The Energon Pub

Battle between some big cogs in the cybertronian war

Optimus Prime, Ultra Magnus, Jetfire & Grimlock

VS

Megatron, Soundwave, Starscream & Sixshot

Opinions

JL

Starscream shots Jetfier once and he's down. Grim atacks Sixshot and rips his head of, wile Soundwave beats the **** out of Ultra Magnus. Starscream atacks Megatron, who shots Starscream, he fals to the ground and Grim eats his head. Once Soundwave is finished with Magnus he goes and helps Megatron who is having a hell of a fight with Optimus Prime, Grimlog atacks Soundwave and kills him. Megatron plays dirty and gets rid of Prime with a sectet Wepen. Then he shots Grim's head of. But Prime kolects his last resources and gives it one last shot and Megatron falls. All are dead and replaced with crap carecters.

I think the cons start at a disadvantage with Megs and Starscream and their whole rivalry. I think Sixshot is the swing vote though, and I think he changes the course of things. If Starscream goes after Megatron, Soundwave would probably take him down, leaving the cons at a numerical disadvantage. Jetfire is almost nebulous, and Starscream could take him out. Because of Sixshot, the cons win.

But I agree that they will be replaced by dumber characters.

icanfly wrote:Battle between some big cogs in the cybertronian war

Optimus Prime, Ultra Magnus, Jetfire & Grimlock

VS

Megatron, Soundwave, Starscream & Sixshot

Opinions

JL

ok purely for having sixshot in their team, and considering how
powerful he is in IDW's continuity, the con's will win this.

Starscream never went after Megs when the auotobts were around. Yeah, he took over (or tried to) when Megs fell, but that was always to an Auotobot weapon. So the rivalry doesn't really exist in this case. Also, because of the sheer skill and power of Sixshot in any continuity (Rebirth he effortlessly took down teh Aerialbots single handedly, Headmasters he was a force unto himself, able to hold his own against overwhelming odds, IDW is able to destroy planets) I would vote Sixshot. Err, I mean the cons.

Insurgent wrote:Starscream never went after Megs when the auotobts were around. Yeah, he took over (or tried to) when Megs fell, but that was always to an Auotobot weapon. So the rivalry doesn't really exist in this case. Also, because of the sheer skill and power of Sixshot in any continuity (Rebirth he effortlessly took down teh Aerialbots single handedly, Headmasters he was a force unto himself, able to hold his own against overwhelming odds, IDW is able to destroy planets) I would vote Sixshot. Err, I mean the cons.

I agree with both Megatron and Sixshot working together the balance is evidently tipped in the Decepticons favour, however I still think Megatron is still more powerfull than Sixshot remember in the IDW continuality so far has already stated that Megatron is one of the most powerfull transformers in existence and none of the Decepticons will even dare go against Megatron and even with Starscream powered up on ore13 he proved no match for Megatron and even under normal conditions Jazz wouldn't rate their chances against Megatron even having him outnumbered of course the same maybe said about Sixshot. Also remember in the origional Marvel comics Megatron easily defeated the Dinobots as well as the Predacons even in their combined form of Predaking he proved no match for Megatron.

I think i'm the only one choosing the bots here.

Prime can take Megatron as long as he isn't ore 13 powered, he has shown this time and time again. See The Movie, Prey (UK comics) etc

Powerful as they may be Soundwave and Starscream are not in the same league as Grimlock and Ultra Magnus.

The only weak link on the bots side is Jetfire who is taken out by Sixshot but by then the other 3 bots left standing can easily take him.

Winner: Bots

Trouble is, there's no one set continuity for this.

So, do you really think Magnus, Grimlock and Jetfire can take down someone who is capable of singlehandedly taking down entire planets?

Or in Headmasters, I believe Sixshot prooved he is much more than a match for Magnus. Grimlock isn't that much of a better fighter than Magnus. Sure, he's tougher. But he's alot dumber. One shot from SS takes out Jetfire/Skyfire (see his pilot ep).

Does Sixshot have his solid holograms? Because there's another 5 soldiers for the cons. Or his nifty invisible trick?

If it wasn't for Sixshot, I would vote the bots. But that one con is too much for 3 bots to handle. (Prime is busy with Megs, who are both pretty evenly matched.)

