The Energon Pub

by **JillD** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:27 pm

If the Allspark was moved to the Hoover Dam after they found Megatron, then the location on the glasses would be pointing to the artic. Did I miss something? Is the location on the glasses somehow automatically updated whenever the allspark is moved?

by **Night Raid** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:33 pm

Megatron was the one that got moved. They built the Hoover Dam over the AllSpark.

by **darkqueen01** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:16 pm

It's true. The Hoover Dam was built AROUND the All Spark. Though, really, that whole plot is just lame.

News Credits: 1 · by ***Galvatron*** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:48 pm

JillD wrote:If the Allspark was moved to the Hoover Dam after they found Megatron, then the location on the glasses would be pointing to the artic. Did I miss something? Is the location on the glasses somehow automatically updated whenever the allspark is moved?

The Allspark was not moved, Megatron was moved near the Allspark and the Hoover dam was built around him and the Allspark.

Megatron crash landed a good ten thousand years or more before the Hoover dam was created, when he made his approach over the north pole he could have detected it as there wasn't anything to shield it's radiation from him so that's how he would have known where the Allspark was located.

by **Rushie** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:15 pm

So why the heck did he approach the North Pole? It's not exactly close to Nevada...

News Credits: 1 · by ***Galvatron*** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:31 pm

Rushie wrote:So why the heck did he approach the North Pole? It's not exactly close to Nevada...

That would all depend on his trajectory in space to begin with and not necessarily a deliberate decision to come in over the north pole unless he wanted to start searching from the "top" of the planet ,so to speak, and then down.

Maybe he could only detect it's radiation as a generalized signal as it was already buried under ground, they just decided to build the Hoover dam around the Allspark and later Megatron to further hide them.

by **Wheelimus Prime** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:37 pm

maby megs was 230mi fron the allspark and ummm.......still working out the rest

got it... and he scanned that place and somehow was pulled to the north pole

by **Corona Smokescreen** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:46 pm

I noticed this too. In the prequel comic, he lands near the Allspark (icy place), and that's when he fell. I do think they made an error.

by **dbz77** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:29 pm

JillD wrote:If the Allspark was moved to the Hoover Dam after they found Megatron, then the location on the glasses would be pointing to the artic. Did I miss something? Is the location on the glasses somehow automatically updated whenever the allspark is moved?

The Allspark was not found in the Arctic; the Allspark landed in Black Canyon where the Hoover Dam would later be constructed.

Michael

by **Auto Bot** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:22 am

Why should Megatron be moved to the same location as the Allspark?

by **Sentry Prime** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:40 am

Auto Bot wrote:Why should Megatron be moved to the same location as the Allspark?

Perhaps to facilitate study of both "Alien artifacts" using a tightly controlled environment, as well isolating the number of personal exposed?

Also, perhaps with the possiblity of further NBE contact, they decided to house them both under the dam to reduce the chances of any recon party detecting Megatron as well??

just a guess :-?

by **Night Raid** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:38 pm

Sentry Prime wrote:
Auto Bot wrote:Why should Megatron be moved to the same location as the Allspark?

Perhaps to facilitate study of both "Alien artifacts" using a tightly controlled environment, as well isolating the number of personal exposed?

Also, perhaps with the possiblity of further NBE contact, they decided to house them both under the dam to reduce the chances of any recon party detecting Megatron as well??

just a guess

And, perhaps, conservation of resources? A place that huge has to take a lot of effort and resources to make.

by **JillD** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:34 pm

Thanks for all the responses and explanations. It's easier to suspend my disbelief about the transformers than about the government actually finding and effectively dealing with the allspark...haha.

I had the idea in my head from a book I got for my son but there were other differences from the movie too - like it made a much bigger issue out of Prime and Megatron being brothers and the final fight scene was at the Hoover Dam.

by **roblinb** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:44 pm

The movie is full of holes, so if you start pointing out flaws we'll be here all day lol... it's still enjoyable though

However, I would be willing to bet money that Megatron was followed by some trying to stop him from getting the All Spark...

by **darkqueen01** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:14 am

Corona Smokescreen wrote:I noticed this too. In the prequel comic, he lands near the Allspark (icy place), and that's when he fell. I do think they made an error.

When trying to come up with some possible explanations for this I came up with two ideas.

First I thought that might Megatron might have landed on Pangaea, the super continent that consisted of all the continents before they broke apart. I threw out this theory because Pangaea existed 250 million years ago, and Megs wasn't here for that long.

Unless you want to argue about what humans and Transformers consider to be a year, but I think that is pushing it a bit.

Then I thought that perhaps he landed during a major Ice Age. I'm going off on the idea that major cold can slow down/shut down a TF so maybe when entering Earth's orbit the cold effected his navigations and other systems. I mean, just because he says that he is near the All Spark that doesn't have to mean he was really near it. Still, the last major Ice Age ended around 10,000 - 15,000 years ago, and I don't think he was around here that long. (I can't remember what the movie said at all.)

