The Energon Pub

Plenty of action figures are made on Kickstarter. I own several. The majority of figure projects get funded, and many exceed goals.

Scaleface wrote:Plenty of action figures are made on Kickstarter. I own several. The majority of figure projects get funded, and many exceed goals.

Can you compile a list of transformable robot action figures that have successfully been funded through kickstarter?

Rated X wrote:

Scaleface wrote:Plenty of action figures are made on Kickstarter. I own several. The majority of figure projects get funded, and many exceed goals.

Can you compile a list of transformable robot action figures that have successfully been funded through kickstarter?

Is that really necessary, X? Are you worried about investing in this one? If you aren't even going to invest, just sit back and watch the results.

Rated X wrote:

Scaleface wrote:Plenty of action figures are made on Kickstarter. I own several. The majority of figure projects get funded, and many exceed goals.

Can you compile a list of transformable robot action figures that have successfully been funded through kickstarter?

That would be a rather silly search, since PWTToo are not transforming robot action figures. They are 6 inch human and alien action figures.

But as for successful action figure kickstarters... IAmElemental, Be A Super Hero, Skelton Warriors, Virtruvian HACKS, Amazing Heroes, Gothtropolis Raven, Legends of Cthulu, Amazing Heroes 1.5, Modibot, HeroME, and BMOG all successfully funded. Plus tons of non-articulated vinyl figures.

Right now there is a set of action figures called Knights of the Slice put together by a toy review podcast, and it's 78% funded and has 16 days left, so it looks like it's funding soon.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/92 ... =discovery

Scaleface wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Scaleface wrote:Plenty of action figures are made on Kickstarter. I own several. The majority of figure projects get funded, and many exceed goals.

Can you compile a list of transformable robot action figures that have successfully been funded through kickstarter?

That would be a rather silly search, since PWTToo are not transforming robot action figures. They are 6 inch human and alien action figures.

But as for successful action figure kickstarters... IAmElemental, Be A Super Hero, Skelton Warriors, Virtruvian HACKS, Amazing Heroes, Gothtropolis Raven, Legends of Cthulu, Amazing Heroes 1.5, Modibot, HeroME, and BMOG all successfully funded. Plus tons of non-articulated vinyl figures.

Right now there is a set of action figures called Knights of the Slice put together by a toy review podcast, and it's 78% funded and has 16 days left, so it looks like it's funding soon.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/92 ... =discovery

Actually its not a silly search because the target audience happens to be buyers of transformable robots that homage hasbro owned characters. The same buyers that swear by video reviews and nitpick every little flaw before they are willing to shell out a dollar. Thats the hardest crowd to please. You cant compare them to collectors of traditional superhero style action figures. Transformer collectors are in a class of their own. So let me rephrase my request.

Can you compile a list of transformers inspired action figures (transformable or non transformable) that have been successfully funded through kickstarter ?

Rated X wrote:

Scaleface wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Scaleface wrote:Plenty of action figures are made on Kickstarter. I own several. The majority of figure projects get funded, and many exceed goals.

Can you compile a list of transformable robot action figures that have successfully been funded through kickstarter?

That would be a rather silly search, since PWTToo are not transforming robot action figures. They are 6 inch human and alien action figures.

But as for successful action figure kickstarters... IAmElemental, Be A Super Hero, Skelton Warriors, Virtruvian HACKS, Amazing Heroes, Gothtropolis Raven, Legends of Cthulu, Amazing Heroes 1.5, Modibot, HeroME, and BMOG all successfully funded. Plus tons of non-articulated vinyl figures.

Right now there is a set of action figures called Knights of the Slice put together by a toy review podcast, and it's 78% funded and has 16 days left, so it looks like it's funding soon.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/92 ... =discovery

Actually its not a silly search because the target audience happens to be buyers of transformable robots that homage hasbro owned characters. The same buyers that swear by video reviews and nitpick every little flaw before they are willing to shell out a dollar. Thats the hardest crowd to please. You cant compare them to collectors of traditional superhero style action figures. Transformer collectors are in a class of their own. So let me rephrase my request.

Can you compile a list of transformers inspired action figures (transformable or non transformable) that have been successfully funded through kickstarter ?

So you think that you, as a Transformers collector, are somehow better or have higher standards than other collectors? Please.

Besides, this company is appealing to other constituencies, such as MOTU, among others.

megatronus wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Scaleface wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Scaleface wrote:Plenty of action figures are made on Kickstarter. I own several. The majority of figure projects get funded, and many exceed goals.

Can you compile a list of transformable robot action figures that have successfully been funded through kickstarter?

That would be a rather silly search, since PWTToo are not transforming robot action figures. They are 6 inch human and alien action figures.

But as for successful action figure kickstarters... IAmElemental, Be A Super Hero, Skelton Warriors, Virtruvian HACKS, Amazing Heroes, Gothtropolis Raven, Legends of Cthulu, Amazing Heroes 1.5, Modibot, HeroME, and BMOG all successfully funded. Plus tons of non-articulated vinyl figures.

Right now there is a set of action figures called Knights of the Slice put together by a toy review podcast, and it's 78% funded and has 16 days left, so it looks like it's funding soon.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/92 ... =discovery

Actually its not a silly search because the target audience happens to be buyers of transformable robots that homage hasbro owned characters. The same buyers that swear by video reviews and nitpick every little flaw before they are willing to shell out a dollar. Thats the hardest crowd to please. You cant compare them to collectors of traditional superhero style action figures. Transformer collectors are in a class of their own. So let me rephrase my request.

