The Energon Pub

I think I'm done anyway. Things are getting to heated in here. I don't normally even talk about politics on a Message board but man I'm bitter right now.

Sure hope he lives up to the hype! I personally think he's going to be the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf!

Counterpunch wrote:Thanks to everyone who has helped to ruin this thread by the discussion of selfish partisian politics.

Paging Dr. Cyber Bishop...

Indeed. Well, one response then...

Caelus wrote:I would attribute the observation to Social Psychology theories that support our over-perception of exceptional data. Hypothetically candidate A's ads are going to be less outstanding in the memory of candidate A's supporters, because they aren't going to invoke annoyance and frustration like candidate B's ads, therefore, in retrospect, the supporters will mistakenly believe there were more of B's ads, when in fact numbers were roughly equal.

Good point - one I'll concede. I will notice those ads with which I disagree more. On further reflection though I still hold that here in Maryland I only remember seing republican ads during nationally broadcast prime time slots (with which I have no complaint; the ads on both sides this year were far superior to 4 years prior).

Now back to the HMW.

Tweezy wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Thanks to everyone who has helped to ruin this thread by the discussion of selfish partisian politics.

Paging Dr. Cyber Bishop...

well said.

I actually thought, that on the whole, we were doing a fairly good job of discussing our opinions on the ramifications of Obama's election civilly.

If that was derailing the thread then I apologize, but if the only purpose of the thread was for us Obama supporters to go 'yay Obama won' and flount it publicly in front of the former opposition, I think it out lived its usefulness pages ago.

On the other hand, reducing everyone's largely intelligent arguments to "selfish partisan politics" strikes me as unnecessary, unfair, and exemplary of a crucial flaw that has always, and will always, plague our democratic government - the 'if you disagree with me (or if you have an opinion at all) then logically you must be a blind sheep towing the part-line' fallacy.

I'm a pretty rabid liberal (though not 100%), but I can appreciate the conservatives' points of view, and appreciate their contribution to our system, if for nothing else then at least the fact that they play diablo-advocati when my group is in charge (and we do the same when they're in charge), keep us from making changes faster than the American people can keep up, and generate heated discourse which, when kept civilized, produces the critical thinking necessary to make crucial decisions.

Caelus wrote:I actually thought, that on the whole, we were doing a fairly good job of discussing our opinions on the ramifications of Obama's election civilly.

If that was derailing the thread then I apologize, but if the only purpose of the thread was for us Obama supporters to go 'yay Obama won' and flount it publicly in front of the former opposition, I think it out lived its usefulness pages ago.

On the other hand, reducing everyone's largely intelligent arguments to "selfish partisan politics" strikes me as unnecessary, unfair, and exemplary of a crucial flaw that has always, and will always, plague our democratic government - the 'if you disagree with me (or if you have an opinion at all) then logically you must be a blind sheep towing the part-line' fallacy.

This was what I was thinking.

Just remember:

Carter administration and a Democratic Congress passed the first legislation which forced banks into 'relaxing' their credit standards for new homeloan applicants.

Clinton administration and a Democratic Congress passed legislation which created 'quotas' that banks had to meet when lending to 'lower income' homeloan applicants.

2000 'Lameduck' Congress (again Democratic controlled with Clinton still in the Whitehouse) signed in legislation repealling a 1909 ban on 'default betting' by banks. (Go to 60 Minutes website, this was aired in the last two weeks). This allowed banks to 'package' these bad loans and sell/trade them under different names. This is exactly what CAUSED the stock market crash of 1907 - and why our banks are going under. (AKA we would've had a 'softer' crash if it had just been the home loan defaults. Not the major crash we had)

Now we're faced with a Democratic congress and President again. God help us all!

Guess I'll take that $35K a year job instead of the $75K job. Since 'VP Biden' mentioned that it was down to $150K per couple on their projected tax increases. (Speech two weeks ago) I'd really hate to 'work harder' just so the government can take more - I'd end up actually BRINGING HOME less at the higher income. This is a lesson in NOT trying to 'better yourself financially' since you will be penalized if you do.

OH cr**! My Aunt and uncle whom teach public school in an urban CA district makes $160K per year are 'the rich' according to 'VP Biden'.. The little 1500 square foot house that they could afford must actually be a MANSION! OMG - I'm so blind! I never knew they were rich!