I take your point Insurgent but i'm sure that either Prime or Megatron could take Sixshot one on one. And further i would think that together Magnus and Grimlock could take either one of them.
By that rationale do you think Grimlock and Magnus (and possibly Jetfire) could take Sixshot after dealing with Starscream and Soundwave neither of which are any match for the two High level bots.
I still believe so.

Outburst wrote:I take your point Insurgent but i'm sure that either Prime or Megatron could take Sixshot one on one. And further i would think that together Magnus and Grimlock could take either one of them.
By that rationale do you think Grimlock and Magnus (and possibly Jetfire) could take Sixshot after dealing with Starscream and Soundwave neither of which are any match for the two High level bots.
I still believe so.

sixshot rips of his con emblem, kills everyone else and hooks up with the Reapers.

Like I say, it depends on the continuity.

American G1: no. Sixshot would put up a good fight, but ultimately, he would fall to Magnus and Grimlock.

Headmasters: Sixshot killed Magnus with ease, so that sort of proves he can take down the better bots. He also held his own against Metroplex.

IDW: Sixshot destroys planets for a living. I somehow doubt Magnus (who was smacked around badly by Scorpinok) and Grimlock (who was smacked around by Shockwave) could take him down, considering they were defeated by tf's alot less powerful than Sixshot.

I also think you are underestimating Starscream. He has proven himself an able soldier more than once.

Same with Soundwave. Especially if he has his cassettes.

Starscream would take down Jet/Skyfire with one shot to the chest, as has happened twice in the toon. Soundwave could keep Grimlock busy in time for Sixshot to finish off Magnus and take down Grimlock. I'm not saying SS and SW would last to the end of the fight, but they would certainly be able to cause enough destraction for Sixshot to sweep in and deliver finishing blows.

I conceed the points on Soundwave and his cassettes, if he has those it does change the fight a bit.

How about if Prime takled Sixshot?
Grimlock on Megatron ( Both similar strength wise, going on G1 comics and toon, i think Megs will win but could be drawn out)
Jetfire and Starscream (if anything an air fight would last a while seeing as they are both superlative fliers)
Magnus on Soundwave. (Magnus, without cassettes, easily)

I agree with your points on each continuity, i just hate uber powered cons for indestructable enemys sake.

Magnus is supposed to be just one step down from Prime and barring Headmasters he has certainly proven a tough customer.
And i still belive Optimus Prime to be superior to a non ore 13 powered Megatron, significantly enough that he might be the one delivering the finishing touches on the other fights.

And please dont think im being argumentative, im enjoying the discussion.

Outburst wrote:I conceed the points on Soundwave and his cassettes, if he has those it does change the fight a bit.

How about if Prime takled Sixshot?
Grimlock on Megatron ( Both similar strength wise, going on G1 comics and toon, i think Megs will win but could be drawn out)
Jetfire and Starscream (if anything an air fight would last a while seeing as they are both superlative fliers)
Magnus on Soundwave. (Magnus, without cassettes, easily)

I agree with your points on each continuity, i just hate uber powered cons for indestructable enemys sake.

Magnus is supposed to be just one step down from Prime and barring Headmasters he has certainly proven a tough customer.
And i still belive Optimus Prime to be superior to a non ore 13 powered Megatron, significantly enough that he might be the one delivering the finishing touches on the other fights.

And please dont think im being argumentative, im enjoying the discussion.

I wasn't. You are providing proper opinions, as opposed to blindly ignoring facts like that person did the other time (I wont mention who) and I too am enjoying the disscusion.

If they pair off like that, I would agree with you on Megs/Grimlock and Soundwave/Magnus.

Starscream/Jetfire would be a close fight in alt modes. It would depend on who was crazy enough to pull the insaner stunts, as Starscream has superior agility, but Jetfire has greater firepower. Screamer could do it if he was crafty enough, though Jetfire was sneaky in his pilot ep. That's a tough one to call. But if they stayed in robot modes, well, you know my view on that.

Prime/Sixshot would be an interesting one. Saying it was the Headmasters version (powerful soldier, but not uber powerful) I would say Prime could take it IF Sixshot didn't use his holograms. It would be really close, especially considering how Sixshot transforms so rapidly, Prime wouldn't be able to formulate a decent enough strategy to take him down before he got pounced on. A very close fight, but I would give it to Prime JUST.

