The Energon Pub

Debate!!!! Do NON-G-1 TF toys released 15 years or less deserve updated homage new molds? YES OR NO?

Personally I say "YES TIMES INFINITY".

Why?

for a few reasons below:

(1) their were only so many core G-1 TF persona characters that the fans or casual viewers cared about. and want new updated homage toys of.

(2) just because some TF toys released 15 years ago or less received decent poseabilty or new age high sculpts/designs. doesn't mean some of these toys were not awful & don't need improvement made on them.
Examples: (1) Generation 2 1993 huge green tank megatron deserves either a Masterpiece toy or a bigger sized toy with more poseabilty & more higher sculpt/designs/details. (2)TM2 Megatron was a awful toy,it was a royal mess of rubbery parts,too much kibble visible in both modes,horrible engineering. way too mis-proportioned. (3) some of the armada toys deserve to be re-done as more poseable toys. (4) Beastmachines had wrong scale toys to oppossed to how they appeared on the cartoon in size scale. some of the sculpts & colors were awful & didn't match the cartoon versions. (5) energon wing saber was a brick-former,energon rodimus should have been a voyager sized toy & not a deluxe toy. (6) energon megatron/galvatron needed more poseable joints.

(3) CITING THE ARGUMENT THAT HASBRO TRIED doing two (Cheetor & dinobot) updated beastwars toys for classics 2.0 & failed. thus are un-capable of doing other better ones. MAKES ZERO SENSE & ILLOGICAL.

Actually they attempted 3 toys. Cheetor and Dinobot from Beastwars and Hot Shot from Armada.



With that said I'd much rather have re-relases of older toys, in the vein of Encore but of slightly less vintage lines than have new molds for them.

G2 Megatron also got a homage before in the Classics line. Though it was a Deluxe and the arm gimmick was really poorly engineered.

By the way, Energon Wing Saber is awesome. He sacrifices poseability because of the combination with Prime. But I totally love the combinations. I can look past the brickness. I wouldn't want a super poseable Energon Wing Saber that can't combine with Prime.

All in all, I think homages to old figures will always happen. Whether you like them or not is a different question.

Overcracker wrote:Actually they attempted 3 toys. Cheetor and Dinobot from Beastwars and Hot Shot from Armada.



With that said I'd much rather have re-relases of older toys, in the vein of Encore but of slightly less vintage lines than have new molds for them.

G2 Megatron also got a homage before in the Classics line. Though it was a Deluxe and the arm gimmick was really poorly engineered.

By the way, Energon Wing Saber is awesome. He sacrifices poseability because of the combination with Prime. But I totally love the combinations. I can look past the brickness. I wouldn't want a super poseable Energon Wing Saber that can't combine with Prime.

All in all, I think homages to old figures will always happen. Whether you like them or not is a different question.

I was citing the two failed beastwars toys hasbro/takara created for the generations 2.0 toy line.

Generations 2.0 hothot was not a beastwars toy thus doesn't count in the failed two beastwars classics 2.0 toy examples.

Personally I liked classics 2.0 deluxe hotshot. the toy delivere everything it was promised to. it had more poseabilty,a higher buyer age sculpt/design. it got rid of some of the kiddie toddler gimmicks that ruined the armada deluxe hotshot toy.

that tank/bot G-2 Megatron classics 1.0 deluxe toy was awful & abomination. it shouldn't count as anything other then getting throw into the thrash.

1993 big huge Green tank/bot megatron deserves a Masterpiece TF toy or a bigger sized toy beyond the deluxe size scale/price point.

Personally I don't think Beast Wars can or should be touched again. The two remakes they did were no where near their originals which by now are over 15 years old.

However I would certainly encourage them to do some more from the Armada Line and some of the Beast Machines. I'd love a new Armada Demolishor and Tankor and

I want a new Armada Megatron with articulation and even more detail.

I got no problem with that...lol.