Can you compile a list of transformers inspired action figures (transformable or non transformable) that have been successfully funded through kickstarter ?

So you think that you, as a Transformers collector, are somehow better or have higher standards than other collectors? Please.

Besides, this company is appealing to other constituencies, such as MOTU, among others.

Read the comments on almost any thread in this 3rd party section thoroughly and you will see just how hard transformers collectors are on figures before they decide to purchase. Hell, go to the reviewers thread lol. Dont try to tell me these are the type of people that just give away money for anything that remotely looks like a transformers brand character. Im actually one of the more easier ones to please as seen in my support for impossible toys and CHMS. And as much s**t as I talk about KFC, I still own all their cassete molds in at least one color scheme. But pledging money blindly based on comic drawings is where I draw the line. You are a lot more picky than me judging by many of your comments so I figure you would frown on kickstarter as well.

Lets be real here. The PWTT dream team all built their resumes on the transformers brand. With that being said, its mostly transformers collectors who are going to judge these figures. Nobody cares about the hero mashers concept behind these figures. Nobodys going to buy a skullgrin inspired figure to give it MOTU thighs and a GI Joe head. Theyre gonna buy it to put on their transformers shelf as a classics skullgrin. Sure there will be that really weird 1% of collectors who might buy these figures for playability, but theyre in the extreme minorities.

Since you are a numbers guy, why dont you help Scalface with my request. Lets see some stats...

How many transformers brand inspired action figures have been successfully funded through kickstarter?

Usually youre the one asking me to provide factual evidence to back up my claims. But this time the roles are reversed.

X, these are action figures that may appeal to some transformers fans too. They have some transforming features, true, but we are not the only (might I even say primary) target for these. I thank Scaleface for bringing these to our attention. I actually don't have any interest in these as a Transformers collector because they tend to homage pretenders, my least favorite Transformer line. But I do have interest in that Diablo looking one, not for my Transformers collection.

And in actuality, you, X, were the one that doubted the viability of these figures. I would say that, logically, the burden of proof is on you to show data of failed Kickstarters, not Scaleface to show successful. You are practicing several logical fallacies including: onus probandi, straw man, and red herring. At least if you feel you must keep on with this discussion...

Rated X wrote:Actually its not a silly search because the target audience happens to be buyers of transformable robots that homage hasbro owned characters. The same buyers that swear by video reviews and nitpick every little flaw before they are willing to shell out a dollar. Thats the hardest crowd to please. You cant compare them to collectors of traditional superhero style action figures. Transformer collectors are in a class of their own. So let me rephrase my request.

Can you compile a list of transformers inspired action figures (transformable or non transformable) that have been successfully funded through kickstarter ?

I realize you have taken it as your own private mission to poo-poo this project, but that is really your best argument? That there has never been a kickstarter for the type of toy that this isn't? Seriously, make a real argument here X.

Agamemnon wrote:X, these are action figures that may appeal to some transformers fans too. They have some transforming features, true, but we are not the only (might I even say primary) target for these. I thank Scaleface for bringing these to our attention. I actually don't have any interest in these as a Transformers collector because they tend to homage pretenders, my least favorite Transformer line. But I do have interest in that Diablo looking one, not for my Transformers collection.

And in actuality, you, X, were the one that doubted the viability of these figures. I would say that, logically, the burden of proof is on you to show data of failed Kickstarters, not Scaleface to show successful. You are practicing several logical fallacies including: onus probandi, straw man, and red herring. At least if you feel you must keep on with this discussion...

In other words...you cant name one successful transformers inspired action figure kickstarter either ?

If I knew where to find the answer to my question on the internet, I wouldn't be asking, lol.

Isnt this the part where Saberblade appears and blesses us with the facts ?

The only successful transformers inspired kickstarter I can think of is a freaking book. I can however name a couple failures...

* Nova Prime figure based on unused Hasbro mold.

* KO ultra class onslaught repaints as Strika and Impactor.

Scaleface is really pushing these things. I have no issue with that because if my people were doing a project I would be pushing it too. All Im trying to say is kickstarter has been a failure in the world of transformer collectors. I understand it has done quite well in the super hero action figure world, but this is a transformer collectors website. Ive merely challenged Scaleface and any other advocates of kickstarter to show me some transformer inspired success stories. So far the response has been ZERO.

I personally am against placing the burden of production costs on the fandom. I say build your credit score, take out a loan to cover production costs, push the product online, and sink or swim. Risk = Reward

Rated X wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:X, these are action figures that may appeal to some transformers fans too. They have some transforming features, true, but we are not the only (might I even say primary) target for these. I thank Scaleface for bringing these to our attention. I actually don't have any interest in these as a Transformers collector because they tend to homage pretenders, my least favorite Transformer line. But I do have interest in that Diablo looking one, not for my Transformers collection.

And in actuality, you, X, were the one that doubted the viability of these figures. I would say that, logically, the burden of proof is on you to show data of failed Kickstarters, not Scaleface to show successful. You are practicing several logical fallacies including: onus probandi, straw man, and red herring. At least if you feel you must keep on with this discussion...

