Official Transformers Generations Discussion Thread

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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:07 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:Genders =/= sexes.

Super robot lifeforms (or autonomous robotic organisms) don't have sexes, but they do have genders.



O.......k......

You want to explain the difference? I must have been ditching class the day they explained it in sex ed. :D
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby gothsaurus » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:20 pm

I'm guessing he's getting at the notion these bots can visibly look like a girl/guy without actually having reproductive parts.

As for me, I think this is one topic to just smile and accept, knowing this all started with a kids' cartoon. Trying to pick this one apart is like unmasking Vader to find a pubescent whiny kid. Best to leave this one to mystery. =; :KREMZEEK:
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Fires_Of_Inferno » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:21 pm

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So uh, yeah I don't know a thing about Japanese culture. So saying that I'm ignorant because of that, well it's mostly true! I'm ignorant to the majority of Japanese culture so I have no idea what a Kabuki is. The only reason I know what a Gesha is is because my sister wouldn't shut up about Memoirs of a Geisha for about two years. The only other thing I know is some of the anime that has robots in it, and Akira.

I was more interested in Scandinavian and Native American culture. The only reason I see for the decision to make Windblade look like... THAT, is because it's Japanese-ish, and kids love Japanese things these days.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:28 pm

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gothsaurus wrote:I'm guessing he's getting at the notion these bots can visibly look like a girl/guy without actually having reproductive parts.

As for me, I think this is one topic to just smile and accept, knowing this all started with a kids' cartoon. Trying to pick this one apart is like unmasking Vader to find a pubescent whiny kid. Best to leave this one to mystery. =; :KREMZEEK:


Unless it is Bay's Devastator, right? :D

Sure, ultimately the reason for "fembots" is what I said before. I just find it comical that a robot can be called a boy or girl. But of course our basis of comparison is what we know, and we as humans are either male or female.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Peridot » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:30 pm

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Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:So uh, yeah I don't know a thing about Japanese culture. So saying that I'm ignorant because of that, well it's mostly true! I'm ignorant to the majority of Japanese culture so I have no idea what a Kabuki is. The only reason I know what a Gesha is is because my sister wouldn't shut up about Memoirs of a Geisha for about two years. The only other thing I know is some of the anime that has robots in it, and Akira.

I was more interested in Scandinavian and Native American culture. The only reason I see for the decision to make Windblade look like... THAT, is because it's Japanese-ish, and kids love Japanese things these days.

At least you're honest. And a Scandinavian Transformer would be THE BEST THING EVER.
The only plausible rationale I could find behind Windblade being Japanese is the whole "fan" thing she has going on. As the TFWiki puts it:
Her name works on many levels: "Wind Blade" is a real variety of industrial fan blade; she turns into a jet with VTOL turbofans; Hasbro designers had said they envisioned her coursing more energy into her sword blade through a spinning turbine fan in the hilt; She has a tessen, or iron fan; and, of course, she was the fans' choice character.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:34 pm

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Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:So uh, yeah I don't know a thing about Japanese culture. So saying that I'm ignorant because of that, well it's mostly true! I'm ignorant to the majority of Japanese culture so I have no idea what a Kabuki is. The only reason I know what a Gesha is is because my sister wouldn't shut up about Memoirs of a Geisha for about two years. The only other thing I know is some of the anime that has robots in it, and Akira.

I was more interested in Scandinavian and Native American culture. The only reason I see for the decision to make Windblade look like... THAT, is because it's Japanese-ish, and kids love Japanese things these days.



I would say the designer is Japanese culture bias, because this option was never voted on and seems to be the reason why people do not like it. Honestly, if it had a different face I would think the figure was pretty cool. As far as children liking it, mine don't. They think it is weird. Because to them it is. They are not Japanese. Only Japanese people would appreciate it, which is why it seems out of place in our toy market. Conversely, the Ninja Turtles have a lot of Asian references in their shows, but I have yet to find a ninja turtle figure that dresses like a geisha girl.
As far as the differences between geisha and kabuki, they seem the same to me. Even by the other guy's description. The only difference is that it appears there are only female geisha's while kabuki's can be both.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby gothsaurus » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:36 pm

I'm kinda glad the knight version didn't happen. We got a barrage of knight-headed dinobots with the last series of Bay-formers. The face and detail are so well realized. I think it might be the best detail and most refined deco we've gotten on a head.... maybe ever. Bravo for that.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:38 pm

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shockblast2 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Genders =/= sexes.

