The Energon Pub

mooncake623 wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:Seriously guys, Scaleface had been here for years before the PWTToo project. He was posting the Retro Robot Radio podcasts. Can we give him a little bit of a break here? Yes, he promoted the hell out of PWTToo, but that wasn't the only reason he was here.

I'd hate to think that Scaleface abandoned Seibertron for TFW2005 to find a more welcoming community...

Aggie... He was here promoting his podcasts.... When have you talk to him outside these two threads?

Just like he was here promoting the bmog projects and all the KFC stuff cause he's friends with someone There or something

I do think you are correct about him having friends or other inside info at some of the companies. But, I do remember him commenting a lot in threads other than PWTToo and the Retro Robot Radio threads. I remember him offering a lot of neat opinions and some interesting news nuggets. Plus, he has 52 news credits. Would all of those be before the switch from 3P front page news? And only 20% of his overall posts are in the 3P forums.

I guess I just remember him differently, and thought pretty highly of him. And I obviously liked the podcasts to re-post them in the news thread as they were a better summary than nearly all of the other 3P news thread posts.

I don't know him personally. *shrug* I guess I defend him as I though he was treated a little unfairly at times in this thread. (And by a couple of users in particular, neither of whom is posting in this thread anymore.)

Agamemnon wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:Seriously guys, Scaleface had been here for years before the PWTToo project. He was posting the Retro Robot Radio podcasts. Can we give him a little bit of a break here? Yes, he promoted the hell out of PWTToo, but that wasn't the only reason he was here.

I'd hate to think that Scaleface abandoned Seibertron for TFW2005 to find a more welcoming community...

Aggie... He was here promoting his podcasts.... When have you talk to him outside these two threads?

Just like he was here promoting the bmog projects and all the KFC stuff cause he's friends with someone There or something

I do think you are correct about him having friends or other inside info at some of the companies. But, I do remember him commenting a lot in threads other than PWTToo and the Retro Robot Radio threads. I remember him offering a lot of neat opinions and some interesting news nuggets. Plus, he has 52 news credits. Would all of those be before the switch from 3P front page news? And only 20% of his overall posts are in the 3P forums.

I guess I just remember him differently, and thought pretty highly of him. And I obviously liked the podcasts to re-post them in the news thread as they were a better summary than nearly all of the other 3P news thread posts.

I don't know him personally. *shrug* I guess I defend him as I though he was treated a little unfairly at times in this thread. (And by a couple of users in particular, neither of whom is posting in this thread anymore.)

They are all from before the switch over. I have nothing against him I don't think what I'm saying is even bashing him or anything. Just calling it like it is. He is Obviously bias.

Oh, I think we all have bias. I try to recognize it in myself, when I think it is relevant.

Hopefully we will get some news on the postmortem of the Kickstarter....

OK, this actually pisses me off a bit. Scaleface was an oldschool member, he was an actual active part of this community even before I joined and most of his news credits are not 3rd Party, but actual legitimate toys, he jut got really interested in the whole new trend of factory produced upgrade kits and even full blown figures, like a whole lot of us back then.

He was planning his 3rd Party podcast long before Ryan pulled the plug on 3rd Party news, in fact Ryan pulling the plug was the big motivation for him to actually start doing it for real. Even before Ryan pulled the plug, most of his news posts were about legit toys or warnings about KOs.

He wasn't just here to promote PWTT, even if the majority of his last few posts looked like that. Lets not forget who actually brought this project to our attention, he just reached out to them and looked at all the sources he still checked on to clear up what they were doing.

And to now see a whole lot of n00bs talk about him as if all he ever did was promote PWTT just disgusts me.

Maybe look at the way he was treated in this thread and in others, maybe then you'll notice why he's stopped posting here. Daimcock stopped because we don't post 3rd Party news and he's after the news credits, buy Scaleface didn't give up on us he stayed, now he's probably gone.

How was he treated in this and other threads? I didn't commented on this thread until it ended and someone was asking where he is cause he wanted to hear his opinion on what happened with this project. Sooo if someone drove him away can't give me all the credit for that.

rpetras wrote:

ScottyP wrote:I think there's a simple answer why this didn't hit its funding goal: It primarily went after the Transformers market's collective wallet, and these aren't in the "transforming action figure" category. Pretenders, as characters, just aren't going to be popular enough to hit a large pledge dollar amount, or a large population of folks to pledge smaller amounts (either can equal success, obviously).

I'm not so sure this is true. They only missed their goal by about 10%.

If a few more figures were available at lower unlock points, they would have gotten more $$$ from contributors. I can say this for sure from me.