In other words...you cant name one successful transformers inspired action figure kickstarter either ?

If I knew where to find the answer to my question on the internet, I wouldn't be asking, lol.

Isnt this the part where Saberblade appears and blesses us with the facts ?

The only successful transformers inspired kickstarter I can think of is a freaking book. I can however name a couple failures...

* Nova Prime figure based on unused Hasbro mold.

* KO ultra class onslaught repaints as Strika and Impactor.

Scaleface is really pushing these things. I have no issue with that because if my people were doing a project I would be pushing it too. All Im trying to say is kickstarter has been a failure in the world of transformer collectors. I understand it has done quite well in the super hero action figure world, but this is a transformer collectors website. Ive merely challenged Scaleface and any other advocates of kickstarter to show me some transformer inspired success stories. So far the response has been ZERO.

I personally am against placing the burden of production costs on the fandom. I say build your credit score, take out a loan to cover production costs, push the product online, and sink or swim. Risk = Reward

Dude, why do you continue to use a straw man? What pushing has Scaleface done? You know you can ignore threads and not read/participate in everything, right? Are you looking for an argument to support the project yourself? It seems pretty apparent that you are not willing to support the project. Or are you upset because these figures will not be available through the channels with which you are familiar?

And your other argument is complete hogwash. What burden to the fandom are you talking about? We are not obligated to support this project (or any 3P project, for that matter). This is completely choice. If Play With This Too provides a compelling enough product, and can show good potential to come through with said product, then people will choose to support it. That's the beauty of Kickstarter! Free Market, man! I am eager to see how this project progresses.

Seriously, why are you spending so much effort talking down this project? Why are you making unreasonable requests to search the Internet that you yourself are not willing to do? In other words, it matters not whether Scaleface, myself, or any other person can name a successful Transformers Kickstarter. It is completely irrelevant to the Play With This Too project. It feels like you are trying to do an "Aha, gotcha!" If you are interested in this project, cool, support the Kickstarter. If not, why expend the effort you are?

Rated X wrote:In other words...you cant name one successful transformers inspired action figure kickstarter either ?

If I knew where to find the answer to my question on the internet, I wouldn't be asking, lol.

Isnt this the part where Saberblade appears and blesses us with the facts ?

The only successful transformers inspired kickstarter I can think of is a freaking book. I can however name a couple failures...

* Nova Prime figure based on unused Hasbro mold.

* KO ultra class onslaught repaints as Strika and Impactor.

Scaleface is really pushing these things. I have no issue with that because if my people were doing a project I would be pushing it too. All Im trying to say is kickstarter has been a failure in the world of transformer collectors. I understand it has done quite well in the super hero action figure world, but this is a transformer collectors website. Ive merely challenged Scaleface and any other advocates of kickstarter to show me some transformer inspired success stories. So far the response has been ZERO.

I personally am against placing the burden of production costs on the fandom. I say build your credit score, take out a loan to cover production costs, push the product online, and sink or swim. Risk = Reward

By "pushing things" you mean reporting the news?

Seriously at this point you are embarrassing yourself with the nonsense you post. You are seriously pointing to a Chinese KO maker not being able to raise money for a replacement head for Onslaught as proof of non-viability, when I post a dozen successful action figure kickstarters for my proof?

I don't know if you have an axe to grind with someone or just like to troll, and I think I need to stop feeding the troll.

Agamemnon wrote:I'm getting a Guyver feel from this one...

Put the head on a gorilla body and I see Zoanoid Ramotith.

Scaleface wrote:

Rated X wrote:In other words...you cant name one successful transformers inspired action figure kickstarter either ?

If I knew where to find the answer to my question on the internet, I wouldn't be asking, lol.

Isnt this the part where Saberblade appears and blesses us with the facts ?

The only successful transformers inspired kickstarter I can think of is a freaking book. I can however name a couple failures...

* Nova Prime figure based on unused Hasbro mold.

* KO ultra class onslaught repaints as Strika and Impactor.

Scaleface is really pushing these things. I have no issue with that because if my people were doing a project I would be pushing it too. All Im trying to say is kickstarter has been a failure in the world of transformer collectors. I understand it has done quite well in the super hero action figure world, but this is a transformer collectors website. Ive merely challenged Scaleface and any other advocates of kickstarter to show me some transformer inspired success stories. So far the response has been ZERO.

I personally am against placing the burden of production costs on the fandom. I say build your credit score, take out a loan to cover production costs, push the product online, and sink or swim. Risk = Reward

By "pushing things" you mean reporting the news?

Seriously at this point you are embarrassing yourself with the nonsense you post. You are seriously pointing to a Chinese KO maker not being able to raise money for a replacement head for Onslaught as proof of non-viability, when I post a dozen successful action figure kickstarters for my proof?

I don't know if you have an axe to grind with someone or just like to troll, and I think I need to stop feeding the troll.

First of all get off the defensive...Im a fan of your retro robot podcast and love your work. But dont think I dont notice how you dedicate more time reporting PWTT than to other more established third party companies. You did the same thing with BMOG figures which had nothing to do with transformers and failed to captivate the 3rd party fanbase. While I admit that kickstarter did succeed, it didnt exactly bridge the gap between TF and non-TF characters the way you made it sound like it would on those podcasts. It wasnt the 2nd coming of Steelcore, lol. You over covered BMOG and your doing the same thing with PWTT. It came to a point where I was like whats going to be the PWTT artwork for the day ? Every other day theres a new mash up or a new drawing. How about some plastic? I was actually shocked when I saw the first 3D printing. I honestly didnt believe it would make it that far.

