Paramount Transformers Universe General Thread

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Join us to discuss the movies and stuff up to date with news for the 2017 release of Transformers 5. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Quantum Surge » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:30 pm

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It's a shame that Goldsman is no longer a part of the writers' board. Surely The Last Knight didn't reach many expectations for both fans and the studio, but I kind of feel that it's best to let TLK be the final main TF movie. This might sound weird, but I feel that with the series now being 10 years old, it's best to have the Bumblebee movie and the potential Cybertron prequel be the only movies so they can take us back full circle to the 2007 movie. After that, once the hype dies down, I feel that Hasbro could then make a reboot. (I have a couple of ideas that could make it stand out from other TF works, and it's neither like this series or a CG version of G1)
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby SnoopDawg » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:47 pm

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Honestly, I'm glad Akiva Goldsman is out ... sure he may have an academy award and his screenplay also won an Oscar ... but he's just not fit for sci-fi/action movies. I remember The Last Knight getting all the hype when it was first teased with a trailer. Then comes release time and all the hype dies down due to reviews. The exact same thing is also happening with The Dark Tower which is going to be released this Friday. One of the more anticipated films of 2017 and days before it's release, there's not much hype due to early criticisms. I just hope this film is a reboot of some sorts so The Last Knight isn't cannon anymore. Otherwise, please let this movie franchise end ...

Edit: Goldsman also wrote Batman and Robin, so that's enough reason
Last edited by SnoopDawg on Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Barricade.it » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:28 pm

I don't think TF is a dead movie franchise. I think they tried to bet on this reboot and they've lost. It's right that some heads fall.

Nevertheless, TF have still a great appeal even though a radical choice like TLK has seriously damaged it (though imho TLK is far better than AOE). The only way to give this franchise some new energy is to go back to the roots and guide things in their own place, without all the mess that has nothing to do with TFuniverse itself.

I think Bee Movie will have more success than TLK right because from the first news it appears this movie will do exacty this.

In other words: they should take courage and cancel TLK and AOE and let TFs be TFs.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby kurthy » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:31 pm

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The biggest problem with the TFs movies is that my 9 year old hasn't seen one of the 5 movies. They aren't for little kids and they should work on getting kids back in the theater. He's grown up on g1, beast wars, prime, rescue bots and rid15 (also currently reading IDW) but has no interest in those movies and I have no interest in showing them to him.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Dagon » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:44 pm

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Well. There goes that quality cinematic universe, I guess. Back to bad scripts after the meisterwerk that was The Last Knight.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby JazZeke » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:22 pm

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Dagon wrote:Well. There goes that quality cinematic universe, I guess. Back to bad scripts after the meisterwerk that was The Last Knight.

Again, "Batman & Robin." I doubt quality was ever on the table.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Black Hat » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:47 am

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After the dumpster fire that was TLK? Good.

To be honest, I think the writer's room was part of the problem. Too many cooks spoil the broth. TLK was a mess of a hundred potentially good ideas all crammed into one movie. Had it focused purely on the Knights/staff storyline, or the Autobots on the run, or the Decepticons getting out of prison, it might have worked. As is, having all those story threads and ideas running through one movie was a recipe for disaster. The only movies I've seen that pull off that amount of different subplots well have been Amelie and most Coen Brothers movies, and fairly obviously comparing those to Transformers is a silly idea.

If we do get a TF6 (not counting the spinoffs) hopefully it'll be a return to form- one or two writers at most, a straightforward but solid story and plenty of robot action with only the token amount of humans.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby RAR » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:23 am

I'm disappointed the Movie Press is pretty much ignoring The Last Knight - as there is some very odd things that seem to have happened with this Movie that made it go off the rails in some uniquely bizarre ways.

I can only really conclude that Bay just used the people complaining about them being to long to not finish his movie properly at all let alone just cut what was shot. It's clear that a whole lot of what he left in was filler and that other scenes are poorly explained - over-explained or not explained at all.

I don't think the usual problems all Transformers Movie share is going to be down to a reduced run time - they will be down to Bay being incapable of doing his job properly and Paramount being incapable of approving a script that makes sense.