I can't say I disagree at all with you, was just trying to find an over-simple phrasing to explain what I think happened I'll admit, if it was "hey, pledge $30 and get at least one of these Pretender homages" I would have done that.

mooncake623 wrote:How was he treated in this and other threads? I didn't commented on this thread until it ended and someone was asking where he is cause he wanted to hear his opinion on what happened with this project. Sooo if someone drove him away can't give me all the credit for that.

You haven't been paying attention then have you? And I never stated that you drove him away, you're just one of the n00bs commenting on the situation as if you knew what you where talking about.
Next time before you dismiss him, check his news credits and what exactly he was credited for and not just hand wave them away "Oh before the switchover" as if that diminishes them somehow.

Dead Metal wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:How was he treated in this and other threads? I didn't commented on this thread until it ended and someone was asking where he is cause he wanted to hear his opinion on what happened with this project. Sooo if someone drove him away can't give me all the credit for that.

You haven't been paying attention then have you? And I never stated that you drove him away, you're just one of the n00bs commenting on the situation as if you knew what you where talking about.
Next time before you dismiss him, check his news credits and what exactly he was credited for and not just hand wave them away "Oh before the switchover" as if that diminishes them somehow.

I haven't been following all the thread where people are insulting him no. But I'll comment as I see fit on this thread and why he is no longer here. His last news credit was from Jan 2012 about an dr. Wu item so it is right before thee switchover. Not saying it diminishes what he has contributed at all. And if he comes back and continues to contribute to this site that be great. I'm simply saying that he is no longer here cause there is not a large enough 3rd party audience here anymore for him unless there is something he really wants to promote.

And why do you keep calling me a noob? Cause I have less comments then you? Cause I came sign on to this site later then you have? Bltch please

ScottyP wrote:

rpetras wrote:

ScottyP wrote:I think there's a simple answer why this didn't hit its funding goal: It primarily went after the Transformers market's collective wallet, and these aren't in the "transforming action figure" category. Pretenders, as characters, just aren't going to be popular enough to hit a large pledge dollar amount, or a large population of folks to pledge smaller amounts (either can equal success, obviously).

I'm not so sure this is true. They only missed their goal by about 10%.

If a few more figures were available at lower unlock points, they would have gotten more $$$ from contributors. I can say this for sure from me.

I can't say I disagree at all with you, was just trying to find an over-simple phrasing to explain what I think happened I'll admit, if it was "hey, pledge $30 and get at least one of these Pretender homages" I would have done that.

I can over analyze this till I'm blue because it takes two of my favorite things, economics and psychology, and mashes them together. It is the basis of all advertising: "How do you make someone want what you are selling?"

And they were close, but I think their tooling start up costs, necessary to make the molds, for 2 distinct figures seems in line with what other lines have done. But had they allowed for a couple more figure options, but maybe had a higher success criteria (for example Mythic Legions had a success price of $140K, but used more molds) they might have done better.

These guys have parts reuse built into their designs, so it should have been pretty easy to have a few more figures available. By swapping arms, legs armor and adding different paint they could have had a lot more to offer.

As it was, if you liked the first 2 base figures, GREAT, you had something to buy. If you were more interested in the Seekers or the lizard guys there was no shot in #3!! of getting to them with this KS.

One of the reasons I dumped $$ into mythic legions, they had a lot of homages to the old LJN D&D line. With a little parts swapping and a few splashes of paint I can have updated versions of those characters ... but even if I'd never seen that line or didn't care about that, they still were just kick @$$ designs. With great use of paint, they differentiated characters that were just several versions of the same guy with different colors, and a new noggin.

And that's been mentioned plenty of times too ... these guys didn't have even one painted prototype till the last 5 days. That was bad marketing.

Would painted prototypes have gotten them over the line .. maybe. Couldn't have hurt.

Thanks for the reaffirmation, Dead Metal. That was exactly how I remembered Scaleface.

Mooncake, I think the n00b comment has to do with coming in at the end of the PWTToo discussion. I've been here for the entirety of the PWTToo stuff, and it definitely doesn't define Scaleface's contributions to the Seibertron community, in my opinion. This is part of the reason I defended him in this recent part of the discussion. And yes, you were not part of what I fear is the bashing of Scaleface (and PWTToo) that took place. I would say that my fear of Scaleface's treatment comes from several weeks ago.

So, ultimately, I hope we both still receive news on PWTToo and see Scaleface's return for some of the other great Transformer news he would pass on, both Has/Tak and 3P. The news and discussion is why I continue to hang around.

mooncake623 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:How was he treated in this and other threads? I didn't commented on this thread until it ended and someone was asking where he is cause he wanted to hear his opinion on what happened with this project. Sooo if someone drove him away can't give me all the credit for that.