Super robot lifeforms (or autonomous robotic organisms) don't have sexes, but they do have genders.



O.......k......

You want to explain the difference? I must have been ditching class the day they explained it in sex ed. :D
Sex is a biological attribute, while gender is a cultural attribute. The two are related but are not 100% synonymous.

In the case of the Transformers, in the broadest, most generalizing manner speaking (as there are specifics that may very well contradict what I'm about to say, but I wish to point out that I'm not speaking of all cases and only of the most unspecific viewpoint there is), the Transformers do not have sexes, but do have genders.

Think of it this way, Barbie and Ken dolls are not biologically female and male (being artificially made inanimate objects), and thus have no sexes. BUT, they are culturally viewed as representing the female and male sexes, and thus are considered to have genders of their own (even in all their plastic glory).
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:38 pm

shockblast2 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Genders =/= sexes.

Super robot lifeforms (or autonomous robotic organisms) don't have sexes, but they do have genders.



O.......k......

You want to explain the difference? I must have been ditching class the day they explained it in sex ed. :D


I get it, he means that sex referrs specifically to the reroductive organs, while Gender is how one distinguishes themselves and identifies themselves as (just like there are men out there that see themselves as being of a different gender even if they don't have the same sex organs as that gender).

It's just like there are transformers who are sleeker or broader, or have more masculine traits or less.

And as for having sword, it's to each their own. Dinobot and Depthcharge preferred sword fighting, and Batman is known for not carrying a gun into battle. The Jedi always use their Light Sabres over laser guns. Windblade, Drift and Beast Machines Cheetor preffer swords over guns, fine, to each their own.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby gothsaurus » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:42 pm

Okay, one is a stage actor... one is a high-class escort girl.

I hate that we know so little about other cultures, history...well, and current affairs, too. I have to redouble my efforts to get a decent look around.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Fires_Of_Inferno » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:45 pm

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gothsaurus wrote:Okay, one is a stage actor... one is a high-class escort girl.

I hate that we know so little about other cultures, history...well, and current affairs, too. I have to redouble my efforts to get a decent look around.



Eh, don't let it bother you. There's only so much information a human being can accumulate in their lifetime.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:45 pm

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gothsaurus wrote:Okay, one is a stage actor... one is a high-class escort girl.


If you want to be really technical, Kabuki actors are almost exclusively male, and so were Geisha's way, way back in the day :lol:
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:47 pm

Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:So uh, yeah I don't know a thing about Japanese culture. So saying that I'm ignorant because of that, well it's mostly true! I'm ignorant to the majority of Japanese culture so I have no idea what a Kabuki is. The only reason I know what a Gesha is is because my sister wouldn't shut up about Memoirs of a Geisha for about two years. The only other thing I know is some of the anime that has robots in it, and Akira.

I was more interested in Scandinavian and Native American culture. The only reason I see for the decision to make Windblade look like... THAT, is because it's Japanese-ish, and kids love Japanese things these days.


If you like Native American culture, I know a TF that is right up your alley:

Sabreback! Image
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Black Hat » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:49 pm

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Ah, Sabreback. Owner of the oh-so-wonderful Triffid Mode.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Fires_Of_Inferno » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:51 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
Fires_Of_Inferno wrote:So uh, yeah I don't know a thing about Japanese culture. So saying that I'm ignorant because of that, well it's mostly true! I'm ignorant to the majority of Japanese culture so I have no idea what a Kabuki is. The only reason I know what a Gesha is is because my sister wouldn't shut up about Memoirs of a Geisha for about two years. The only other thing I know is some of the anime that has robots in it, and Akira.