However, if he did use his holograms, Prime would fall. Again, it would be a close fight and it would depend how good he is at picking out the real one (since his holograms dissapear when the real one gets hit), but I would give it to Sixshot.

The winner of Prime/Sixshot would determine who would win overall.

Insurgent wrote:Like I say, it depends on the continuity.




IDW: Sixshot destroys planets for a living. I somehow doubt Magnus (who was smacked around badly by Scorpinok) and Grimlock (who was smacked around by Shockwave) could take him down, considering they were defeated by tf's alot less powerful than Sixshot.




.

What makes you think that Scorponok or Shockwave are less powerfull than Sixshot, both Shockwave and Scorponok are suppose to be almost equal to Megatron in terms of raw power and strength,and since most of us agree that Megatron is more powerfull than Sixshot and Sixshot is just one step below Megatron that would put Sixshot in the same level of Shockwave and Scorponok. Grimlock and Ultra Magnus working together would be more than enough to take Sixshot down. And in the IDW universe it remains to be seen on which one between Megatron and Optimus Prime actually holds an advantage over the other. Traditionally they were designed to be near perfect equals.

Galaxion wrote:

Insurgent wrote:Like I say, it depends on the continuity.




IDW: Sixshot destroys planets for a living. I somehow doubt Magnus (who was smacked around badly by Scorpinok) and Grimlock (who was smacked around by Shockwave) could take him down, considering they were defeated by tf's alot less powerful than Sixshot.




.

What makes you think that Scorponok or Shockwave are less powerfull than Sixshot, both Shockwave and Scorponok are suppose to be almost equal to Megatron in terms of raw power and strength,and since most of us agree that Megatron is more powerfull than Sixshot and Sixshot is just one step below Megatron that would put Sixshot in the same level of Shockwave and Scorponok. Grimlock and Ultra Magnus working together would be more than enough to take Sixshot down. And in the IDW universe it remains to be seen on which one between Megatron and Optimus Prime actually holds an advantage over the other. Traditionally they were designed to be near perfect strangers.

Yes, originally Shockwave and Scorpinok are almost equal in terms of firepower and strength to Megs. But Sixshot never appeared in Marvel to my knowledge. So a comparison can't really be made on those. As for IDW, it remains to be seen how the power is distributed between those. I get the feeling Sixshot may even be more powerful than Megs in it, yet isn't the one in charge because he simply doesn't want to be. But that's just my opinion. Personally, unless it's the Rebirth Sixshot, I doubt Magnus and Grimlock, even working together, can take down Sixshot. Remeber, it's not just about the size of your gun, its how well you can use it and Sixshot knows how to fight. I mean, Sixshot took on Metroplex singlehanded and was able to come out on top.

And your forgetting about Starscream and Soundwave. They would be keeping Magnus and Grimlock busy.

Basically, we are never gonna be able to decide this unless a single continuity is stated for the combatants to be from.

They jump continuities to the RiD verse and Prime forces Magnus to combine with him and they become Omega Prime and decimate everyone, end of story

Insurgent wrote:

Galaxion wrote:

Insurgent wrote:Like I say, it depends on the continuity.




IDW: Sixshot destroys planets for a living. I somehow doubt Magnus (who was smacked around badly by Scorpinok) and Grimlock (who was smacked around by Shockwave) could take him down, considering they were defeated by tf's alot less powerful than Sixshot.




.

What makes you think that Scorponok or Shockwave are less powerfull than Sixshot, both Shockwave and Scorponok are suppose to be almost equal to Megatron in terms of raw power and strength,and since most of us agree that Megatron is more powerfull than Sixshot and Sixshot is just one step below Megatron that would put Sixshot in the same level of Shockwave and Scorponok. Grimlock and Ultra Magnus working together would be more than enough to take Sixshot down. And in the IDW universe it remains to be seen on which one between Megatron and Optimus Prime actually holds an advantage over the other. Traditionally they were designed to be near perfect strangers.

Yes, originally Shockwave and Scorpinok are almost equal in terms of firepower and strength to Megs. But Sixshot never appeared in Marvel to my knowledge. So a comparison can't really be made on those. As for IDW, it remains to be seen how the power is distributed between those. I get the feeling Sixshot may even be more powerful than Megs in it, yet isn't the one in charge because he simply doesn't want to be. But that's just my opinion. Personally, unless it's the Rebirth Sixshot, I doubt Magnus and Grimlock, even working together, can take down Sixshot. Remeber, it's not just about the size of your gun, its how well you can use it and Sixshot knows how to fight. I mean, Sixshot took on Metroplex singlehanded and was able to come out on top.

