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Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Agamemnon » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:30 am

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megatronus wrote:
Rated X wrote:
mooncake623 wrote:
Rated X wrote:Why didn't they make it in scale with Hasbro Grimlock ? It looks ****** being so small because the Dinobots are NOT combiners. Swoop is not a limb that he needs to be smaller. Are they going by the Dinosaur scale instead of the robot mode ? That's dumb. Grimlock's dino mode is so f'n ugly everybody displays him in robot mode (hence the upgrade kits) I suppose Sludge will be twice the size of Grimlock ? What a waste...



From above posts

Image



I have never seen this picture as I am not into video games. But I must say I am no fan of this scale choice. This is a case of where the "He's gotta be huge because he's the leader" concept doesn't work. Actually the T-Rex should be the 2nd smallest next to swoop if you go by proper dinosaur scale. And where is Snarl? Why does he always get shafted in TV series and toy lines? FOC dinobots suck. I really hope Toyworld follows up with their teaser they did a while back. If not, I might jump on the fans toys bandwagon because at least their dinosaur modes scalke well with classics. The robot modes proper scale are debatable depending on which G1 cartoon season you watch.


I think it's dubious to complain so mightily about a toy line/design when you're not even into the content it's based on.

Yeah, X has been giving this opinion on all the WfC and FoC 3P products. *shakes head*

You may not like it, X, but this is pretty spot on for FoC, and those of us who are into the video games, and the toy lines, are the target for these. The motivations of Planet X are perfectly justified. I can't wait for this to come out!
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Rated X » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:39 pm

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megatronus wrote:
Rated X wrote:
mooncake623 wrote:
Rated X wrote:Why didn't they make it in scale with Hasbro Grimlock ? It looks ****** being so small because the Dinobots are NOT combiners. Swoop is not a limb that he needs to be smaller. Are they going by the Dinosaur scale instead of the robot mode ? That's dumb. Grimlock's dino mode is so f'n ugly everybody displays him in robot mode (hence the upgrade kits) I suppose Sludge will be twice the size of Grimlock ? What a waste...



From above posts

Image



I have never seen this picture as I am not into video games. But I must say I am no fan of this scale choice. This is a case of where the "He's gotta be huge because he's the leader" concept doesn't work. Actually the T-Rex should be the 2nd smallest next to swoop if you go by proper dinosaur scale. And where is Snarl? Why does he always get shafted in TV series and toy lines? FOC dinobots suck. I really hope Toyworld follows up with their teaser they did a while back. If not, I might jump on the fans toys bandwagon because at least their dinosaur modes scalke well with classics. The robot modes proper scale are debatable depending on which G1 cartoon season you watch.


I think it's dubious to complain so mightily about a toy line/design when you're not even into the content it's based on.



There are a lot of people who don’t care about the video game and still use the FOC figures for their classics shelf. I’m one of those guys. I call it my “Ancient Cybertron” shelf and mix them with other non-Earth figures like Alpha Trion, Elita One, Orion Pax, Vector Prime, Nova Prime, etc. I have also read on here that some collectors try to pass off the Cybertronian modes as being “neo”. They even make sets for FOC Grimlock to make him look more G1, so obviously there are enough non-gamers out there to invest in.

So as long as I have a use for the figures and am willing to buy some of them, I don’t mind putting my two cents in about them. Somebody puked on Vortex and “gamers” are ok with it. Somebody thought Dinobots would help sell more units so they defied all previous fiction and made Dinosaurs “Cybertronian”. Somebody felt that Omega Supreme’s already Cybertronian Guardian robot mode wasn’t Cybertronian enough so they gave him the curse of the monkey arms. There’s plenty of room for improvement in WFC/FOC from a G1 perspective.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby megatronus » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:01 pm

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Rated X wrote:There are a lot of people who don’t care about the video game and still use the FOC figures for their classics shelf. I’m one of those guys. I call it my “Ancient Cybertron” shelf and mix them with other non-Earth figures like Alpha Trion, Elita One, Orion Pax, Vector Prime, Nova Prime, etc. I have also read on here that some collectors try to pass off the Cybertronian modes as being “neo”. They even make sets for FOC Grimlock to make him look more G1, so obviously there are enough non-gamers out there to invest in.

