Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

shockblast2 wrote:I find it laughable that anyone thinks this version of Trailbreaker fits with a pre 2011 CHUG collection.

Aesthetically speaking, none of the Classics-themed lines didn't match with each other anyway: Universe doesn't fit with Classics, Generations doesn't fit with Universe, and Generations/Thrilling 30 doesn't fit with its Generations.

I knew that the size would be a factor from the beginning. Especially when him and Hoist are standing a half a head shorter than Bumblebee.

Pfft, they're taller than Bumblebee: that's all that matters. Hell, based on Optibotimus's comparison with Bumblebee, they appear to be a smidge taller than the Classics Seeker mold, itself half-a-head taller than the "yeller kid".

These figures would fit in with a WFC/FOC collection better.

Not with those vehicle modes (and, as a consequence, the vehicle bits on the robot mode) they don't.

In comparison with throwing him and Hoist in a CHUG collection, I would think they look more size appropriate in a WFC/FOC collection. Robot mode passes, but you are right about the vehicle mode. However, some modding could surely tweek the look. I mean, what is it really missing? Some neon paint lines? These figures are really fit for someone with an IDW collection, but unless you are ok that collection consisting of these two, Drift, Blurr, and maybe Kup, then in my opinion they fit in better with the video game figures. Modern G1? Hell no. Unless they repaint it as Gears. Cause Trailbreaker was BIG in comparison to the other original autobots. And the fact this looks nothing like him in robot mode.

shockblast2 wrote:And the fact this looks nothing like him in robot mode.

Because he's designed to look more like his appearance in the IDW comics, not the original cartoon.

Yes, and that is why he belongs in a IDW collection, but again, unless you want that collection to consist of five figures tops, maybe seven if you count Blitzwing or Springer, which I think both belong in a WFC/FOC collection, then for now they fit in best with that line. The point I am making is that someone who is going to try to squeeze this into a CHUG collection will be disappointed. Just like anyone who tried to pretend that FOC Shockwave was the CHUG Shockwave they long waited for.

shockblast2 wrote:The point I am making is that someone who is going to try to squeeze this into a CHUG collection will be disappointed.

I will have no problem putting this in my Classics shelf. He's representative of the original Trailbreaker, just like every other character in the Classics/Universe/Generations/Thrilling 30 lines.

Just like anyone who tried to pretend that FOC Shockwave was the CHUG Shockwave they long waited for.

I'm currently using Fall of Cybertron Shockwave as Classics/Generation One Shockwave. It works very well for me, since the two designs are very similar. Plus, the Fall of Cybertron design was repurposed as Generation One Shockwave in the "Robots in Disguise" comics, so it's a win-win situation.

Admittedly, I'm also using the Fall of Cybertron Combaticons as the original Combaticons, only because I don't own the Universe repaint of Energon Bruticus Maximus.

Just because it is Thrilling 30 or whatever does not make it a CHUG figure. As a matter of fact lets take count

FOC Springer & Blitzwing

IDW Orion Pax
IDW Bumblebee
IDW Trailbreaker
IDW Megatron

FOC Sandstorm

IDW Hoist
IDW Dreadwing
FOC Thundercracker


Yep, I see no CHUG figures at all. Because that line died in 2011. Generations means just that. By defintion, not limited to G1. And there have been none since the Junkheap wave. You can try to squeeze figures in here and there and tell yourself they are what they are not. But the fact is there is no plans for reitering the pre2011 size class nor the line itself. That is why it is not called Universe 4.0 or Classics. It is just what the title says. Generations. And unfortunately, this generation doesn't care much for G1 design.

shockblast2 wrote:FOC Springer & Blitzwing

So you're telling me that this...



... inspired this:



This Springer is based on his design by Nick Rouche. Not the Fall of Cybertron design that didn't even make it past concept stage.

Blitzwing, like every single character in the previous lines, is a reimagining of the character. Plus, none of his modes are Fall of Cybertron-themed.

IDW Orion Pax
IDW Bumblebee
IDW Trailbreaker
IDW Megatron

So since they aren't labeled as Classics or the other relevant lines, it automatically makes them seperate characters from their Generation One selves?

I suppose the same could be said for the Reveal the Shield toys that are clearly the same Generation One charaters reimagined.

FOC Sandstorm

Same as Blitzwing: never even appeared in Fall of Cybertron, reimagining of the same Generation One character.

IDW Hoist
IDW Dreadwing

Redirect toward the first four IDW-based toys.

FOC Thundercracker

...who, similarly to Shockwave, can stand in as either Fall of Cybertron Thundercracker or Generation One Thundercracker, thanks to the power of the comics.