I'm just going to hold to the idea that he's sensors became scrambled when he re-entered Earth's atmosphere or something. Otherwise, it's just another silly plot flaw on the writers part.

News Credits: 1 · by ***Galvatron*** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:02 am

[quote="darkqueen01"] Still, the last major Ice Age ended around 10,000 - 15,000 years ago, and I don't think he was around here that long. (I can't remember what the movie said at all.)

Yes, that is accurate to what they said in the movie.

by **Prowl_r** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:14 am

The Movie gave us the answer. Banacheck explained that they "think" the Earth's magentic field messed up his telemetry on entring the atmosphere, it put him off course.

The real plot issue is that if Sam's Grandfather discovered Megs before the Hoover Dam was built and he was moved in with the Allspark, what did we do with him until then?

News Credits: 11 · by **Robinson** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:55 pm

Prowl_r wrote:The Movie gave us the answer. Banacheck explained that they "think" the Earth's magentic field messed up his telemetry on entring the atmosphere, it put him off course.

The real plot issue is that if Sam's Grandfather discovered Megs before the Hoover Dam was built and he was moved in with the Allspark, what did we do with him until then?

Well you need to figure that the removal and trasportation process would not be a quick one. excavation alone would take years.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:40 pm

***Galvatron*** wrote:Megatron crash landed a good ten thousand years or more before the Hoover dam was created,

The comic prequil said it was 4 million years if I'm right.

***Galvatron*** wrote:when he made his approach over the north pole he could have detected it as there wasn't anything to shield it's radiation from him so that's how he would have known where the Allspark was located.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the movie it was said that the cube was found and the Hover dam was built over it.But they never said that where it was found was where it landed.

Megatron tracked it to earth about 4 million years ago but who knows how long before that it landed.With all the ice cap melting and and the end of the ice age not to mention the great continental devide over that last 4 million years the cube could have been near Megatron when he landed but shifted over the years.

Rushie wrote:So why the heck did he approach the North Pole? It's not exactly close to Nevada...

It may have been 4 million years ago.

dbz77 wrote:The Allspark was not found in the Arctic; the Allspark landed in Black Canyon where the Hoover Dam would later be constructed.

Michael

Thats where it was found but they never said thats where it landed.

It could have landed near the N pole and migrated with the melting ice over the years.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:41 pm

darkqueen01 wrote:When trying to come up with some possible explanations for this I came up with two ideas.

First I thought that might Megatron might have landed on Pangaea, the super continent that consisted of all the continents before they broke apart. I threw out this theory because Pangaea existed 250 million years ago, and Megs wasn't here for that long.

Unless you want to argue about what humans and Transformers consider to be a year, but I think that is pushing it a bit.

Then I thought that perhaps he landed during a major Ice Age. I'm going off on the idea that major cold can slow down/shut down a TF so maybe when entering Earth's orbit the cold effected his navigations and other systems. I mean, just because he says that he is near the All Spark that doesn't have to mean he was really near it. Still, the last major Ice Age ended around 10,000 - 15,000 years ago, and I don't think he was around here that long. (I can't remember what the movie said at all.)

I'm just going to hold to the idea that he's sensors became scrambled when he re-entered Earth's atmosphere or something. Otherwise, it's just another silly plot flaw on the writers part.

Both your theroies are still valid because the prequil comic said Megatron landed about 4 million years ago.If I remember right.

News Credits: 1 · by **Mechabreaker** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:13 am

Sentry Prime wrote:
Auto Bot wrote:Why should Megatron be moved to the same location as the Allspark?

Perhaps to facilitate study of both "Alien artifacts" using a tightly controlled environment, as well isolating the number of personal exposed?

Also, perhaps with the possiblity of further NBE contact, they decided to house them both under the dam to reduce the chances of any recon party detecting Megatron as well??

just a guess

I was just thinking the same thing.

News Credits: 1 · by ***Galvatron*** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:13 am

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
***Galvatron*** wrote:Megatron crash landed a good ten thousand years or more before the Hoover dam was created,

The comic prequil said it was 4 million years if I'm right.

***Galvatron*** wrote:when he made his approach over the north pole he could have detected it as there wasn't anything to shield it's radiation from him so that's how he would have known where the Allspark was located.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the movie it was said that the cube was found and the Hover dam was built over it.But they never said that where it was found was where it landed.

Then megatron would have to be awake or aware of his surroundings for thousands or millions of years which was not the case, he was not reactivated unitl archibald witwiky reactivated him when he discovered him in the 1800's.

Megatron tracked it to earth about 4 million years ago but who knows how long before that it landed.With all the ice cap melting and and the end of the ice age not to mention the great continental devide over that last 4 million years the cube could have been near Megatron when he landed but shifted over the years.