Here's a toast to redistributing the wealth (from the working - to those that don't), bankrupting companies who try and build new coal fired plants (Obama statement in Jan.), Increasing energy costs exponentially (same Obama speech), reperations to AA (Obama statement), Giving MORE Financial aid to minorities (Oops sorry, They already have access to twice as much as a 'white' student, and don't have to meet the same GPA standards as the white kid - but's it's 'fair' right?) and driving yet more companies off shore because of higher taxes. (see Clinton's record on the loss of manufacturing companies)

Member of those Americans that are against the same party controlling both legislature and administration. It means trouble for the country no matter the party!

You know, people keep blaming Clinton for this Economic crisis, but all I can remember is the huge surplus he left in Bush's care.

But let's not forget, Clinton left us with a huge-ass economic surplus. And what's Bush left us with? A huge-ass debt.

Shadowman wrote:You know, people keep blaming Clinton for this Economic crisis, but all I can remember is the huge surplus he left in Bush's care.

But let's not forget, Clinton left us with a huge-ass economic surplus. And what's Bush left us with? A huge-ass debt.

You mean during the dot com boom? Last time I checked Clinton was in the White House during that not Silicon Valley. I guess he could thank his VP Gore for inventing the internet.

I went back and read the post about partisan politics. With that I'm done, I apologize I baited myself into this. Shadowman or anyone else no hard feelings just differences of opinion. Lets talk transformers!

But let's not forget, Clinton left us with a huge-ass economic surplus. And what's Bush left us with? A huge-ass debt.

Remember, before Clinton the Social Security funds were counted seperately from the general fund. During Clinton they passed legislation which allowed them to 'dump social security' into the lump sum of what our government holdings were.

So there was no actual surplus, they just moved funds around on paper in order to make it APPEAR that there was! Yep, this is why Social security is going backrupt so fast - they dumped it into the general fund so that they could spend more.

Kiss your SS retirement fund good by! Thanks Clinton! He also let the terrorists think we were weak. You think Sept 11th was their first attack!?! Nope! Remember the USS Cole? Remember the Embassy that was fire bombed? That all happened during Clinton's watch. And we NEVER retaliated! So the terrorists got bolder and bolder - until they killed 3,000 men, women and CHILDREN in one day! AND hit our military command center killing dozens of generals/admirals as well.

See guys, you've got to watch, to read, to research - or the politicians will pull the wool over your eyes! That's their art form. And if you don't stay TRULY informed - then you're merely a sheep being led to slaughter.

The internet is at your fingertips. Knowledge so easy to obtain from legitiment sources. Watch the videos of Obama's/Biden's various speeches. HEAR what he's REALLY saying - not just what you want to hear!

Dedicated idependant voter - who takes what ALL politicians say with a grain of salt! factcheck.org is a wonderful site!

That was also my last post on this. I hope I've encouraged people to research for themselves on the history. I apologize if I've insulted anyone with the published facts of history that can be found on legitiment sites and in published history texts.

I'm non-partison, I'm independant and proud of it. I just try to keep my eyes open to reality - and not get sucked in by the spin. From either major party.

Nekoman wrote:

Shadowman wrote:See, why do people think he's a socialist? He said "Spread the wealth around" which, to the best of my knowledge, means giving a helping hand to those who don't have the means to help themselves.

“Spreading the wealth around” is socialism. But it does not matter to me what you wish to call it, it’s still wrong. The people who loose here are those who worked hard for their money, whereas the fools who blew all of theirs away will gain from this.

You work hard and the government takes all your earnings away. That’s a day in modern America...

Acctully those that will loose the most will be those that are born into money.

Those that are wealthy.....not really those that work very hard.

His program is targeted at thoses with very deep pockets.He's going after the Upper class in an attempt to eliminate the lower class.

I'm not saying that its going to work but I do understand the logic behind it.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Nekoman wrote:

Shadowman wrote:See, why do people think he's a socialist? He said "Spread the wealth around" which, to the best of my knowledge, means giving a helping hand to those who don't have the means to help themselves.

“Spreading the wealth around” is socialism. But it does not matter to me what you wish to call it, it’s still wrong. The people who loose here are those who worked hard for their money, whereas the fools who blew all of theirs away will gain from this.

You work hard and the government takes all your earnings away. That’s a day in modern America...

Acctully those that will loose the most will be those that are born into money.

Those that are wealthy.....not really those that work very hard.

His program is targeted at thoses with very deep pockets.He's going after the Upper class in an attempt to eliminate the lower class.

I'm not saying that its going to work but I do understand the logic behind it.

The problem is that people twist the logic and see it as communism. Of course, Communism was trying to eliminate all class. This is just trying to help out the lower class by taxing the upper class. Taking from the rich and giving to the poor, the Robin Hood angle.