So as long as I have a use for the figures and am willing to buy some of them, I don’t mind putting my two cents in about them. Somebody puked on Vortex and “gamers” are ok with it. Somebody thought Dinobots would help sell more units so they defied all previous fiction and made Dinosaurs “Cybertronian”. Somebody felt that Omega Supreme’s already Cybertronian Guardian robot mode wasn’t Cybertronian enough so they gave him the curse of the monkey arms.

No one said you can't give your 2 cents. I am also one of those folks who integrate my WFC/FOC figures into my Classics collection, so that's 100% valid. Where you lose me, and where I think you're being somewhat unfair, is here:

Rated X wrote:There’s plenty of room for improvement in WFC/FOC from a G1 perspective.

You have to consider the WFC/FOC figures on their own terms first. If you just view them through the lens of G1, then you're not really giving them a chance.

The Planet X Swoop is the perfect example - you can choose to not use it in Classics, but you can't criticize it for not being larger, because it was intended to be an FOC toy, and makes perfect sense in that context.

Does that make sense?
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Rated X » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:46 pm

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megatronus wrote:
Rated X wrote:There are a lot of people who don’t care about the video game and still use the FOC figures for their classics shelf. I’m one of those guys. I call it my “Ancient Cybertron” shelf and mix them with other non-Earth figures like Alpha Trion, Elita One, Orion Pax, Vector Prime, Nova Prime, etc. I have also read on here that some collectors try to pass off the Cybertronian modes as being “neo”. They even make sets for FOC Grimlock to make him look more G1, so obviously there are enough non-gamers out there to invest in.

So as long as I have a use for the figures and am willing to buy some of them, I don’t mind putting my two cents in about them. Somebody puked on Vortex and “gamers” are ok with it. Somebody thought Dinobots would help sell more units so they defied all previous fiction and made Dinosaurs “Cybertronian”. Somebody felt that Omega Supreme’s already Cybertronian Guardian robot mode wasn’t Cybertronian enough so they gave him the curse of the monkey arms.

No one said you can't give your 2 cents. I am also one of those folks who integrate my WFC/FOC figures into my Classics collection, so that's 100% valid. Where you lose me, and where I think you're being somewhat unfair, is here:

Rated X wrote:There’s plenty of room for improvement in WFC/FOC from a G1 perspective.

You have to consider the WFC/FOC figures on their own terms first. If you just view them through the lens of G1, then you're not really giving them a chance.

The Planet X Swoop is the perfect example - you can choose to not use it in Classics, but you can't criticize it for not being larger, because it was intended to be an FOC toy, and makes perfect sense in that context.

Does that make sense?



On Swoop, the figure looks fine alone. I’m not disputing that. But I just flat out don’t like the "Me Grimlock biggest because me leader" concept. Not only does it defy G1, it also defies scientific proportions of dinosaurs. In other words it’s just silly. Just because its “official” doesn’t mean it looks good. Personally I would have scaled them all with Grimlock so I can hit both markets and maximize my profits. I’d get sales from the classics collectors who want to use them as stand ins and the Gamers who will buy them anyways. I’m not just thinking what is best for G1, I’m thinking what would have been best for business.

So are you ok with they’re being no Snarl because the almighty FOC creators didn’t feel he was important enough to include? I’m assuming there’s no Snarl based on that picture. Or is that Snarl in the picture and they axed Sludge? That's one big ass Stegosaurus. A Triceratops smaller then a Pterodactyl ? C’mon now…the FOC designers must have all been high as f**k when they came up with this stuff.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Agamemnon » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:40 pm

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I think you are missing the point, X. I don't want to necessarily speak for others, but I completely agree with Megatronus. Your complaints are aimed at something completely different from the intent of this. I don't think anyone is asking you to like the video games or not complain because things not the way you like them. But it seems really silly to complain about intentional design features that coincide with how the character appears in media/fiction that you do not follow. This guy is almost identical to how he appears in the video game, including his scale with Grimlock. Your rants seem very misplaced. Complaining about the graphical or character choices of the video game is completely irrelevant to this character. Complaining that this character is not G1 enough is irrelevant because this isn't the G1 character. Complaining about relative sizes of the dinosaurs is relevant here because PlanetX executed perfectly what they wanted to do with the sizes.

Fans of this are ecstatic because this fills a void in our collections and coincides with our enjoyment of the video game. Since you have repeatedly said that you don't play them, don't intend to play them, nor even consider them part of "Rated X's" G1 continuity, I think your choices are to accept this toy as a compromise part of your collection, or let it go. It will never live up to your expectations because it could never do so, and was never intended to do so.