Rushie wrote:So why the heck did he approach the North Pole? It's not exactly close to Nevada...

It may have been 4 million years ago.

dbz77 wrote:The Allspark was not found in the Arctic; the Allspark landed in Black Canyon where the Hoover Dam would later be constructed.

Michael

Thats where it was found but they never said thats where it landed.

It could have landed near the N pole and migrated with the melting ice over the years.

The last ice age never made it down to Nevada let alone any of them and also same as above, megatron would have to be awake the entire time.
I do not place much faith in the prequel comic as far as too many facts go as it was probably written sometime just before or after the movie came out, it's almost apples and oranges being used for comparison in a way so we should stick with what we've seen and know in the movie. B-)

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:59 am

***Galvatron*** wrote:The last ice age never made it down to Nevada let alone any of them and also same as above,

I never said that the ice age itself made it to Nevada but melting waters in fact did contribute to the forming of the "Grand Canyon" [which took 6 million years] by incresing the water levels of the Colorado River.

So just as the waters travel to and helped create Grand Canyon it to could have deposted the Cube in the Black Canyon.

From my 13 year old daughters Geology book

The canyon, created by the Colorado River over a period of 6 million years, is 277 miles (446 km) long, ranges in width from 4 to 18 miles (6.4 to 29 km) and attains a depth of more than a mile (1.6 km). Nearly two billion years of the Earth's history have been exposed as the Colorado River and its tributaries cut their channels through layer after layer of rock while the Colorado Plateau was uplifted.

The principal consensus among geologists is that the Colorado River basin (of which the Grand Canyon is a part) has developed in the past 40 million years and that the Grand Canyon itself is probably less than five to six million years old (with most of the downcutting occurring in the last two million years). The result of all this erosion is one of the most complete geologic columns on the planet.

The major geologic exposures in Grand Canyon range in age from the 2 billion year old Vishnu Schist at the bottom of the Inner Gorge to the 230 million year old Kaibab Limestone on the Rim. Interestingly, there is a gap of about one billion years between the stratum that is about 500 million years old and the lower level, which is about 1.5 billion years old. That indicates a period of erosion between two periods of deposition.

Many of the formations were deposited in warm shallow seas, near-shore environments (such as beaches), and swamps as the seashore repeatedly advanced and retreated over the edge of a proto-North America. Major exceptions include the Permian Coconino Sandstone, which most (though not all) geologists claim was laid down as sand dunes in a desert, and several parts of the Supai Group.

The great depth of the Grand Canyon and especially the height of its strata (most of which formed below sea level) can be attributed to 5,000 to 10,000 feet (1500 to 3000 m) of uplift of the Colorado Plateau, starting about 65 million years ago (during the Laramide Orogeny). This uplift has steepened the stream gradient of the Colorado River and its tributaries, which in turn has increased their speed and thus their ability to cut through rock (see the elevation summary of the Colorado River for present conditions).

Weather conditions during the ice ages also increased the amount of water in the Colorado River drainage system. The ancestral Colorado River responded by cutting its channel faster and deeper.

The base level and course of the Colorado River (or its ancestral equivalent) changed 5.3 million years ago when the Gulf of California opened and lowered the river's base level (its lowest point). This increased the rate of erosion and cut nearly all of the Grand Canyon's current depth by 1.2 million years ago. The terraced walls of the canyon were created by differential erosion.

About one million years ago, volcanic activity (mostly near the western canyon area) deposited ash and lava over the area, which at times completely obstructed the river. These volcanic rocks are the youngest in the canyon.

***Galvatron*** wrote:megatron would have to be awake the entire time.

Why is that???The Cube was massive compaired to Megatron.The Cube might have migrated and he remained pretty much where he landed.

***Galvatron*** wrote:I do not place much faith in the prequel comic as far as too many facts go as it was probably written sometime just before or after the movie came out,

Small fact....prequel comics and movie adaptations are normaly written, published and released long before the movies are even finished production.

As was the case with these prequel comics.If I remember the first one was relesedd about 5 or 6 months before the movie opened.

***Galvatron*** wrote: it's almost apples and oranges being used for comparison in a way so we should stick with what we've seen and know in the movie.

I cant disagree with you here.

News Credits: 1 · by ***Galvatron*** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:55 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
***Galvatron*** wrote:The last ice age never made it down to Nevada let alone any of them and also same as above,

I never said that the ice age itself made it to Nevada but melting waters in fact did contribute to the forming of the "Grand Canyon" [which took 6 million years] by incresing the water levels of the Colorado River.

So just as the waters travel to and helped create Grand Canyon it to could have deposted the Cube in the Black Canyon.