Anyways, as ive repeated and repeated countless times to deaf ears, kickstarter projects havent found much success in the transformer world. This is not a MOTU, GI Joe, or Diablo website. Im not knocking any Transformers collectors who might also collect stuff inspired from those lines. All im asking you to do is show me where kickstarter has been a success in the TRANSFORMERS world. If you cant find any, theres no shame to admit it. Just say theyre trying something new thats groundbreaking and hope to expose the Transformer fandom to something different. I would totally respect an answer along those lines.

But a bunch of examples of super hero style action figures is not what I was looking for bro. Did you even look at that link you sent me that you said was 78% funded? Besides being the most blatant power ranger rip offs I have ever seen, some of the gifts for various "pledges" sounded both desperate and ridiculous. For $5000 they will fly you to NYC to be on a video and for $10,000 they will put your face on one of their figures. Dont you think even putting stuff like that online makes them sound a bit desperate for money ? I do...

Anyways ill leave it at this...I dont think transformers fans will buy into the kickstarter concept for reasons I stated earlier. Especially at this large a scale. Its not a small cheap project like the BMOG figures. PWTT seems to be over ambitious for their debut product which we have yet to see in colored plastic in a physical form. They have a ton of courage just like they have a ton of artwork. If they succeed in even getting 25% of their transformers inspired artwork made into plastic figures, ill eat my words. But if they dont, will you eat yours ?

If you dont want to share any TRANSFORMERS inspired action figure success stories through kickstarter, no worries. My guess is you dont know of any, so that makes two of us. Either way, I enjoy your work with the podcasts and the stand you take to advocate 3rd party figures on this pro-Hasbro website. We might not see eye to eye, but we play for the same team.

Agamemnon wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:X, these are action figures that may appeal to some transformers fans too. They have some transforming features, true, but we are not the only (might I even say primary) target for these. I thank Scaleface for bringing these to our attention. I actually don't have any interest in these as a Transformers collector because they tend to homage pretenders, my least favorite Transformer line. But I do have interest in that Diablo looking one, not for my Transformers collection.

And in actuality, you, X, were the one that doubted the viability of these figures. I would say that, logically, the burden of proof is on you to show data of failed Kickstarters, not Scaleface to show successful. You are practicing several logical fallacies including: onus probandi, straw man, and red herring. At least if you feel you must keep on with this discussion...

In other words...you cant name one successful transformers inspired action figure kickstarter either ?

If I knew where to find the answer to my question on the internet, I wouldn't be asking, lol.

Isnt this the part where Saberblade appears and blesses us with the facts ?

The only successful transformers inspired kickstarter I can think of is a freaking book. I can however name a couple failures...

* Nova Prime figure based on unused Hasbro mold.

* KO ultra class onslaught repaints as Strika and Impactor.

Scaleface is really pushing these things. I have no issue with that because if my people were doing a project I would be pushing it too. All Im trying to say is kickstarter has been a failure in the world of transformer collectors. I understand it has done quite well in the super hero action figure world, but this is a transformer collectors website. Ive merely challenged Scaleface and any other advocates of kickstarter to show me some transformer inspired success stories. So far the response has been ZERO.

I personally am against placing the burden of production costs on the fandom. I say build your credit score, take out a loan to cover production costs, push the product online, and sink or swim. Risk = Reward

Dude, why do you continue to use a straw man? What pushing has Scaleface done? You know you can ignore threads and not read/participate in everything, right? Are you looking for an argument to support the project yourself? It seems pretty apparent that you are not willing to support the project. Or are you upset because these figures will not be available through the channels with which you are familiar?

And your other argument is complete hogwash. What burden to the fandom are you talking about? We are not obligated to support this project (or any 3P project, for that matter). This is completely choice. If Play With This Too provides a compelling enough product, and can show good potential to come through with said product, then people will choose to support it. That's the beauty of Kickstarter! Free Market, man! I am eager to see how this project progresses.

Seriously, why are you spending so much effort talking down this project? Why are you making unreasonable requests to search the Internet that you yourself are not willing to do? In other words, it matters not whether Scaleface, myself, or any other person can name a successful Transformers Kickstarter. It is completely irrelevant to the Play With This Too project. It feels like you are trying to do an "Aha, gotcha!" If you are interested in this project, cool, support the Kickstarter. If not, why expend the effort you are?

Your an educated man Ag. You would probably kick my ass in jeopardy, who wants to be a millionaire, or Pawnography. But even you know PWTT is rowing in uncharted waters without a paddle. The fact that nobody can provide any examples of TRANSFORMERS inspired kickstarter success stories is proof enough that PWTT doesnt have the odds stacked up in their favor. I see kickstarter as taking the cautious way into the market rather then having enough confidence in their product to go all in. (money wise) The burden im referring to is basically dumping the production costs on the fandom and saying "if it doesnt happen its your fault, not ours". Even if only 10 people want a neon orange skullgrin with a MOTU head, those 10 people shouldnt be deprived because you, me, and the rest of the fandom arent interested. Thats my beef with kickstarter. The whole project can litterly get flushed down the toilet over coming just a few hundred bucks short on pledges. When they get enough pledges its all good, but when they dont and you get that dreaded e-mail saying thank you for your support, you cant help but wonder why they didnt go a different route. I would rather see PWTT put their money where their mouth is. Thats how I feel, pointblank. So Im not crapping on this project like people are accusing me of. Im just crapping on the way its being financed. Also too much artwork equals too much hype. If they would quietly do a kickstarter for ONE debut figure and see where it goes, I would be less inclined to predict such a grimm outcome for the project.