Does that make sense?
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby megatronus » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:24 pm

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Agamemnon wrote:I don't want to necessarily speak for others, but I completely agree with Megatronus.

You can speak for me anytime. ;)
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Arctorro » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:05 pm

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megatronus wrote:
Agamemnon wrote:I don't want to necessarily speak for others, but I completely agree with Megatronus.

You can speak for me anytime. ;)
And in this case, me too :D

Personally I want a larger Swoop, but understand why this one is this size. Still deciding if I'll keep my pre-order.

Agamemnon wrote:I think you are missing the point, X.

Agamemnon wrote:Your rants seem very misplaced.
So, business as usual for X then ;) Best thing you can do is ignore his misplaced rants so we don't get another thread with pages of pointless arguing debating. That way there would be the odd post here and there instead of massive derailments that are carbon copies of each other :BANG_HEAD:

X wants what he wants and believes that all companies should cater to that and probably wont ever change that opinion, so maybe ignoring that opinion is the better course.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:12 pm

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Agamemnon wrote:I think you are missing the point, X. I don't want to necessarily speak for others, but I completely agree with Megatronus.

Most of the time, you can speak for me as well. ;)

Anyway, IIRC Swoop was the smallest Dinobot in G1. So for me, it's perfect in size.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby xyl360 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:37 pm

I'm keeping my preorder and I hope Planet X does the rest of them as well (including Grimlock if they can make him look more accurate than Has/Tak did):
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Rated X » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:10 am

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Arctorro wrote:
megatronus wrote:
Agamemnon wrote:I don't want to necessarily speak for others, but I completely agree with Megatronus.

You can speak for me anytime. ;)
And in this case, me too :D

Personally I want a larger Swoop, but understand why this one is this size. Still deciding if I'll keep my pre-order.

Agamemnon wrote:I think you are missing the point, X.

Agamemnon wrote:Your rants seem very misplaced.
So, business as usual for X then ;) Best thing you can do is ignore his misplaced rants so we don't get another thread with pages of pointless arguing debating. That way there would be the odd post here and there instead of massive derailments that are carbon copies of each other :BANG_HEAD:

X wants what he wants and believes that all companies should cater to that and probably wont ever change that opinion, so maybe ignoring that opinion is the better course.



If giving my opinion is considered “business as usual” than we must all be in business when we drop a comment on this site. Im not really knocking Planet X for sticking to what they consider to be screen accurate, Im knocking the WFC/FOC designers for taking crappy ideas and putting them on screen in the first place. Maybe you like monkey arms, puke paintjobs, and horribly scaled teams designed by someone who thinks they’re being innovative. To each their own. But on the flip side, it wouldn’t have hurt for Planet X to change some of the less popular choices the WFC/FOC designers made when they create the figures. Why not ? They do it all the time to G1 characters when they get a figure, it’s called “neo". So why not “fix” the WFC/FOC designs to make them more marketable to a diverse crowd of fans. That would be good for business. If it makes dollars it makes sense. If Hasbro can deviate from official scale and make an ultra class Powerglide and a voyager class Seaspray all in the name of better sales, why cant planet X do the same thing ? The Dinobots being different scales is stupid. Grimlock being the biggest is stupid. The designers of WFC/FOC made some stupid choices in my opinion. Of course me calling these things stupid is my PERSONAL OPINION and Im not speaking for anyone by myself. But if you go back and read previous negative comments made about WFC/FOC aesthetic on this site, I doubt that I’m alone. I’m just saying Planet X can make a lot more money if they make changes based on some of these complaints and create “neo” WFC/FOC figures. If it’s ok to alter G1 aesthetic to make it more “cool”, why not alter WFC/FOC? There’s plenty of room for improvement. Or are the WFC/FOC designers gods that crap perfection out their rear end?

BTW: just saw the new image of the 5th dinobot posted.

Also, I'm not trying to be an ass to you. I'm just asking you to take my question seriously instead of the same old "it's just BS because it's coming out of X's mouth" stance. I call it like I see it. You might see it differently. That doesn't make either of us wrong or right. It just means we have adversarial positions.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby mooncake623 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:40 am

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Rated X wrote:
Words...
Not only does it defy G1, it also defies scientific proportions of dinosaurs. In other words it’s just silly...
Words



Image

What? so the Pterodactyl should be the same size as the t-rex?
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby megatronus » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:47 am

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I personally don't think your comments are BS. You often force me to think about how I came to an opinion, which is extremely valuable. Yeah, you tend to get kicked around more than most, but you are definitely an appreciated presence.