People say the same thing again and again and they don't listen

People say
1) The screen is to dark (even worse in 3D) and you can't tell the characters apart (even the humans sometimes)
2) The framing of scenes is just wonky and disjointed with robots and sometimes people out of frame and it's just confusing to look at.
3) The Music is to generic and repetitive and self-reverential
4) Characters just disappear and also take actions that make no sense
5) Character are in the Movie who serve no purpose who's entire presence could be trimmed to 2 lines of dialgue and a saving of millions of dollars
6) Lack of Expert approval - any technical dialogue - is ALWAYS wrong - and often the visual are wrong too.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Va'al » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:28 am

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RAR wrote:I'm disappointed the Movie Press is pretty much ignoring The Last Knight - as there is some very odd things that seem to have happened with this Movie that made it go off the rails in some uniquely bizarre ways.

I can only really conclude that Bay just used the people complaining about them being to long to not finish his movie properly at all let alone just cut what was shot. It's clear that a whole lot of what he left in was filler and that other scenes are poorly explained - over-explained or not explained at all.

I don't think the usual problems all Transformers Movie share is going to be down to a reduced run time - they will be down to Bay being incapable of doing his job properly and Paramount being incapable of approving a script that makes sense.

People say the same thing again and again and they don't listen

People say
1) The screen is to dark (even worse in 3D) and you can't tell the characters apart (even the humans sometimes)
2) The framing of scenes is just wonky and disjointed with robots and sometimes people out of frame and it's just confusing to look at.
3) The Music is to generic and repetitive and self-reverential
4) Characters just disappear and also take actions that make no sense
5) Character are in the Movie who serve no purpose who's entire presence could be trimmed to 2 lines of dialgue and a saving of millions of dollars
6) Lack of Expert approval - any technical dialogue - is ALWAYS wrong - and often the visual are wrong too.


a) probably not the right thread
b) movie media is ignoring TLK? huh?
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Windsweeper » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:47 am

Good riddance to Goldsman. After Batman and Robin, he and Schumacher should never have been left near another movie.

Same with Bay after Revenge of the Fallen.

If they do reboot the franchise I hope they stay away from horrible designs like Frenzy, Starscream, Ironhide, Wheelie, Reedman, the Twins, Jetfire, Brains, Que, Drift, Hound and Gecko. All of whom looked like rejects from the Robots movie and not Transformers.

Alien robots shouldn't have hair, buck teeth or samurai armour.

The comics work because they treat Transformers like proper sci fi and not bloody Harry Potter.

Except Barber who focuses too much on humans and gives us crap like the droid, Garrison Blackrock and Thundercracker's dog and should also be kept away from the Transformers.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Va'al » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:01 am

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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby zfogshooterz » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:13 am

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Windsweeper wrote:Good riddance to Goldsman. After Batman and Robin, he and Schumacher should never have been left near another movie.

Same with Bay after Revenge of the Fallen.

If they do reboot the franchise I hope they stay away from horrible designs like Frenzy, Starscream, Ironhide, Wheelie, Reedman, the Twins, Jetfire, Brains, Que, Drift, Hound and Gecko. All of whom looked like rejects from the Robots movie and not Transformers.

Alien robots shouldn't have hair, buck teeth or samurai armour.

The comics work because they treat Transformers like proper sci fi and not bloody Harry Potter.

Except Barber who focuses too much on humans and gives us crap like the droid, Garrison Blackrock and Thundercracker's dog and should also be kept away from the Transformers.


