to it. I am simply talking about the characteristics found on the toy (I have not read the comics) and the design which I find quite interesting. There have been several Samurai Transformers in the past (of which I have a collection http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/will88888888/20141012_204141.jpg) so it is fun to finally get a female embodiment of that traditional culture.

I never for one moment wondered why the Transformers had sexes, why they had noses (do they breathe?), if Optimus has a mouth under that plate in the original cartoon, or even how they are living machines. They are a fun idea to sell the best kind of toys ever (2 toys for the price of one). I don't understand the need to add "logic" to certain things when the subject matter was never intended for that. Before wondering the assumptions of alien sentient robots taking on traits from human cultures, you have to wonder the assumptions of there being sentient transforming alien robots in the first place. Let's not fall into this infernal spyral and simply enjoy these great toys.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:44 am

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Metro Prime wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:
Metro Prime wrote:
Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:I SERIOUSLY would have preferred that knight head design to the geisha one.

It's a kabuki mask. Why do people keep insisting Windblade is a geisha?



Why do people keep insisting that a damn alien robot could be A)a female or B) would even assimilate the look of something it has never even seen.

I know why. Because the publishers of Transformers comics assembled an all woman team to make her comic. And in doing so they have made themselves sexists, just to try to attract fem nazis to their book.

The whole concept of fembots is just ridiculous. Aliens robots have no genitals nor do they give birth. So, why would it have boobs or curves? Robots are not male or female. The idea of gender in Transformers is one of the stupidest subjects in fiction. And that is saying something, because there are some really odd ideologies in the realm of science fiction.

They have masculine builds, voices, pronouns, and (occasionally) facial hair. And fembots have been around since the second season of G1. Don't tell me they don't have genders.
And how are the people at IDW feminazis? Because they tried to write a decent female character who isn't Arcee?
Also, I'm a guy. Just so you know.


Yes, and I thought it was dumb then too. Giving a robot a feminine voice is fine. Giving a robot boobs and curves is stupid. They don't have genders. They do not reproduce via sexual intercourse, so why would they have a gender?

I didn't say the people at IDW are femnazis. I said that is the only type of people you would attract when you use the fact that they allowed only females to work on the Windblade story arc as a marketing tool.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Black Hat » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:44 am

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The knight design was pretty cool, but honestly I'm glad they went with the Japanese look. I think it makes her really unique.

Also, to settle the whole debate, here's actual kabuki makeup:

Image

Which is much closer to Windblade's face than geisha makeup, which doesn't have the stripes (The hair is very geisha-esque though).
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:49 am

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william-james88 wrote:The set of figures containing Wingblade has yet to be sighted in Canada and it's too bad because I am really looking forward to this figure. I think it looks great and I love the style and personality given to it. I am simply talking about the characteristics found on the toy (I have not read the comics) and the design which I find quite interesting. There have been several Samurai Transformers in the past (of which I have a collection http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/will88888888/20141012_204141.jpg) so it is fun to finally get a female embodiment of that traditional culture.

I never for one moment wondered why the Transformers had sexes, why they had noses (do they breathe?), if Optimus has a mouth under that plate in the original cartoon, or even how they are living machines. They are a fun idea to sell the best kind of toys ever (2 toys for the price of one). I don't understand the need to add "logic" to certain things when the subject matter was never intended for that. Before wondering the assumptions of alien sentient robots taking on traits from human cultures, you have to wonder the assumptions of there being sentient transforming alien robots in the first place. Let's not fall into this infernal spyral and simply enjoy these great toys.


The problem is Windblade has never been to earth. So, why would it take on the form of something that it has never seen? I never wondered why there were fembots. I know why. For the same reason that comic artists draw big boobs on their female characters. The artists do not get out much. Their sexual frustration is conveyed in their work. :lol:
In all seriousness, I always look at the logical side, even in fiction. Must be why I like Shockwave so much. :D
I actually like Arcee and I liked its design. But to call it a "fembot" is just silly. It is a transformer, no different than any other transformer.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:57 am

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Delta Magnus wrote:The knight design was pretty cool, but honestly I'm glad they went with the Japanese look. I think it makes her really unique.