I wouldn't buy any Classics versions of anything other than G1. I wasn't into Beast Wars when it was out the first time. As far as the A/E/C lines go, I thought they were bad remakes of G1. I will spend my money on the original thing.

if i remember correctly Hasbro intends to do that with Generations,no?

by what criteria are you saying the beast wars re-dos failed? they were produced and sold, right? sounds like a success to me, unless you factor in what little sway collectors opinions play into the matter...

id be happy with deluxe homages to less than 15 yr old figures, even as an almost exclusively Classics collector i make exceptions for just plain cool figures.

Personally I enjoy where the 'classics' line has been going recently giving us homages and characters from the G1 era that we have either not seen in a toy form before or haven't seen in an American line. That being said, I really only collect G1/G1 homages, unless the toy is spectacular.

So to me, updating G1 makes sense, it was/is the most iconic version of the Transformers brand, and is responsible for the craze. The G1 era needed the updates, the toys were either bricks or looked nothing like the characters on the show did. The Beast Wars toys and beyond (overall) stand up pretty well to today's standards, they have poseability and looked like the characters on the show.

But in direct response to your questions deathy, I disagree with a some of your points:

1) only so many core characters people care about? Classics has been around for years and we have not even hit the tip of the iceberg. Off the top of my head in a scout/deluxe/voyager scale, where is Shockwave, Trailbreaker, the insecticons, the remaining Dinobots, Gears, Reflector, or Blitzwing just to name the 1984 cast members. Yes I know that some of these have third party options, which I own, but it be nice if HasTak would do them so I wouldn't have to resort to that.

2) I see no reason for a G2 megatron update, especially a masterpiece one, Megatron just isn't a tank to me, others can and will disagree, G2 Megatron just isn't iconic enough for me to justify owning. Same with TM2 Megatron, I enjoyed the show, but I think we have enough Optimus Prime's and Megatron's out. And A/C/E toys, like I said before for the most part they were/are fine. I'd rather them not spend time making a new Energon Wing Saber whom a majority of the people looking at it will go "who?" when they can spend the time making something that will not only appeal to an adult collector, but a kid will pick it up because it's fun.

My favorite thing about the 'classics' line is getting to introduce a whole new generation to what I grew up with. I donate a lot of my extra classics I get when I buy lots and I have thrown in copies of the DVDs and the kids love them! Nothing companies to seeing the look on a kids face when they see Devastator combine or hearing them yell at a screen for the Autobots to win.

Sure, why not? I can always not buy them.

Your argument is sorta wonky, though. You state in the title of the topic that you want non-G1 toys and afterwards you only mention two specific BW toys as bad examples. Then you reply that Hotshot is a good toy... You ignore good toys such as Generations Lugnut, Laser Prime (G2!) and tank Megatron (twice, even). Let's also mention club exclusives G2 Ramjet, Sideburn and Cheetor. Hasbro is already doing this. There is no debate.

RhA wrote:Sure, why not? I can always not buy them.

Your argument is sorta wonky, though. You state in the title of the topic that you want non-G1 toys and afterwards you only mention two specific BW toys as bad examples. Then you reply that Hotshot is a good toy... You ignore good toys such as Generations Lugnut, Laser Prime (G2!) and tank Megatron (twice, even). Let's also mention club exclusives G2 Ramjet, Sideburn and Cheetor. Hasbro is already doing this. There is no debate.

This thread doesn't exist in the past tense of what's come already.

The main reason I created this thread was to inquire if Hasbro created new molds generations toys for 2012 & beyond. would anyone want to see more updated molds from 15 years ago or less.

o.k, since you seem to require a more direct answer... Yes I would buy them.

Judging by the fact that Hasbro is already doing this, and many have bought these toys already I'd say the answer for many people here would also be Yes.

I think that has been pretty clearly established by the replies. We've bought them we like some of them so yes we would probably buy more of them should they be produced.

deathy wrote:

RhA wrote:Sure, why not? I can always not buy them.

Your argument is sorta wonky, though. You state in the title of the topic that you want non-G1 toys and afterwards you only mention two specific BW toys as bad examples. Then you reply that Hotshot is a good toy... You ignore good toys such as Generations Lugnut, Laser Prime (G2!) and tank Megatron (twice, even). Let's also mention club exclusives G2 Ramjet, Sideburn and Cheetor. Hasbro is already doing this. There is no debate.

This thread doesn't exist in the past tense of what's come already.