Rated X wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:X, these are action figures that may appeal to some transformers fans too. They have some transforming features, true, but we are not the only (might I even say primary) target for these. I thank Scaleface for bringing these to our attention. I actually don't have any interest in these as a Transformers collector because they tend to homage pretenders, my least favorite Transformer line. But I do have interest in that Diablo looking one, not for my Transformers collection.

And in actuality, you, X, were the one that doubted the viability of these figures. I would say that, logically, the burden of proof is on you to show data of failed Kickstarters, not Scaleface to show successful. You are practicing several logical fallacies including: onus probandi, straw man, and red herring. At least if you feel you must keep on with this discussion...

In other words...you cant name one successful transformers inspired action figure kickstarter either ?

If I knew where to find the answer to my question on the internet, I wouldn't be asking, lol.

Isnt this the part where Saberblade appears and blesses us with the facts ?

The only successful transformers inspired kickstarter I can think of is a freaking book. I can however name a couple failures...

* Nova Prime figure based on unused Hasbro mold.

* KO ultra class onslaught repaints as Strika and Impactor.

Scaleface is really pushing these things. I have no issue with that because if my people were doing a project I would be pushing it too. All Im trying to say is kickstarter has been a failure in the world of transformer collectors. I understand it has done quite well in the super hero action figure world, but this is a transformer collectors website. Ive merely challenged Scaleface and any other advocates of kickstarter to show me some transformer inspired success stories. So far the response has been ZERO.

I personally am against placing the burden of production costs on the fandom. I say build your credit score, take out a loan to cover production costs, push the product online, and sink or swim. Risk = Reward

Dude, why do you continue to use a straw man? What pushing has Scaleface done? You know you can ignore threads and not read/participate in everything, right? Are you looking for an argument to support the project yourself? It seems pretty apparent that you are not willing to support the project. Or are you upset because these figures will not be available through the channels with which you are familiar?

And your other argument is complete hogwash. What burden to the fandom are you talking about? We are not obligated to support this project (or any 3P project, for that matter). This is completely choice. If Play With This Too provides a compelling enough product, and can show good potential to come through with said product, then people will choose to support it. That's the beauty of Kickstarter! Free Market, man! I am eager to see how this project progresses.

Seriously, why are you spending so much effort talking down this project? Why are you making unreasonable requests to search the Internet that you yourself are not willing to do? In other words, it matters not whether Scaleface, myself, or any other person can name a successful Transformers Kickstarter. It is completely irrelevant to the Play With This Too project. It feels like you are trying to do an "Aha, gotcha!" If you are interested in this project, cool, support the Kickstarter. If not, why expend the effort you are?

Your an educated man Ag. You would probably kick my ass in jeopardy, who wants to be a millionaire, or Pawnography. But even you know PWTT is rowing in uncharted waters without a paddle. The fact that nobody can provide any examples of TRANSFORMERS inspired kickstarter success stories is proof enough that PWTT doesnt have the odds stacked up in their favor. I see kickstarter as taking the cautious way into the market rather then having enough confidence in their product to go all in. (money wise) The burden im referring to is basically dumping the production costs on the fandom and saying "if it doesnt happen its your fault, not ours". Even if only 10 people want a neon orange skullgrin with a MOTU head, those 10 people shouldnt be deprived because you, me, and the rest of the fandom arent interested. Thats my beef with kickstarter. The whole project can litterly get flushed down the toilet over coming just a few hundred bucks short on pledges. When they get enough pledges its all good, but when they dont and you get that dreaded e-mail saying thank you for your support, you cant help but wonder why they didnt go a different route. I would rather see PWTT put their money where their mouth is. Thats how I feel, pointblank. So Im not crapping on this project like people are accusing me of. Im just crapping on the way its being financed. Also too much artwork equals too much hype. If they would quietly do a kickstarter for ONE debut figure and see where it goes, I would be less inclined to predict such a grimm outcome for the project.

Why does that matter, X? Seriously, I think you'd be better served to get out of these PWTT threads and stop reading them. Exactly what you are talking about is pretty much the exact reason Kickstarter exists!! Imagine being able to crowd fund a project that you think is interesting and think others do as well. There's no going to a bank and convincing them of the business model; no huge risk in the credit taken out. This is a most excellent way to gauge interest in such projects, because if there is no interest, it doesn't get funded. It's a much lower risk endeavor for everyone involved.

You seem fixated on this idea that crowd funding never being successful for a transforming toy. Why does that matter? Do you know what makes this a straw man? These are not transforming toys. They may have some interest in Transformers fandom due to some of the figures being pretender homages. But there is so much more than that to the offerings. So, it's not a relevant comparison.

Why are you upset that PWTT is choosing to go this route rather than putting up their own money? Seriously, why such an ax to grind with relation to kickstarters? What's wrong with the dreaded email? If you are unsure of the success of the project, then don't contribute. Why crap on those who do want to contribute?