But, it feels like you miss the point sometimes - this feeling is compounded when you fail to acknowledge the validity of others' views.

If they were going to "fix" WFC/FOC designs, then they would probably have just done a separate, Classics Swoop. But they're not doing that; they're giving us a WFC/FOC Swoop. Sure, we've developed this concept called Classics or neo or whatever that allows us to accept liberal interpretations of character designs, but that doesn't work for everything. Especially when it seems logical for fans of the video game to want a video game accurate figure. Call me crazy. Plus, Planet X already knows this is a money maker; Genesis did fantastically well, and that was a $360 toy!

As to the WFC/FOC designs themselves, you're free to think they're crap, but I like them a lot. I think a lot of your criticism (outside of size issues) comes from Hasbro's poor toy execution of the designs. High Moon did a great job on the designs themselves, I think, which really comes through in the games.

Also Sludge was killed as part of the FOC backstory, which is why he doesn't have a playable character model.
Last edited by megatronus on Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Rated X » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:48 am

Motto: ""Assumption is the mother of all screw ups.""
Weapon: Saw-Edged Pincer
mooncake623 wrote:
Rated X wrote:
Words...
Not only does it defy G1, it also defies scientific proportions of dinosaurs. In other words it’s just silly...
Words



Image

What? so the Pterodactyl should be the same size as the t-rex?


Actually, I was referring to the first picture posted of 4 Dinobots where Swoop is bigger than Slag. How is Slag going to be the smallest ? Can you honestly defend that decision by the FOC designers ? Do you want Planet X to design a screen accurate mini me Slag ? Or would you rather them beef him up to G1 proportions ?
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby mooncake623 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:27 am

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Rated X wrote:
mooncake623 wrote:
Rated X wrote:
Words...
Not only does it defy G1, it also defies scientific proportions of dinosaurs. In other words it’s just silly...
Words



Image

What? so the Pterodactyl should be the same size as the t-rex?


Actually, I was referring to the first picture posted of 4 Dinobots where Swoop is bigger than Slag. How is Slag going to be the smallest ? Can you honestly defend that decision by the FOC designers ? Do you want Planet X to design a screen accurate mini me Slag ? Or would you rather them beef him up to G1 proportions ?


Oh ok.. that makes your comment more sensible. Not going to defend anything. It is what it is. Just move on and say it's not for you. you'll be less angry in life. =]
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Agamemnon » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:46 pm

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mooncake623 wrote:
Rated X wrote:
mooncake623 wrote:
Rated X wrote:
Words...
Not only does it defy G1, it also defies scientific proportions of dinosaurs. In other words it’s just silly...
Words



Image

What? so the Pterodactyl should be the same size as the t-rex?


Actually, I was referring to the first picture posted of 4 Dinobots where Swoop is bigger than Slag. How is Slag going to be the smallest ? Can you honestly defend that decision by the FOC designers ? Do you want Planet X to design a screen accurate mini me Slag ? Or would you rather them beef him up to G1 proportions ?


Oh ok.. that makes your comment more sensible. Not going to defend anything. It is what it is. Just move on and say it's not for you. you'll be less angry in life. =]

Yeah, but again, X, your rant is misplaced. Planet X is producing figures that are consistent with the video games. If you have a problem with the video games (or Hasbro for that matter) why not express that in those threads elsewhere? They have no bearing on this product or the stated intent of Planet X (which is to produce fairly game accurate toys). Complaints of FoC designs are really lost in a thread that is not about FoC designs except as they are executed by someone trying to mimic those designs.

To me, it's a bit like complaining that Chevy doesn't produce a proper looking Taurus. That's not Chevy's intent. Just like it's not Planet X's intent to produce a "neo" G1 Swoop.

(As an aside, this is the reason I continue to engage Rated X and not dismiss him. Indeed, sometimes he falls into the habit of ranting and missing the point, but he's a decent guy with some very valid opinions. Additionally, like Megatronus stated, these comments make me think. I can tell that the opinions are misplaced and the reasoning is flawed, but I have to think hard and clearly about why, so that I can counter them. It's the fun part about debating, in my opinion. I hate so many other boards where these sorts of debates break down into emotional mud slinging or outright trolling. These boards are well moderated to avoid that, and I've not seen X really go that route. Occasionally there's a straw man like asking how we can like the FoC designs when they depart so much from G1 concepts, but that's where I try to bring the discussion back to the subject and point out that those sorts of arguments are irrelevant to the product at hand. It helps me exercise my mind and reasoning, something I love to do.)