And unfortunately, this generation doesn't care much for G1 design.

The same can be said for most figures out there, if that's the case. The first Bumblebee? Nope, let's throw that out because he isn't faithful to his Generation One design. The Voyager Optimus? Let's throw that out the window as well, since he isn't faithful either. Megatron, bye-bye; Ironhide, hasta-la-vista; Octane, sya-nara; Hound, *kick*; Mirage, boom; Kup, seeya; Blurr, shaboom; Scourge, say hello to the original Generation One Unicron toy for me; Wreck-Gar and his subsequent retools, let's take him back to Junkion; Thunderwing and Black Shadow, bada-bing-bada-boom...

Get the gist of what I'm saying here?

I can't get over how small he is. Too bad the new deluxe figures are on the small side.

shockblast2 wrote:Just because it is Thrilling 30 or whatever does not make it a CHUG figure

Do you realize how moronic that sounds? Thrilling 30 is a Generations subline. It's right there on the box. CHUG stands for Classics, Henkei, Universe, Generations.

FOC Springer & Blitzwing

Since when were these guys FoC figures? They transform into Earth vehicles.

FOC Thundercracker

No, it's IDW Thundercracker, as the comics use the WFC bodies for Cybertronian forms of their characters. People are likely to repurpose, though.

Yep, I see no CHUG figures at all.

There's a sale on glasses at Sightmart.

Because that line died in 2011.

FoC was a Generations line. That was 2012.

http://tfsource.com/japanese-generations/tg21-springer/

Springer.....an earth vehicle.....muhahahahaha

And I never recall seeing a jet plane flying around with bits of tank on its body....love to see a pic of that new technology

Whatever man. Tell yourself whatever you wsh. Bottom line, they are not CHUG. I know the G stands gor generations, but that shows you how retarded that acronym is. Generations is GENERATIONS> Different reiterations. This makes this line different than Classics or Universe as 100% of classics was g1 and 90% of Universe was as well. Just because there is a subline that is not Prime or movie related does not mean it just automatically gets classified as geewun. Only people with geewun'itis do this. You know, douches who take figures like ROTF Beachcomber, or FOC Shockwave and call them G1 because they are bitter that Hasbro never released a pure G1 version. Springer is a good example. All of you drooled over your Asian market movieverse Springer that was repackaged as a "generations" figure. Yet it looked nothing like it. Just like the Generations Voyagers Blitzwing and Springer. They are barely g1. Name and color. That is all. Springer fits in with FOC because he is a Cybertronian vehicle. You could go as far as to say that Generations Kup or Blurr are not G1 either, because both are basd on IDW.

Its sad how geewunnners hold to the past. LEts embrace the future. And the current and future fate of the GENERATIONS (pay atttention to the definition) is FOC and IDW. And then movie time.......might be 2017 or so before you see your real CHUG Trailbreaker....

shockblast2 wrote:http://tfsource.com/japanese-generations/tg21-springer/

1) That's flipping Japan, where they even listed Senator Ratbat (who is clearly representative of his humanoid appearance in the early IDW comics) under Fall of Cybertron.

2) Read on in their product description for Springer:

TFSource wrote:The Transformers Generations line continues where the classics line left off, bringing forth more modern versions of legendary bots from the G1 days. Each figure is reminiscent of the Generation bot from the same name, with a more modern styling and a great likeness to the heritage of each figure.

Springer.....an earth vehicle.....muhahahahaha

Joke's on you: who said the original Springer transformed into Cybertronian vehicles? The cartoon at that time was twenty years "into the future", where Earth vehicles could have looked like those of Springer's alternate modes.

I hardly see any reason to say this won't/doesn't fit in with other representative figures on a classics/neo-g1 shelf when I already have figures from Energon, ROTF, and even Prime sitting on mine. I guess some people out there are still butthurt that all the CHUG stuff isn't slavishly G1 in all aspects.

ON THE TOPIC OF TRAILCUTTER: I don't know why it never occurred to me that this guy would be small, the first pictures should have given it away. I'm almost considering a skip, since I'm not convinced this is going to be a 100% better stand in for the legends figure.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Aligned_continuity_family

FOC WFC PRIME IDW

Nuff said, and geewun is dead.....tuff break......2017 or bust, right?

Hi guys, little birdy told me about the discussion of Trailcutter here and whether he counts as a CHUG, WFC/FOC, or IDW toy.

Before I get into that, though, I feel I should say something about the Generations toyline itself.

The Generations toyline seems to operate in phases, with each one being themed around a different aspect of the Transformers brand.