From my 13 year old daughters Geology book
The canyon, created by the Colorado River over a period of 6 million years, is 277 miles (446 km) long, ranges in width from 4 to 18 miles (6.4 to 29 km) and attains a depth of more than a mile (1.6 km). Nearly two billion years of the Earth's history have been exposed as the Colorado River and its tributaries cut their channels through layer after layer of rock while the Colorado Plateau was uplifted.

The principal consensus among geologists is that the Colorado River basin (of which the Grand Canyon is a part) has developed in the past 40 million years and that the Grand Canyon itself is probably less than five to six million years old (with most of the downcutting occurring in the last two million years). The result of all this erosion is one of the most complete geologic columns on the planet.

The major geologic exposures in Grand Canyon range in age from the 2 billion year old Vishnu Schist at the bottom of the Inner Gorge to the 230 million year old Kaibab Limestone on the Rim. Interestingly, there is a gap of about one billion years between the stratum that is about 500 million years old and the lower level, which is about 1.5 billion years old. That indicates a period of erosion between two periods of deposition.

Many of the formations were deposited in warm shallow seas, near-shore environments (such as beaches), and swamps as the seashore repeatedly advanced and retreated over the edge of a proto-North America. Major exceptions include the Permian Coconino Sandstone, which most (though not all) geologists claim was laid down as sand dunes in a desert, and several parts of the Supai Group.

The great depth of the Grand Canyon and especially the height of its strata (most of which formed below sea level) can be attributed to 5,000 to 10,000 feet (1500 to 3000 m) of uplift of the Colorado Plateau, starting about 65 million years ago (during the Laramide Orogeny). This uplift has steepened the stream gradient of the Colorado River and its tributaries, which in turn has increased their speed and thus their ability to cut through rock (see the elevation summary of the Colorado River for present conditions).

Weather conditions during the ice ages also increased the amount of water in the Colorado River drainage system. The ancestral Colorado River responded by cutting its channel faster and deeper.

The base level and course of the Colorado River (or its ancestral equivalent) changed 5.3 million years ago when the Gulf of California opened and lowered the river's base level (its lowest point). This increased the rate of erosion and cut nearly all of the Grand Canyon's current depth by 1.2 million years ago. The terraced walls of the canyon were created by differential erosion.

About one million years ago, volcanic activity (mostly near the western canyon area) deposited ash and lava over the area, which at times completely obstructed the river. These volcanic rocks are the youngest in the canyon.

Most of that information regards much slower changes in regards to tectonic changes,land changes resulting from layers mostly formed on the sea bottom and less to do with quicker glacial changes in comparison, it's already stated in the movie he was frozen for about ten thousand years and not millions.

Why is that???The Cube was massive compaired to Megatron.The Cube might have migrated and he remained pretty much where he landed.

So the allspark migrated all the way to present day nevada and megatron whom you claim was nearby it and much less massive was just missed and not transported with it ? Highly speculative at best.

***Galvatron*** wrote:megatron would have to be awake the entire time.

Megatron would have to be awake or aware of his immediate surroundings let alone thousands of miles away to be able to detect the allspark and he'd have to be able to track it for thousands or millions of years in this case, if he was not awake he would have not known of it's alleged migration in glacial movement otherwise and this was not the case, he was not activated until the witwicky encounter, remember optimus's words to Sam in the alley ? "He accidentally activated his navigation system" Megatron was not awake up until that point.

Why is it so hard to believe that the allspark crashed in present day nevada and megatron crashed at the arctic circle and leave it at that ?

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:57 pm

***Galvatron*** wrote:Most of that information regards much slower changes in regards to tectonic changes,land changes resulting from layers mostly formed on the sea bottom and less to do with quicker glacial changes in comparison, it's already stated in the movie he was frozen for about ten thousand years and not millions.

When did they say that in the movie???I dont remember any amount of time givven to when he landed.And even if they did it would have only been the best guess of the sector 7 guys anyway.

The script, the novel and the prequil comic all stated that Megatron landed 4 million years ago.

***Galvatron*** wrote:So the allspark migrated all the way to present day nevada and megatron whom you claim was nearby it and much less massive was just missed and not transported with it ? Highly speculative at best.

Never said how close he was did I.He still could have been a good distance away and also could have migrated a bit in a different direction.

***Galvatron*** wrote:Megatron would have to be awake or aware of his immediate surroundings let alone thousands of miles away to be able to detect the allspark and he'd have to be able to track it for thousands or millions of years in this case, if he was not awake he would have not known of it's alleged migration in glacial movement otherwise and this was not the case, he was not activated until the witwicky encounter, remember optimus's words to Sam in the alley ? "He accidentally activated his navigation system" Megatron was not awake up until that point.

You lost me here.Your making little scence at all.What make's you think that Megatron needed to be awaer of the Cube's possible migration???

Megatron had no information on where the Cube was in the present day at all.

Not till his systems were turned back on at least.