And your forgetting about Starscream and Soundwave. They would be keeping Magnus and Grimlock busy.

Basically, we are never gonna be able to decide this unless a single continuity is stated for the combatants to be from.

By going with the IDW continuity it is gonna be hard to guage the power of Sixshot unless he meets one of our protagonists.

I doubt Sixshot is more powerful than Megatron purely because Megatron has a reputation and is set up in every continuity as "the big bad" to make Sixshot more powerful would reduce the threat that Megatron is supposed to pose. If that is true then Prime would have less touble with Sixshot than you think. And seeing as Grimlock is supposed to be almost as powerful as Prime (G1 comic) combined with Magnus these two could take almost any transformer around. And remember Grimlock is as cold blooded as Sixshot, if he were a decepticon i don't doubt he would be as feared as Sixshot.

Also Insugent you mentioned Prime would need a strategy to take down Sixshot. I dont think this is neccesarily the case. Prime is one of the most poweful Transformers ever created regardless of whether he has a plan or not. He could take Sixshot with brute force. He is also vastly more intelligent and, apart from firepower and speed, (i would argue) he outclasses Sixshot in every respect.

And lest i forget Starscream and Soundwave, Jetfire would keep Starscream busy for a while leaving either Grimlock or Magnus to quickly take out Soundwave and then double team Megatron.

Outburst wrote:

Insurgent wrote:

Galaxion wrote:

Insurgent wrote:Like I say, it depends on the continuity.




IDW: Sixshot destroys planets for a living. I somehow doubt Magnus (who was smacked around badly by Scorpinok) and Grimlock (who was smacked around by Shockwave) could take him down, considering they were defeated by tf's alot less powerful than Sixshot.




.

What makes you think that Scorponok or Shockwave are less powerfull than Sixshot, both Shockwave and Scorponok are suppose to be almost equal to Megatron in terms of raw power and strength,and since most of us agree that Megatron is more powerfull than Sixshot and Sixshot is just one step below Megatron that would put Sixshot in the same level of Shockwave and Scorponok. Grimlock and Ultra Magnus working together would be more than enough to take Sixshot down. And in the IDW universe it remains to be seen on which one between Megatron and Optimus Prime actually holds an advantage over the other. Traditionally they were designed to be near perfect strangers.

Yes, originally Shockwave and Scorpinok are almost equal in terms of firepower and strength to Megs. But Sixshot never appeared in Marvel to my knowledge. So a comparison can't really be made on those. As for IDW, it remains to be seen how the power is distributed between those. I get the feeling Sixshot may even be more powerful than Megs in it, yet isn't the one in charge because he simply doesn't want to be. But that's just my opinion. Personally, unless it's the Rebirth Sixshot, I doubt Magnus and Grimlock, even working together, can take down Sixshot. Remeber, it's not just about the size of your gun, its how well you can use it and Sixshot knows how to fight. I mean, Sixshot took on Metroplex singlehanded and was able to come out on top.

And your forgetting about Starscream and Soundwave. They would be keeping Magnus and Grimlock busy.

Basically, we are never gonna be able to decide this unless a single continuity is stated for the combatants to be from.

By going with the IDW continuity it is gonna be hard to guage the power of Sixshot unless he meets one of our protagonists.

I doubt Sixshot is more powerful than Megatron purely because Megatron has a reputation and is set up in every continuity as "the big bad" to make Sixshot more powerful would reduce the threat that Megatron is supposed to pose. If that is true then Prime would have less touble with Sixshot than you think. And seeing as Grimlock is supposed to be almost as powerful as Prime (G1 comic) combined with Magnus these two could take almost any transformer around. And remember Grimlock is as cold blooded as Sixshot, if he were a decepticon i don't doubt he would be as feared as Sixshot.

Also Insugent you mentioned Prime would need a strategy to take down Sixshot. I dont think this is neccesarily the case. Prime is one of the most poweful Transformers ever created regardless of whether he has a plan or not. He could take Sixshot with brute force. He is also vastly more intelligent and, apart from firepower and speed, (i would argue) he outclasses Sixshot in every respect.