President? Last time I checked, Barack Hussein Obama was still a crappy, inexperienced senator from Illinois. He's not president until January. Save your "president" garbage until then.

I miss the days when people could have a civil talk about politics, instead of flinging about insults, hate mongering, and conspiracy theory crap.

Senor Hugo wrote:I miss the days when people could have a civil talk about politics, instead of flinging about insults, hate mongering, and conspiracy theory crap.

Please refrain from commenting on people who are unable to act like adults. We're working on dealing with this while leaving the topic open.

YeekJat wrote:President? Last time I checked, Barack Hussein Obama was still a crappy, inexperienced senator from Illinois. He's not president until January. Save your "president" garbage until then.

So, I take it you can't read, but somehow are still able to write...interesting.

Every post that attempts to be inflamitory is being reported and will be dealt with.

Thank you to those of you who seem to be able to read what the staff has commented on here and who are able to address politics and the careful way they are handled on this site as if you were in fact, adults.

Senor Hugo wrote:I miss the days when people could have a civil talk about politics, instead of flinging about insults, hate mongering, and conspiracy theory crap.

When would that have been?

"I, Ugga, of cave bear clan, say Roga, of deer trail clan, are closet sabertooth worshipper! Elect Ugga new chief of island, or deer trail clan eat your babies!"

Counterpunch wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:I miss the days when people could have a civil talk about politics, instead of flinging about insults, hate mongering, and conspiracy theory crap.

Please refrain from commenting on people who are unable to act like adults. We're working on dealing with this while leaving the topic open.

Gotcha.


As for Obama, I thought his plan of "spreading around the wealth" actually goes to the middle class, to help them out of the pickle, and not to give the lower class more breaks.

Wingspan wrote:Raw Text
Video

Thanks! Can't guarantee to be able to see them tonight, but soon. I saw highlights of both speeches. They're both great speakers.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:So what change do ya'll need up there anyway?

I could go on and on. I acutally don't think it's Harper's fault. The things I'd like changed around here have been around for as long as I can remember.

Counterpunch wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:I miss the days when people could have a civil talk about politics, instead of flinging about insults, hate mongering, and conspiracy theory crap.

Please refrain from commenting on people who are unable to act like adults. We're working on dealing with this while leaving the topic open.

YeekJat wrote:President? Last time I checked, Barack Hussein Obama was still a crappy, inexperienced senator from Illinois. He's not president until January. Save your "president" garbage until then.

So, I take it you can't read, but somehow are still able to write...interesting.

Every post that attempts to be inflamitory is being reported and will be dealt with.

Thank you to those of you who seem to be able to read what the staff has commented on here and who are able to address politics and the careful way they are handled on this site as if you were in fact, adults.

I'm trying to keep away from flaming and if I did, I apologize.

I might not be an Obama supporter, but I'm going to do the only thing I can do for now and that is to watch. Who knows? Maybe he'll surprise me.

I was looking at how all the states voted earlier and some independent got 15 votes. Was that you CP?

This guy won't be able to fix Bushes big mess. He's all talk and lacks the experience like Carter did. McCain also wouldn't be able to do it either. Cause he would do what Bush is doing now. Like Republicans all do. Hillary should have won. Hillary had a more effective better overall plan and she would of gotten it done like her husband did in the 90's. The Dnc and Obama have blood in their hands. The Dnc and Obama commited fraud in the caucases in the primaries earlier. If the Dnc wouldn't have gotten in the way. Hillary would of won the popular vote. Well Hillary won anyhow and she knows it. Just like everyone else. Yes Obama won this election. But in reality the Dnc and Obama are the real losers. Like W. and the Gop were the losers in the two previous elections. What both the Dnc and Obama did. Will cost them both like it is costing W. and the Gop now.

I see three warnings in the thread (two for the same person). And per my post I made earlier today.

Cyber Bishop wrote:http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9613

There are the board rules.
Everyone make sure and refresh yourselves on them as I don't care how much of a prick some of you think you can be to others..

I am allowing this thread to remain open (because political threads are a no no) for now.

Those rules are the ONLY warning everyone is going to get in dealing with this political talk.

I already had a reported post from this thread (one I was NOT happy with) and the next one I get the thread gets locked and the person that causes the problem gets a permaban.

So on that
YeekJat
and
2SciCrazed

will be permabanned.
I gave my warning and some seemed to not care.
I don't like politics because it always ends up a mess when you discuss it due to everyone being passionate about their beliefs.
I have political views, however I keep them to myself.