Back to the discussion at hand...
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Rated X » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:03 pm

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megatronus wrote:I personally don't think your comments are BS. You often force me to think about how I came to an opinion, which is extremely valuable. Yeah, you tend to get kicked around more than most, but you are definitely an appreciated presence.

But, it feels like you miss the point sometimes - this feeling is compounded when you fail to acknowledge the validity of others' views.

If they were going to "fix" WFC/FOC designs, then they would probably have just done a separate, Classics Swoop. But they're not doing that; they're giving us a WFC/FOC Swoop. Sure, we've developed this concept called Classics or neo or whatever that allows us to accept liberal interpretations of character designs, but that doesn't work for everything. Especially when it seems logical for fans of the video game to want a video game accurate figure. Call me crazy. Plus, Planet X already knows this is a money maker; Genesis did fantastically well, and that was a $360 toy!

As to the WFC/FOC designs themselves, you're free to think they're crap, but I like them a lot. I think a lot of your criticism (outside of size issues) comes from Hasbro's poor toy execution of the designs. High Moon did a great job on the designs themselves, I think, which really comes through in the games.

Also Sludge was killed as part of the FOC backstory, which is why he doesn't have a playable character model.



I appreciate that. :D

It's no secret I’m not a big FOC fan. I will argue to the end of time that Vortex's puke color was an error. They probably sent Activision a picture of Energon Stormcloud by mistake and they rolled with it. But that’s just my opinion. I guess I’m a little harsh on Planet X because fans have been calling for 3rd party Dinobots way before WFC/FOC ever existed. And when we finally get some, the company wants to do something so niche. It’s kind of a slap in the face to those who have been collecting classics figures for years and want to complete the G1 lineup. (Just my personal opinion as well) I’m sure we’ll see Planet X Shrapnel and Bombshell in the future. I might actually buy those because the Insecticons actually did come from Cybertron. I kind of see WFC/FOC the same way I see Hearts of Steel. It’s a niche continuity that will never get a full line of toys. MMC had plans for HOS Insecticons and I think Megatron too. But they eventually moved on when they realized classics was where the money is at. My guess Planet X will do the same. We will all see how well WFC/FOC sells once the Swoop figure comes out. It might be a hit or it might flop. Then we shall see how many “hardcore” WFC/FOC fans there really are. Genesis is still in stock at BBTS because everyone who wanted one already has one. But the high price might also be a factor that it isn’t selling like it first did. Or of course it could be the Monkey Arms, lol. That’s the only reason I went with YOTS Omega. Only time will tell how Planet X will fare in today’s 3rd party market. More and more companies keep popping up out of the woodwork.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Twitchythe3rd » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:40 pm

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Well, they've got my attention. If this leads to a Not-Sludge I will be incredibly happy.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Banjo-Tron » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:26 pm

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I agree with mr. X on this one, I mean I don't feel any ire towards planet x but them producing swoop reduces the chance of someone doing a more G1 appropriate figure. Some people will love the FOC aesthetic, some will be fine putting this in their 'classicsverse' collection, all power to them but I will not be doing that. I need something not so at odds stylistically with my other figures. Scale is less of an issue for me than aesthetic.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Agamemnon » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:30 pm

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Banjo-Tron wrote:I agree with mr. X on this one, I mean I don't feel any ire towards planet x but them producing swoop reduces the chance of someone doing a more G1 appropriate figure. Some people will love the FOC aesthetic, some will be fine putting this in their 'classicsverse' collection, all power to them but I will not be doing that. I need something not so at odds stylistically with my other figures. Scale is less of an issue for me than aesthetic.