You haven't been paying attention then have you? And I never stated that you drove him away, you're just one of the n00bs commenting on the situation as if you knew what you where talking about.
Next time before you dismiss him, check his news credits and what exactly he was credited for and not just hand wave them away "Oh before the switchover" as if that diminishes them somehow.

I haven't been following all the thread where people are insulting him no. But I'll comment as I see fit on this thread and why he is no longer here. His last news credit was from Jan 2012 about an dr. Wu item so it is right before thee switchover. Not saying it diminishes what he has contributed at all. And if he comes back and continues to contribute to this site that be great. I'm simply saying that he is no longer here cause there is not a large enough 3rd party audience here anymore for him unless there is something he really wants to promote.

And why do you keep calling me a noob? Cause I have less comments then you? Cause I came sign on to this site later then you have? Bltch please

The n00b is because you have no idea what you're talking about, but act as if you do.
You never knew him, nor have you been in this thread, but you commented on him as if you somehow had an insight.
That's as if I randomly showed up at a hospital, and stated berating the doctors there for how they should do surgery.

Post count or member time has absolutely nothing to do with anything, only idiots care about such trivial nonsense.

This thread will now stop being about users, and go back to being about the project that wasn't but might still be. Thank you.

At the risk of going back on my word to refrain from posting in this thread following my "final thoughts" on this project as a whole I would like to just say one thing.

I didn't have anything against Scaleface personally. Sure, I felt he was riding PWTT a little hard as there was a "new reveal" pretty much everyday which turned into a flood of threads that, really, didn't update much of anything, but beyond that I have nothing against the guy. In fact, I refrained from outright bashing this project up to the point of the whole "should we or shouldn't we merge" dispute at which point I was called out on my views by Scaleface on whether or not this project belonged on the boards or not.

I didn't chase him away . . . I disagreed with him and then left the thread. I might not have been entirely graceful on my exit, but that is the jist of my contribution to this thread.

With that being said . . . this project probably would have had more support from the fandom if they included the other half of the Pretender gimmick. (i.e. the transforming figure counterparts)

rpetras wrote:And that's been mentioned plenty of times too ... these guys didn't have even one painted prototype till the last 5 days. That was bad marketing.

Would painted prototypes have gotten them over the line .. maybe. Couldn't have hurt.

Spot on post. I picked this part out to comment on. This part of it seemed awfully lazy to me. Maybe it wasn't, and there was intention to have this done way sooner and it just didn't work out that way for one reason or another, but regardless - if you want a start up to succeed you have to make it happen come hell or high water. Someone doesn't get you your designs in on time? Find someone that will get it done tomorrow. Don't have the capital yet to do that? Raise it, then come back, and try again. But if the answer was "just didn't want to yet" or "just didn't think about it", that speaks volumes of the capacity of these guys in regards to running a business.

Just to reiterate so no one gets pissy, not saying at all that's what they did, just saying if it was, it reeks of laziness, and if not, it reeks of doing this KS too early in the startup process. Maybe the best thing to do would have been to try to raise a little bit for protos, then try out the crowdfunding thing. Heck, get one painted prototype into one of the hands of the big video reviewers, let them mess with it, have them show where to back it if folks want more, that kind of stuff. This community can market things to itself, so if they wanted our money, I'm shocked there wasn't more of that on an official level (or maybe there was, but it wasn't on the level I'm describing at any rate).

Anyway, I don't have a ton of interest in this regardless but the discussion is going fun places at least

They should have done it similar to how BossFight did it.

Bossfight showed up at a toy show with the base naked guy prototype, with which they showed of the amount of articulation and detail they would be able to offer. Everyone went insane over that figure, not just action figure collectors but artists too because not only was it way better as an artists figure than actual artists figures, but far cheaper.

Then people started to comment on what they'd like to see, and especially the artists crowd said that they should make a female figure as well. They opened a Facebook page and let the community form and give imput, all the while listening to what people said.

They then launched a kickstarter with that not only included a female mold, but actually had different figures with different accessories based on both base molds. Stretchgoals were pretty low and mostly slight remolds that only needed like two new parts made, and the later stretch goals were new molds and remolds of those.

Heck, they designed brand new figures and molds while the kickstarter went on because it was so popular and successful that not only was it funded in record time, but unlocked all stretch-goals within its first week. At the end of the kickstarter they had enough different figures (not counting the kickstarter exclusive ones) to fill out like two or three waves of big name company toy lines.
And the majority of their straight repaints were literally just kickstarter exclusive "we've run out of stretch goal figure ideas". Damn, one of the last unlocks was literally a super limited run of the naked bodies done in weird colours.