And also, Scaleface has done well to limit news and talk about these figures to their respective threads. If you don't like reading so much news about them, then don't open the threads. Again, it feels like you are arguing because we are making you do things. No one is...

As far as defensive, how about going back and re-reading your messages. Do you think they could have been worded better to keep people off of the defensive?

Play With This Too's Pretender Starscream homage is a character named Jetstrike. According to interviews Jetstike is actually a member of the Protectors, the heroes of the story. Part of the crowd funding plan is to sell out the rights to have your face on Jetstrike, so start saving those pennies.

His small companion is a jet that turns into a robot who is colored like the GoBot Fitor, named R-Ject.

WikiAlpha.org page - http://en.wikialpha.org/wiki/Jetstrike_ ... his_Too%29

http://www.playwiththistoo.com



There are a set of character sheets for Jetstrike and R-ject available for the Hero RPG 4th edition:

http://home.comcast.net/~mathewignash/PDFs/JETSTRIK.pdf

http://home.comcast.net/~mathewignash/PDFs/R-JECT.pdf

Also, the Head Shots replacement head named Madwing will be colored to match with the Jetstrike body, so if you want to have a figure for Madwing, you can make it from a Jetstrike body and the Head Shots Vol. 1 set.

Ag...

I dont think I was being offensive. I was just being honest. At the end of the day factories have run quotas. Theyre not going to mold 73 figures for the 73 people who pledge. Didnt the guy from the Strika kickstarter say the minimum run to move foward was around 800 orders ? Good luck with that !

As I said before, the reason transforming figures success is relevant is because the line is being marketed by people who built their resumes on the transformers brand. And on top of that, their debut figure is a homage to a transformers character. As I said earlier, transformers collectors are the most picky collectors on the planet. They swear by youtube reviews and are extremly frugal about spending "third party prices". Thats why kickstarters dont work for transformers inspired figures. The blind faith just isnt there. These fans will nitpick everything from loose joints to crappy paint application. Look at the uproar the open handed arcee is causing because her gun wont fit properly. And thats just a 15 dollar figure. Do you really think the same people are going to chance $50-65 on a skullgrin figure based on concept art. And speaking of non transformable figures, transformer fans ripped impossible toys quints, nightbird, kranix, arbilus over various QC issues. Even the new gokin alpha trion got a poopy review because of paint apps getting damaged when changing the shoulder pads to make him into A-3. There is no blind faith in the transformer fandom for any type of figure whether it transforms or not. Thats why kickstarter is the wrong way to go with this TF crowd. And PWTT is so damn cocky they keep releasing more and more artwork of figures that may never even see plastic form. Scaleface just threw up another thread for pretender starscream that I havent even looked at yet. Isnt about time PWTT put down the pen and debut some plastic already ? My opinion isnt going to change and im sure yours wont either. Ill leave it at that. Now lets take a break and enjoy the superbowl.

Rated X wrote:Ag...

I dont think I was being offensive. I was just being honest.

Do you realize that you can be non-offensive, honest, and still be accusatory and put someone on the defensive?

Rated X wrote:At the end of the day factories have run quotas. Theyre not going to mold 73 figures for the 73 people who pledge. Didnt the guy from the Strika kickstarter say the minimum run to move foward was around 800 orders ? Good luck with that !

And has been repeatedly stated, and not just by me, that these things are different than whatever came before. It doesn't matter that some other guy couldn't get interest on selling 800 pieces, unless PWTT is trying to sell exactly the same thing. You keep bringing in something that is completely different in an effort to justify your bashing of this method (kickstarter+action figures). I'd love to know what your motivaiton is in continuing this.

Rated X wrote:As I said before, the reason transforming figures success is relevant is because the line is being marketed by people who built their resumes on the transformers brand. And on top of that, their debut figure is a homage to a transformers character.

How do you know that all they did was work on Transformers? And regardless, is it not possible that they could have other interests and branch out away from where they have been before? If these were transforming figures, you may have a point, and history may be relevant. However, these are not, with only loose ties to transformers. Enough to mention here, but not enough to compare to the examples you gave (or your desire for further proof). It's apples and oranges, man...

Rated X wrote:As I said earlier, transformers collectors are the most picky collectors on the planet. They swear by youtube reviews and are extremly frugal about spending "third party prices". Thats why kickstarters dont work for transformers inspired figures.

And I am sure I have said before that generalizations are a very bad idea. This is one of those statements that you think is not offensive and "honest" but is anything but. Making a well supported argument should be possible without resorting to these sorts of faulty generalizations (another fallacy, by the way.)

Rated X wrote:The blind faith just isnt there.

What blind faith? What are you even talking about? Kickstarters don't "require" blind faith. If PWTT puts out enough information and a compelling product, they can sell this idea to enough people to fund their project. In many ways, doing a kickstarter makes much more sense than trying to sell a business plan to a bank in order to secure funds in a loan. To me, this is the perfect project for a Kickstarter.

Rated X wrote:These fans will nitpick everything from loose joints to crappy paint application. Look at the uproar the open handed arcee is causing because her gun wont fit properly. And thats just a 15 dollar figure. Do you really think the same people are going to chance $50-65 on a skullgrin figure based on concept art.

