The Energon Pub

Kalon wrote:

Redimus wrote:Dear god... Lucky, just shut up!

QFT

Everyone's allowed to have their opinion on things, and can voice it as often as they wish, even Lucky.

Besides, I found the pictures to be somewhat amusing

Mkall wrote:

Kalon wrote:

Redimus wrote:Dear god... Lucky, just shut up!

QFT

Everyone's allowed to have their opinion on things, and can voice it as often as they wish, even Lucky.

Besides, I found the pictures to be somewhat amusing

Even if his end goal is an attack? thats all they come across as. he hasn't had a constructive thing to say about version 2.

I'd like to see what Glyph's got in the works. I totally get a reset. Start out new with something new. Less chance for issues and bugs.

Kalon wrote:Even if his end goal is an attack? thats all they come across as. he hasn't had a constructive thing to saw about version 2.

Boldface, courtesy of qS.

You're right, but does anyone have a truly constructive thing to say about V2? Bottomline is that V2 is the ever-present monster lurking just beyond your horizon. You, Kalon, have no clue whether V2 is constructive or destructive. Do you? Truth be told, no one does. 'Cept for Glyph. And he ain't talking.

I agree with Burn. Hype, Unknown and Bugs would all be viable options for testing or even completely non-resetting us for V2. Simply because if V2 turns out to be simply Minicon Madness and Tiddlywinks then I'm done. I will walk. And I WILL frequent sites that actually give me the type of news that I read and WANT. The game brought me here to Seibertron.com, and the game keeps me coming back. The little bits of news and a few of the photogalleries are just extras to me.

Word.

far be it form me to drag something back onto topic. but im in favour of a reset. to use a few analogies from other gaming titles, you dont keep building on tiberian sun, you dont keep having the same age of empires!
you take an idea, and build it back up again from scratch. the draft system, writing a new text with reference to the old one is what is needed.

as for the mystery, i prefer to see it as a scooby doo scenario, V2 is hidden all the while in front of our face, we know itll be old mr johnson who has a few flaws, but its unveiling will shock and amaze at the same time!

I too welcome a reset. I like a new challege. We'd be paving the new frontier for HMW.

I got pointless pictures too.





No I didn't make these. I found them on another forum. Which begs the question, how many forums do you go to when you want to annoy people?

Oh and one last picture.

Kalon wrote:

Mkall wrote:

Kalon wrote:

Redimus wrote:Dear god... Lucky, just shut up!

QFT

Everyone's allowed to have their opinion on things, and can voice it as often as they wish, even Lucky.

Besides, I found the pictures to be somewhat amusing

Even if his end goal is an attack? thats all they come across as. he hasn't had a constructive thing to say about version 2.

So tell me, Alfalfa... Why am I not allowed to express my oppinions?

They were on topic. The tread is about V2 is it not?

Is it because the oppinion is different than yours? Well I'm sorry Alfalfa. People will have different oppinions than you will. Like your moronic sig... I disagree with it.

But I am not telling you to Take it down or marginalizing you about it. You will be proved wrong in 91 days anyways.

But that is oppinion.

I don't want a reset. I think it is a very bad idea. I had the fortitude to stand by my opinions. Despite the grief that people like you dole out.

Oh and to prove Alfalfa wrong... again.

V2 is a very sound idea. I like the concepts that I have heard in the past. The planet map: Good. Victory Points: Good. I've expressed a few ideas about V2 long ago that even Burn liked. Guess you wern't around then.

I just beleive that there should be no reset and the game becomimg so complicated that the casual player can not compete. What is your problem with that, Alfalfa?

LuckytheWonderLlama wrote:I just beleive that there should be no reset and the game becomimg so complicated that the casual player can not compete.

But HMW V2 is to HMW V1 what Sims 2 is to the original Sims, just to name an example. You don't expect to pick up Sims 2 and expect to play the same characters you were working in the original version, do you? No, because the designers have created an entirely new game. Same difference; just be happy you don't have to upload new software, too.

LuckytheWonderLlama wrote:

Kalon wrote:

Mkall wrote:

Kalon wrote:

Redimus wrote:Dear god... Lucky, just shut up!

QFT

Everyone's allowed to have their opinion on things, and can voice it as often as they wish, even Lucky.