Well, there was that one more G1 Swoop from a 3P. (I wonder what happened to that project...) Personally I have Energon Swoop standing in for my G1 Swoop.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Arctorro » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:28 pm

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The Dinosaur scale thing is a bit subjective. If you want to go with G1 accurate Dino modes then Sludge as an Apatosaurus should be massive!
Image
And Swoop should be tiny!
Image

But there are so many different Dinosaurs and Pterosaurs that any scale can be justified ;)
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So this Swoop, based on the Pteranodon, is in fact much closer to real life scale.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby xyl360 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:25 pm

Rated X wrote:
megatronus wrote:I personally don't think your comments are BS. You often force me to think about how I came to an opinion, which is extremely valuable. Yeah, you tend to get kicked around more than most, but you are definitely an appreciated presence.

But, it feels like you miss the point sometimes - this feeling is compounded when you fail to acknowledge the validity of others' views.

If they were going to "fix" WFC/FOC designs, then they would probably have just done a separate, Classics Swoop. But they're not doing that; they're giving us a WFC/FOC Swoop. Sure, we've developed this concept called Classics or neo or whatever that allows us to accept liberal interpretations of character designs, but that doesn't work for everything. Especially when it seems logical for fans of the video game to want a video game accurate figure. Call me crazy. Plus, Planet X already knows this is a money maker; Genesis did fantastically well, and that was a $360 toy!

As to the WFC/FOC designs themselves, you're free to think they're crap, but I like them a lot. I think a lot of your criticism (outside of size issues) comes from Hasbro's poor toy execution of the designs. High Moon did a great job on the designs themselves, I think, which really comes through in the games.

Also Sludge was killed as part of the FOC backstory, which is why he doesn't have a playable character model.



I appreciate that. :D

It's no secret I’m not a big FOC fan. I will argue to the end of time that Vortex's puke color was an error. They probably sent Activision a picture of Energon Stormcloud by mistake and they rolled with it. But that’s just my opinion. I guess I’m a little harsh on Planet X because fans have been calling for 3rd party Dinobots way before WFC/FOC ever existed. And when we finally get some, the company wants to do something so niche. It’s kind of a slap in the face to those who have been collecting classics figures for years and want to complete the G1 lineup. (Just my personal opinion as well) I’m sure we’ll see Planet X Shrapnel and Bombshell in the future. I might actually buy those because the Insecticons actually did come from Cybertron. I kind of see WFC/FOC the same way I see Hearts of Steel. It’s a niche continuity that will never get a full line of toys. MMC had plans for HOS Insecticons and I think Megatron too. But they eventually moved on when they realized classics was where the money is at. My guess Planet X will do the same. We will all see how well WFC/FOC sells once the Swoop figure comes out. It might be a hit or it might flop. Then we shall see how many “hardcore” WFC/FOC fans there really are. Genesis is still in stock at BBTS because everyone who wanted one already has one. But the high price might also be a factor that it isn’t selling like it first did. Or of course it could be the Monkey Arms, lol. That’s the only reason I went with YOTS Omega. Only time will tell how Planet X will fare in today’s 3rd party market. More and more companies keep popping up out of the woodwork.

See, I think your logic is flawed there. Classics/Generations etc. obviously is "neo" or whatever, but WfC/FoC is its own continuity/style so a company doing "neo" (Classics/figures designed to fit in with Classics) can do that all they want, but a company attempting to do screen accurate versions of WfC/FoC should stick to the source material and attempt to make them as accurate as possible.

If you want truly "G1" then go for MP. Then you won't have to worry about the whole "neo" thing, the "video game" thing, the "movie" thing or any other "thing" you don't like. But you won't do that because they take up too much space on your shelf apparently. Sure, there are plenty of collectors still holding on to hopes of someday completing their "G1" Classics collections, but the reality is that at least for now, Has/Tak are working from the IDW comics more than they are the G1 cartoons and fiction for their Generations line and they're putting all of their "G1" efforts into the MP line. The third party "Classics" scene will dry up before long I think, as soon as more collectors finally reconcile the idea that to get the "ultimate" G1 lineup on their shelves, MP is the way to go, not Classics/Generations.

As for me, just as long as Planet X keeps doing the game accurate figures of characters that Has/Tak won't do from WfC and FoC, I'll keep on buying them and I'm not alone. I think Planet X's business model is very smart. They found a niche market of collectors that no one else is catering to and they're running with it. If they compromised that to try and cater to the "Classics" crowd as well (the crowd that pretty much every other third party is fighting over, hence the 2 Devastators, 3 Predakings, 2 sets of Headmasters etc.) then they'd be competing with every other third party out there plus Has/Tak. That doesn't seem like smart business to me. If FP, MMC, Maketoys, TFC and all these other third parties keep trying to fill the same gaps (the "Classics" gaps) then eventually some of them will go out of business unless they start doing what companies like Planet X here are doing, namely catering to a part of the collector market that no one else is.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Rated X » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:29 am

Motto: ""Assumption is the mother of all screw ups.""
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xyl360 wrote:
Rated X wrote:
megatronus wrote:I personally don't think your comments are BS. You often force me to think about how I came to an opinion, which is extremely valuable. Yeah, you tend to get kicked around more than most, but you are definitely an appreciated presence.