The main reason I created this thread was to inquire if Hasbro created new molds generations toys for 2012 & beyond. would anyone want to see more updated molds from 15 years ago or less.

Sorry. I don't get the point. Would we buy in to something that is already happening? That is the question? You can easily answer that for yourself, just make a list of everyone who has bought the mentioned toys in the Generations-haulthread. These are the people that have, in the past, bought these toys. I also understand that you want some sort of certainty about my desire to do so in the future for whatever reason. The answer is; I do not know. Nor can I tell you. I will only ever know this if I have bought a toy like that at a time in the future at which I will do so. Not any time sooner. I can only verify this after the fact, so the fact, at that point will be in the past and therefore can not be relevant to your question. The paradox of this makes debate impossible. You can only ask for intent. Intent is something that defies quantity and is therefore a matter of belief; do you believe that I intend to buy such a toy? You decide that, not me. I can only tell you that I intend something.

Your question is invalid.

deathy wrote:This thread doesn't exist in the past tense of what's come already.

Are you Doctor Who?


Anyway, I should probably add my own thoughts to this debate!!!!

I see no reason not to include other lines characters and designs into the Generations line, or even other media. Animated and Prime have both used primarily characters who originated in G1, but maybe taking inspiration from other incarnations of those characters. They've also not been shy about adding in some of the more popular characters from other continuities. The toylines are the same.

There are some post-G1 characters showing up in the Classics-styled lines. Lugnut is a good example of one done well. I wouldn't mind Beast Wars remakes, or even some RiD inspired stuff. Mini-cons still keep coming back around, so why not more Armada-era characters? Truck Rodimus is a cool idea, and HotRod seems popular at the moment. Of course, just because there's plenty of reason to include other incarnations of the franchise, doesn't mean there's reason to exclude G1, and I'm very happy that we've had some post-85 G1 characters showing up lately. We've a few non-Pretenders, and a couple of the Human Alliance Basics seem very Action Master inspired.

Variety is the spice of life.

No, the toy technology of the figures released in their era is what makes the toys unique. Sure, I could think of a handful of Armada characters that would be wicked if they remade them, but that's for me, not everyone else.

And tip, if your title isn't what you want this topic to be about, then don't put it in the title.

craggy wrote:

deathy wrote:This thread doesn't exist in the past tense of what's come already.

Are you Doctor Who?


Anyway, I should probably add my own thoughts to this debate!!!!

I see no reason not to include other lines characters and designs into the Generations line, or even other media. Animated and Prime have both used primarily characters who originated in G1, but maybe taking inspiration from other incarnations of those characters. They've also not been shy about adding in some of the more popular characters from other continuities. The toylines are the same.

There are some post-G1 characters showing up in the Classics-styled lines. Lugnut is a good example of one done well. I wouldn't mind Beast Wars remakes, or even some RiD inspired stuff. Mini-cons still keep coming back around, so why not more Armada-era characters? Truck Rodimus is a cool idea, and HotRod seems popular at the moment. Of course, just because there's plenty of reason to include other incarnations of the franchise, doesn't mean there's reason to exclude G1, and I'm very happy that we've had some post-85 G1 characters showing up lately. We've a few non-Pretenders, and a couple of the Human Alliance Basics seem very Action Master inspired.

Variety is the spice of life.

I never said Exclude the G-1 updated homage new molds for the generations 2012 & beyond new molds. Ofcause add in G-1 character toys as their the main attraction of the line. I also want more 1996 thru 2011 TF toys to get better updated homage new molds in the generations 2012 & beyond toy line.

I'd like all the deluxe cars rereleased as basics so the fit in with my Diaclones, G2 Laser Rods and Stormtroopers, RM Mirage, etc.

I'd settle for a head remold and repaint of Generations Windcharger as Armada Sideswipe.

Would love Scout versions of Energon Prowl, Botcon Nightbeat, Movie Getaway and Classics or Cybertron Blurr and Drift.

A Supreme size Tidal Wave would be great with a repaint and head remold as Broadside down the line.

Armada Cyclonus needs an update with an optional Buzzsaw repaint.