Phase 1: WFC toys
Phase 2: Classics-style (or what many refer to as "CHUG") toys
Phase 3: FOC toys
Phase 4: Thrilling 30/IDW G1 toys

The third phase is what we are currently nearing the end of and moving gradually into the fourth. Thrilling 30 is heavily themed around the IDW G1 comics designs.

Legends class: Optimus Prime & Autobot Roller, Bumblebee & Blazemaster, Megatron & Chop Shop, Starscream & Waspinator
Deluxe class: Orion Pax, Megatron, Bumblebee, Trailcutter, Hoist, Thundercracker, Dreadwing
Voyager class: Springer, Blitzwing, Sandstorm
Titan class: Metroplex (w/ Scamper)

All of these are Thrilling 30 toys and are based on the IDW G1 comics in some form or another, be they designs directly made by IDW G1 comic artists or their bios derived from the IDW G1 comic versions of the characters.

However, the lines become a bit blurred with the WFC and FOC Generations toys due to the latest IDW G1 comics borrowing designs from the WFC and FOC video games. Thus, the Generations Deluxe class toys of Bumblebee, Soundwave, Jazz, Shockwave, Starscream, Onslaught, Blast Off, Brawl, Laserbeak, and Sideswipe could all be repurposed from their video game selves into their IDW G1 selves. And because of this, the Thirlling 30 Generations Thundercracker toy could be repurposed in reverse from his IDW G1 self into his WFC/FOC self.

As for Trailcutter himself, him being a Thrilling 30 toy, and based directly on his current IDW G1 design, peg him down as IDW G1 Trailbreaker/Trailcutter.

And since Springer kept being mentioned, he is also his IDW G1 self for two reasons. One, he's in the body of IDW G1 Springer from "Last Stand of the Wreckers" designed by Nick Roche. Two, his toy bio pegs him as a different guy from WFC/FOC Springer. TFSource's listing labeling him as a FOC toy is in error, and same with Blitzwing, Sandstorm, and Metroplex.

As for whether or not any of these count as "CHUG" figures... well, thing is, using the term "CHUG" kinda negates what the original meaning of the term was before Generations evolved into something more than just "the next Classics-style toyline". Now that Generations has grown to become its own beast with a different mindset from what the original Classics toyline had, it would probably be more fitting to use a term like "Classics-style" instead of "CHUG".

Getting to the point, it's understandible how one would see these as being "Classics-style" toys for Trailbreaker, Springer, etc. But the truth is, does the very concept of "Classics-style"/"CHUG" figures really hold much weight anymore? I mean, what original made those figures stand out was that they were toy-only modern updates of classic character, with the only real fictional appearances to their names were Classicsverse stories from Fun Publications and the Japanese Henkei! Henkei! manga. But, as of recent years, more and more of what people see as "Classics"/"CHUG" designs began showing up in more forms of media... like IDW's G1 comics.

"All Hail Megatron" and the 2009-2011 ongoing introduced character body designs taken from the Universe and Masterpiece lines, "Stormbringer" had a design for Jetfire that was used for his Classics toy, Robots in Disguise used (in addition to the WFC and FPOC designs) used more non-WFC/non-FOC Generations and United designs.

In a way, IDW's G1 comcis have gradually become more and more like the world of the Classics/CHUG toy designs, despite the Classics comics, Henkei! manga, and United manga already claiming that position.

On the other side of the Pacific, Japan's "All Spark" manga has also been going a similar route of IDW's G1 comics by using designs from the Japanese Generations and Masterpiece toys, despite the toys of the former representing their video game selves.

And then there's Fun Pub's "Wings Universe" comic series which also seems to work in a similar mindset to their Classics comics as far as character designs based on updates of classic toy characters is concerned.

At the end of the day, with such a wide array of media using the character designs of toys from Classics, Henkei!, Universe, Generations, United, Reveal the Shield, and more, what defines a toy as a "CHUG" character toy vs. a toy representing a specific fictional version of a certain character has become more and more murky.

An easier way to look at this would be to just think of a "CHUG" toy as either:

• A) Any toy representing a character as s/he appeared either the comics of Classics, Henkei!, United, IDW, All Spark, or Wings Universe (discounting Masterpieces or any toy belonging to a line made specifically for a cartoon/movie), or
• B) Any toy that's simply a modern update of a classic character and isn't specifically tied to any current cartoon/movie (like what the original Classics toyline was).