And lest i forget Starscream and Soundwave, Jetfire would keep Starscream busy for a while leaving either Grimlock or Magnus to quickly take out Soundwave and then double team Megatron.

All excellent points. When I refered to Prime needing a plan against Sixshot, I was referring purely to The Headmasters version, who has a habit of rapidly transforming during attacks. As powerful as Prime is, he would still have his hands full with an enemy that transforms as rapidly as that, with each form as different as that.
And yes, Prime is more intellegant than Sixshot. But in terms of fighting intellegance (ie tactics etc.), I would say they are pretty much even. Like I said earlier, it all depends if Sixshot is using his solid holograms, which would turn the tide in this. Unfortunatly, I cant find the clip where he takes on Metroplex, or the one where he takes on all four Headmasters and wipes the floor with them.

And I concede to your point about Soundwave getting taken out quick, enabling a tag team on Megs.

Wow, this has really caused some discussion. One decepticon I was gonna put in also was Shockwave, but couldn't think of a worthy opponent - Prowl perhaps?

JL

Comic Shockwave would make this a whole other ball game.

Not toon Shockwave though. Shame.

Insurgent wrote:Comic Shockwave would make this a whole other ball game.

Not toon Shockwave though. Shame.

Agreed, Comic Shockwave is a worthy opponent for anyone, Cartoon Shockwave couldn't hit a barn if he was inside it.

Replace Sixshot with Shockwave and Jetfire with Prowl and this fight becomes a different matter.

Outburst wrote:

Insurgent wrote:Comic Shockwave would make this a whole other ball game.

Not toon Shockwave though. Shame.

Agreed, Comic Shockwave is a worthy opponent for anyone, Cartoon Shockwave couldn't hit a barn if he was inside it.

Replace Sixshot with Shockwave and Jetfire with Prowl and this fight becomes a different matter.

If he transformed, he could level it (the one with teh female autobots showed he had immense firepower and could clear a battlefield in one go). But then he would just float there for 5 years while he got shot over a cliff.

Hey Galaxion, you have one thing wrong though. Shockwave vent against Megatron Twice. Once he won, and was leading Decepticons, then he lost to Megatron. It must have been odd for Megatron To Follow Orders for once, well before he got reformatted into Galvatron.Then he briefly had to follow orders from Unicron.And then he had to follow orders from the Human, when he was trapped in his Gun mode.

Outburst wrote:

Insurgent wrote:Comic Shockwave would make this a whole other ball game.

Not toon Shockwave though. Shame.

Agreed, Comic Shockwave is a worthy opponent for anyone, Cartoon Shockwave couldn't hit a barn if he was inside it.

Replace Sixshot with Shockwave and Jetfire with Prowl and this fight becomes a different matter.

Jetfire to Prowl? Isn't that a too big downgrade?

I think that Starscream would be defeated by Jetfire, Grimlock would be beaten (not easily) by Sixshot, Megatron shoots Magnus to gain numerical advantage, then teams up with Soundwave to defeat Optimus, while Sixshot battles with Jetfire, and when finally Prime has fallen, (probably Soundwave falls in the battle, too) Megatron and Sixshot shoots down Jetfire.

End:
Casualties:
autobots: -all-
decepticons: Starscream, Soundwave

Grimlock86 wrote:

Outburst wrote:

Insurgent wrote:Comic Shockwave would make this a whole other ball game.

Not toon Shockwave though. Shame.

Agreed, Comic Shockwave is a worthy opponent for anyone, Cartoon Shockwave couldn't hit a barn if he was inside it.

Replace Sixshot with Shockwave and Jetfire with Prowl and this fight becomes a different matter.

Jetfire to Prowl? Isn't that a too big downgrade?

I think that Starscream would be defeated by Jetfire, Grimlock would be beaten (not easily) by Sixshot, Megatron shoots Magnus to gain numerical advantage, then teams up with Soundwave to defeat Optimus, while Sixshot battles with Jetfire, and when finally Prime has fallen, (probably Soundwave falls in the battle, too) Megatron and Sixshot shoots down Jetfire.

End:
Casualties:
autobots: -all-
decepticons: Starscream, Soundwave

So Megatron can just shoot Magnus? If that is your match up then the time it takes for Megatron to take out Magnus Prime would have wasted Soundwave and Megatron would likely be facing Magnus and, at worst, a lightly damaged Prime. Megs goes down.