Windsweeper wrote:I'd like all the deluxe cars rereleased as basics so the fit in with my Diaclones, G2 Laser Rods and Stormtroopers, RM Mirage, etc.

I'd settle for a head remold and repaint of Generations Windcharger as Armada Sideswipe.

You always have such interesting collecting habits, I mean nothing against them but I'm always surprised that with the reinvention of scales, articulation etc that you want stuff that is in scale with 30 year old figures.

It just baffles me, but if it makes you happy, go for it.

Windsweeper wrote:A Supreme size Tidal Wave would be great with a repaint and head remold as Broadside down the line.

I'd also love to see a updated homage mold of Armada Tidalwave. But I want it to be Leader sized & not supreme sized.

I really wanted that ROTF Leader sized tidalwave toy. I loved the early teaser CGI Designs of ROTF Tidalwave. sadly Devestator Replaced tidalwave in the ROTF Movie & ROTF toy line.

because supreme sized TF toys have a bad track record of being made with a beyond simplistic transformations,super thick tonka plastic,in weird toddler friendly colors & in toddler friendly sculpt/design. Out of the all the supreme sized TF toys only unicron & Primus are the exception of being made for older teenage buyers & fans.

yes and no.
Many do not need to be redesigned. There's some I'd like to see redone though; Rhinox, Rattrap. Or get their chance in the first place, like the animated constructicons.

If these things happen great. My feelings is such a low number though. That's about my list really. There's maybe one or two more I'd like to see. I think they could trickle in similar to how dinobot and cheetor did.

I would settle for them re-releasing improved versions of previous figures which were originally released with quality control issues. For instance, TM Megatron re-released with plastic that doesnt disintegrate into dust, or how about Armada Scavenger with rubber treads that don't split in half after a few years. And while they were at it, why not re-release all the defective chrome plated figures with chrome that doesnt crack and peel while just sitting there on the shelf? That's the kind of updating I'd like to see!

Depends on the character in question. For most I really see no point, as things released since the Beast era were pretty decent in terms of articulation and looks.

Beast Wars: Some excellent figures, though most were at the cost of being granted somewhat poor beast modes... but that's a problem that I don't think toy engineering can solve.

Beast Machines: Didn't care for that series in any fashion, so no way.

RiD: Good line all round. Nothing needs updating... well except Ruination, but that would also fall into the realm of G1 updates anyway.

Armada: ...okay, yeah. I can see the point of updating this series... except for Sideswipe, he's a waste of space no matter how good a toy he gets.

Energon: Yes and no. Yes because the Bots mostly sucked, No because the Cons were fine.

Cybertron: No, full stop.

Animated: Only for Bulkhead... which Prime seems to be doing anyway.

I'm not saying I'm against having updates of characters from older lines from the past '15 years' but G1 Classics take president for me, and an update of a Beast Era/Unicron Trilogy character would negate a potential G1 character update in... whatever the next classics line will be.

Also I don't see what was wrong with the Universe Beast Wars molds.

In principle I'd like to see the Gen 1 toys finished, and by finished I mean Generations versions of essentials like Trailbreaker (not a frakking Kup redo!!!) Blitzwing and Shockwave done as the priority but as long as we get those coming down the pipe I've not got any problem with redos that improve the look, quality and most importantly the articulation on any character. We live in a world where RTS Jazz exists as the gold standard - TF's should never be less good than that again and there are tons of decent characters who got crappy toys even in the modern era.

No...

See the post-G1 toys like Armada/ RID etc. were redesigns of G1... So if you make an update to an updated character... Updateception?

But as in toy wise like Universe hotshot/cheetor/dinobot ... I'm neutral with that. Might only want to revisit the more "iconic" characters of the line and definitely not armarda hotshot or Sideswipe.

Reflecting on the extreme transformation that can be seen on the toys in movieverse (or 3rd party's ability on doing awesome articulation?), I don't see why not...

Just release a less-clunky, less-kibbly designed OP and Megatron from the Unicron trilogy with even more articulation, and Hasbro/Takara answers in few month's time. Oh and throw in the redesigned mini-cons from the trilogy with the articulation similar to PCC targetmasters.

You can never go wrong with more mini-cons