Thus,
1. All of the WFC Generations toys are WFC/FOC toys
2. All of the Classics-style Generations toys released after the WFC toys but before the FOC toys are what most think of as "CHUG" toys
3. All of the FOC Generations toys are WFC/FOC toys
4. All of the Thilling 30 Generations toys are IDW G1 toys
5. Some of the WFC Generations toys can be repurposed as IDW G1 toys
6. Some of the FOC Generations toys can be repurposed as IDW G1 toys
7. Generations Thrilling 30 Deluxe Thundercracker is IDW G1 Thundercracker, but can be repurposed as his WFC/FOC self
8. Classics Jetfire is a CHUG figure based on an IDW G1 design, thus can also be used as an IDW G1 toy
9. IDW G1 toys can be seen as CHUG toys by thinking of "CHUG" less as fully encompassing the entirety of Generations and more as a synonym for "Classics-style".
10. Some CHUG/Classics-style toys can be seen as IDW G1 toys due to IDW repurposing some of their designs.
11. Some CHUG/Classics-style toys can be seen as "All Spark" toys due to All Spark repurposing some of their designs.
12. Some WFC/FOC toys can be repurposed as All Spark toys
13. Some CHUG toys can be seen as "Wings Universe" toys due to Wings Universe repurposing some of their designs.

Hope that helps.

Whoa....whoever you are....

Sabrblade to the rescue! That was a pretty comprehensive explanation. Never thought I'd actually be happy to see you wade in on a discussion.

Wait a mintue! Why is RoTF Bludgeon and Autobot Alliance Sea Spray mixed in with my CHUG collection?!?

Oh yeah, because I put them there!

The way I see it, what makes a figure fit in the CHUG line is a simple fact: I payed for the figure, I can do whatever the hell I want with it. I'm not "deluding" myself, I'm simply making the best collection I can with what is available. I swear, some people have such ridiculously high standards of what constitutes a Classics figure that the original Classics no longer belong in that group.

I have a fairly strict aesthetic that I adhere to in my CHUG collection, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with Trailbreaker, and why he won't integrate with the other figures perfectly well. This isn't a FOC Shockwave debacle, where one of the most powerful Decepticons is not only painfully small, but also thin and lightweight. Generations Thundering is also waaay too small.

On the other hand, Trailbreaker is a fairly unremarkable 'rank and file' character who suits being a deluxe (albeit one on the smaller side) perfectly well. I also have ROTF Bludgeon in my collection, the mould was never intended for ROTF though and I think you can see that in its design. Not sure about that Seaspray being that he is massive. iGear's version is better IMO.

Nice toy to be sure, however...

Too small. Trailbreaker is supposed to be a robust bot. Showing him next to Bumblebee is so damning in that regard. How is the Hoist remold supposed to tow anyone?

Hasbro has a baffling take on this G1 stuff. It truly makes no sense. With one hand they cater to a group of collectors with intense nostalgia and money to burn, yet at the same time they repeatedly produce product that leaves the majority of these collectors unfulfilled.

You can chalk it up to fan-boy whining or nerd rage all you like, but the issue is fairly legit at this point and it just doesn't seem to get any better.

It's almost as if Hasbro recognizes that "Classics" collectors exist, yet has no interest in tapping into the market with anything other than a tepid toe.

Now before someone goes about shouting "Metroplex! Springer! Blitzwing! Don't forget you entitled prick!", I have to say..."Yeah, good stuff. Those three... Now why can't that sort of thing carry on to other characters?" The fact that all these heritage characters are not treated with the same kind of weight just leaves me shrugging and wondering when a 3rd party will step up in some other way.

All things considered, I think Trailbreaker will scale okay with most of the "Classics" bots... and to fix the ole Bumblebee quandary here, swapping in iGear's minibots — or Hasbro's Legends minibots, if you're a purist — will repair the odd scale issue fairly well.

Poor Classics Bumblebee is going to have to go to his own leper colony Cosmic Rust shelf. Poor bloke.