So you're saying you prefer the Reboot to have G1-looking characters literally?
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby partholon » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:31 am

i think things have worked out as well for the franchise as they can.

the films STILL making money, last i checked it was circa 570million worldwide so its made its production budget back so everyone gets paid.

and its been enough of a FLOP to merit a real reboot.

i hate to see something fail but it took batman and robin to get the dark knight made so hopefully despite TF5 being nowhere NEAR as bad as BnR itll serve as the launch pad for a "REAL" Transformers film wherein the characters actually look and act like their supposed to.

ive no prob with steering away from G1 - personally i'd love to see an adaptation of IDWs infiltration/escalation arc. but they NEED to get back to some core tropes.

the cons have to be proactive and an effective threat, the bots have to be on the backfoot before overcoming the odds. prime needs to act like prime and not bloody grimlock. ditto megatron needs to be scary because of who he IS and not what he looks like.

moreover they need a proper fecking reason to be on earth that isnt a mcguffin. i havent clue one why prime in the movieverse is dedicated to protecting humanity. in the comics it was simple- the cons being here was his fault. he crashed the ark into it.

if they dont want to go the ark route fine but gives us a fecking reason thats as good as that as to what their motivation is.

its ironic that TLK looks to be the one to cause all this as even some of the critics that hate whats bays done with these films concede its not the worst of them. i guess the REAL question now is with goldsman gone and the writers room in disarray WHO is gonna get handed this reboot task?
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby SnoopDawg » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:36 am

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Windsweeper wrote:Good riddance to Goldsman. After Batman and Robin, he and Schumacher should never have been left near another movie.

Same with Bay after Revenge of the Fallen.

If they do reboot the franchise I hope they stay away from horrible designs like Frenzy, Starscream, Ironhide, Wheelie, Reedman, the Twins, Jetfire, Brains, Que, Drift, Hound and Gecko. All of whom looked like rejects from the Robots movie and not Transformers.

Alien robots shouldn't have hair, buck teeth or samurai armour.

The comics work because they treat Transformers like proper sci fi and not bloody Harry Potter.

Except Barber who focuses too much on humans and gives us crap like the droid, Garrison Blackrock and Thundercracker's dog and should also be kept away from the Transformers.


Who tf is Gecko? And besides, although I agree with you about the beards and stuff, Ironhide and Starscream are really cool designs.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby william-james88 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:43 am

partholon wrote:i think things have worked out as well for the franchise as they can.

the films STILL making money, last i checked it was circa 570million worldwide so its made its production budget back so everyone gets paid.

Not really. Theatres take 50% of the revenue so that they can stay in business (they arent showing the film for free) so all the studio got back so far is at most 285 million, but more like 261 million (since its usually more like 46% that they get back). The film cost 217 million to produce but we dont know how much marketting cost. If marketting was more than 20 million, which I am sure it is, then there are still some people that havent gotten paid yet and the film might be in a deficit when all is said and done.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:52 am

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This is the best sum up of the films' criticisms I've seen:
Meanwhile the Bay films, separate from any "GEEWUN 4eva!" criticism are:
-heavily misogynistic and filled with creepy male gaze moments (usually on young/underage girl's bodies)
-filled with blatant military propaganda for some reason
-overly crude "humor" (if it was funny I *might* strike this from the list, but it's really not. It's like gross dad humor)
-have way too many racist moments (the correct amount to have would be ZERO)
-are extremely violent in a way that is inappropriate for Hasbro's main target demographic: children
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Black Hat » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:36 am

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Sabrblade wrote:This is the best sum up of the films' criticisms I've seen:
Meanwhile the Bay films, separate from any "GEEWUN 4eva!" criticism are:
-heavily misogynistic and filled with creepy male gaze moments (usually on young/underage girl's bodies)
-filled with blatant military propaganda for some reason
-overly crude "humor" (if it was funny I *might* strike this from the list, but it's really not. It's like gross dad humor)
-have way too many racist moments (the correct amount to have would be ZERO)
-are extremely violent in a way that is inappropriate for Hasbro's main target demographic: children

Allspark is that way. >:oP
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:48 am

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Black Hat wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:This is the best sum up of the films' criticisms I've seen:
Meanwhile the Bay films, separate from any "GEEWUN 4eva!" criticism are:
-heavily misogynistic and filled with creepy male gaze moments (usually on young/underage girl's bodies)
-filled with blatant military propaganda for some reason
-overly crude "humor" (if it was funny I *might* strike this from the list, but it's really not. It's like gross dad humor)
-have way too many racist moments (the correct amount to have would be ZERO)
-are extremely violent in a way that is inappropriate for Hasbro's main target demographic: children