But with PWTT, they only had two base molds, only one of which was actually done before the kickstarter started, and the majority of the line was repaints.

They should have started with the four base molds they teased, and have the stretch goals be the repaints and remolds. And the figures made from all the different parts of the base molds.

It's a shame really, because I do love those head shots and their stands, plus the whole line looked interesting and cool.

If they do restart this, but feel like it's too expensive, maybe scale the figures down, and use the highly successful Glyos joint system, would save them a bit of cash, plus make them even more interesting due to the cross compatibility they would have with all the other Glyos lines. But then again, they would lose the whole six inch figure and compatibility selling point.

With Glyos I mean stuff like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDxpEhkOPD8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuQ7yb3I0sM

Dead Metal wrote:If they do restart this, but feel like it's too expensive, maybe scale the figures down, and use the highly successful Glyos joint system, would save them a bit of cash, plus make them even more interesting due to the cross compatibility they would have with all the other Glyos lines. But then again, they would lose the whole six inch figure and compatibility selling point.

Six inch is cool, but smaller things would definitely be ok too. Can always do the six inch stuff down the road when the budget allows it.

I think something else that would make it more appealing as a Transformers fan would be to see some concepts not explored as toys by Hasbro, beyond just the Pretenders, as concepts in Lost Protectors/PWTT. This would assume they stuck to the guns of "Don't make actual transforming robots". Would be kind of cool to see a character based on Bosch or Lord Gyconi from The Gambler, Aron from Child's Play, Allegra from Carnage in C-Minor, Primacron, heck even Lithonians - that kind of stuff would broaden the appeal from just the relative obscurity and probable unpopularity of Pretenders to a wider audience that still adores the original TF cartoon series.

Seriously guys, Don't make this thread about me. I've been busy at work lately at GM making electronics test benches for cars, and only had time to post about PWTToo since some of the guys who work there are online friends of mine. Otherwise I'm too busy.

Also, the reason I moved from seibertron.com to TFw2005.com for my primary posting was actually the ads on this site were conflicting with my browser, and it took about a minute for my posts to load.

Well, we have an update from the Play With This Too Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/PWTToo

Thanks again to everyone who has supported us this far! We are very eager to bring the Lost Protectors into a plastic reality. Look for an announcement soon.

Sounds exciting.

So it isn't dead, huh? Well that's good news.

Dead Metal wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:How was he treated in this and other threads? I didn't commented on this thread until it ended and someone was asking where he is cause he wanted to hear his opinion on what happened with this project. Sooo if someone drove him away can't give me all the credit for that.

You haven't been paying attention then have you? And I never stated that you drove him away, you're just one of the n00bs commenting on the situation as if you knew what you where talking about.
Next time before you dismiss him, check his news credits and what exactly he was credited for and not just hand wave them away "Oh before the switchover" as if that diminishes them somehow.

I haven't been following all the thread where people are insulting him no. But I'll comment as I see fit on this thread and why he is no longer here. His last news credit was from Jan 2012 about an dr. Wu item so it is right before thee switchover. Not saying it diminishes what he has contributed at all. And if he comes back and continues to contribute to this site that be great. I'm simply saying that he is no longer here cause there is not a large enough 3rd party audience here anymore for him unless there is something he really wants to promote.

And why do you keep calling me a noob? Cause I have less comments then you? Cause I came sign on to this site later then you have? Bltch please

The n00b is because you have no idea what you're talking about, but act as if you do.
You never knew him, nor have you been in this thread, but you commented on him as if you somehow had an insight.
That's as if I randomly showed up at a hospital, and stated berating the doctors there for how they should do surgery.

Post count or member time has absolutely nothing to do with anything, only idiots care about such trivial nonsense.

I followed this thread and the one over at tfw since the begining I know exactly what I'm talking about. If you disagree, whatever. I'm not the only that thought this and I was just trying to explain to megatronus why he's not getting his answers. Whatever I'm done here.

Scaleface wrote:Seriously guys, Don't make this thread about me. I've been busy at work lately at GM making electronics test benches for cars, and only had time to post about PWTToo since some of the guys who work there are online friends of mine. Otherwise I'm too busy.

Also, the reason I moved from seibertron.com to TFw2005.com for my primary posting was actually the ads on this site were conflicting with my browser, and it looks about a minute for my posts to load.

Well, we have an update from the Play With This Too Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/PWTToo

Thanks again to everyone who has supported us this far! We are very eager to bring the Lost Protectors into a plastic reality. Look for an announcement soon.