I fully agree with the guys post above. Only one variance. You say that the WFC designs can be used for IDW designs because the artists are using them in the IDW books. I submit they are interchangable. That is the whole point of having the WFC FOC Prime & IDW designs falling under the "aligned continuity" banner. One that G1, beast wars, cyberton, animated, and the movie designs DO NOT fall under. So, by definition, a Classics Astrotrain cannot sensibly be classifed in the same collection as Generations Blitzwing. However, a Generations Hoist can and does fall under the same collection classification as FOC Starscream. It doesn't work just one way. They can be used interchangably. Thus making anyones argument that Springer, Blitzwing, Hoist, Trailbreaker, or even Thundercracker a "CHUG" figure ridicious. But, they are going to tell themselves whatever they want. I could tell that by some of the silly comments, like that FOC Shockwave is CHUG Shockwave. People who do this want it both ways, and if they want to lie to themselves by telling themsleves they are geewun, so be it. But, I guaranteee they will stick out from the rest of the figures that came in the pre 2011 GEN figures, Classics, RTS, or Universe figures. Again, I could even go as far as to say that GEN Blurr, Kup, or even Warpath are not CHUG. Warpath is in a Cybertronian tank mode, Kup is a Cybertronian truck, and Blurr is just a repaint of Drift, who is a IDW created character. My overall point is that while one could say that the WFC/FOC and IDW designs could be used interchangably in a collection, they cannot in a CHUG or Modern G1 collection. and to say that the other HCUG figures for the most part are modern reiterations is ridicious. Most of the figures from Classics, Universe, RTS, and Some Generations figures all are almost exact replicas of their G1 toys. All the seekers are the same. As are all molds under classics, and universe, except for Ironhide, Ractchet (who had strange G1 representations, and Galvatron, because the US has something against gun toys. Only when RTS came along did they start to stray from this, and only in a small capacity woth Perceptor, because they figured a modern day microscope would be a lame toy. At the end of the day people will buy what they want and make theor collections wahtever they wish.

shockblast2 wrote:I fully agree with the guys post above. Only one variance. You say that the WFC designs can be used for IDW designs because the artists are using them in the IDW books. I submit they are interchangable. That is the whole point of having the WFC FOC Prime & IDW designs falling under the "aligned continuity" banner.

Except that IDW's designs are not Aligned Continuity designs. The Thrilling 30 toys are not Aligned Continuity designs, minus Thundercracker since his design is shared between WFC/FOC and IDW G1.

Thus, Blitzwing and Springer aren't Aligned Continuity toys, but IDW toys. Springer's design especially since it existed years before the Aligned continuity even began.

shockblast2 wrote:However, a Generations Hoist can and does fall under the same collection classification as FOC Starscream.

Only thanks to IDW taking Aligned Starscream's WFC/FOC design and using it for their G1 Starscream design.

shockblast2 wrote:I could tell that by some of the silly comments, like that FOC Shockwave is CHUG Shockwave.

In a way, he can be, since IDW used that design for their current G1 Shockwave.

shockblast2 wrote:Kup is a Cybertronian truck

Erm, Kup's altmode is very much an Earthen pickup truck. A very old, non-sci-fi at that.

shockblast2 wrote:My overall point is that while one could say that the WFC/FOC and IDW designs could be used interchangably in a collection, they cannot in a CHUG or Modern G1 collection.

Tell me something. Completely putting aside the WFC/FOC designs for a moment, what is the difference between "IDW" and "CHUG"?

shockblast2 wrote:and to say that the other HCUG figures for the most part are modern reiterations is ridicious.

Um, that was the entire point of the original Classics toyline from 2006. To make modern day toys of G1 characters was the very reason for it creation.

shockblast2 wrote:Most of the figures from Classics, Universe, RTS, and Some Generations figures all are almost exact replicas of their G1 toys.

Pardon me, but have you actually handled any G1 toys before?

shockblast2 wrote:All the seekers are the same.

The Classics Seekers transform entirely by parts-forming?

shockblast2 wrote:As are all molds under classics, and universe, except for Ironhide, Ractchet (who had strange G1 representations, and Galvatron, because the US has something against gun toys. Only when RTS came along did they start to stray from this, and only in a small capacity woth Perceptor, because they figured a modern day microscope would be a lame toy.

Are you saying that a toy is only different if it's altmode is different?

shockblast2 wrote:At the end of the day people will buy what they want and make theor collections wahtever they wish.

You sound like that's a bad thing.

I myself have Marvel Crossovers Ghost Rider sitting on my Animated shelf repurposed as Animated The Fallen.

Sabrblade wrote:I myself have Marvel Crossovers Ghost Rider sitting on my Animated shelf repurposed as Animated The Fallen.

Genius! Pure, unadulterated genius!

Mindmaster wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:I myself have Marvel Crossovers Ghost Rider sitting on my Animated shelf repurposed as Animated The Fallen.

Genius! Pure, unadulterated genius!

Damn you.

Va'al wrote:

Mindmaster wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:I myself have Marvel Crossovers Ghost Rider sitting on my Animated shelf repurposed as Animated The Fallen.

Genius! Pure, unadulterated genius!

Damn you.

In my defense, I was counterpunched by the Twincast Podcast guys into getting him that purpose.

But something that was my own idea was putting Animated Blazing Lockdown next to him to serve as his unwilling/semi-willing minion in a similar vein to how Death's Head was forced to serve Unicron in the Marvel UK epic "The Legacy of Unicron!".