Allspark is that way. >:oP
It's still valid criticism.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Black Hat » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:02 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
Black Hat wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:This is the best sum up of the films' criticisms I've seen:
Meanwhile the Bay films, separate from any "GEEWUN 4eva!" criticism are:
-heavily misogynistic and filled with creepy male gaze moments (usually on young/underage girl's bodies)
-filled with blatant military propaganda for some reason
-overly crude "humor" (if it was funny I *might* strike this from the list, but it's really not. It's like gross dad humor)
-have way too many racist moments (the correct amount to have would be ZERO)
-are extremely violent in a way that is inappropriate for Hasbro's main target demographic: children

Allspark is that way. >:oP
It's still valid criticism.

Debatable. TLK was unbearable dreck but most of these complaints seem like the usual offendatron "It isn't made of Tumblr humour and bitching about slavery so it's bad REEEEEEEE" twaddle one would expect from a perpetually #triggered teenaged girl who's never experienced adversity in her life.

Seriously. Considering my mother enjoyed every movie that wasn't TLK (and the reason she disliked that one was the shoddy acting, terrible storyline and Izabella, AKA the worst human sidekick the franchise has seen in a while) I'd say these "criticisms" were made by someone who doesn't understand what actual racism or misogyny are and quite frankly needs a good slap.

Seriously, let's run through these:

Misogyny: Attractive women on screen do not a misogynist movie make. No.
Military propaganda: Ech. What is with these people and the virulent hatred for the people that keep them safe?
Overly crude "humour": Hardly a complaint that can't be levelled at the vast majority of hollywood attempts at humour. Plus, at least most of the humour in the Transformers movies were at least slightly funny.
Racism: No. Not even close. The Twins' characterization was A: created by Reno Wilson (who IS black) and B: was supposed to be a pisstake of "wiggers" AKA white teens who adopt sh!tty "gangsta" culture to look cool.
Violence: Nothing outside the age rating. Not every Transformers work of fiction is aimed at the same demographic. We have IDW feeding robot spines to other robots, and those comics are regarded as some of the best fiction in the franchise.

So yeah. Get that crap outta here.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:10 am

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...Wow.

You, like, completely missed the mark on the points of every one of those criticisms.

Egad.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Black Hat » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:17 am

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Sabrblade wrote:...Wow.

You, like, completely missed the mark on the points of every one of those criticisms.

Egad.

No, you're just looking at the world through Allspark glasses. As noticable from your passive-aggressive responses.
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Barricade.it » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:25 am

Black Hat wrote:After the dumpster fire that was TLK? Good.

To be honest, I think the writer's room was part of the problem. Too many cooks spoil the broth. TLK was a mess of a hundred potentially good ideas all crammed into one movie. Had it focused purely on the Knights/staff storyline, or the Autobots on the run, or the Decepticons getting out of prison, it might have worked. As is, having all those story threads and ideas running through one movie was a recipe for disaster. The only movies I've seen that pull off that amount of different subplots well have been Amelie and most Coen Brothers movies, and fairly obviously comparing those to Transformers is a silly idea.

If we do get a TF6 (not counting the spinoffs) hopefully it'll be a return to form- one or two writers at most, a straightforward but solid story and plenty of robot action with only the token amount of humans.


I completely agree!
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby JazZeke » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:36 am

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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Va'al » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:05 pm

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Black Hat wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:...Wow.

You, like, completely missed the mark on the points of every one of those criticisms.

Egad.

No, you're just looking at the world through Allspark glasses. As noticable from your passive-aggressive responses.


Both of you, knock it the **** off.
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Va'al
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Re: Paramount looks to expand Transformers film franchise with spin-offs and more sequels

Postby Black Hat » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:06 pm

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Whoops, sorry Va'al, I get rather hot under the collar about this stuff.
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #190 - Spacebridge Sunset Boulevard
Twincast / Podcast #190:
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