Sounds exciting.

Everyone here for the past few days was discussing PWTTOO, Not you.

Please don't make some of us out to be lynch mobs. If we did mention your name, It was kindly. Some were just concerned where you went.

After the PWTTOO Kickstarter ended on March 28th. Noticed on TFW, You did post multiple times, Every day in those TFW PWTTOO and other threads.

Hoping PWTTOO takes a few months or till 2016 to launch this Kick starter again. But knowing PWTTOO, They'll be itching to launch another Kickstarter in a few days or few weeks.

The reason I want this PWTTOO kick starter round Two to start in Five months Plus or in 2016. Is because I'm sick and tired of all the drama and trolling. That goes on in these PWTTOO thread all over the internet on all of the TF forums.

I'm not seeing any pop up adds when I post here. I've got pop up blockers in place and use the correct software to get rid of potential threats. The most common reason for ads appearing on forums for users, Is Malware viruses. In order to get rid of malware viruses you need to download and use anti viruses programs that remove Malware. clearing cookies, clearing temp files helps. Uninstalling and reinstalling browsers helps also. If all else fails reboot your computer to the factory installed settings.

mooncake623 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

mooncake623 wrote:How was he treated in this and other threads? I didn't commented on this thread until it ended and someone was asking where he is cause he wanted to hear his opinion on what happened with this project. Sooo if someone drove him away can't give me all the credit for that.

You haven't been paying attention then have you? And I never stated that you drove him away, you're just one of the n00bs commenting on the situation as if you knew what you where talking about.
Next time before you dismiss him, check his news credits and what exactly he was credited for and not just hand wave them away "Oh before the switchover" as if that diminishes them somehow.

I haven't been following all the thread where people are insulting him no. But I'll comment as I see fit on this thread and why he is no longer here. His last news credit was from Jan 2012 about an dr. Wu item so it is right before thee switchover. Not saying it diminishes what he has contributed at all. And if he comes back and continues to contribute to this site that be great. I'm simply saying that he is no longer here cause there is not a large enough 3rd party audience here anymore for him unless there is something he really wants to promote.

And why do you keep calling me a noob? Cause I have less comments then you? Cause I came sign on to this site later then you have? Bltch please

The n00b is because you have no idea what you're talking about, but act as if you do.
You never knew him, nor have you been in this thread, but you commented on him as if you somehow had an insight.
That's as if I randomly showed up at a hospital, and stated berating the doctors there for how they should do surgery.

Post count or member time has absolutely nothing to do with anything, only idiots care about such trivial nonsense.

I followed this thread and the one over at tfw since the begining I know exactly what I'm talking about. If you disagree, whatever. I'm not the only that thought this and I was just trying to explain to megatronus why he's not getting his answers. Whatever I'm done here.

Note, that I did not single you out in my first post concerning this, that was all you.

God this thread is annoying.

I'm interested to see how PWTToo plans on bringing the Protectors into plastic reality... another Kickstarter? They definitly put way too much time into this project to abandon it, but it's not my favourite. I wonder what other ideas they have spinning around? More Protectors, or other things entirely?

Unless they have to get going on a retry now, they might want to wait until after April 10th. That's the day the backerkit for Mystic Legions locks down. Until then people can still add more figures to that Kickstarter.

Personally I do hope it's another Kickstarter, but simplified, and maybe with an investor lowering the goal needed. If they can find someone willing to invest a couple thousand dollars, just lower the goal by that level. If they can make the goal $60,000, so it funds almost immediately if people do the same pledges they did on the first day last time, this time it will probably fly.

Va'al wrote:This thread will now stop being about users, and go back to being about the project that wasn't but might still be. Thank you.

Quoting this and putting it in really large text as some of you either didn't see it, or just chose to ignore it.

Warnings are the next step.

Scaleface wrote:Unless they have to get going on a retry now, they might want to wait until after April 10th. That's the day the backerkit for Mystic Legions locks down. Until then people can still add more figures to that Kickstarter.

Personally I do hope it's another Kickstarter, but simplified, and maybe with an investor lowering the goal needed. If they can find someone willing to invest a couple thousand dollars, just lower the goal by that level. If they can make the goal $60,000, so it funds almost immediately if people do the same pledges they did on the first day last time, this time it will probably fly.

Outside of simplifying the overall Kickstarter, with easier to understand rewards packages and more consistent and achievable stretch goals, I think they need to try targeting a single fandom. Either do all TF stuff or all MOTU stuff at first, and then crossover once it takes off. That editorial discipline and oversight is important, and they'll get much more attention that way.