Again, this is a faulty generalization. Sure, some people reacted exactly what you stated. But to make the leap that this includes a majority of Transformer fans, or even the majority of those interested in this project, is not good logic.

Rated X wrote:And speaking of non transformable figures, transformer fans ripped impossible toys quints, nightbird, kranix, arbilus over various QC issues. Even the new gokin alpha trion got a poopy review because of paint apps getting damaged when changing the shoulder pads to make him into A-3.

Again, faulty generalization, and maybe even a straw man. Incidentally, it almost seems that you are assuming poor quality control, but this really has nothing to do with this project.

Rated X wrote:There is no blind faith in the transformer fandom for any type of figure whether it transforms or not.

And again, I have to ask about your motivation. Where is this requirement for "blind faith?" Is it part of the Kickstarter terms of service?

Rated X wrote:Thats why kickstarter is the wrong way to go with this TF crowd.

You still have failed to logically explain this. I still find that Kickstarter is the perfect platform for this sort of thing, and nothing in your arguments convinces me otherwise.

Rated X wrote:And PWTT is so damn cocky they keep releasing more and more artwork of figures that may never even see plastic form. Scaleface just threw up another thread for pretender starscream that I havent even looked at yet. Isnt about time PWTT put down the pen and debut some plastic already ? My opinion isnt going to change and im sure yours wont either. Ill leave it at that. Now lets take a break and enjoy the superbowl.

See, the bolded here is exactly why your posts are argumentative and put people on the defensive. Do you realize it?

Also, Scaleface has been great at updating the status of the project. He also provided some great justifications on why PWTT has chosen to go this route, with so many figures. Again, you can choose to not read them. Freedom is a great thing, isn't it?

I'm not even asking that you like their choice of proceeding. Time will certainly tell whether or not they are successful. I'd still like to know the motivation. Are you hoping they will fail so you can say, "see I told you so?" Because that is all I really conclude from everything you've said.

[Edit] And maybe the confusion stems from a misunderstanding of what Kickstarter is. From this linked Wikipedia article:

Wikipedia wrote:Kickstarter is one of a number of crowdfunding platforms for gathering money from the public, which circumvents traditional avenues of investment.[20][21] Project creators choose a deadline and a minimum funding goal. If the goal is not met by the deadline, no funds are collected, a kind of assurance contract.[22] Money pledged by donors is collected using Amazon Payments.[23] The platform is open to backers from anywhere in the world and to creators from the US, UK,[24] Canada,[25] Australia and New Zealand.[19]

Kickstarter takes 5% of the funds raised.[26] Amazon charges an additional 3–5%.[27] Unlike many forums for fundraising or investment, Kickstarter claims no ownership over the projects and the work they produce. The web pages of projects launched on the site are permanently archived and accessible to the public. After funding is completed, projects and uploaded media cannot be edited or removed from the site.[28]

There is no guarantee that people that post projects on Kickstarter will deliver on their projects, use the money to implement their projects, or that the completed projects will meet backers' expectations. Kickstarter advises backers to use their own judgment on supporting a project. They also warn project leaders that they could be liable for legal damages from backers for failure to deliver on promises.[29] Projects might also fail even after a successful fund raise when creators underestimate the total costs required or technical difficulties to be overcome.[30][31]

At this point, anyone who pledges money spends zero dollars until the goal is met. If the goal is not met, the project collects no money. No blind faith is necessary.

Was this a case of not understanding what Kickstarter is as a project investment vehicle?

Well I for one look forward to seeing these guys completed and appreciate Scaleface's work to keep us updated. This is shaping up to be something awesome.

Speaking of which, is the Kickstarter still up? I was planning on contributing to this.

I like it. Very Seekeresque. I'm actually planning on having the these guys in my Legends collection, with the little guys as normal sized TFs and their "shells" being gigantic suits that tower over all but the largest of Transformers.

Delta Magnus wrote:Well I for one look forward to seeing these guys completed and appreciate Scaleface's work to keep us updated. This is shaping up to be something awesome.

Speaking of which, is the Kickstarter still up? I was planning on contributing to this.

I don't think they have gone live with the kickstarters yet. I asked Scaleface if he can let us know and he said he wood. Thanks again, Scaleface!!

Well, then you will have a Legends Fitor in your collection. I wonder how this larger robot will look with a Legends Starscream from Hasbro?

Agamemnon wrote:

Rated X wrote:Ag...

I dont think I was being offensive. I was just being honest.

Do you realize that you can be non-offensive, honest, and still be accusatory and put someone on the defensive?

Rated X wrote:At the end of the day factories have run quotas. Theyre not going to mold 73 figures for the 73 people who pledge. Didnt the guy from the Strika kickstarter say the minimum run to move foward was around 800 orders ? Good luck with that !

And has been repeatedly stated, and not just by me, that these things are different than whatever came before. It doesn't matter that some other guy couldn't get interest on selling 800 pieces, unless PWTT is trying to sell exactly the same thing. You keep bringing in something that is completely different in an effort to justify your bashing of this method (kickstarter+action figures). I'd love to know what your motivaiton is in continuing this.

Rated X wrote:As I said before, the reason transforming figures success is relevant is because the line is being marketed by people who built their resumes on the transformers brand. And on top of that, their debut figure is a homage to a transformers character.