I was more interested in Scandinavian and Native American culture. The only reason I see for the decision to make Windblade look like... THAT, is because it's Japanese-ish, and kids love Japanese things these days.


If you like Native American culture, I know a TF that is right up your alley:

Sabreback! Image



He's already been on my want list for a while! XD
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:54 pm

Delta Magnus wrote:Ah, Sabreback. Owner of the oh-so-wonderful Triffid Mode.


Care to illuminate the matter?
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby gothsaurus » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:54 pm

HA! Forgot about him. That head sculpt wasn't a favorite, but I DID really love most of those mold... they were asymmetrical and had loads of neat weaponry details... plus the Takara versions were in really odd colors.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Fires_Of_Inferno » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:04 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
Delta Magnus wrote:Ah, Sabreback. Owner of the oh-so-wonderful Triffid Mode.


Care to illuminate the matter?


Plant monsters from a book called The Day of the Triffids.

This is the "Triffid mode"

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and THIS is a Triffid

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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:09 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Genders =/= sexes.

Super robot lifeforms (or autonomous robotic organisms) don't have sexes, but they do have genders.



O.......k......

You want to explain the difference? I must have been ditching class the day they explained it in sex ed. :D
Sex is a biological attribute, while gender is a cultural attribute. The two are related but are not 100% synonymous.

In the case of the Transformers, in the broadest, most generalizing manner speaking (as there are specifics that may very well contradict what I'm about to say, but I wish to point out that I'm not speaking of all cases and only of the most unspecific viewpoint there is), the Transformers do not have sexes, but do have genders.

Think of it this way, Barbie and Ken dolls are not biologically female and male (being artificially made inanimate objects), and thus have no sexes. BUT, they are culturally viewed as representing the female and male sexes, and thus are considered to have genders of their own (even in all their plastic glory).



"Sex is a biological attribute, while gender is a cultural attribute. The two are related but are not 100% synonymous."

What are you basing this on, because to me they are one in the same?

Your example of Ken and Barbie fails when you think of the fact that Barbie has boobs. And you are comparing apples to oranges. Ken and Barbie are also human beings that would have a sex vs alien robots who have no way to reproduce like we do. Therefore they would have no use in combat with a fragile form vs a strong one, save for recon. And that would be fine, except for the fact that they have boobs! And just what are boobs for? Feeding the offspring of one who reproduces. Now, you can see why it is silly, and is nothing more than a marketing ploy to attract females to a male dominated brand. And that doesn't even touch the fact that Windblade has never been to earth to copy the form to begin with!

Thanks for the input though Sabre as I get what you were trying to say.
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby gothsaurus » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:13 pm

sounds like it's based on.... science. >:oP

As for that plant mode... that's SO much awesome. Between that and those "dead dino" modes where their eyes would roll back.... a lot of awesome in that line. :michaelbay:
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:46 pm

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shockblast2 wrote:"Sex is a biological attribute, while gender is a cultural attribute. The two are related but are not 100% synonymous."

What are you basing this on, because to me they are one in the same?
And are you any official authority who has legitimate say on the matter?

Not saying I am, but the "to me" part of your post is irrelevant when dealing with scientific facts. As for a source, Wikipedia has a full article on the matter, or if you'd rather not trust Wikipedia, a quick Google Search brings up several articles.

shockblast2 wrote:Your example of Ken and Barbie fails when you think of the fact that Barbie has boobs.
No, she has sculpted plastic that is molded into a shape that serves only to emulate the physical appearance of breasts in terms of aesthetics only. The plastic itself serves no functional purposes beyond those pertaining to structure and visual imitation through artificial means.

shockblast2 wrote:And you are comparing apples to oranges. Ken and Barbie are also human beings that would have a sex
Not in the real world sense that I was speaking of, unless you sincerely believe that Mattel's plastic dolls have all the biological functions that flesh and blood organisms do. ;)

shockblast2 wrote:Therefore they would have no use in combat with a fragile form vs a strong one, save for recon.
If you truly knew the fiction, you'd know that Windblade exists in a post-war setting, and that she originated from a Cybertronian colony planet that had largely been isolated from warfare. Ergo, she's not built for combat. She's a civilian.