Also, to settle the whole debate, here's actual kabuki makeup:

Image

Which is much closer to Windblade's face than geisha makeup, which doesn't have the stripes (The hair is very geisha-esque though).



It is not unique. AOE Drift has the same type of Japanese look.

Geisha or Kabuki? If you are into that kind of thing then I guess it is important. To me they are the same. As in I could care less. I just think having a transformer look like a human painting their face is kinda stupid. Especially when said transformer has never even seen a Kabuki/Geisha person.

Maybe I am being too logical, but it doesn't make sense to me. Furthermore, for Hasbro to say this thing represents the fans choices is depressing. I personally liked the name Wraith and it could have worked for a Transformer that uses invisibility, kinda like Mirage. Not some silly looking thing who brings a sword to a gun fight. I think one of the designers must have a Jaopanese Geisha girl fetish. I mean, why would you do that?
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Black Hat » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:12 am

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shockblast2 wrote:
Delta Magnus wrote:The knight design was pretty cool, but honestly I'm glad they went with the Japanese look. I think it makes her really unique.

Also, to settle the whole debate, here's actual kabuki makeup:

Image

Which is much closer to Windblade's face than geisha makeup, which doesn't have the stripes (The hair is very geisha-esque though).



It is not unique. AOE Drift has the same type of Japanese look.


...Who came after Windblade. In any case the point is moot as the 2 look totally different. Drift had a samurai look whilst Windblade has a kabuki performer style.

Geisha or Kabuki? If you are into that kind of thing then I guess it is important. To me they are the same. As in I could care less. I just think having a transformer look like a human painting their face is kinda stupid. Especially when said transformer has never even seen a Kabuki/Geisha person.


Kabuki and Geisha are completely different things. Kabuki is an ancient style of Japanese theatre known for energetic performance styles and dramatic costumes/makeup. Geisha are female entertainers who attend high-class events and sing songs, play music and make conversation.

And by your logic, Bumblebee can't be called that because the Transformers have never encountered bumblebees yet. For that matter, none of them should have humanoid faces- they should all just have Shockwave-style cameras.

Maybe I am being too logical, but it doesn't make sense to me. Furthermore, for Hasbro to say this thing represents the fans choices is depressing.


Hasbro gave out a multiple-choice survey on what the fans wanted in a new TF. Windblade incorporates all the elements the fans wanted. So yeah, it does incorporate the fan's choices.

I personally liked the name Wraith and it could have worked for a Transformer that uses invisibility, kinda like Mirage. Not some silly looking thing who brings a sword to a gun fight.


Well I guess Grimlock better retire seeing as he's best known for using a sword. I haven't read the comics, but IIRC Windblae's choice not to use a gun is actually a big part of her character.

I think one of the designers must have a Jaopanese Geisha girl fetish. I mean, why would you do that?


Because maybe they wanted to do a design that wasn't a generic robot? You don't have to have a "fetish" to incorporate something new into a design. Honestly you're bing kinda racist.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby ScottyP » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:19 am

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shockblast2 wrote:Maybe I am being too logical, but it doesn't make sense to me.


I don't want to go over my opinion on gender and Transformers for the 80th time. So instead, I've gone the Occam's Razor route to point out that you've answered your worry, in the above quote, all on your own :) Don't overthink it and try to just have fun.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:22 am

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Delta Magnus wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:
Delta Magnus wrote:The knight design was pretty cool, but honestly I'm glad they went with the Japanese look. I think it makes her really unique.

Also, to settle the whole debate, here's actual kabuki makeup:

Image

Which is much closer to Windblade's face than geisha makeup, which doesn't have the stripes (The hair is very geisha-esque though).



It is not unique. AOE Drift has the same type of Japanese look.