How do you know that all they did was work on Transformers? And regardless, is it not possible that they could have other interests and branch out away from where they have been before? If these were transforming figures, you may have a point, and history may be relevant. However, these are not, with only loose ties to transformers. Enough to mention here, but not enough to compare to the examples you gave (or your desire for further proof). It's apples and oranges, man...

Rated X wrote:As I said earlier, transformers collectors are the most picky collectors on the planet. They swear by youtube reviews and are extremly frugal about spending "third party prices". Thats why kickstarters dont work for transformers inspired figures.

And I am sure I have said before that generalizations are a very bad idea. This is one of those statements that you think is not offensive and "honest" but is anything but. Making a well supported argument should be possible without resorting to these sorts of faulty generalizations (another fallacy, by the way.)

Rated X wrote:The blind faith just isnt there.

What blind faith? What are you even talking about? Kickstarters don't "require" blind faith. If PWTT puts out enough information and a compelling product, they can sell this idea to enough people to fund their project. In many ways, doing a kickstarter makes much more sense than trying to sell a business plan to a bank in order to secure funds in a loan. To me, this is the perfect project for a Kickstarter.

Rated X wrote:These fans will nitpick everything from loose joints to crappy paint application. Look at the uproar the open handed arcee is causing because her gun wont fit properly. And thats just a 15 dollar figure. Do you really think the same people are going to chance $50-65 on a skullgrin figure based on concept art.

Again, this is a faulty generalization. Sure, some people reacted exactly what you stated. But to make the leap that this includes a majority of Transformer fans, or even the majority of those interested in this project, is not good logic.

Rated X wrote:And speaking of non transformable figures, transformer fans ripped impossible toys quints, nightbird, kranix, arbilus over various QC issues. Even the new gokin alpha trion got a poopy review because of paint apps getting damaged when changing the shoulder pads to make him into A-3.

Again, faulty generalization, and maybe even a straw man. Incidentally, it almost seems that you are assuming poor quality control, but this really has nothing to do with this project.

Rated X wrote:There is no blind faith in the transformer fandom for any type of figure whether it transforms or not.

And again, I have to ask about your motivation. Where is this requirement for "blind faith?" Is it part of the Kickstarter terms of service?

Rated X wrote:Thats why kickstarter is the wrong way to go with this TF crowd.

You still have failed to logically explain this. I still find that Kickstarter is the perfect platform for this sort of thing, and nothing in your arguments convinces me otherwise.

Rated X wrote:And PWTT is so damn cocky they keep releasing more and more artwork of figures that may never even see plastic form. Scaleface just threw up another thread for pretender starscream that I havent even looked at yet. Isnt about time PWTT put down the pen and debut some plastic already ? My opinion isnt going to change and im sure yours wont either. Ill leave it at that. Now lets take a break and enjoy the superbowl.

See, the bolded here is exactly why your posts are argumentative and put people on the defensive. Do you realize it?

Also, Scaleface has been great at updating the status of the project. He also provided some great justifications on why PWTT has chosen to go this route, with so many figures. Again, you can choose to not read them. Freedom is a great thing, isn't it?

I'm not even asking that you like their choice of proceeding. Time will certainly tell whether or not they are successful. I'd still like to know the motivation. Are you hoping they will fail so you can say, "see I told you so?" Because that is all I really conclude from everything you've said.

[Edit] And maybe the confusion stems from a misunderstanding of what Kickstarter is. From this linked Wikipedia article:

Wikipedia wrote:Kickstarter is one of a number of crowdfunding platforms for gathering money from the public, which circumvents traditional avenues of investment.[20][21] Project creators choose a deadline and a minimum funding goal. If the goal is not met by the deadline, no funds are collected, a kind of assurance contract.[22] Money pledged by donors is collected using Amazon Payments.[23] The platform is open to backers from anywhere in the world and to creators from the US, UK,[24] Canada,[25] Australia and New Zealand.[19]

Kickstarter takes 5% of the funds raised.[26] Amazon charges an additional 3–5%.[27] Unlike many forums for fundraising or investment, Kickstarter claims no ownership over the projects and the work they produce. The web pages of projects launched on the site are permanently archived and accessible to the public. After funding is completed, projects and uploaded media cannot be edited or removed from the site.[28]

There is no guarantee that people that post projects on Kickstarter will deliver on their projects, use the money to implement their projects, or that the completed projects will meet backers' expectations. Kickstarter advises backers to use their own judgment on supporting a project. They also warn project leaders that they could be liable for legal damages from backers for failure to deliver on promises.[29] Projects might also fail even after a successful fund raise when creators underestimate the total costs required or technical difficulties to be overcome.[30][31]

At this point, anyone who pledges money spends zero dollars until the goal is met. If the goal is not met, the project collects no money. No blind faith is necessary.

Was this a case of not understanding what Kickstarter is as a project investment vehicle?

Ag...

This debate could go on all year because we both have different viewpoints and stances. Sometimes people cast off the cold reality of things as "generalizations" to appear as the optimist. Am I pessimistic about this project ? Yes. Ive stated why already. If your mindset doesnt allow you to see things from my view (even if you dont agree with it) theres not much more to say. Im prepared to eat my words if this project succeeds. But if it flops I will say I told you so. And if you want to know what my definition of a "flop" is look no further than BMOG...

Agamemnon wrote:I'm getting a Guyver feel from this one...

Yup...Zoanoids and Guyver armor, now that's something I would buy!