shockblast2 wrote:And that would be fine, except for the fact that they have boobs! And just what are boobs for? Feeding the offspring of one who reproduces.
For Earthlings, yes. But is this a universal truth for all extra-terrestrial lifeforms in existence? Not all aliens conform to the same bodily functions of us humans, and it is arrogant for us to always think so.

shockblast2 wrote:Now, you can see why it is silly, and is nothing more than a marketing ploy to attract females to a male dominated brand.
Sure, because it's the female audiences who are predominately attracted to boobs. :roll:

shockblast2 wrote:And that doesn't even touch the fact that Windblade has never been to earth to copy the form to begin with!
Sure doesn't look like any Earth model jet I've ever seen. ;)

shockblast2 wrote:Thanks for the input though Sabre as I get what you were trying to say.
No prob, Bob. ;)^
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby shockblast2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:55 pm

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shockblast2 wrote:And that would be fine, except for the fact that they have boobs! And just what are boobs for? Feeding the offspring of one who reproduces.
For Earthlings, yes. But is this a universal truth for all extra-terrestrial lifeforms in existence? Not all aliens conform to the same bodily functions of us humans, and it is arrogant for us to always think so.

You do know aliens do not exist, right? So you have no basis of comparison in which to make this statement......lol. Unless you are basing this on every sci fi movie you have ever seen, to which there is no standard because it changes depending on the writer of the fiction. Either or, it is a silly statement to make.

And your comment about sex vs gender, again, does NOT apply to a race of alien robots! Why? because they are alien robots that do not reproduce and both sex and gender are based on the fact that we do have a difference because of reproduction.

Windblade's civilian origins are irrelevant as most autobots were not war machines either. Still doesn't explain why a fragile robot who is not built for combat would have a sword as its weapon. And what Jet in TF fandom does look like an earth jet, except the movie verse stuff and Starscreams G1 bot?
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:01 pm

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shockblast2 wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:And that would be fine, except for the fact that they have boobs! And just what are boobs for? Feeding the offspring of one who reproduces.
For Earthlings, yes. But is this a universal truth for all extra-terrestrial lifeforms in existence? Not all aliens conform to the same bodily functions of us humans, and it is arrogant for us to always think so.

You do know aliens do not exist, right? So you have no basis of comparison in which to make this statement......lol. Unless you are basing this on every sci fi movie you have ever seen, to which there is no standard because it changes depending on the writer of the fiction. Either or, it is a silly statement to make.

And your comment about sex vs gender, again, does NOT apply to a race of alien robots! Why? because they are alien robots that do not reproduce and both sex and gender are based on the fact that we do have a difference because of reproduction.

Windblade's civilian origins are irrelevant as most autobots were not war machines either. Still doesn't explain why a fragile robot who is not built for combat would have a sword as its weapon.


Shockblast, let me ask you this: does everything have to adhere what's real? No room for fantasies, imagination or even limitless possibilities to what's out there?
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Black Hat » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:02 pm

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In a universe as big as the universe is, I would be very surprised if Earth was the only planet with life on it.

Also, Shockblast, I find it amusing that your signiature declares you president of the Anti-Nerdrage Coalition (whatever the slag that is)...and yet here you are, nerdraging about the big bad writers getting yucky girly bits in your big boy's robot franchise.

Honestly, y'all need to stop getting worked up about boobs. We've all sucked on 'em, what's the big deal?
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Re: Official Transformers Generations Thrilling 30 Discussion Thread

Postby Fires_Of_Inferno » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:10 pm

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Delta Magnus wrote:Also, Shockblast, I find it amusing that your signiature declares you president of the Anti-Nerdrage Coalition (whatever the slag that is)...and yet here you are, nerdraging about the big bad writers getting yucky girly bits in your big boy's robot franchise.



In his defense, his sig also says "I am not just the founder, but also its first client". So he's still prone to nerd-rage himself ;)
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #238 - The Podcast That Leapt Through Time
Twincast / Podcast #238:
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MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Sunday, January 12th, 2020

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