But, it feels like you miss the point sometimes - this feeling is compounded when you fail to acknowledge the validity of others' views.

If they were going to "fix" WFC/FOC designs, then they would probably have just done a separate, Classics Swoop. But they're not doing that; they're giving us a WFC/FOC Swoop. Sure, we've developed this concept called Classics or neo or whatever that allows us to accept liberal interpretations of character designs, but that doesn't work for everything. Especially when it seems logical for fans of the video game to want a video game accurate figure. Call me crazy. Plus, Planet X already knows this is a money maker; Genesis did fantastically well, and that was a $360 toy!

As to the WFC/FOC designs themselves, you're free to think they're crap, but I like them a lot. I think a lot of your criticism (outside of size issues) comes from Hasbro's poor toy execution of the designs. High Moon did a great job on the designs themselves, I think, which really comes through in the games.

Also Sludge was killed as part of the FOC backstory, which is why he doesn't have a playable character model.



I appreciate that. :D

It's no secret I’m not a big FOC fan. I will argue to the end of time that Vortex's puke color was an error. They probably sent Activision a picture of Energon Stormcloud by mistake and they rolled with it. But that’s just my opinion. I guess I’m a little harsh on Planet X because fans have been calling for 3rd party Dinobots way before WFC/FOC ever existed. And when we finally get some, the company wants to do something so niche. It’s kind of a slap in the face to those who have been collecting classics figures for years and want to complete the G1 lineup. (Just my personal opinion as well) I’m sure we’ll see Planet X Shrapnel and Bombshell in the future. I might actually buy those because the Insecticons actually did come from Cybertron. I kind of see WFC/FOC the same way I see Hearts of Steel. It’s a niche continuity that will never get a full line of toys. MMC had plans for HOS Insecticons and I think Megatron too. But they eventually moved on when they realized classics was where the money is at. My guess Planet X will do the same. We will all see how well WFC/FOC sells once the Swoop figure comes out. It might be a hit or it might flop. Then we shall see how many “hardcore” WFC/FOC fans there really are. Genesis is still in stock at BBTS because everyone who wanted one already has one. But the high price might also be a factor that it isn’t selling like it first did. Or of course it could be the Monkey Arms, lol. That’s the only reason I went with YOTS Omega. Only time will tell how Planet X will fare in today’s 3rd party market. More and more companies keep popping up out of the woodwork.

See, I think your logic is flawed there. Classics/Generations etc. obviously is "neo" or whatever, but WfC/FoC is its own continuity/style so a company doing "neo" (Classics/figures designed to fit in with Classics) can do that all they want, but a company attempting to do screen accurate versions of WfC/FoC should stick to the source material and attempt to make them as accurate as possible.

If you want truly "G1" then go for MP. Then you won't have to worry about the whole "neo" thing, the "video game" thing, the "movie" thing or any other "thing" you don't like. But you won't do that because they take up too much space on your shelf apparently. Sure, there are plenty of collectors still holding on to hopes of someday completing their "G1" Classics collections, but the reality is that at least for now, Has/Tak are working from the IDW comics more than they are the G1 cartoons and fiction for their Generations line and they're putting all of their "G1" efforts into the MP line. The third party "Classics" scene will dry up before long I think, as soon as more collectors finally reconcile the idea that to get the "ultimate" G1 lineup on their shelves, MP is the way to go, not Classics/Generations.

As for me, just as long as Planet X keeps doing the game accurate figures of characters that Has/Tak won't do from WfC and FoC, I'll keep on buying them and I'm not alone. I think Planet X's business model is very smart. They found a niche market of collectors that no one else is catering to and they're running with it. If they compromised that to try and cater to the "Classics" crowd as well (the crowd that pretty much every other third party is fighting over, hence the 2 Devastators, 3 Predakings, 2 sets of Headmasters etc.) then they'd be competing with every other third party out there plus Has/Tak. That doesn't seem like smart business to me. If FP, MMC, Maketoys, TFC and all these other third parties keep trying to fill the same gaps (the "Classics" gaps) then eventually some of them will go out of business unless they start doing what companies like Planet X here are doing, namely catering to a part of the collector market that no one else is.