Besides, I found the pictures to be somewhat amusing

Even if his end goal is an attack? thats all they come across as. he hasn't had a constructive thing to say about version 2.

So tell me, Alfalfa...

The name is Kalon, you've been asked by mods to stop calling me other names. Get a clue

LuckytheWonderLlama wrote:They were on topic. The tread is about V2 is it not?

Actually they weren't.

Your posts were nothing more than a potshot at what you feel the result of V2 will be. Something bad.

QS' post was nothing like that. It was an alternative to a complete reset and there's been little discussion on that. Thanks to you and your pictures the topic has gone off tangent as it's turned into another Lucky Slam Fest.

Yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, but stop and think about it. Every time there's a thread about V2 and you end up posting in it, it gets sent off tangent because people feel the need to go after you.

So who's really at fault here? WHO THE **** CARES!

People, just go and read QS' first post in this thread and discuss it.

Like how I came up with another point on why we should test before reset.

• The feel of the game - Does intell do anything to help your bot? That's been a topic of great debate. Some say yes, some dismiss it. Those that say yes say it because they "feel" it does. Just like they "feel" other things happen in the game which Glyph has come out and said can't happen because it's not in the code.

So by letting people get a "feel" of the game Glyph can work out whether it's a bug or not and tweak the code to fix things rather than it being discovered months down the track.

Burn wrote:Like how I came up with another point on why we should test before reset.

• The feel of the game - Does intell do anything to help your bot? That's been a topic of great debate. Some say yes, some dismiss it. Those that say yes say it because they "feel" it does. Just like they "feel" other things happen in the game which Glyph has come out and said can't happen because it's not in the code.

So by letting people get a "feel" of the game Glyph can work out whether it's a bug or not and tweak the code to fix things rather than it being discovered months down the track.

I'd like to try INT, but half my team is unresettable and I've heard to many horror stories too experiment with it. But logically both Intelligence and Skill should raise over all performance.

what matters to me is that I kill as many Autobots as I can right now. The rest can wait til it actually comes.

RobotInDisguise wrote:what matters to me is that I kill as many Autobots as I can right now. The rest can wait til it actually comes.

That'd matter to me more IF I actully had a way of knowing....

Burn wrote:The 21st Century called Mkall, they'd like you to join it.

Dagnabbit, I should probably get in there, too. Mkall, we can share a cab.

Burn wrote:Like how I came up with another point on why we should test before reset.

• The feel of the game - Does intell do anything to help your bot? That's been a topic of great debate. Some say yes, some dismiss it. Those that say yes say it because they "feel" it does. Just like they "feel" other things happen in the game which Glyph has come out and said can't happen because it's not in the code.

So by letting people get a "feel" of the game Glyph can work out whether it's a bug or not and tweak the code to fix things rather than it being discovered months down the track.

And it should be tested under a full load of players with a wide range of test subjects for several years. I know where we can find the test subjects: Right Here! All willing and able to slog through the necessary years of testing to make sure there are no bugs in the system.

i playing pretty much second fiddle to Burn, but an example was repair we don't know when it was "fixed" so intell boosted it but i'm fairly sure it was about Dark Tidings time(spring '05, the first time at least) about when retreat came into play. but it wasn't until last june that a few of the RDD did some level bullying(well 10 int+10repair and 10 end) and found out that int wasn't actually doing a thing and threw a log at glyph to show something was up.

the same with the whole courage/speed thing, we don't know how much there meant to boost it, and such can't actually provide feedback as to if it's working as it's meant to.

hell it took nearly 2 years for peeps to work that the weapons all the same accuarcy...

LuckytheWonderLlama wrote:

Burn wrote:Like how I came up with another point on why we should test before reset.

• The feel of the game - Does intell do anything to help your bot? That's been a topic of great debate. Some say yes, some dismiss it. Those that say yes say it because they "feel" it does. Just like they "feel" other things happen in the game which Glyph has come out and said can't happen because it's not in the code.

So by letting people get a "feel" of the game Glyph can work out whether it's a bug or not and tweak the code to fix things rather than it being discovered months down the track.

And it should be tested under a full load of players with a wide range of test subjects for several years. I know where we can find the test subjects: Right Here! All willing and able to slog through the necessary years of testing to make sure there are no bugs in the system.