...Who came after Windblade. In any case the point is moot as the 2 look totally different. Drift had a samurai look whilst Windblade has a kabuki performer style.

Geisha or Kabuki? If you are into that kind of thing then I guess it is important. To me they are the same. As in I could care less. I just think having a transformer look like a human painting their face is kinda stupid. Especially when said transformer has never even seen a Kabuki/Geisha person.


Kabuki and Geisha are completely different things. Kabuki is an ancient style of Japanese theatre known for energetic performance styles and dramatic costumes/makeup. Geisha are female entertainers who attend high-class events and sing songs, play music and make conversation.

And by your logic, Bumblebee can't be called that because the Transformers have never encountered bumblebees yet. For that matter, none of them should have humanoid faces- they should all just have Shockwave-style cameras.

Maybe I am being too logical, but it doesn't make sense to me. Furthermore, for Hasbro to say this thing represents the fans choices is depressing.


Hasbro gave out a multiple-choice survey on what the fans wanted in a new TF. Windblade incorporates all the elements the fans wanted. So yeah, it does incorporate the fan's choices.

I personally liked the name Wraith and it could have worked for a Transformer that uses invisibility, kinda like Mirage. Not some silly looking thing who brings a sword to a gun fight.


Well I guess Grimlock better retire seeing as he's best known for using a sword. I haven't read the comics, but IIRC Windblae's choice not to use a gun is actually a big part of her character.

I think one of the designers must have a Jaopanese Geisha girl fetish. I mean, why would you do that?


Because maybe they wanted to do a design that wasn't a generic robot? You don't have to have a "fetish" to incorporate something new into a design. Honestly you're bing kinda racist.



LOL...where do start with you?

First of all, Bumblebee scanned his automobile when he came to earth. If you mean his name only, then that is silly. His name in his native language is something different. In our language it is Bumblebee. As for the look comment that is silly. I never said they should all look like Shockwave. You did.

I tell you that I could care less about the differences between Kabuki and Geisha, and then you drone on about the differences. I told you I don't care. I could find out just as simply as you did, but again, I didn't care. Its all Japanese culture stuff that I do not get into. If you do, that's cool. I just don't.

AOE Drift was designed at least a year before Windblade was thrown together back in May, so that is not true.

As far as your comment about Grimlock goes, Grimlock is a 45 ft dinosaur with razor sharp teeth and an a laser proof hide. Windblade is a fragile, rail thin robot that transforms into a plane. Now, which one do you think needs a gun and which do you think could make due with a sword, assuming it was not in dino form, stomping the life out of anything stupid enough to shoot it?

And to say I am being racist is just stupidity. But, this is the internet, so no surprise. There is always someone throwing the random race card. Congrats, today it is you!
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:29 am

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ScottyP wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:Maybe I am being too logical, but it doesn't make sense to me.


I don't want to go over my opinion on gender and Transformers for the 80th time. So instead, I've gone the Occam's Razor route to point out that you've answered your worry, in the above quote, all on your own :) Don't overthink it and try to just have fun.



Well, the gender thing is really simple. There are male and female transformers because without identity similar to ours, the transformers line would be doing as well as the MARS knockoffs right next to them at Walmart. When creating something to sell in the entertainment business you must get people to identify with your characters. Thus there are fembots because we have the female gender. It is simply to draw in female fans (and more importantly, their wallets) to an otherwise male dominated fanbase.

It doesn't take logic to understand the logic behind the decisions to do so. But, that does not mean I don't think it is silly. :D
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:22 am

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Genders =/= sexes.

Super robot lifeforms (or autonomous robotic organisms) don't have sexes, but they do have genders.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Sabrblade
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:07 pm

Weapon: Energon Crossbow
Sabrblade wrote:Genders =/= sexes.

Super robot lifeforms (or autonomous robotic organisms) don't have sexes, but they do have genders.



O.......k......

You want to explain the difference? I must have been ditching class the day they explained it in sex ed. :D
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