On MP stuff, I’ve never been a fan of big figures. Their height kind of gives me the “Barbie doll” creeps. I did buy MP Grimlock because he scales with classics nicely. I bought MP Soundwave just for the cassettes and have yet to transform him once in over two months lol. I have a military formation of MP Seekers on my coffee table because they make a great conversation piece. But that’s where my love for MP figures ends. But the 3rd parties are bringing “neo” to the MP scale. MMC Hexatron is my primary example. He is truly MP scale by the G1 cartoon standards. And if you look at Warbotron’s individual robot modes, notice Vortex has his helicopter cockpit on his chest similar to the FP/Energon mold. Onslaught also has his cab windows on his chest giving him a very Prime like appearance. So “neo” is invading the MP scale universe, unless of course you only buy Has/Tak MP figures and live with their gaps all over again. And I just cant see obscure characters ever getting a MP figure from anyone. MP Dion ? MP Alicon ? How about MP Counterpunch ? I don’t see it happening with MP scale. And if it ever did, would they make an MP Metroplex the size of a human so they can have a base that’s “in scale” ? The MP scale is much more suited for buying your favorite characters than trying to assemble a cast of any G1 season in my honest opinion.

On FOC being used as “neo” it’s just sugarcoating on behalf of the collector and Im pretty sure Im not the only one who does it. I do the same thing with TF Prime figures. I use Beast Hunters Shockwave with my classics and just call all his spikes and more sleek cannon “neo”. FOC Soundwave, Soundblaster, Blaster and Twincast (custom) have all been my classics shelf for some time. Their crappy “discs” have been upgraded to Perfect Effect, KFC, and MP cassettes which scale perfectly by G1 cartoon standards. And good old G2 FOC Bruticus sits with my G2 classics Decepticons, also as a “neo” tribute to what Bruticus might have been reformatted into by the time G2 started. I use the Takara versions as the “renegade Decepticons” on my ancient Cybertron shelf since it is a G1 reference from my favorite episode “Starscream’s Brigade”. I know I’m not the only one who does stuff like this. I’m fairly confident Planet X Swoop will end up in a lot more classics shelves than it will WFC/FOC shelves. That’s just my personal opinion of course. Maybe some hardcore WFC/FOC collectors will put him next to their totally screen accurate FOC Air Raid. That is unless theyre too busy trying to decide which Prime they want to be the leader (WFC or FOC) to ensure total screen accuracy without leaving a gap. FOC Wreckers anyone ? I’m just playing, but you get my point right ?

When MMC came out, everybody thought that they were strictly HOS. Then all of a sudden the switched to classics and I bet they have no regrets. As I said before, Im fairly confident Planet X will do the same. I heard they were going to do a Trypticon. Im pretty sure they might try to fill the insecticon gaps. But all these things take years if they happen after all the Dinobots are finished. And in years will WFC/FOC still be relevant ? Or will Hasbro have a new game and bless us with yet another Prime, Megatron, Bumblebee, and trio of Seekers ?

On IDW molds, with the exception of Bumblebee and Megatron, all the other figures are reminiscent of their G1 incarnations and work fairly well on a classics shelf for most (Blurr, Drift, Orion Pax, Trailcutter, Hoist, Springer, Toyworld Orion, etc)
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Agamemnon » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:53 pm

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You do realize, X, that WfC and FoC function well as pre-earth Cybertronian modes for many of us, right X? Image

This is relevant because it doesn't just pigeonhole me into being a WfC/FoC purist, which is what you seem to be implying...
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Dead Metal » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:37 pm

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Why are we complaining about FOC Swoop being in scale with the figures he's intended to compliment?

You want a Classics Swoop that's larger? Go get the Classics Swoop that other company is making.
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Re: Planet X version PX-02 Caelus (FOC Dinobot Swoop)

Postby Banjo-Tron » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:36 pm

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Dead Metal wrote:Why are we complaining about FOC Swoop being in scale with the figures he's intended to compliment?

You want a Classics Swoop that's larger? Go get the Classics Swoop that other company is making.

What other swoop? Linky please :D
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