Um we kinda already ARE testing it...
Seeing as Glyph tends to implement things for V2 that he wants testing into this version anyway.

And no program has a testing phase lasting several years, nor does it have a test phase that involves every potential user....

but generally, don't the people testing know how it works, or is ment to work?

Tammuz wrote:but generally, don't the people testing know how it works, or is ment to work?

No, not always.

You need to have people use it as an everyday user would use it. Mainly becuase it is impossible to predict exactly what areas will need testing, especilly in an all new program (which V2 will basically be).

Alpha testing has to be done by those in the know, but beta testing (which is the kind of testing we're really talking about) is done either by normal people, or people who know enough to know how to challenge the software, without actully knowing it's inner workings.

What Red said, but let me add: Those normal people have to include not only people unfamiliar with the product, but unfamiliar with computers in general. These are the people with the least amount of assumptions of how something works. The people who know the least about a product are those most likely to break it. And they break it better than anyone else.

Only when something breaks can it be truly debugged.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:What Red said, but let me add: Those normal people have to include not only people unfamiliar with the product, but unfamiliar with computers in general. These are the people with the least amount of assumptions of how something works. The people who know the least about a product are those most likely to break it. And they break it better than anyone else.

Only when something breaks can it be truly debugged.

QFT

and here we have the problem, most of the time we can't tell the difference between a bad setup and something being broke. again i recall "is intell boosting repair?" and from the old con only forum "cons strafe is muted" thing, the former it was broke, but we just thought it was a balancing issue and so it didn't get reported, and latter it wasn't; we just didn't how it worked, and so thought it was broken.

Tammuz wrote:and here we have the problem, most of the time we can't tell the difference between a bad setup and something being broke. again i recall "is intell boosting repair?" and from the old con only forum "cons strafe is muted" thing, the former it was broke, but we just thought it was a balancing issue and so it didn't get reported, and latter it wasn't; we just didn't how it worked, and so thought it was broken.

This is why you have a viriaty of testers. Some will need to know roughly what certain features *should* do (although this would mostly be a part of alpha testing (which involves reading through the actual code, VERY boring and difficult). The final testing would then be done with a selection or 'people off the street'.

I think one thing you (and Burn, and a few others) are failing to remember is the design ethic behind the different versions. V1 is based on the code by someone who had no idea how to code propery, a lot of what he did was what felt good at the time, I seriously doubt he did any useful comments in the code, and then Glyph's had to come in and basically work out what the hell is going on in said code.

V2 will be entirly of Glyph's design, one would imagine built 'properly' and as such he will have a better idea of what should work and how. We should get the regular and random bugs n glytchs the current version gives us with every upgrade.

To expect it to be perfect is folly, but remember, it *should* be a lot smoother than his additions ot the current code.

Redimus wrote:I think one thing you (and Burn, and a few others) are failing to remember is the design ethic behind the different versions. V1 is based on the code by someone who had no idea how to code propery, a lot of what he did was what felt good at the time, I seriously doubt he did any useful comments in the code, and then Glyph's had to come in and basically work out what the hell is going on in said code.

And what YOU seem to not know at all is that Vir programs for a living so he knew very well what he was doing.

Not only that is Vir's original code was unfinished and has been patched numerous times over the years by both Ryan and Glyph. And in all those years we've been told the same thing "we're only beta testing".

Three and half years of beta testing replaced with something entirely new and we're expected to test it as we go along? nah, sorry, i'd much rather see it fully tested by a number of people, not told to sit back and expect the work of one person to be accepted by all. I'm tired of this being a one person show with that one person telling us what the game needs. It's been that way since the beginning and we've seen how well that works.

And once again, that's not an attack on Glyph, it may simply be a case of me being stuck in the past but I don't want to see those mistakes repeated when this next version rolls out.

i agree wholeheartedly with Burn. first of all, you must be able to complain without the "free-game card" being bandied about. we realise it, we get it, otherwise we wouldnt be posting helpful (in our opinions anyway) ideas.

second, a progress report should be, even as a courtesy, made known by the powers that be. bad intelligence results in frustration. had we known that "x is broken, working on ways to fix it wihtout disrupting y", we'd be far more accepting of the problem, as opposed to "wait til you see what is coming up guys, we'r still testing but it'll be worth the wait". its when we ahve nothing to support that we begin to dissent.